Healing the child in the wheelchair
For the past while, I have been getting really stirred up - getting angry (in a righteous way) and getting more and more desparate and hungry, so much so I have felt like Jacob when he wrestled with God. ‘God, I will not let you go until you bless me!’ Forced to press in, forced to wrestle, forced to stuggle and press in and press in til I get what has been promised and I know is there.
What’s it all about? About healing. And why I don’t see it enough in the church and instead just see a load of quacks and charlatans, people denying they are sick in the word-faith movement (but they don’t get any better) or a load of disappointed Christians in other denominations.
I was miraculously healed a few years ago after a car crash so can testify that God really does heal today but that is not enough for me. I am very grateful for the healing of course, but I am desparate for more, to see this sort of healing and miracle happen regularly and not once in a blue moon. I am even more desparate after my own miracle than I was before it - why can’t it always be that easy? God in his mercy touched me but why does he not always show such mercy?
I read the stories in the gospels of Jesus healing all who came to him and it is a differant planet compared to my current Christian experience and those of everyone around me. In my 21 years of Born-again Christian life, visiting numerous churches (Pentecostal, Charismatic, Spirit-filled and other denominations such as baptist), numerous conferences and missions organisations, if I tried hard to think, I can count on the fingers of one hand people I know or have met who have been truly healed. I have heard lots of positive confessions and false testimonies but only one or two genuine healings.
I went to a Healing Conference run by the Vineyard about 12 years ago. (I would now steer clear of Vineyard because of dodgy doctrines but that’s another story). John Wimber (who has since died of cancer), the then-leader of the Vineyard movement had to constantly use a spray on his throat because of his cancer - this seemed rather contradictory to say the least. Nobody got healed over those three days but there was a lot of talk about the ‘how tos’ of healing along with manifesting and jerking galore and The Holy Spirit was quite happy (it seemed) to throw someone across the room and make others roar like lions or walk like penguins or whatever but He did not see fit to heal anybody.
The scriptures and my experience and the experience of my peers do not testify, they do not agree - why? - I MUST have what is in the scriptures as that is more real and more true than my own experience. Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever - he healed all who came to him.
I know that Jesus died for us and bore our diseases and sicknesses as well as our sins for us on the cross. Otherwise Isaiah 53 and Matthew 8:16-17 just would not make sense among many other scriptures.
Isaiah 53:4-5 “Surely He has borne our griefs (sicknesses) and our sorrows (pains); Yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities, the chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed.”
Matthew 8:16-17 “When evening had come, they brought Him many who were demon-possessed. And He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were sick, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying: “He Himself took our infirmities and bore our sicknesses.”
So why don’t we see it - the real thing - in our times - much it at all?
There can be lots of issues why healing does not break through in our time, but I think one of the key issues is faith. But linked with that is active expectation. People can think they have the ‘faith’ but do not have the active expectation that goes with it. God showed me this when I asked him about a sick child I know of.
I think the hardest thing for most people to deal with is a sick child. Somehow a child locked into a serious illness is far harder to look at, and far harder to accept than an adult. There is a young girl of about 7 years old that is in a wheelchair at a local Pentecostal church I know. She is a beautiful child and her family love God, but looking at her touches that anger again, it touches that frustration that cries out God why?!!!!!!!!!! why??? I am not angry with God (although I have been in the past but God dealt with that, I misunderstood him big time - I am angry now at the sickness/the circumstances, angry why it remains). This church she goes to believe in healing and yet one of their most vulnerable members suffers as do others including their pastor. It really really, bothered me and I decided to ask God specifically about this child.
‘God, why is this child still in a wheelchair?’God showed me a vision of milk bottles – an empty milk bottle on a doorstep being filled miraculously with milk gushing from above out of nowhere.What does this mean, God?
This does not just happen, this is not the way it works. You put a milk bottle out expecting it to be filled/replaced by the milkman – you put a note in it with your needs/demands - how many pints of milk you want to be delivered (ie you pray expectantly) – fully knowing in faith it will be filled/replaced.
There is an issue of lack of expectation – people are not praying expectantly, they are waiting for a miracle to happen ‘when it happens’, (the milk to supernaturally fall down from heaven into the milk bottle) rather than praying in faith AND EXPECTATION now and using the authority now to ‘make it happen’. They have not put the ‘note in the bottle’ expecting the milkman to be faithful to honour his promises.
Should I tell the child’s mother this?
No - this is (mainly) explaining to you why it is. She will not grasp it or is not ready for it. It is more an issue for the leadership of the Church rather than the child’s mother anyway.Then I saw a vision of a policeman walking across the front of the Church taking his helmet off
There is to do with the issue of spiritual authority and not using it. The word exusia came to me - ‘Exusia’ is a Greek word which means EXERCISING AUTHORITY. “Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you.” [Luke 10:19]The Greek word translated as ‘authority,’ is ‘exousia,’ and its basic meaning is to have the right to rule or govern as one whose will and commands must be submitted to and obeyed. A traffic officer has very little power to stop the transport, but he has ‘exusia’ authority. When he holds up his hand the driver stops, because behind the officer’s authority is the whole weight of the Police Department, and if necessary, the resources of the State Government. But with that authority is the expectation element too. There are scriptures that back this up-This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him. (I John 5:14-15)
But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all he does….(James 1:6- 
The authority of Christ endorses his great commission which includes healing the sick.
So in summary, God does want this child to be well, to be healthy BUT the church have not come to Him in faith and exercised their authority. How many more childs in wheelchairs does the church have that are not whole because people have misunderstood faith and not prayed expectantly?
I am still praying and I still want to see, so pray with me that we will see healing break through. More than anything I pray that God will give me the gift of faith that includes the expectation He wants as without faith nobody can please God.
I want to know if you know of any real christians with the gifts of healings and miracles? I have been searching the internet and thought I found someone but I was wrong.
hi
I said ” hi”. I am a real Christian with the gifts of healing and miracles.
Hello Joe
I was wondering if anyone in the body of Christ operates in these gifts.
I guess Miriam did not see my post here. You say that you do?
Can you tell me some about it? Like what your statement of faith is and what experiences you have?
Sandy: sorry I forgot to answer your post before.
I know Christians who have either ministered healing or been healed, including one who seems to walk in this healing gift quite regularly, however I could not say this is her ministry - her ministry is prayer and intercession but she has simple childlike faith and God acknowledges this when she prays for the sick. She is an ‘unknown’, but a dear friend of mine and I love her simple faith, it is catching: many people in the church laugh at her though because of this, it is not ‘intelligent’ enough and too simple for them. I know whose prayers though God listens to, the pharisees!
I was miraculously healed several years ago after a car crash, but it was just me alone with God. I would encourage you that if you are sick and need healing, and looking for a minister, that you do not always need a man or woman to pray for you. (It is a good idea though as God does say that the church should minister healing to one another: however sometimes that is just not possible through no fault of your own).
The people I see in the forefront of the healing ‘ministry’ I think are quacks or false, that has been my experience anyway. I do not say ALL, but I could not honestly point out one name you and I would have both heard of, and be able to say with conviction of heart that he/she is genuine. No fruit from it, same old people going to their crusades, or giving false testimony time and again.I have been to see and heard some big names too over the years.
