The Toronto Blessing….or curse?
The Toronto Deception
By a former Toronto Vineyard Pastor
(from http://www.discernment-ministries.org/TheTorontoDeception.htm)“It has taken me nine years to actually come to the place where I would write this story. Part of the reason was because I was not fully convinced that it is appropriate to speak out against weaknesses in the body of Christ publicly. Another reason is because it has taken years of soul searching to become convinced that what happened in the Toronto Airport Church was actually all bad or at least more bad than good!
For the past number of years I have called it a mixed blessing. I think James A. Beverly called it this in his book Holy Laughter and the Toronto Blessing 1994. Today I would call it a mixed curse concluding that any individual good that came from this experience is far outweighed by much harm and satanic deception. I suppose that therein has been my dilemma. I have tried to live my life in the fear of the Lord and Jesus told us that the unforgivable sin was the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Attributing to Satan what was in fact a work of God. If pressed as to whether or not the Toronto blessing is all God or all Devil I will still be hedgy, but I am convinced that Satan has used this experience to blind people to the historical doctrines of God, to produce fruit in keeping with repentance, to failing to test and discern the spirits and failing to test prophecy.
After three years of being in the thick of the Toronto blessing our Vineyard assembly in Scarborough ( East Toronto) just about self destructed. We devoured one another, with gossip, backstabbing, division, sects criticism etc. After three years of ‘soaking,’ praying for people, shaking, rolling, laughing, roaring, ministering at TACF on their prayer team, leading worship at TACF, preaching at TACF, basically living at TACF we were the most carnal, immature and deceived Christians that I know. I remember saying to my friend and senior pastor at Scarborough Vineyard Church in 1997 that ever since the Toronto Blessing came we have just about fallen to bits! He agreed!
My experience has been that the manifestation of spiritual gifts mentioned in 1st Corinthians 12 was much more common in our assembly, before January 1994 (when the Toronto blessing started.) than during this period of supposed Holy Spirit visitation.
During 1992-1993 when praying for people we would experience what I believe was genuine prophesy, deliverance and much grace and favour from the Lord. After the Toronto Blessing started, all ministry time changed, the only prayers were ‘More Lord MORE ’, the shouting of ‘Fire’ the jerky shaking of the body with the ‘ooh ooh OOH WOOOAAH’ prayer. (I kid you not!)
On January 20th 1994 about 15 people from our church traveled over to Toronto Airport Vineyard in order to listen to Randy Clark, a Vineyard pastor from the USA. John Arnott had called our senior pastor to invite us. He communicated that Randy had been to the Rodney Howard Browne meetings and that the stuff had broke out in his church in the following weeks. John was hoping that something might break out with us too. We were only too happy to travel over. We were a church plant out of the Toronto Airport and we started in 1992. In those days there were three Vineyard Churches in Toronto. One Down Town church, Scarborough vineyard church to the east and the Airport Church. We were one big happy family. Because we were small in number we did special meetings, conferences etc, together.
The year before most of our leadership teams joined and had headed to Nicaragua for a short term missions trip. We had genuine love and fellowship with each other. Since leaving the Vineyard churches I have read a fair bit of analysis from the critics. Some make out that the Toronto Blessing was one huge conspiracy to lead the body of Christ into heresy. Heresy and apostasy I suspect may well be the result, but none of these destinations were intentional. I am honestly convinced that the leaders in the Vineyard churches are genuine born-again Christians who love the Lord, but have fallen into deception. They have not loved the Lord enough to keep His commandments. They have failed to obey the scriptures and have been led astray by our longing for something bigger and brighter and more exciting and dynamic. I am guilty of this sin also. I have preached renewal in Korea, the United Kingdom, the USA and here in Canada. I am genuinely repentant and in writing this story I would ask you the bride and body of Christ to forgive me. Especially the Pentecostal / Charismatic Christians among you, for you are my immediate family theologically. I am an evangelical Christian, I always have been but I do not believe in the cessation of the spiritual gifts at the end of the apostolic era. I believe that it was my evangelical roots (my family are Baptists and I was born again in the Presbyterian Church.) that started to open my eyes to problems with this so called renewal. In hind sight I look back and think how could I have been so blind? I laughed at people acting like dogs and pretending to urinate on the columns of the TACF building. I watched people pretend to be animals, bark, roar, cluck, pretend to fly as if they had wings, perpetually act drunk and sing silly songs. How I thought that any of this was from the Holy Spirit of God amazes me today. It was loud irreverent and blasphemous to the Holy God of the Bible. I suppose in my mind I reasoned that as long as they did not teach any thing in direct violation to scripture then it was what we called the exotic. This is a buzz word for manifestations that could not be justified from a biblical perspective. I was taught from the pulpit that we had two options. The order of the nursery full of life and messy or the order of the graveyard, very orderly but dead! As a young immature pastor I wanted life with mess. I failed to remember that God wants us to become mature and grow up in him. I became disconcerted by the prophetic words that came forth especially one by Carol Arnott in which she had her bride experience where she was taken into the very presence of Jesus and said that the love that she experienced was even better than sex! I was shocked in my spirit and thought how can one compare the love of God with sex? When we suspected that demons were running riot in our services John Arnott would teach that we should ask are they coming or going. If they are leaving then that is ok! John would defend the chaos by saying that we ought not be afraid of being deceived, if we have asked the Holy Spirit to come and fill us then how could Satan come and deceive us? This would make Satan very strong and God very weak! He said that we needed to have more faith in a Big God to protect us than in a Big Devil to deceive us. This sounded very convincing but was totally contrary to scripture for Jesus and Paul and Peter and John all warn us about the power of deceiving spirits and especially so in the last days. Again we did not love God enough to obey His Word and the result was that we opened ourselves up to lying spirits. May God have mercy upon us!
Finally the penny dropped for me as I was rolling around one night ‘drunk in the Spirit’ as we would say. I started singing and as I rolled around the floor the Nursery Rhyme ‘Mary had a little lamb its fleece was white as snow.’ came to mind. I sang this in a mocking spirit and instantly my heart told me this was a demon. Instantly I repented and was in total shock. How could a demon get into me? Did I not love God? Was I not zealous for the things of God? Was I not nuts about Jesus? I knew that an unclean spirit had just manifested through me and I was guilty of great sin. After this experience I stayed away from TACF. I did not go back there any more. I did not possess the conviction to denounce the whole experience but thought that we where failing to pastor the Blessing well enough.
Even after I stopped going over to TACF, I had to pastor the fruit of it. One example was when some of our people returned from a meeting there asking us if we had all received the golden sword of the Lord? I asked them what they were talking about thinking that it was some prophetic reference to the Holy Scriptures but they said, ‘no, its not the Bible, it’s an invisible golden sword that only the really pure can receive. If taken in an unrighteous fashion then the Lord would kill you. But if you are holy enough to receive it then you can wield this sword and it will heal aids, Cancer etc. and bring salvation. How one wielded this sword was by pretending to have this invisible sword in your hand and motioning to strike people with it when in prayer! I thought while even in deception at this time that the TACF had become Looney bins! This was purportedly first received by Carol Arnott and then given to the ones holy enough to receive it! Another thing was the golden fillings in the teeth. We had people in our assembly peeping down one another’s throats looking for the gold fillings that God had placed there to show how much he loved them! In all my time there I only heard one message on repentance given by a visiting speaker from Hong Kong named Jackie Pullinger. It went over like a lead balloon. We were not there to repent, we were there to party in the Lord! After one year into the blessing I spoke out at a pastors meeting and said ‘guys we have shaken, rattled, rolled, laughed cried and bought the tee-shirt. But we have no revival, no salvation, no fruit and no increased evangelism so what’s the deal?’ I was soundly rebuked - who was I to expect to see fruit when the Lord was healing his broken people? We had been legalistic long enough and God was spending this time restoring his wounded and freeing us from legalism I was told not to push the Lord and the harvest would come in his time.’
I knew this was wrong because the Lord had commanded us to go into all the earth and make disciples! Not, that everyone should take a sabbatical for who knows how long, while God does some strange new thing! Ultimately I left over something as controversial as the ordination of women. Personally I believe from scripture that women should not be pastors/ elders in a local assembly. I could be wrong on this and there is much debate in the Church today but that is my conviction and in the Vineyard churches they were ordaining all the pastors wives to co pastor with them. I am certainly for women in ministry but believe that the Elder/ pastor role in a local assembly has been reserved for men. I did not write scripture but God willing I will have the grace from now on to obey it.
So there is my story. I could go on and document much excess, folly, sin and latter day reign teaching that manifest from the prophetic end of this Blessing but others have already done that. We sang about Joel’s army and the billion soul revival as if it were one of the Ten Commandments, and as always it was just around the corner. Next month, next year etc. Jesus said that when the son of man returns will he find faith upon the earth? And if he does not return when he does no flesh would be saved but for the sake of the elect he comes. This is a far cry from the dominionism that is being taught all through the vineyard / prophetic/ spiritual warfare movement. I honestly think that they think they are going to take over the whole world! While in the Vineyard I embraced a life verse from the Apostle Paul the phrase do not go beyond what is written!
To finish I just want to say sorry for the damage, that I have personally done by teaching things that are not correct biblically. I repent before men as I already have before God. I will not excuse my falling into deception. I did not bother to test things when the scriptures commanded us to do so. Everyone who was there when this thing started knows that what I write is true, they would just come to different conclusions especially if they are still promoting the ‘river!’
To those in the river I would say swim out, there are things living in the water that will bite you real good! I love the people of TACF and the Vineyard movement but I think that we have much to answer for and may the Lord open your eyes sooner rather than later. I suspect that when this letter goes online I will get bombarded by emails from both camps, some damning me for still believing in the ministry of the Holy Spirit and still walking in deception and some old friends damning me for exposing dirt or being negative about the Lords anointed! Well, the Lord knows my heart and by his grace he will guide me into all truth as I seek to know Christ and him crucified! If you believe that I walk in sin and error please pray for me that the Lord would forgive me and open my eyes. I will study the word to show my self a work man approved! I would call on all who read this to pray that the Lord would open the eyes of all who have been involved in this deception. Whether leader or follower, we are loved and the Lord is a forgiving God. He says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. I believe we are like the church in Laodicea, we think that we are rich, have prospered and need nothing, we do not realise that we are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind and naked. We must take the Counsel of Jesus and buy gold refined in the fire (which is his suffering, not a false spirit!), white garments to clothe our shameful nakedness and salve for our eyes that we might see again. Jesus is calling us to repentance and thank the Lord that he is, for it will lead us to true restoration with our Father! If God has forgiven me and opened my eyes then he can do it for all those caught in deception too. I will finish with a warning from Paul, he says if you think you are standing firm be careful lest you fall.
Sincerely Paul Gowdy.”
From R M Frankin - I have privately repented with God, but I do publically repent and state that I also allowed myself to be decieved by the ‘Tornonto Blessing’ EVEN THOUGH GOD WARNED ME AT THE TIME IT WAS NOT OF HIM.* I did not listen as I did not understand (or perhaps want to understand, I was proud and preferred to go by human understanding and believe ministers I loved and respected who accepted it/thought it was OK rather than discern it properly for myself.) I became a Toronto junkie and went from meeting to meeting for ‘more’. Worse still I was involved in a well known missions organisation at the time so daily we would be rolling around in the murky false anointing oil so I got far more ahem ‘blessing’ than average. The missions trips became Toronto meetings and not gospel presentations instead with some whacky spiritual warfare thrown in - what heresy! And I became blind to it,…so desperate for ‘more’..it was all complete and utter junk, a hoax, that kept us away from the real thing…presenting the gospel. And the Brownsville revival etc? What revival?! I see no revival. Revival is the gospel preached and souls saved not people roaring like lions and splitting churches.
*How did God warn me you may ask? God showed me at the time a vision of Satan laughing at all this - Satan was behind Toronto. I saw this clearly and unmistakeably, How I wish I listened to God properly. And the fruit has been bad and bitter - thank God that God is bigger than Toronto’s bad fruit though. It was only years later that I realised this, so hoodwinked was I at the time.
I was led to this website posting and just wanted to let you know that my marriage of 28 years was destroyed by this “charismatic” renewal. I was wanting to know just how many other marriages were destroyed by one of the other spouses testing and discerning the spirits and finding them false, while the other spouse was drawn deeper and deeper into the stantic deception?
I am sure you are not the only one. It is tragic….
I was led to this website posting also, I want to Know if any of you guys have heard of Mike Bickle, Lou Engle, Bob Perry, International House of Prayer 24/7 prayer started out of the 1727 Moravian Pentecost. On Sept 19, 1999 The IHOP was started based on the Moravian movement. The house of prayer is supposed to be around the clock praise and prayer, for the cleansing if the city,etc. The prayer rooms consist of Israel Mandate, healing rooms, prophetic rooms, Dreams and visions rooms, global bridegroom fast. etc.
Mike Bickle is the Director of the International House of Prayer in Kansas City, Missouri, a twenty-four hour a day ministry of “Worship with Intercession” in the spirit of the Tabernacle of David. The prayer room has continued non-stop in intercession and worship since September 19, 1999. Currently, over 400 people serve full-time on the IHOP–KC staff. Mike Bickle is also the President of the Forerunner School of Ministry, a full-time Bible school in Kansas City. He has authored several books including Passion for Jesus, Growing in the Prophetic, The Pleasures of Loving God, After God’s Own Heart, The Rewards of Fasting: Experiencing the Emotions and Power of God, and The Seven Longings of the Heart. Mike’s teaching emphasizes how to grow in passion for Jesus through intimacy with God.
Do you have any information… is this sound biblically, I do not want to be deceived and end up like you guys were describing above.
There is a ground breaking Nashville House of Prayer launching in Nashville, TN where I live.
Your thoughts and prayers are coveted. Thank you, ddavis
Yes I have heard of them. These people are Latter Rain influenced and are thus not sound biblically. Please read my posts on Patricia King et al as her associates are Mike Bickle’s associates too. Mike Bickle is also very influenced by what was known as the Kansas City Prophets which has now merged into C Peter Wagner’s heretical New Apostolic Reformation and his neo-gnostic prophetic round table. There is a lot of deception in these movements. I would go so far as to say it is antichrist. Do not get involved with them to any degree as I do not think any good can come of it.
http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2007/08/14/patricia-king-extreme-prophetic-bob-jones-rick-joyner-kansas-city-prophets/
God bless you as you seek to serve Him faithfully.