Thank you Miriam. It’s not a problem that you forgot to post here I am sure you are busy. I would like to ask if you would just pass along my name and or email to your friend. I really need prayer I am very ill. And my 2 boys need it as well.
I will spend more time seeking the lord for my healing and thank you for mentioning that.
Sandy: Let me encourage you to seek God yourself on this and press in. If He can heal me without other people’s intervention, he can heal you too. I will pass on your name and ask my friend to pray for you too. Do you attend a church currently? I know you said you did once.
Actually while I write this, I feel that there are some seeds of bitterness in your life. It is like you feel life has treated you bad, you see yourself as the person who always draws a short straw, and I still keep seeing the mourning over you. It is like you are mourning for your life too. Deep deep sadness from years back.
I encourage you to forgive any you need to forgive, forgive yourself and ‘forgive’ God if you know what I mean. There is a real powerful release with this. Let go of the bitterness, the seeds of bitterness - search yourself out if you cannot immediately know what I speak of as there are ’seeds’ there - and also let go of any anger toward God or whatever wrongful accusations there are etc as I see them, though you may not speak them out they linger there at the back of your mind. You fear perhaps accusing God head on, but they linger there nonetheless ‘unspoken’, seeds planted by the accuser. I understand this, I have been there too. Ask God to forgive you for misunderstanding Him, for accusing him of evil when he is far from that (as when you doubt his promises for you, or think you are singled out as you are differant from other Christians you accuse him of evil toward you: God is JUST to all and perfect justice is displayed in the Cross which equalises every man), and ask Him to show you his true character towards you. You are no differant to any other child of God that he loves, though you may feel like forgotten about Cinders and may doubt God loves you as much as another person.
When I saw you the other day in the vision I gave you on the other post, I saw pale almost transluscent skin and deep dark circles around hollow eyes (from crying) and bruising and a lot of darkness there. Not darkness in the sense of evil or sin, but in the sense of a lack of life or vibrancy or joy - like you are cast in a spirit of mourning with widows clothes on.
I encourage you to be as Job, and regardless of anything, sickness, life, death, find joy in your maker and rejoice in Him for himself - a new level of intimacy and love and knowledge about God. Then nothing can cause you to grieve and mourn like you have, nothing as He is all that matters. What He can do for you (or not), what He can say no longer really matters, only He does as He is beautiful and wonderful beyond comprehension. It is hard to get to this place without suffering or affliction, but when you get there and when you get ‘it’, wow! No man can teach you this, it cannot be faked or just believed. You either see it or you don’t. I pray you will ‘get’ it, and then like Job, I pray God will heal you and restore you and your family.
Sandy, be released from this bitterness as you pray and forgive and repent, and I see then a heaviness and a yoke lifted from your shoulders. Joy comes and light too as your feeble frame is transformed to reflect God’s glory. Though then you can rejoice regardless of circumstances, I pray that God will then release you and your family from sickness and the spirit of death which seeks to entwine itself around you. ‘The reason the son of God was revealed was to destoy the works of the devil’. Jesus went about doing good healing all under the devil’s power….Jesus crushed Satan’s head (power). Lord Jesus Christ please destroy Satan’s works in Sandy’s mind and body, and release Sandy into fullness of life and health. You came to give Sandy life to the full. Dear God, in your grace and mercy you healed me. I did not deserve it, none of us do. You are a God of miracles. Please stretch out your hand, speak forth your word and heal Sandy. In Jesus name I ask. Amen.
Weeping only lasts for the night…but joy comes in the morning This promise is for you.
Psalm 30
I will exalt you, O LORD,
for you lifted me out of the depths
and did not let my enemies gloat over me.
O LORD my God, I called to you for help
and you healed me.
O LORD, you brought me up from the grave;
you spared me from going down into the pit.
Sing to the LORD, you saints of his;
praise his holy name.
For his anger lasts only a moment,
but his favor lasts a lifetime;
weeping may remain for a night,
but rejoicing comes in the morning.
When I felt secure, I said,
“I will never be shaken.”
O LORD, when you favored me,
you made my mountain stand firm;
but when you hid your face,
I was dismayed.
To you, O LORD, I called;
to the Lord I cried for mercy:
“What gain is there in my destruction,
in my going down into the pit?
Will the dust praise you?
Will it proclaim your faithfulness?
Hear, O LORD, and be merciful to me;
O LORD, be my help.”
You turned my wailing into dancing;
you removed my sackcloth and clothed me with joy,
that my heart may sing to you and not be silent.
O LORD my God, I will give you thanks forever.
I do struggle with bitterness towards people. I have been sick for awhile and it keeps me from living a normal life. I have been I feel wrongly judged by some family members and others as, Lazy and other things. It hurts me and I struggle with forgiveness on a daily basis. It’s very hard to go about my daily life and to have people say things that aren’t true especially after trying to explain to them that you are ill and may look healthy but my body feels as though it can’t keep going on like this for too long. I forgive them and push it out of my mind so as not to dwell on it. Then someone will say or do something and it’s as if a whole can of worms is opened. Then I say am I suppose to forgive them? I say that only because they have never asked for forgiveness and when I search the scriptures most of the examples of us forgiving seem to be when someone asks for it and so far they haven’t asked except for one. We can not expect God to forgive us unless we ask also. So I look at that and think that maybe it’s ok to feel upset because they have not asked to be forgiven nor do they think they are wrong.
So that is why I am struggling. I do want to forgive. I also do not want to hold on to any excuse to nurse my sadness. I want to be free of all sin in God. I know I can’t say anything to some of them because if I do they will more than likely get very angry and be quick tempered with me because that is how a lot of my family is.
As for going to church. I do not attend. Not because I do not want to, but because most churches I have found are in the “name it and claim it” movement and other doctrines that are in serious error. I do not want to get swept up in the error. I do want to go because it helps me to be around other Christians.
I also have had a woman to pray for me who was in the Toronto and Brownsville blessings and when she prayed for me I literally felt a spirit transfer from her body to mine and when trying to tell other Christians they say,”perhaps it was the Holy Spirit.” I tell them,”no it can not be, I did not feel peace instead confusion and something evil.” No one except the AOG people believe me that a Christian can get an unclean spirit. But a lot of them also are into this whole movement of error. There is more to this story but I do not want to get far into it. To the point then; when I go to church I get shaken, thrown to the floor, speak in tongues and rolled around and other very scary things. For this reason alone I want to find a church that believes in the Power of God and most other churches I have found either do not believe in this type of thing or like I said earlier caught up in wrong doctrine.
I went to a church in Miami. And the woman there would minister deliverance and terrible things would happen then one day, during deliverance, I realized all of a sudden that Jesus really did love me and that the devil had given me a spirit of confusion and that Jesus wanted me more free then I wanted myself free and when that happened I felt everything that was unclean in a spiritual sense start to get very scared. Then a very evil scared scream came from my mouth because the demon/s knew I was no longer confused and had faith. I felt it being compelled to leave my body. I felt it’s fear of God’s power and truth and having to leave. When this revelation came to me it was almost as if heaven opened up and I could see Jesus clearly for the first time. And as soon as it was almost out I heard something tell me that this was not the devil but it was all in my mind.