I went to a church were womans wanted to become prophets and I saw strange dancing and people throwing up and they said that they had evil spirits the Pastor was married for the third time and at certian Sunday the woman had to wear white and other time they wore black I got into the Bible and I read about false prophets and I read that a leader should only have one wife. I got out of the Church real fast,I agree with you about the pastor should be a man and not a woman I hate title myself I ran from that Chruch I hated the control from the Pastor you had to ask his permission when you whated to visit another Church I ran and Got into the word the Bible and I too ask God to forgive me. Now I don’t trust just anyone so I stay in the Word of God and by the way the name of the Chruch was the Vineyard here in Cleveland Ohio.
Millie
Millie: to clarify, there is nothing in itself wrong with women being prophets if that is what God has called them to be. There are many female prophetesses mentioned by name in the Bible.
You are right, I am truly sorry if I offended anyone. I must say that when I went to the Vineyard I did meet some God-fearing women that are gifted, and sanctified, and are being use by God as true women of God. I felt the love from the people and I love them I should have never ran. I should have been honest about the way that I felt, and gone to the pastor, and tell him about strange dancing and people throwing up and some other things that I saw. The pastor wanted us to go to this prophetic teaching on how to become prophets, and when I saw the things that took place, I knew that I had to get out. It is not fair for me to say that this took place at the Vineyard it all happen at another church that the pastor sent us too. Millie
Millie: you did not offend me, I was just clarifying something about women in general, not necessarily the specific women in the Vineyard you met who I do not know.
You are perfectly able to have your own opinion about your experiences and to express these here. If something made you feel bad about this church and it was as you say it was, you were right to run
I don’ claim to have all the answer however, and I am not claiming to be a Bible scholar. Nevertheless, by the Gracie of God who shed his blood for you and me. I know that the word of God say to test the spirits to me that does not mean that I am Judging any one but, that I am applying God word in order for me not to be deceive.
John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God, because many false prophets are gone out into the world 1st John 4:1
Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Millie: you are right to do this. Keep on doing it continuously and may God bless you as you seek to love him and obey him.
Please try to separate your relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ and the church. It is only you who chose to go after manifestations,so don’t blame others . You have to answer to God for your actions and intent of your heart. Don’t assume everyone should stay away from the TACF and the like . Perhaps they are able to keep their eyes on Jesus and seek after him only…and not some look at me I’m weird attention getting ,I feel important act. All I want to say is , learn from your mistake and stop criticizing others.
Rosa: I have blamed nobody but myself for getting involved in Toronto type stuff and I have publically admitted this. I also said that I should not have listened to, or trusted others ‘discernment’ on this, I should have gone with what I was told initially by God.
I have learned from this.
What have I learned? That I was wrong and should have listened to and trusted God and not gone by my understanding or other people’s recommendation? yes. The need for testing everything? yes. That I cannot trust any leader to make decisions of discernment for me? yes. The reality and prevalence of the counterfeit in the church? yes. The lack of love for or upholding of scripture in the Vineyard and many other Charismatic/Pentecostal circles? yes. ‘Another Jesus spirits’ being around? yes. That these manifestations have brought bad fruit? yes. How powerful delusion can be and how easy it is to be swept up in it? yes.
What else have I learned? This move was not from God. So I have learned from it and I will warn others who have been likewise led astray what I have learned. I am not going to advise anybody to go into something that I know is false - would you?
At the time, I was not after attention or any prizes for being whacko or wierd, I was just after ‘more’ of God. I was led to believe this was the way to get it. I know many of my dearest Christian friends and colleagues got caught up in this too. Many still are. A minority (that I am aware of) have discerned and got out of it. It is very persuasive and also addictive. I only discerned when I actually stopped to ask God about it a long time afterwards. He would have told me from the begining if I had but listened. Oh yeah, that’s right, he did! I thought I must have heard wrong cos my pastor said it was great!
I am glad that you learned from your mistake . I would suggest if I may that you use your time and energy now to stay in close relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ. Spend time with Him . You can trust Him not to deceive you. The Lord who warned you will warn others if they are going astray, if they will listen is only up to them. I don’t believe the Lord wants us to criticize his sheep. Anyway may the Lord bless you and keep you in all your ways.
Rosa: have you never heard of watchmen? Or the idea of responsibility to others? Warning somebody is completely differant to criticising!
>The Lord who warned you will warn others if they are going astray
If that idea held true, then why even bother evangelise, pastor or anything else? Why even have prophets? Let God do all the work!
Yes God can warn others, but ever thought he is warning others through people like me and Paul Gowdy opening our mouths?!
Thank God for watchmen or a lot of us would be lead astray or not know when we already are.
I was just wondering if anyone has anything to say from the Lord about Heidi Baker.
I had a dream about her that was NOT good. I believe the dream was from God.
Part of me doesn’t want to believe the dream though. However, I know she has been involved with Toronto, gold fillings, gems etc. So maybe that is my answer right there.
The line between truth and falsehood is a fine one. Sometimes it’s hard to say when someone has officially crossed it.
I have realised that what one could not have got away with 10 or 15 years ago in mainstream churches, one can today. I have been shocked by how quickly this has happened, It is like the Satanic Toronto ‘Blessing’ with its bad fruit has twisted peoples’ minds and discernment and ability to speak out over the years. Now I regularly hear from even traditional evangelical camps: ‘But it must be from God because I felt so blessed’ or ‘It must be from God because he heals/there are signs and wonders etc’. whereas pre 1994 they would have checked it out against the word of God and accepted it was wrong despite their feelings or the signs.
‘The Toronto Blessing’ has been a conditioning of the church towards accepting something much bigger coming soon, I feel. As I have said before, the church is prepped, cue, enter the Antichrist.
Krystal: I have not heard of Heidi Baker so cannot really comment. Who is she? I would be interested to hear your dream anyway?
Krystal,
You are so right that what is going on today would not have been able to happen 10-15 yrs ago in the church. On another blog I wrote about a spiritualist conference some of my Christian friends and I went to about 20 years ago in order to talk to some of the novice seekers there to see if they would be open to the gospel. A woman we talked to had been told by some spiritualists that Adam (after the Fall) had gone back to Satan in the garden of eden ad thanked him for showing him that he had both good and evil in him. She said they taught her that we need both good and evil in us to be balanced (Ying and Yang I guess) Jesus and Satan being like brothers.
That thinking could be expected from spiritualists. And you get what you ask for when you go to a spiritualist conference. But now that mixing of good and evil is now in the church. Though they don’t see it that way. They think Toronto type manifestations are naturally a sign of the Holy Spirit moving there but its anything but a holy spirit.
So Satan’s demons have infiltrated the church and many are too deceived by these false signs,wonders, and manifestations to see it.
May I make a comment on watchmen? When I asked the person who was mentoring me in the 1980’s, why I needed him, a prophet, to relate what God had to say to me. He wisely replied “If someone will not or is unable to listen to God directly, then He uses someone to speak on His behalf.” He later added that people in tune with the Holy Spirit hear and see what others less tuned in, do not. He said some people may take days, weeks, months or years, to realise what God has said to them. At that time he said he estimated that I was about 3 months slow in grasping what God said or showed me. I kicked at that in disbelief, but he proved to be right. He told me things which 3 months later became a reality in my life. I learned to respect this man’s wisdom, but at the same time still had to learn to trust him relatively and God absolutely.
Heidi Baker and her husband Roland (I find it strange that she always gets top billing) run an organization that is much like an orphanage in Africa. Heidi, as of late, has fallen in with the “spiritual soaking” crowd. There are videos on the internet of her writhing on the floor and moaning and asking God to “please don’t do this”. I used to have the link, but it was so disturbing, I deleted it. I’m sure it’s out there somewhere. I don’t recommend it.