I then for a second started to doubt and the deliverance stopped. At that point the woman who was ministering deliverance told me that God told her the devil was whispering to me that this was all in my mind.
He was trying to do whatever he could to get my faith shaken so that He could stay.
She also would be careful how long she ministered deliverance because she said something about feeling we need to be careful because of my health and it would take a lot out of me.
So we stopped for the day and I think my health may have been why.
I never received complete deliverance after that.
I know that Christians can get demons and they usually get it by being fooled by “another jesus” in these movements and when seeking speaking in tongues (although not all tongues are of the devil nor do I think everytime you seek tongues you get a demon) and when others lay hands on you and they have unclean spirits.
I know cause it happened to me and I read many accounts of others.
You can also have a demon from things in your life that happened before salvation.
This was a long post and I am sorry but felt I should explain myself. There is a lot more to this story but I will not go into it because this is long enough.
You are right there have been accusations in the back of my mind toward God and I have been afraid to voice them as not wanting to accuse him to his face.
I try not to have these feelings. I do not understand why the Bible seems to be anti-female. It makes me feel angry and I do not want to feel that way because I know that God is never wrong nor can he sin. So I struggle with feelings of anger but at the same time love for God.
I have seen in the old testament where women were treated like property and dogs and sometimes worse then dogs. And I don’t know why God never corrected that. I have sought many preachers about this and all they tell me is that it was the Jews not God and they hardened their hearts and that is why those things happened. Yet I have not as of yet found a scripture where he corrected those sins and it made me feel as if it was perfectly ok with God for them to treat women this way. And if it were a sin then God would have corrected it because he is not unjust. So therefore it is not a sin to treat women as property and other terrible things I read.
I don’t have all the scriptures with me to make my point of the perceived injustices with me but, it really breaks me at times reading these things. I feel deep sadness now just thinking of it.
I hate the thoughts I have because I want to be right with God. Some days I forgive and push these thoughts aside and refuse to let them in my mind and other days they are there because I can not deny them until I understand why these things happened.
I do not outright accuse God because I am scared of Him. I know that I may be wrong about things too and maybe there is more to the stories in the old testament that I just do not yet understand.
Just to add to what I wrote above. I really do want to let go of this bitterness. Sometimes it feels as if I do not but really I do. I know this because I do not want anything holding me back from walking with the Lord no matter how hard it is.
All I really want is for these people to realise they are wrong about me and acknowledge it and apologize for saying these hurtful things.
However if I am wrong about scripture and God says I must forgive even if not apologized to then I will.
Sandy,
I don’t mean to speak for Endtimes. But I have been reading your story and have been touched by what you have said on this blog. I was praying for you earlier today because I just feel you on my heart.
About the woman who may have imparted an unclean spirit to you- I believe endtimes has Paul Gowdy’s testimony on her blog somewhere here. He was a pastor of a TACF branch church and he has since repented and left the Vineyard churches. I do know that scripture says “Draw near to God and He will draw near to You”. I would encourage you to do as Endtimes said earlier- press into God. I believe that if you had an unclean spirit in you then repent. Again, I don’t mean to speak for Endtimes because I don’t know what she might say so take what I say as just from me. Many in the Toronto Blessing have been deceived but I believe Paul said he repented and confessed before the Lord that he was sorry. Again draw near to God. He cares for you Sandy. He knows what you are going through. I have personally been struggly spiritually for the last 10 or so years and I have only been blogging for about 6 months but I have been ministered to so deeply by other brothers and sisters in Christ. And I am so much closer to the Lord as He uses the Body of Christ to minister to me. I do not attend a church myslef as the church my husband and I were attening really doesn’t preach the Gospel and is somewhat becoming an emmergent church so we left. We need fellowship. I understand where you are soming from. Allow God to minister to you Sandy. He will. Lord, I ask that you send a sister in Christ into Sandy’s life that they might be like David and Jonathan. Minister to her deep into her spirit, Lord.
Heal the wounds, oh mighty God.
Sandy, sometimes finding a hym ministers to me. There are many ways God can speak to you and minister.
As far as your family is concerned: How many times should I forgive? 70? no seventy times seven.
I know that is easier said than done.
God bless you Sandy. You are on my heart and in my prayers.
Sincerely,
Mary
Sandy: thanks for being so open and honest here.
>I really do want to let go of this bitterness. Sometimes it feels as if I do not but really I do.
I understand this. But the amazing thing is that if you are born again of the Spirit, the Holy Spirit will more than meet you halfway. All you need to have is the willingness to let go, and the repentance before God - that is you genuinely want to let go and forgive - and God will do it with you. In ourselves we can never forgive real bad hurt. No never. But with God’s Spirit amazing things are possible.
Let me tell you about someone I know that was sexually abused by multiple family members when she was a child. God showed me what had happened to her so I was able to reach out to her. She has been a Christian for some years, but she’s never been able to let go of her past despite counselling etc. Anyway, God told me I needed to tell her that she must forgive her family. ‘How can I ever do that after all they have done to me?’ she asked. ‘I know,’ I said, ‘but God said we must do it for ourselves more than anything, so we can live in our own forgiveness from Jesus as he freely forgave us.’
Forgiveness is not saying what they did to us is right, or it is Ok, or that you or your feelings do not and did not matter, but it is letting go of it from inside you, so you are no longer entangled by the past, so the hurt is no longer a snare within and holding you back. Cos the one that is most hurt by unforgiveness is you Sandy. Jesus says we can be free of our tormenters once we forgive. I explained to this abused lady how in myself I could not feel love towards people from my past who’d really hurt me, BUT forgiveness is not a feeling, or an anointing, it is a decision of will to let go and release people and release ourselves and that God will help us let go. In ourselves we will never have the strength, but our comforter and helper will help us, as He is faithful to do God’s will within us.
I did not rush this lady there and then to make a decision - she knew it must be heartfelt and needed to think - but I knew God spoke to her on this. A few days later, I said on something else in her life how God was going to bless her and then said..’God’s going to be doing awesome things through you, you’ll be a real beacon of light in this town. You are not going to like to hear this one bit now, but I see your family come to know Jesus…’ Just over a week later I discovered this lady had not only forgiven all her family members in her mind but gone one better and made a special trip of several hundred miles to reconcile with them. Her mother became a Christian there and then and also immediately got healed of arthritis or rheumatism. The former abused lady is beaming with light now and her face and body looks differant even. This forgiveness was for her, more than for the abusers. Do you see? Counselling did not help her. Forgiveness did. This woman is on fire for God and just so happy. She also told me that God felt a lot closer to her than ever before and she’s walking out in the gifts now whereas she was a little mouse before. Wow! That is the power of forgiveness!
So I advise you to first ask God to forgive YOU for being bitter and holding unforgiveness and ask him to cleanse you by his Holy Spirit of all bitter roots that have defiled you. Because all bitter seeds give Satan ground in your body to hurt you and could be why you have not been healed to date. Then ask God through his Holy Spirit to help you to forgive others, and even if you do not feel anything go through one by one the people on your list and forgive them. Make yourself do it, If you are jealous or resentful of others health and happiness ask God to forgive you for this ‘coveting’ as well.