I came across this website through a link from something else I was looking at. I am quite amazed by some of the critical comments. Our church was affected by something of the Toronto influence in 1994 - the following months saw our prayer meetings double in numbers and a significant number of people come to faith in Christ. Sure there were some excesses here and there but you can’t dismiss the whole thing because of that. If you take that logic you’d dismiss every denomination of church!
Re Heidi Baker - she and her ministry have planted hundreds of churches and are busy feeding the hungry, healing the sick and preaching good news to thousands - sounds like what the church should be doing!
Steven Anderson: I have never dismissed the whole thing because of its excesses. I have dismissed it because of the true spirit behind it which is differant.
I am not saying that everything that went on in Tornonto-esque meetings was wrong. God is still God and can use anything for his glory. The ‘beauty’ of heresy is there is often a lot of truth in there mixed in with the lies. You are right when you say that a lot of people started coming to church at the time (many to gawk), although most rapidly fell away as did many long standing church members fall through the bad fruit that seeped in over time in their lives. Fruit over time has been disillusionment, church splits, falling away, sin, deception, heresy and church shrinkage. I would debate with you also how many really came to true faith in Christ during that time. Most of it was about Christians getting blessed aka manifesting. Furthermore the prayer meetings turned from real prayer to self-centred top up sessions with praying for ‘more’ - that is jerks, roars and twitchings and weird prophecy and interpretation of scriptures. All this self centred stuff kept the church away from doing it what it should have been doing: real prayer, evangelism and preaching the true word of God. The so-called revivals were never revivals, they were Christians coming from far and wide to hotspots like Toronto and Sunderland to manifest.
I do not know anything about Heidi Baker apart from what Cheryl has posted. BUT I would say in general that the Mormon Church have planted hundreds of churches, as have the JWS, and many like them go about doing good works - does this make them right?
Sai Baba apparently heals the sick. Shall we then accept him as the Messiah?
Heidi Baker, If there is anyone who has good fruit it is Heidi and Rolland Baker. They have given themselves over to the Lord in a way few people have ever dreamed of doing. We need more like them to show us what it is to be totally sold out for and in Love with Jesus. You can understand and be an expert on all the doctrine in the world…if you don’t have the goods…the fruit in your life you are nothing. The Bakers are pioneers and faithful to God in ways I hope I will tap into. You try feeding thousands of starving people on faith…or raising the dead, or praying for the blind and deaf and watch them see and hear…then I will pay attention to you.
Howard Browne founded of The Toronto blessing and he told God:
…”‘Either You come down here and touch me, or I will come up there and touch You,’ he prayed in desperation. Suddenly, his whole body felt like it was on fire. He began to laugh uncontrollably. Then he wept and began to speak in tongues. ‘I was plugged into heaven’s electrical supply,’ he later wrote in his book, The Touch of God. ‘And since then my desire has been to go and plug other people in’” (Julia Dulin, “Praise the Lord and Pass the New Wine,” 8/94, Charisma, p. 22)….
Search:
Holy Laughter - Rodney Howard-Browne and the Toronto Blessing
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/holylaugh.htm
I believe Rodney was acting the same as the Babylonians and was going up to touch God.
Also kenneth Hagin folowed this holy laughter.
I followed the faith message for 30 years and could not focus on it’s error. God revealed the source of it’s error and the source is rejecting the cross.
God Bless
Kenneth
Kenneth Hagin of the faith movement says the cross is defeat.
Kenneth Hagin False Prophet/Teacher
http://www.forgottenword.org/hagin.html
…”The trouble with us is that we’ve preached a ‘cross’ religion, and we need to preach a ‘throne’ religion. By that I mean that people have thought they were supposed to remain at the cross. Some have received the baptism in the Holy Spirit, have backed up to the cross, and have stayed there ever since…The cross is actually a place of defeat, whereas the Resurrection is a place of triumph. When you preach the cross, you’re preaching death, and you leave people in death.” (Ken Hagin, “The Believer’s Authority,” page 16. Second Edition 1986)…
An discussion I had on an christian forum:
The cross is is a place where we die with Christ then we can live the resurected life daily. But without dieing daily or as Jesus said deny ourself daily we cannot live the resurected life. Denying ourself daily is our cross and then Jesus can live in us an we have the resurected life. Denying the cross as Kenneth Hagin did allowed a resurcted life for Kenneth Hagin but not a Godly resurected life but a false resurected life filled with the deception of satan.
Discussion in a Christian forum:
>>The Cross is not a Christian’s focus;>>
Not according to Jesus and Paul and many scriptures about the cross as being the power of God, being only what Paul will hear of, being the only salvation, life, love …Etc a christian will know of.
1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God
1Co 2:2For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
Mt 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me
1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
>> it is not anything but a symbol for the true purpose behind it.>>
True. When Paul talks about the cross and being crucified with Jesus he is not talking about the two trees that make the physical cross. He is talking about the selflessness suffering Jesus done for all the life virtues mentioned above. The true purpose of the cross.
Ga 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
>> Today, it is a metaphor for the Resurrection, >>
The resurection is a result of the power of the cross.
>>just as Paul relates it back then. >>
I know of no scripture that refers to this.
>>If you’d stop your worship of it for awhile,>>
If you call worshiping the selflessness Love Jesus has for us by suffering you also better blame Paul for doing the same.
Php 3:18 For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
There is life in the cross. Do you know scripture that says there is life in the resurection?
2Co 13:4 For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you
Ga 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Paul golried only in the cross:
Ga 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
Ken
Thanks for your time and reviewing my thoughts with insight you have. We must all be aware of the truth. I will say I wonder if Kenneth was teaching another gospel because of his focus.
To speak further on the concern. Apostle Peter may have had the same concern as Kenneth. The Apostle turned from an error. The error of rejecting the cross. Jesus showed the Apostle that satan was involved and talked to satan. This deceptive spirit can even influence one of the greatest man of God.
The way satan removes Christians from God’s will is by deceptive forces and this is the major deceptive force Paul talks about. The force of rejecting the cross. The power of the cross is the singular means where all Christian life can be guided by the Holy spirit and of course the resurrection must also be preached. But without the cross there will be no resurrection of Christ or Christians cannot also live the resurrected life.
This is satans way of placing Christians on the sideline by removing teaching of the cross. And of course the cross is a result of the true cross of Christ. Jesus cross was Him giving of Himself unto death. And He ask us to give of our self. This is our cross the same in spirit as Jesus cross. Once we give of our self then the Holy spirit can live in us.
But placing the cross as not a finished work removes the only God power mentioned in scripture. The power of the cross. Once the cross is rejected then there is a substitute power to deceive Christians and this is satans power.
1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God
Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
The power of his resurection is the power of the cross.
The power of the Holy Spirit is a result of the cross not the resurection as scripture shows. We must keep focus exactly what scripture says and not place the resurection where it does not belong as according to scripture. The resurection is only proof of the finished work of Jesus.
I have experienced alot of good things while attending TACF. I grew deeper in my relationship with God, and nothing there was Satanic in nature. Holy Laughter is simply God’s presence overflowing into joy. Luke says Jesus rejoiced greatly in the Holy Spirit. The main thing is to stay humble and obedient to God with your life. Don’t make a move of God your idol. I thank God for TACF.
Dear Brothers and Sisters,
I am familar with TACF. I have attended a number of times over the years. I have heard sound bibilical teaching there. I have enjoyed worshipping God there. Yes, there are some weird manifestations there, which I was was asking God about. Until the Lord returns, there will be always something imperfect in any group of believers because we are all under construction! It is our responsibility when we go to church to seek the true God with a hungry heart. The Holy Spirit will then meet us. We are all at different places of maturity.
I used to be a critic of some television preachers, until the Lord rebuked me. Jesus is the head of the church. We are told to love each other. I give all things I don’t understand to God. We should pray for those that seem to be in error. By all means, study and interceed. I have experienced that sometimes we discern error and sometimes we will discern error in us. Be careful not to be out of love with others who call themselves believers.
I hope these comments are helpful…Ziggy-Northern Ontario
12-29-07
Saturday Evening
Dear endtimepropheticwords,
Greetings to one and all. The Lord led me to this site by way of “The Age To Come” blog. I had never before heard of your ministry and site. I really don’t know anything about blogs, but I am fascinated by them. I’m ready to learn all, that I can.
At the moment I am left speechless in many ways, and without a comment about the site content, except for the fact, that the comments and the responses have been very interesting.
Many of the names mentioned here are very familiar to me. I will step out, at this time, and say this much. I have gone to some of these ministries and been in their meetings. I have friends, who are a part of some of these ministries mentioned. I also have family and other friends, who have followed some of theses ministries. That is to say, either watched them on tv, or listened to their tapes and read their materials, or attended their conferences.
I’m not going to tell you at this time, what I thought, as I was reading the entire blog including comments and responses, because for one thing, most of the blog touches on a very large part of my spiritual and personal family life.
I’m just going to take this blog under advisement of the Holy Spirit of God. He is our teacher. Anything worth knowing, we learn from Him. He knows the Truth. And He will choose a way to reveal the Truth to me, to all of us.
We all know “Prayer Changes Things”. So-o-o, I’m going to pray before I say…anything else.
I will venture out this far and say, it would be wonderful for all of us, if what you have posted here is wrong.
However, though what has been said here is shocking, I am not surprised. I have already gone through similar exposures of ministries, that I thoroughly trusted and relied on. It was hard to believe, that they could be deceiving me and others. To finally let them go was a hard and hurtful process. It’s devastating.
To be sure, this IS a very sober and serious problem, that must be addressed, as soon as it is dicovered, and not shoved under the rug for a later day.
A verse I have always loved comes to mind now. You may find it appropriate here.
Joshua 24:15…”And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell; BUT AS FOR ME AND MY HOUSE, WE WILL SERVE THE LORD.
We have a free will. Let us exercise it to choose rightly.
I have enjoyed spending time with all of you fellow-Christian-bloggers out there.
In God’s Triumphant Love,
Judith L. Harless
I believe with everything God does. Satan, our arch enemy and the enemy of our souls has his counterfiet.
I too have had some dealings with the Toronto vineyard phenomena. When I used to live in the UK, it hit our church there, and some of the leadership..went down as a party to investigate, returning with all sorts of stories of how much they have been changed and brought back New Wine to share. And upon releasing it to the flock. A mixed reactions. People drunk and growling, and roaring and laughing etc. Testimonies etc. But you know over a period of time, those that had ‘good roots’. Stayed firm with the Lord. Those that were not ROOTED and grounded in the True vine and His Word. Returned to their old ways. And stopped coming as they used to. Personally, experiences come and go. The thing that keeps us rooted and firm and steadfast and grounded is the Word of God. Spending time in His word. The bible. Getting to Know Jesus on a one to one relationship. Cause this stands the test of time. Also tunes in discernment cause the Truth will recognise truth. The Spirit and the Word of God will bear witness. To what is of Him and what isnt.
However, to the point now. Laughter. I dont rule it out as satanic. I have come to recognise and I see a passage to back my claim in the word of God. There is a counterfiet laughter. For what purpose is it for? If its to make you feel good and thats it. Draw attention that you have been touched by God. etc? That to me, is counterfeit. Cause it is showing off. Pride. etc. been there, wore that tee shirt. etc. That counterfeit laughter leaves a restless irritation in one’s spirit, almost like you taking your fingernails and scraping a black board down its centre. Horrible sound. Forgive me if I rant a bit on here. I say this sincerely and humbly.
Yet there is another laughter. Our Father sits on high and laughs. Sarah the wife of Abraham laughed a laugh of satisfaction. Prayer answered.Laughter of God blessing her with a child. A laughter of joy. Genesis21:6 (this is my main verse I back my claim on)
Psalm2;4, Psalm52:6,
There is a true holy laughter. Its a laughter of Victory. As a result of intercession. Prayer breakthrough. And it has to come from out of our belly. Not our head. When one is given a prayer burden of need or standing in the gap for a nation, a brother or sister’s needs..or because the Lord has woken you up in the middle of the night with a nudge to PRAY! And by faith, you enter in…then there is the release o fthat burden of the Lord. That the prayer and warfare has broken through, there is a lightness. The spirit with the Lord spirit witness’s that IT IS FINISHED. It is done. I have found that is when, out of praising God as a result..the laughter and its not a cackling. its not a shrill laughter. Its like, YOU KNOW THAT YOU KNOW..prayer is answered. No need to pray through anymore on this. God has already done it and it is a matter of time for its manifestation into the natural. I only know what I have shared here. There maybe more some others may experience on this.
The above experience is not an everyday thing that can be switched on or off at will. My knowledge of it is limited.
yet so far, always always, 10 times out of 10. Only connected in prayer and intercession prompted by the Lord, I have seen and experienced this kind of laughter. Always always resulting in hands up in the air giving Him thanks ..you just see in the that prayer is answered. And almost all of the time, its usually when its praying for others situations, and needs and wants and not my own. hope this helps. blessings
I agree, there is a laughter that comes from the belly, a Holy Spirit filled laughter. I have experienced it once in my life and I was not in a church environment nor was there a false spirit in the midst. My husband and I went to someone we knew who could help me with deliverance. (To explain why I needed deliverance I would have to explain my life testemony which is another story.) Anyhow the presence of God was immense and I was delivered. Afterwards I started to laugh; this laugh came from my stomach, it was a God glorifying laugh in that I laughed in utter joy that I had been delivered. The laugh that came from me was a laugh of VICTORY, JOY and PRAISE to God that He had set me free. I laughed for about +/- 15 seconds, it wasn’t an on going thing. And in contrast to these ‘laughing movements’ I had reason to laugh.
The laughter that people are experiencing today is counterfit and there is NO point to this laughter. In other words nothing significant has happened in these people’s lives prior to them laughing. This laughter stems from seeking entertainment or seeking experiences therefore they find a false spirit to fullfil their curiosity. They seek the manifestation in order to feel joy and be changed - instead of seeking God directly for their joy and seeking God directly to make a change in their lives.
See also
http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/01/22/no-evangelism-no-real-anointing/
Having been in deliverance, I was dismayed at what I saw of the Toronto Blessing in my church. I saw some truly being visited by the Holy Spirit. However, I also saw some manifesting of demons openly. Then there were some who were faking it, to be seen by man as spiritual.
I remember one man in particular. He was always the first to begin laughing loudly, then it would spread thru the church. I was also on the ministry team to pray for thise who came to the altar for such. This same man came to me for prayer. I told him he was faking his laughing…so he started laughing. I told him to stop, and it took a few times before he did. Then he told me he does it so those who follow him would be encouraged to follow suit. He wanted them to think he was spiritual so he could lead them to be spiritual. Sad.