Forgiveness is a way of life, is not a one off thing but once you start doing it it becomes a lot easier (usually) but it will get tested.
>Then I say am I suppose to forgive them?
Yes, even if they do not ask for it. Go one better and not only forgive them yourself but to ask God to forgive them and then see the blessing released in their lives.
>it’s ok to feel upset
Feeling upset and forgiving someone can be two differant things. I guess it all depends how you hold on to the hurt and let it fester. Learn to run to God right away instead of inside yourself. I think you hold on and these hurts wraps around your body and physically causes it damage. You brood a lot on things, and have got quite introverted with it. It is a way of dealing with things and a way of escape in a way, but it is unhealthy. Instead of nursing your hurts, give them to God as soon as possible, release them to Him. Don’t carry the load, give it to Him to take off you. Stop yourself dwelling on things and ask God’s help not to brood. he will truly help you and release you from this mindset if you are willing. It does not mean you will not get sad from time to time and people will not be mean to you: Jesus cried, but the differance is he was not eaten up by hurts as he dealt with them right and his mind and heart was right and would not allow resentment to get in there - which it will every time if you let it. People will stop having power over you when you learn this lesson. You have the power to not be deeply wounded by others by your forgiveness.
Also the next time you feel jealous of someone, pray a blessing over them instead and try to mean it. If you detect any bitterness say to the Lord, ‘I do not feel like it, and I am angry and hurt, please cleanse me and forgive me of my iniquities but I genuinely want to want to bless people.’ Feelings will follow, but first comes the will and the place of repentance. Then you can walk in it.
When you bless others, you will truly be blessed. (The beatitudes or the beautiful attitudes) And before you say you ain’t Mother Theresa, well I ain’t either. Is anybody? BUT God is faithful and it is his Holy Spirit that does this and makes our ugly heart beautiful. All you need to do is be willing.
Mary: I welcome your imput, anybody’s imput. All can speak blessing to Sandy and your opinions and experiences are valid. Wouldn’t it be cool if you guys lived close to each other?
Sandy:
>I never received complete deliverance after that.
There is no reason why you always have to go through horrible manifestations to be free. God can free you quietly. God knows your circumstances and I would encourage you to press into God and ask him to heal you and deliver you but also please find a church to go to. There is no perfect church, but you really do need fellowship and company. Go to a non Charismatic one if you are uncomfortable with manifestastions or flaky theology.
>You are right there have been accusations in the back of my mind toward God and I have been afraid to voice them as not wanting to accuse him to his face.
Yes but can you see them just being there thought but unsaid are still unhealthy and sinful? I totally understand this, I have been there, I am sure many others have too. More than God being angry at you having these thoughts, is the fact that they hold you back. God is a loving father yet you accuse him of being an uncaring sexist pig or whatever, and so will not let his love minister to you as you do not realise the true extent of his love.
>I do not understand why the Bible seems to be anti-female.
I used to think that. I got really angry with God when I first became a Christian for that exact reason: I am not proud to say it but I was quite rude with God about it. But it is because I totally misunderstood God and his ways. I did not really know Him. It is hard for you to see at the moment because of your unhealthy fear and distorted view of God, but there is a place where you can totally rejoice in God for God Himself as he is so lovely. Before I often wondered how boring eternity would be just worshipping God cos I never understood how wonderful he really is. There really is a place where you can just dwell in Him and love Him and bask in his love, like a loved up teenager I guess, except without rose tinted spectacles.
What you need to remember is that the Bible gives lots of mini biographies of people. It often speaks in a neutral tone as to what they did or did not do. So it will state that so and so got raped or was treated badly or whatever but perhaps will not always specifically say the person sinned. There was a lot of mysogony in the Old Testament going on but it does not mean that God liked or approved of it. It does not mean that God condoned the person’s actions towards women. If you read through the Levitical Law it actually speaks against treating women like dogs, the law of Moses does give women a status and Miriam, Sarah, Huldah and Deborah among others were given a high status. Even Eve.
If you see that fact, then a lot of what you blame on God is wrong, and you realise you have a warped view of God and are blocking out God’s love to you as a woman. God made women, he loves them. You perhaps have an unhealthy view of men and what a real father is because of your hurts and past, but it blocks you seeing God the perfect Father and Christ the perfect husband. May God open your eyes. he is just so beautiful Sandy. Yes we should fear Him, but healthy fear means to obey him out of love by acknowledging His rule. Unhealthy fear (which a lot of Catholics have) fears being struck by lightning if we walk out of line and thinks that God is standing there waiting with a pointed finger to poke at us if we trip and fall. Far from it. Is this how you are with your kids?! I doubt it. PERFECT LOVE CASTS OUT ALL FEAR. May you graps this perfect love, and let is be made perfect in you.
The New Testament gave women a new freedom and was revolutionary. It is far from anti female, indeed it says in Christ there is no slave or master, male or female we are all one. A lot of people twist the scriptures against women, but if we study them they twist them out of context to mean something that was never originally said.
Ah,
I have struggled with thinking God was sexist too. There was a Christian brother in my life that felt that all women were called to be submissive to all men and something in that statement didn’t sit with me. I think he kept bringing it up because he was insecure. I don’t know. But I think much of my fear of God being sexist was due to the world’s warped perception of women-goog for only a few things.As I have grown in Christ I have found great freedom as a woman. We are all fellow servants of each other. The paradox in God’s world is when we are slaves to God we are truly free. Don’t forget some of the greatest women in the Bible like Esther had a power impact on history and were greatly used of God.
BTW,
I live in Maryland.
Miriam and Mary,
I want to say thank you for taking the time to answer me and in detail. It’s not something I expect nor is it something you have to do but you did it and it means a lot to me.
I live in WV at this time. Hopefully not too much longer this place is cold
Miriam,
Now that I understand that some of the prophecies you give are
what Jesus says and part of what you think added in there I was curious. Can you remember if what you stated in the above prophecy was what the Lord said or what you added in there?
This is the part I speak of:
as when you doubt his promises for you, or think you are singled out as you are differant from other Christians you accuse him of evil toward you: God is JUST to all and perfect justice is displayed in the Cross which equalises every man), and ask Him to show you his true character towards you. You are no differant to any other child of God that he loves, though you may feel like forgotten about Cinders and may doubt God loves you as much as another person.
Sandy: My prophecies are not what I think added in there too - I keep them ‘pure’ but in some of my comments and explanations and examples on this site when talking to you it is sometimes just my opinion which may or may not be right. I felt divinely inspired when writing the above sentances to you and think them to be true, but I did not see this in a vision - albeit I did see you feeling like Cinders.
Miriam,
I knew you kept them pure.
That is what I meant.
Thanks again.
Sandy!
THANK YOU sooo much for posting your situation, you’ve NO idea how blessed I was by it, as well as the responses from Miriam and Mary.
GOD knows what we need and gives it to us if we only seek… and even when we don’t, if we are open to learning more from Him and about Him.
God continue to bless and keep you and your family.