And the leadership thought all that was going on was of God, not recognizing even the open demon manifestations.
So what are you saying???
Are you saying we are deceived If we are embracing god’s presence?
Read my mini testimony below…
I KNOW IT IS GOD!
God would not give me a stone if I ask for bread or for fish! He loves me He would not do that!
As a matter of fact I pray all the tiome Lord keep me from being deceived and keep me open to change. I do not want to be going straight ahead and find that god has turned a corner and miss it. CHANGE IS HARD!
It says the Holy Spirit “FELL ON THEM!”
Personally in my own life just as an example…
I have seen much fruit from the Toronto Blessing!
I myself have been miraculously healed!
It was not through manifestations but by simply soaking in God’s presence everyday sometimes for several hours.
I did not instigate this GOD DID!
I would have rather watched a movie and or go soemwhere but He fell on me with His awesome presence.
This happened in 1992 and 1993 before the Toronto Blessing as I was praying and saying come Holy Spirit!
I did not want to move I cannot explain it . I had however been praying Lord give me the ability to receive all you have for me I prayed that for 3 years and thsi started happening about the time my father was dying.
Then in 1994 it started happening to everyone!
I do not want to quench it ever.
I did that once because I feared mans opinion.
I choose not to do it agaion even if I look like a fool!Even iof people gossip and talk about me.
It is bt far a blessing and NOT Satanic.
I used to be a people pleaser and was so afraid of what people might think I went along with the crownd.
I no longer do that. God broke off fear of man off of me.
He said he wants to be my affirmation.
I think in our Western culture we try to analize things way too much!
I have seen the gold dust the diamond dust the gold teeth and I have oine gold filling. My hair had a white streak from an accident and we watched the color change right before our eyes at a David Herzog meeting held at my church.
I thought I must be mistaken so I went to my husband to see if I was right and he said he saw it change color and showed it to our pastor also.
I have seen money multiply . Others saw it also. I am still being healed and my soin who was also born crippled is being healed.
I have been miraculously healed how can you say it is satan!”"”
Saran would not give glory to God!
I live in the inner city and the only thing that gets me through the day at times is God’s awesome presence!
I know that no matter how much gunfire is around me that I serve a true living God who is much bigger
A GOD WHO LOVES ME AND WHO WILL PROTECT ME FROM ALL EVIL!
&will protect me from harm.
He is interesteed in every aspect of my life.
He never sleeps and He loves me very very much!
Before the blessing of Toronto I was afraid all of the time,
The scriptures say ….perfect love casts out ALL fear….
He truly has proved himself to me to be a loving God.
I was fulkl of fewar now He has made me full of faith. Perhaps many people have not shared their stories of how God has changed their lives through the blessing.
I gave gone on several mission trips in the natural I would not have done that!
God out His heart in me for the people.
I tell people daily as opportunity arises how I was born crippled and how at age 50 God healed my feet in 2 hours.
I am now 58 and still healed and telling the whole world just like the man at gate Beautiful in the Bible who was lame i am walking and leaping(or trying to leap anyway leapoing is haeder at age 58…..lol) and praising God! Telling everyone because He told me to tell everyone!
I am being obedient.
I had the ‘reverse of club feet’ when i was born and was inand outof Shriner’s all of my child hood and part of my teen age years.
I could walk after many surgeries but limped and was always getting hurt.
In 2 hours I got arches in BOTH FEET!
By the end of the 1st week my shoe size changed and my toes straightened.
THIS IS ALL DOCUMENTED!
THE DOCTORS AT KAISER IN PORTLAND,OREGON I HAVE TOLD HAVE SAID IT IS IN THE MIRACLE CATEGORY AND ONE SAID CONGRATULATIONS GO GET MORE PRAYER! OTHER DOCTORS HAVE SHOOK THEIR HEADS AND SAID SOME THINGS WE JUST DO NOT UNDERSTAND!
Much more happened since then. I am so thankfuk” I praise God ” for healing me and tell all who will listen of His awesome Glory and how much He cares for all of us!
There is a very shorteend version of my testimony which has been recently been puvlished from our church in a book for evangelism purposes.
It is called WESTSIDE STORIES it tells 10 people’s stories in it.
I am the last one in the book. titled “deformed feet get healed” if you’d like to read it contact me at shairied@yahoo.com and I will tell you how to get a copy of it.
I go to a Vineyard Church in Oregon and it is available thpugh their web site.
God is so awesome!
TYPO it should,have said age 40 not 50
see below..I was healed at age 40…
~~~~~~~~~~~Typo~~~~~~~~~~~~
I was 50 when i was instantly healed and giben arches in 2 hours I tell people daily as opportunity arises how I was born crippled and how at age 50 God healed my feet in 2 hours.
I am now 58 and still healed and telling the whole world just like the man at gate Beautiful in the Bible who was lame I am walking and leaping(or trying to leap anyway leaping is harder at age 58…..lol) and praising God! Telling everyone because He told me to tell everyone!
I am being obedient.
Sherilou - the Bible says to test the spirits. It does not say miraculous things do not happen outside the kingdom of God, it says they do. If it were as simple as you say and deception was always as easy to spot (like many Christians naively take the verse out of context that God will not give them a bread for a stone) then the apostle John would not have entreated the church to test the spirits. There would have been no need to test the spritis for decieving ones if God would not allow decieving ones to be sent, would there? Think on this carefully. Christians who had even sat under Christ’s apostles, party to the first pentecost could be decieved. The New Testament shows the Corinthian church - manifesting the true spiritual gifts, I daresay more savvy than most folk in today’s church about spiritual matters - accepted false teaching though the ’super apostles’ without testing them first. People can be decieved and not know it for true counterfeits look good to them. But just as gold needs to be tested to see if it is Fools Gold or some other counterfeit, and fools gold etc will crumble on even brief examination so with spiritual counterfeits and false teaching - take them to the light of God through His word and they will crumble.
God gives us scripture, reason, watchmen, prophecy and discerning of spirits. Again why would a spiritual gift of discerning the spirits be necessary if only the Holy Spiirt operated in the church - there would nothing to discern between, would there, if there was only the good?
You really need to study your Bible better. Also a good study of church histories of deception and ‘revival’ would not go amiss - particularly the events that went on in Shakerism which are just like the manifestations of Toronto. The reason you will not hear about these ‘marvellous’ spiritual manifestations preached on by Toronto’s proponents was because the Shakers were an obvious cult who believed their founder, Ann Lee, to be a female dualist Christ, that you could only be saved through them and their leaders and confessing to them, their leaders would carry their sin, that all sex was evil and must be avoided to be saved, and they could become spiritually perfect, some even thought immortal, that Christ would return in THEM (or later it was taught in Ann Lee only) (this is very latter rain believing in the second coming in the church) - and there was a lot of other heresy, false prophecy too and silly activity such as communicating with the dead - at the latter stages Ann Lee and other leaders had to get drunk on rum to be in their religious ecstasies. Their same spirit is linked to much of what happened in the ‘Great Awakening’ though, as the undiscerning from New England became Shakers in their droves. They were led by the manifestations thinking it must be God, and were blinded to the actual teaching. This pattern sounds only too familiar. And there are direct links between Ann Lee and the French prophets (Camisards) - see my article on the same on this site because they had lots of amazing manifestations too - but were wrong.