Sandy, What does AOG stand for? I agree Christians can have and can get an unclean spirit. You post number 8 was a great post. I too have been looking for a church like you have described.
Hi ladies,
I don’t mean to be the awkward guy butting in to the conversation, but I have had some misunderstanding on the topic of male dominance in the Bible as well. As a man, I didn’t ever have the problem of thinking that I was possibly inferior(due to scripture). Just the other day, however my signicifant other(I am not married) asked me If I thought that women were supposed to be submissive to men, or if women were somehow innately inferior. My immediate reply was “NO!”. I had to laugh because I nearly scared myself when I answered so loudly. I know that God’s character shows no favoritism between men and women, but I was having trouble seeing it in some scripture. Namely the following.
1 Corinthians
exact lines: 33:35
26What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. 27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.
29Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.
As in all the congregations of the saints, 34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
36Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. 38If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored.[i]
39Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.
Sorry for making it long, but I’m kind of stuck on “in context” scripture.
This verse is confusing because it is new testament and talks about women speaking in church as disgraceful.
I would like to say that I do in fact believe that men and women are equal in God’s eyes without a question. In this scripture it’s diffucult not to notice at least an implied male dominance, or a female inferiority. I know that God does not want this to be misused and also think that I should know exactly what it means. I do pray and critically think about this issue but would also like any other inputs offered.
Much obliged
Praises be to the Lord God!!
-Servant
Servant: thanks for bringing this up, as it is a common scripture that is brought out to tread down on women. I have meant to write on it, but you have beaten me to it. There are many churches that tread women down and they use faulty theology to justify their positions. I have been in modern day churches that women cannot even pray aloud, and must sit there meekly wearing a hat. They also cannot cut their hair or have any opinion but to baby-raise…but (hypocritically) they are allowed to teach Sunday school! Women who speak are scorned as Jezebels and it is thoroughly nasty, hateful, unloving stuff.
The rule with understanding scripture is that if you see one verse that sticks out and seems to contradict everything else in the whole Bible, you must study it and its context very carefully and NOT make a whole theology on it as you most likely misapply and misunderstand what is spoke on as I cannot think of one theology or theory that is justified by one verse alone (and particularly not something as important as this). Does not even the Bible say ‘let a matter be firmly established by 2 or 3 witnesses’? This is common sense for any theme or theology on anything. Find at least 2 or 3 things that say the same thing or you are on shaky ground.
Also if any verse seems to jarr and seem completely out of place with the otherwise flow, likewise you probably have a faulty interpretation as Paul did not speak staccato, he spoke in flowing prose and reasoned argument in logical order.
Although people accuse the apostle Paul of mysogony they cannot be more wrong, he was very much an equalist. You can be sure that IF God, Paul or anyone else had said what the modern church THINKS Paul said on women, he would have written many more passages using many more persuasive arguments as we both know how good he was at explaining things. If anything he went overboard to make a point, he did not just make an important theology in just 2 or 3 lines (he used more like 2 or 3 chapters).
All the conservatives who have ever argued women must stay quiet and cannot be in leadership have always used faulty logic as well as poor interpretation. When you ask them about Deborah or Miriam or Huldah or others, they say ‘God only raised up Deborah because he could not find a man to do it.‘ I have never heard something so insulting and also so contradictory! Yes, Deborah certainly shamed the weak men around her, but if women leading men were hideous in God’s sight, God would NOT have contradicted his word, he would not have gone against himself, he would have raised another Balaam’s donkey or used anything or everything other than use a woman if it were really so odious to Him. God does not sin. If a woman in leadership is sin, then God sinned by using Deborah or Miriam or any of the others. Whoops God…I thought you were holy. Oh yes you are. The conservative men must have it wrong them. Why don’t they see this then, that they actually accuse you of evil when they say you compromised yourself and your values when you could not find a good man and so got a woman as a last choice?
I Corinthians 14, verses 33-37 had always confused me until recently (because it jarred and was contradictory against many scriptures including Joel’s promise), namely:
And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.’
If you read I Corinthians through straight for a few passages before this, these verses seem completely out of place and really jarr on the flow of the message if we accept the surface interpretation which is Paul says women should be quiet in church. One moment Paul’s talking about the flow, context and practice of prophecy and his argument is logical and flowing, and then boom, he seems to change tack completely. This seemed very odd to me and I could not understand it although I also knew its real meaning could not be what it seems on the surface to say - that women must keep quiet in church - as earlier on it says that when women prophesy or pray aloud in church they should do it with their heads covered. You cannot have it both ways to mean they should be silent and prophesy with their heads covered! You also see other ample evidence in the NT that women spoke in church and even had positions of leadership.
I have read all sorts of books on women in ministry and never been satisifed with the answers within them which talked about cultural context blah blah. The trouble is for women, that you have the conservatives on one end of the scale who say the most obvious explanation is the law, you must obey it, and the charismatics and others who give very poor explanations and say it is only cultural or they ignore these difficult passages on women all together. This is not helpful as consequentally you have many women called to ministry, who know the call of God but in the back of their minds are held back because nobody has given them a decent sound theological interpretation of these passages.
It was not until recently that I read ‘God’s word to women’ by Dr Katharine Bushnell. She was a doctor as well as a missionary to China and learnt Biblical Greek and Hebrew. In China, she noticed translation work of the Bible into Chinese and she thought it were dishonestly done by modern translators to subjugate women. She began comparing the English translation to the original Greek New Testament and found similar patterns, and began studying Hebrew as well on her long sea travels. And she wrote a book on her findings. Her book is online free here: http://godswordtowomen.org/studies/resources/onlinebooks/gwtw.htm
Now I do not agree with everything Dr Bushnell claims. But there are some real gems of wisdom in there including on this passage on I Cor 14.
Re I Corr 14. Remember what the letter of 1 Cornithians actually was. It was a letter from Paul to the church, answering some of their questions sent him by a letter. He regularly quotes this, for instance ‘everything is permissable’ and quotes this from them and then goes on to say ‘you may say this but…..not everything is beneficial’. Ok so it is question and answer throughout and this is accepted sound theological interpretation of the book. Now let’s skip ahead to the bit about women being silent.
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
This was a quote from the Corinthian church in their letter to Paul, or something Paul had heard them say or teach, as as Dr Bushnell points out it was not the Jewish law and was not the truth! This was them saying this is what some think should be taught (as per everything is permissable) and Paul retorts back -
‘WHAT?’ It is a sharp retort. You got to be joking he says. ‘Came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?’ Are men the only ones the word came to? he says. It is a strong rebuke to the men and not the women. If any man thinks he is a prophet, let him see this truth, he says, we are all equal. THIS SCRIPTURE IS ONE OF THE BEST IN THE NT FOR PROVING FEMALE EQUALITY AND NOT DISPROVING IT! It puts down abusive men seeking to keep women silent.
Dr Bushnell goes into many more details as well about this passage saying that there was nothing in the law to say women must keep silent etc etc and it was mysogonist stuff from the Talmud coming through and the Judaisers and not true Judaism.