So are you going to say Ann Lee and her followers could not be decieved because they loved God too? And are you going to say these ‘miracles’ and manifestations were God? They cannot have been as they testified to a false Christ and error and the Spirit of God does not testify to error. And if Ann Lee et al could get led astray by manifestations, why cannot you?
I think you need to be careful to not attribute to satan what God is doing. Jesus rebuked the pharasee’s for calling his acts of healing from Bealzabub. He said to them that a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. He was very angry that they would try to explain away the manifestations of healing and steal the joy of the miracle from those that were set free.
An excellent book for pentecostals to help you discern what is the Holy Spirit or counterfeit is War on the Saints the unabridged version by Jessie Penn Lewis written a long time before these current revivals. It is also online in full text. I recommend reading at least the Appendages at the end. It lists side by side the subtle differences of how the Holy Spirit operates and the counterfeit spirit(s) operate.
Of Azusa Street (early 1900s) it is written -
One of the three men…leading the meeting…was praying…kneeling upon an open Bible…He was almost beside himself with excitement, His arms waved and his body swayed. I thought…that he might be heard two blocks away. In this meeting there was barking like dogs, hooting like owls, and the like…After adjourning, one of the leaders remarked in my hearing ‘God had a wonderful hold on this meeting for a little while, didn’t He?’. (The same man then added) ‘God’s got a crowd ‘o folks here that’s willin’ to let him make fools of ‘em if he wants to.’ ” account of early Pentecostalism, by Shumway.
Bartleman said “It was also reported that the ‘jerks’ and ‘treeing the devil’ (that is, crawling on all fours and barking up a tree like a dog) were in evidence in the (Azusa) mission.”
Charles Parham saw hypnotists (occultists) practicing hypnotism at the altar. Later, he confessed that all the manifestations of Azusa was all of Satan, for he saw “hypnotic influences, familiar spirit influences, spiritualistic influences, mesmeric influences and all kinds of spells and spasms, falling in trances etc….”
>>> After three years of being in the thick of the Toronto blessing our Vineyard assembly in Scarborough ( East Toronto) just about self destructed. We devoured one another, with gossip, backstabbing, division, sects criticism etc.
I read this article some time ago, but as a campus tour guide who met people from all over and heard some of their stories, I have to say that I saw this pattern in the Body of Christ at large. However, I interpreted it to be a sign of the times and a season of shakings God was doing, along with the usual lack of Bible knowledge and lack of appropriating God’s grace to live out God’s word and live with one another, etc.
This may not fit exactly in the category of the ‘Toronto Blessing’, but it’s the closest thing I could find. I am new to this site and came across this topic while researching, trying to figure out if there is any one who has a similar account of what happened to myself and if they got help. So, I’ll try to describe a little about my problem. I recently (3 months ago) came out of a terrible spiritual deception with some serious consequences. I believe I received a/the spirit of error over five years ago without realizing it at first. (I am not saying that I know how I received it with absolute certainty, but as far as I can tell this is what happened) I watched a television show and received a spiritual impartation through a ministry that had the appearances of being Christian, and maybe is for all I know. There were certain manifestations in my life some time soon afterward, including speaking and singing in unknown languages. I’m not saying this part necessarily has any thing to do with it, but I’m just including it for information purposes. Anyway, I watched that same show over the internet in 2006 (by the way it is called Breath of the Spirit Ministries, ‘The Prophetic Word’, with Dr. Michelle Corrall, at the Stadium Anaheim Vineyard) and had another powerful spiritual experience. I believe I also received an “increase” in the “anointing” I received in 2002. Many more manifestations followed, that some I later saw in others when I visited the church (and in other churches/people on the television, namely TBN) including: dancing in the spirit, moving my body in the spirit, mysterious hand symbols forming (some look exactly like the ones on the Catholic statues), a breath behind my voice, rushing wind coming out of my mouth at times of prayer, and more spiritual experiences (e.g. feeling lighter than air). As things progressed over the year, even more supernatural experiences continued, such as the spirit writing and drawing symbols on a pad of paper through me, using the Bible to speak to me by guiding my hand, and speaking ‘revelation’ through and to me. It was when the revelations that were said began to contradict the Bible and leave out Jesus that I found out, rather startlingly, that this was not from God. It spoke things such as “he is like a prince”, “he is beautiful” (inexpressively so), “he is wonderful”, “he will show you everything”, “he is the one”. This didn’t shock me at first because I assumed it was about Jesus Christ, and being a Christian I wanted to worship Him. However, later it said “he is the one”, “he is like a messiah”, and “beyond the messiah is the one” among other things. I’ve left out different parts of the story to save room, but after I tested this spirit based upon unbiblical revelation spoken, a demon manifested. When I tried to say “Jesus Christ is Lord” all that would come out was “Jesus Christ is blahhhh”. It would throw my head back when I tried to pray and throw my body around. I called my church (a different one than mentioned above, a calvary) to ask them to pray for me and went there for help. The prayers haved helped me from them and others. I’ve also been given counsel from a pastor. The problem is that some of the people in my church believe that a Holy Spirit filled (having received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit prior to this in a biblical way) Christian can go through this while others at my church disagree. It has made it difficult to get further help and prayer, not to mention made me sad for others possibly already involved or who could one day be in this deception at my church who I would want to be warned. The demon has still not left despite myself and others casting it out, praying, fasting, etc. It manifests in different ways, especially when confronted to be cast out, such as: screaming, speaking through me, throwing and moving my body, making strange hand symbols, singing, etc. I’ve confessed all my sins (known and unknown), renounced every evil I can think of, sought God, prayed, read the Bible, and continue to go to church meetings often (where, suprisingly to some, I’m being filled with the Spirit regularly, which is a great help for what I’m going through now). It’s also difficult because I have poor health (I’m only 26) which is possibly also due to this problem, and that makes even harder to get help. I’m shocked that I’m still having this problem because I’ve done everything I know to do from the Bible, and don’t know what else to do. I also am finding tons of info on Brownsville, Toronto, and the like without finding a whole lot about deception of this sort, even though they seem somewhat similar. The only thing I can think of about why it has not left is that I was backslidden right before this happened and had only recently returned to the Lord. Maybe that opened me up to this. Also, when I was younger,13 I believe, I prayed a prayer to Satan something of the type people pray to Jesus to get saved except the opposite (it was a pretty random experience, and I was not a regular worshipper). In my mind though, that doesn’t seem like it should be in the way of getting help, since I’ve repented of all these things. Any advice? Know any one that has gone through this? I would greatly appreciate people’s prayers. I am so thankful that I am not blinded by this deception any longer that I believe is anti-christ. Thank You, Andrea
Andrea
Thank you for being so honest about what has happened to you - it must be really hard for you right now.
The Anaheim Vineyard is very much linked to what happened at Toronto, so you are right on topic here. What you are experiencing is almost identical to what many ‘recieved’ while at Azusa Street last century - it is automatic writing and channeling you are describing, like what mediums do.
I know what you mean about many Christians not accepting a ‘real’ Christian can go through what you have. Part of the problem is naivity and lack of expereince on their part(and not enough grounding in the word of God), and another is a problem with the language of ‘possession’ which is an inaccurate translation anyway for what is written in the New Testament because it is right in that a Christian cannot be ‘possessed’ by the enemy - but they can still be affected by demonic influences. ….including in deception, counterfeit gifts and ill health.