If you put those negative verses about women in quote marks, then you will see this passage’s real meaning, and see Paul’s sharp retort back, then the verse flows and makes perfect sense with its context and everything else around it. It no longer jarrs as being out of place but makes perfect sense and is in exactly the right place when talking about the context of prophesy - everybody should be allowed to, one by one in decency and order. (Remember there is no other passage that justifies this scripture to mean women should keep silent, only ones that contradict it. Also it was NOT the Jewish law, as that said no such thing, so it must have been incorrect, and why would Paul say WHAT?! it is completely out of context if he is not rebuking the saying.)
If only men could see what Paul is saying here: ‘if any of you thinks he is prophetic or spiritual let him test this and see for himself the truth of this.’
I challenge them to see the real truth in this scripture they love to bandy about so much (I am not talking about you Servant) for Paul says ‘for we have no other practise in all the churches of God.’ Paul saw keeping down women as SINFUL AND HATEFUL. He saw eqaulity between the sexes as essential and fundamental theology. I challenge all to see the truth in this, and if they do not, Paul himself says they are neither spiritual or prophetic. Strong stuff, but we are talking about over 50% of the church bound down by faulty theology from ‘non spiritual’ and ‘non prophetic’ men.
Strong stuff indeed. Thank GOD for Paul!
Regarding the passage in Timothy:
Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression (I Timothy 2:11-14 NKJV).
Put into context, the city contained thousands of prostitutes, as well as a shrine to Diana, and lots of paganism involving sexual immorality that was believed to lead closer to God. Also women in this city were more revered than men and were putting men down (probably because of the sexual stuff and a lot of feminism gone way too far). The cult of Artemis taught the superiority of the female and advocated female domination of the male.
CATHERINE C. KROEGER says: ‘In Ephesus, where a great multitude of sacred courtesans were attached to the shrine of Diana, women had much to unlearn. Previously they had been taught that fornication brought the worshiper into direct communion with the deity. It is worth noting that certain Gnostics and Nestorians employed ‘authentia’ (the word verb which has been wrongly translated as to usurp authority) to indicate a force binding together the fleshly and the divine. But converts must learn that the one Mediator between God and man was Christ Jesus, and that they must practice their newfound faith in quiet decorum rather than in the wild and clamorous orgies demanded by Ephesian religion.’
Don Rousu said: (from http://godswordtowomen.org/studies/articles/fees.htm#Scripture_is_Finally_Explained-) “The translation hinges on the Greek verb, authentein. The problem is that this verb is found nowhere else in the Bible. From years of studying biblical languages, I know that translators learn the meaning of a word by studying it in other Bible passages. Where there are no other Bible passages, they must look in comparative literature of the same time period. Although most translators of I Timothy have interpreted authentein to mean ‘to usurp authority’ over a man, or ‘to have authority’ over a man, such a translation violates both the context of Paul’s writing and the first century usage of the word in other literature…
“Around the time the New Testament was written, the most common meaning of authentein was ‘to be, or claim to be the author or the originator of something.’ To underscore the point with a pun, this appears to be the authentic translation of authentein, the crucial verb of I Tim. 2:12.
“Not only have translators overlooked the prevailing meaning of the word authentein at the time the New Testament was written, but they also seem to have missed the cultural context in which Paul wrote his letter to Timothy.
“Timothy was in Ephesus. Ephesus was the world center of paganism governed spiritually by the female deity Artemis, whom the Romans called Diana. The cult of Artemis taught the superiority of the female and advocated female domination of the male. It espoused a doctrine of feminine procreation teaching that this goddess was able to bring forth offspring without male involvement. The cult was characterized by sexual perversion, fertility rites, endless myths, and elaborate genealogies traced through female rather than male bloodlines…
“Also present in Ephesus was a contingent of Jewish Gnostics who represented the first century’s equivalent of the New Age movement. The Greek word for ‘Gnostic’ is gnosis meaning ‘knowledge.’ Gnostics acknowledged spirit guides and combined the teachings of Artemis with the teachings of the Old Testament story of Adam and Eve.
“In the most prevalent Gnostic version of the story, Eve was the ‘illuminator’ of mankind because she was the first to receive ‘true knowledge’ from the Serpent, whom Gnostics saw as the ’savior’ and revealer of truth. Gnostics believed that Eve taught this new revelation to Adam, and being the mother of all, was the progenitor of the human race. Adam, they said, was Eve’s son rather than her husband. This belief reflected the Gnostic doctrine that a female deity could bring forth children without male involvement.
“In light of the authentic meaning of the word authentein and of the social context within which Paul wrote his letters to Timothy, let me offer what I believe is an appropriate rendering of the text in I Timothy. I believe Paul is saying, ‘I am not allowing (present tense for that situation) a woman to teach or to proclaim herself the originator of man authentein.’ Do you see how this translation offsets false doctrine?
“The word that is frequently translated ’silence,’ hesuchia, also means harmony, peace, conformity or agreement. I therefore suggest Paul goes on to say, ’she must be in agreement,’ meaning agreement with the Scriptures and with sound teaching in the Church.
“He continues in this vein saying, ‘Adam was formed first, then Eve.’ This statement militates against the doctrine of Eve as progenitor. He also says, ‘Adam was not deceived, but the woman was! And sinned!’ This statement directly contradicts the notion that Eve was the ‘illuminator,’ and carrier of new revelation.”
Timothy 2:11-12 (Paraphrased and Amplified)
[Now in response to the Gnostic teaching stemming from the worship of Artemis that Eve was the originator of Adam and the goddess of life], let a woman learn (in agreement with sound doctrine) with all submission (to that doctrine). And I do not permit a woman to teach that she is the originator or the illuminator of man, but to be in agreement (with the church). For Adam was first formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived [his was direct disobedience], but woman being deceived [thus not being infallible], fell into transgression [proving that she was human.]
CATHERINE C. KROEGER says: ‘This word authentein is a rare Greek verb, found only here in the entire Bible, it is ordinarily translated “to bear rule” or “to usurp authority”; yet a study of other Greek literary sources reveals that it did not have this meaning until the third or fourth century, well after the time of the New Testament. Essentially the word means “to thrust oneself. ” Its earliest meanings are noteworthy, since they might provide a quite different understanding of a difficult text. We must also examine the closely related nouns authentia (later translated as “power”), authentes (after the New Testament period, “master”
and the adjective authentikos, which still survives in English as “authentic.” Although the usages prior to and during the New Testament period are few and far between, they are briefs of murder cases and once to mean suicide, as did Dio Cassius. Thucydides, Herodotus, and Aeschylus also use the word to denote one who slays with his own hand, and so does Euripides. The Jewish Philo, whose writings are contemporary with the New Testament, meant “self-murderer” by his use of the term.
In Euripides the word begins to take on a sexual tinge. Menelaos is accounted a murderer because of his wife’s malfeasance, and Andromache, the adored wife of the fallen Hector, is taken as a concubine by the authentes, who can command her domestic and sexual services. In fury the legitimate wife castigates Andromache with sexually abusive terms as “having the effrontery to sleep with the son of the father who destroyed your husband, in order to bear the child of an authentes.” In the extended passage she mingles the concepts of incest and domestic murder, so that love and death color the meaning. The word also occurs in a homosexual sense in a speech by Theseus, king of Athens, where love of young boys was considered a virtue rather than a vice.
The grammarian Phynichus, writing approximately A.D. 180, explained that the word is composed of two parts–autos, “self,” and hentos from hiemi: to “thrust out from oneself” or to “desire.” The word should never, he announced, be used to denote tyranny, but rather murder by one’s own hand, as with a sword. (The sword was considered a phallic symbol in ancient Greece.) Moeris, also in the second century, advised his students to use another word, autodikein, as it was less coarse than authentein. The Byzantine Thomas Magister reiterates the warning against using this objectionable term. The charred fragments of a scroll excavated from the ruins of Herculaneum demonstrate the use of authentein in a parallel position to “those wounded by the terrible shafts of Eros.” The lines were penned by the rhetorician and obscene epigrammatist, Philodemus, who was nicknamed “Lascivus.”
In Egyptian magic and Gnostic-papyri, the terms authentes, autlientikos, and authentia designated the original, the primordial, the “authentic”; and by the third century, the concept of the primal source had merged with that of power and authority. In most ancient theologies, creative acts were also sexual ones; and the erotic connotation of authentein lingered on.
In a lengthy description of various tribes’ sexual habits, Michael Glycas, the Byzantine historiographer, uses this verb to describe women “who make sexual advances to men and fornicate as much as they please without arousing their husbands’ jealousy.” The eighth-century folk epic Digenes Akrites repeatedly employs authentes as a term of endearment, usually in an amorous sense, and quite often its use ushers in an erotic scene such as this:
“That was why, my authentes [lover], fear came over me.” We kissed a thousand times and went into the tent.”
In another scene introduced by the use of both autitentes and the feminine authenteria, there follows so amorous an episode that the mother-in-law is obliged to douse the couple with cold water lest they should be completely overcome by the heat of their passion.
But what can the term authentein imply in 1 Timothy 2:12? In his Commentary on I Timothy 5.6, St. John? Chrysostom uses autheritia to denote “sexual license.” If the word in this context refers to sexual behavior, it puts a quite different interpretation on the entire passage. For instance, if we were to translate the passage, “I forbid a woman to teach or engage in fertility practices with a man” would imply that the woman should not involve a man in the heretical kind of Christianity which taught licentious behavior as one of its doctrines. Such a female heretic did indeed “teach to fornicate” in the Thyatiran church mentioned in Revelation 2:20 (cf. 2:14f.; Num. 25:3; 31:15f.). Too often we underestimate the seriousness of this problem for the New Testament church. A passage in 2 Peter expresses concern not only for those drawn into this error but also for the illegitimate children which it produced:
But Israel had false prophets as well as true; and you likewise will have false teachers among you. . . . Having eyes full of adultery, that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls, an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children which have forsaken the right way … following the way of Balaam…. They utter big empty words, and make of sensual lusts and debauchery a bait to catch those who have barely begun to escape from their heathen environment (2:1,14f.,18).
It is evident that a similar heresy is current at Ephesus, where these false teachers “led captive silly women laden with sins” (2 Tim. 3:6f.).
Licentious doctrines continued to vex the church for several centuries, to the dismay of the church fathers. Clement of Alexandria wrote a detailed refutation of the various groups who endorsed fornication as accepted Christian behavior. He complained of those who had turned love-feasts into sex orgies, of those who taught women to “give to every man that asketh of thee,” and of those who found in physical intercourse a “mystical communion.” He branded one such lewd group authentai (the plural of authentes).
Others have kicked over the traces and waxed wanton, having become indeed “wild horses who whinny after their neighbors’ wives.” They have abandoned themselves to lust without restraint and persuade their neighbors to live licentiously.
Continuing, he describes them as “lecherous, incontinent men who fight with their tails, children of darkness and anger, thirsty for their blood, authentai, and murderers of their neighbors” (Stromata, III.xviii).
Such, then, are the deluded Christians who persuade their neighbor wives to live voluptuously.
But if I Timothy 2.12 is understood as a prohibition against promulgating licentious doctrine; and practices, how does this tie in with the entire passage? Women are bidden to dress modestly and with propriety (vv. 9-10)–surely a necessity in a city which boasted thousands of prostitutes. Sumptuary laws forbade any but harlots the adornment Paul here proscribes. “Imitate not the courtesans,” thundered John Chrysostom in his commentary on this passage–and widens his censure to include seductive voice as well as dress.
The devil had once seduced Eve (the verb in vv. 13 and 14 is also a sexual one); and Jewish tradition held that Satan chose the woman because she was newer and therefore more gullible. She was quite genuinely deceived, supposing that she would gain the knowledge of good and evil; and she involved Adam, who was not deceived, in the transgression. To women who had been trained in childhood in the gross immorality of the Phrygian cult, the admonition was certainly appropriate. But prostitutes were active in many areas of ancient life, and some of these found Christ as well.
Virtually without exception, female teachers among the Greeks were courtesans, such as Aspasia, who numbered Socrates and Pericles among her students. Active in every major school of philosophy, these hetairai made it evident in the course of their lectures that they were available afterwards for a second occupation. But the Bible teaches that to seduce men in such a manner was indeed to lead them to slaughter and the halls of death (cf. Prov. 2:18; 5:5; 7:27; 9:18). The verb authentein is thus peculiarly apt to describe both the erotic and the murderous.
Dr Bushnell :’Verse 11. Let a woman learn, quietly, in all subjection [to God].
The word “silence” should be translated “quietness,” and so it is in the R.V.The same word occurs in 2 Thessalonians 3:12, where Paul says: “We command and exhort . . . that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.” No one supposed that in this latter passage Paul commands the men to be dumb when about their daily task, but only that they attend to their own business, and make no unnecessary fuss about it.
Verse 15. And she will be saved by the Child-bearing [i.e., the bearing of Jesus Christ], if they abide in faith, and love and sanctification with self-restraint.
“She shall be saved by [or through] the Childbearing.” Womankind is saved through ‘Eve’ giving birth through her descendants to Jesus! Paul implies that woman’s social rescue began in the birth of Jesus Christ; and we all know how Christianity, unhampered by the narrowness of man, is calculated to elevate woman, until in Christ she stands on his level (Galatians 3:27, 28)’
Dear Sisters
I didn’t know how to email you Sister Miriam about this, but I would just ask that those of you who go to the website “God’s Word To Women” to please put on your biblical discernment. There are many good articles, but there are also some pretty horrific ones as well. http://www.godswordtowomen.org/studies/articles/coates.htm
Government in the Garden
This is an example of a very bad message which is promoting dominionist theology. The author is a woman who believes that Jesus cannot return until the church takes dominion over the earth. Only then can the Lord return to earth and receive the gift (the earth) His bride has prepared for Him.
Just wanted to let you know so you can take care. Love you in the Lord, Cheryl
Cheryl: thanks, you are right there is some great and not so great stuff there, some dodgy articles there and some articles with gems surrounded by poor theology, so yes be very careful.
I approve your answer Mrs. Franklin
… Wow, that me read Corinthians in an entirely different light.
God guide us to the Truth
-Servant
That was supposed to be a thank you also, but I managed neglect that part somehow. :\??
Thank You
Servant: Bless ya!
Does anyone have any info on what Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit means?
Thanks so much Miriam for the piece on women in the church. It is very helpful and informative.
Brwnbeauty,
I am glad you were helped by the above posts.
Linda,
AOG means Assembly of God. I am not saying that all assemblies of God churches are carried off into error. I have read that a lot are and some are still standing strong.
Linda: I know there is a discussion about it on one of the topics here,
http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2007/08/21/testing-the-gift-of-tongues-what-are-you-afraid-of-if-you-do/
God heals or he doesn’t. Which is it? Aside from the people that have committed the sin unto death. It would seem to me that if we are to have unwavering faith then that must mean God will heal us every time. How can one have unwavering faith if that is not true? It’s not possible. The bible says you must believe that you receive. You can not believe that you receive healing if you are unsure of God’s stance on the situation. It makes no sense to say I believe that God can heal me if he wills. That does not go along with his command to believe that you have received what you are praying for and you will receive it. It also does not go along with the command to heal the sick and raise the dead. Jesus would have to say , “pray about it and if it is my will, I will tell you to lay hands on the sick and they will recover. Pray about it first and if it is my will then I will tell you to raise the dead. He commanded it without an if or but
Yet you see in the bible where Paul left Trophimus SICK at Miletum . And how he told Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach ailments. If healing was for all time then why did Paul just not stretch out his hand and heal them? If healing was for all time then why did Timothy and Trophimus not exercise their faith and become healed? Why didn’t timothy call for the church elders and become anointed with oil so the prayer of faith would raise him up?
The only way I can make sense of apparent contradictions in this healing doctrine is that when Jesus said they would heal the sick and to ask in faith without doubting and believing in your heart that you have received and you would be given what you ask for by God, it must have been to the early church so that they could become established with signs and miracles. I am not saying that is my official stance but I can not see how anything else so far even fits.
There were 2 times off the top of my head that I had unwavering faith believing that I receive what I ask for. Those 2 times something amazing happened. But my faith was expectant. I knew without a doubt the Lord would answer my prayers and did not need to worry if it was his will. The times before that breakthrough of faith came I prayed about those 2 same things and nothing happened. It wasn’t until I got past the, ” I wonder if it is the Lord’s will or not?” before I received.
But then you have the “contradictions” in the bible and it makes me wonder if what I experienced was a genuine miracle of God or as some would say a counterfeit miracle from Satan.
Sandy:
>it must have been to the early church so that they could become established with signs and miracles.
What you say may have more weight if you did not have the frequent Old Testament writings that testify to God’s healing his people and his desire for their wholeness. He is the same God yesterday, today and forever…. and the same Jesus that says ‘I am willing’ to the sick man, is the same Jesus today, albeit glorified and seated at the right hand of the Father in Heaven.
The fact that some Saints may suffer from sickness does not negate the fact God is their healer.
We do not know the full facts re Trophimus to build a firm doctrine out of it: he may have been tired and burned out, it may be he was being disciplined by God (as per Miriam with the leprosy), it may be that God allowed Satan to inflict a temporary sickness for a greater good to protect Trophimus from going onto Rome with Paul and face certain death with him, or it may be he was already in recovery from something rather minor like flu or food poisoning and Paul would not or could not wait for him to fully recover. After all healing can sometimes take time and not always be instant. So God may have healed Trophimus but its full manifestation was not outworked. There are lots of possibilities.
Furthermore, some commentators think that the instruction to Timothy to ‘take a little wine’ is referring to stopping the stomach ‘gripe’ or whatever during extended periods of fasting. Another possibility is that it is referencing to the effects of living in an area with bad drinking water where you might suffer from lots of diarohea etc.
To build a doctrine that God does not heal based on a few obscure scriptures like this is not sound theology in my view - not when dozens of other scriptures all say the opposite that God does heal.
Anyway, even if this were not the case (which I do not claim theologically but for the sake of the next point), you know God can heal sometimes at least, and one can have certain faith for some healing situations. To worry about counterfeit answers to prayer in these circumstances I think is totally unnecessary in this context and also could be sinful unbelief.
I need to share this. I have a grandchild who had asthma. Going to the hospital, steroids all the time asthma. Last year, 2/2007, my Hannah was spending the night and was sick with asthma. I prayed for her all night. The asthma lessened but she was not healed. I waited for understanding about why G-d did not take it. Apparently Hannah saw asthma as a part of her/ a part of her life and here is what G-d did. He took it and split it, giving me the bigger share of it. My doctor pout me on asthma medicine and so forth. G-d said that Hannah needed to baptised [done] and we would walk out from under it which we are. Hannah never uses asthma medicine-doesn’t need it. I don’t either.
I want to also say that asthma is a scary disease and I thank G-d for letting me walk in it so my prayers for those with asthma will be that much stronger.I had no idea what myHannah had to go through.
I asked the Holy Spirit for a scripture about me helping to carry the asthma and was given Hebrews 2:18.
Miriam,
I am not sure but I think I know what your silence to my question means. The thing that bothers me is that I thought I was being a Berean because scripture has to prove itself. I guess I was deceived. I also thought since Thomas Doubted after seeing everything himself and John The Baptist even had his doubts that my doubts were not something to be scared of.
Anyways, it looks like your blog is becoming quite popular. Well over 500,000 hits. Wow
Sandy:
I will get back to you on your points raised, but it will (probably) take a bit of time as I have a lot of emails to answer.
You do not need to be ‘afraid’ of your doubts in the manner you meant. They are normal. Rather it is your response to these doubts that counts.
The Bereans took what was said to them and tested it against the word of God to see whether it weighed up and was true. It was not ‘proving’ scripture in the way you meant it by experience.
The sites you mentioned to me are dangerous and are bound to instil doubts in you. Jesus is consitently shown through the Old Testament - read Isaiah 53 for example.
My best advice for you to do is to call out to Jesus, ask Him for wisdom and ask Him to help you through this time, to keep you from falling, however He seeks to do it. Talk to Him about your doubts openly and ask them about them with an open heart and mind - He will not turn you away if you are honest with Him - do you not think He knows how you think and feel anyway? He is not going to strike you with lightning if you confess you are struggling to believe or whatever……’I believe, help now by unbelief!’
Hi,
I too have been apart of the name it claim it ministers. I too want to see God heal the sick. It is my desire. I have somewhat fallen a way and I am ashamed. I have been struggling with allergies and gerd. I have prayed expecting. I have been angry with God.
As I sit here typing this post I have a feeling of sickness over me now. I want to healed. I get alone with God. Sometimes I find myself asking “what am I doing wrong?”
I have been plagued with the fear of death, and down right in terror about health issues. I think sometimes we all who have been in these types of ministries are confused and don’t know what to do. I do attend church, but we don’t attend as a family. My church does not support me with my child who has been diagnosed as autistic. I have prayed over him and rebuked this “whatever it is” I feel lost.
In that lost feeling I also know Jesus is the only answer I just don’t know how to get out of this rut.
I started learn how to be still before God and it I believe is helping. I also downloaded sermons from Tozer. I know that Jesus loves me but do I believe it?
Need Wisdom,
Sweet Tee in SC