I went through this unbelief and rejection from the CHURCH many years ago as a young Christian, and was realy hurt by a church elder who insisted what I was going through was ‘psychological’, publically embarassed me in front of others by scoffing at me for ‘denying the work of the cross’ (which I never have done), because he did not believe I could still be affected by demons as a believer. Yet, I had undeniable demonic manifestations in relation to prayer, before I even knew about what they were supposed to look like/be like. This, he ignored. I also know people who have been deeply involved in the occult who did not get the help they needed after salvation from the church, and thus needlessly suffered, and in many cases fell away because of continued demonic ‘harassment’. It is tragic….all because the church does not believe the word of God. In the early church, part of the baptism ritual included deliverence - for all believers. I do think you should pray with others about what happened when you were 13 as well, as there will most likely be some things to get rid of from that date - your ill health could well be linked - even if you do not think it could still trouble you now.
Andrea, sometimes we need help from others in healing and deliverence - however ‘good’ our faith. And deliverence is much easier if we are with people at the time, as it can be a bit frightening or unpleasant for people, if young in the faith. The Anaheim Vineyard USED to believe in deliverence, but the trouble is they rarely if never tested the spirits behind their ‘good’ spiritual manifestations, which is why they got into the mess they did and led the rest of the church astray with it. John Wimber - its founder - was a ‘good’ man, but very naive in this regard, and decieved. His Roman Catholic and Quaker influences that he never renounced did not help.
If the apostle John in the Bible commanded the church to TEST the spirits as many evil ones are out there as angels of light (as you did, and thank God you did), then it means that the saved church must be able to be affected by it still.
I know there is a poster on this site from Anaheim, called David. If you are unable to get the help you need, maybe he’ll be able to hook you up with some people nearby?
Hi Andrea
Don’t worry; you will be free from this evil that afflicts you in Jesus Christ’s name!! You just need to find the right Christian people to help you. Unfortunately in this day and age going to a ‘church’ or ‘pastor’ for help in these circumstances is quite a sad experience (I know…be there, done that). But Jesus is watching over you and he is guiding you to find the right people to help you.
If you don’t come right with Miriam’s referral above, give me a shout via email - you can find my contact details on my blog. I know of someone (even though I am from South Africa) who might be able to help or at the very least point you to someone in the US who can.
Hi Everyone,
My name is Crystal. I am Andrea’s roommate. We have been best friends since we were kids. I really appreciate your willingness to help us. We would love to be put in touch with someone in our area who can offer us sound biblical counsel and prayer. I know that Andrea needs deliverance but am very leery of many churches/pastors because they want to talk to the demon, try to “heal” past memories, etc., which I don’t find biblical at all. We really need help and live in Southern CA.
To get an idea of my testimony, you can read this letter that I wrote to a pastor asking for advice:
I am a 26 year old woman who has only recently become a Christian. Although I was raised as a Christian, I rebelled as a teenager, walking away from God. My Christian upbringing was biblically sound. I grew up listening to Pastor Chuck Smith. I know about the work of The Berean Call because my mother has been a subscriber for many years. Although I knew the Truth as a child, I strayed away from faith and attended a secular university, earning a graduate degree in English Literature and placing my faith in humanistic philosophy. I had no intention of ever becoming a Christian as I honestly believed them too narrow-minded and felt sorry for them. I ardently adhered to the beliefs I learned in my women’s studies and critical theories classes. I didn’t believe there was a God or even in the supernatural.
My best friend of 13 years, Andrea, became a Christian years ago in her late teens. She had not been raised in a Christian household and did not have a biblical foundation. After less than a year of following Jesus and attending Church, she wandered away from the Truth. Not long after, her health began to deteriorate. She finally became so sick, weighing only 65 pounds and near death, that she called out to God in desperation and rededicated her life to him. It was the very next day that while watching TV in bed she came upon a television program called “The Prophetic Word.” This show is a production of Breath of the Spirit Ministries, a Charismatic church, pastored by Dr. Michelle Corral and located in Anaheim at the Stadium Vineyard. I believe that she was mentored by Katherine Kuhlman and is linked with Benny Hinn and Juanita Bynum. What happened next is difficult for me to describe as I have never “experienced” the presence of God beyond tears of repentance or peace in adversity. I cannot say that I have ever “felt” the Holy Spirit in any way that seemed supernatural to me.
However, Andrea, as she turned on the program, which she had never before seen, began to feel a strong supernatural “flow.” She describes feeling as though time had stopped and she was experiencing a taste of heaven. Sometime after this experience, she began speaking in other languages, which she assumed to be the gift of tongues. Over the course of the next few years, she had several experiences where she shot up in the middle of the night from a sound sleep speaking in these languages and performing intricate hand motions and symbols. When this first happened, she wondered what it could mean and figured that perhaps God was waking her in the night to intercede for someone. She wasn’t really sure what it meant but didn’t worry about it as it only happened a few times over the course of about four years. She continued to be a Christian, attending church at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, reading her bible, and praying daily.
In late 2006 she watched an internet video of Dr. Michelle Corral titled “The Power of a Personal Pentecost” among others. She again felt the strong flow. However, this time it was somewhat different. She felt a deep peace and sense of well-being accompanied by power. She prayed the prayer that Dr. Corral instructed her to repeat, which asked for an “impartation.” Three days later Andrea was praying in her room, speaking and singing in tongues and her hands began to move and to shake. She thought that this meant that God was healing her. She would yield to this spirit, thinking that it was the Holy Spirit. While she did not really test it, she did pray to God to ask if it was from Him. Luke 11:11 immediately came to her mind:
If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
She assumed that this must mean that this was of God. From time to time over the course of the next year, she would sing, dance, and speak “in the spirit.” Andrea also noticed that many of the physical manifestations of this spirit (e.g. hand and body movements, voice) that she saw in herself were not just similar to those of Dr. Corral but also others on TBN such as Paula White, Juanita Bynum, T.D. Jakes, and Karen Wheaton and The Ramp (if you haven’t seen this show, you should really check it out as they are claiming that the dead are being raised, people being healed, etc).* Often when she prayed, it was as if there was a breath behind her voice. Sometimes when she would start to pray a rushing wind would come from her mouth, making a howling sound. She had a number of other experiences. Once, after doing a series of hand motions, she felt lighter than air, as if her feet were barely touching the ground as she walked. Although we shared an apartment, I never knew that any of this was happening. Andrea did not share this with anyone. I would not find out until later.
This brings us to the events of December 2007. Andrea and I had been sharing an apartment for almost three years. I had graduated from school and gotten a good, stable job. Andrea, although she had been able to gain back weight and was no longer in immediate danger, was still plagued by various, somewhat unexplainable, health conditions that did not allow her to hold any job for long or complete her college degree. Some time before Christmas I noticed a change in her. She was not her usual self; her daily routine had changed. Although she usually kept the house very tidy, she wasn’t doing her chores, didn’t want to eat dinner together and seemed generally withdrawn. When I asked her what was bothering her she told me that it was nothing bad. In fact, it was something good. She felt that God was really going to start working in her life. I smiled patronizingly and brushed it off. I figured, “good for her if that is what she wants to believe.” However, very soon I began to become worried. As she got up from the sofa to go into the kitchen, she twirled around. I could not understand this. She had heard a teaching from Dr. Corral that the reasons that miracles, healing, etc. don’t happen is that the person that God is trying to use “breaks the momentum.” Hence, Andrea was willing to give herself over to this spirit 100% and do everything that it directed her to do, in essence giving herself over to it completely. I was in disbelief. I questioned her as to how she could think that the Holy Spirit would want her to do something as ridiculous as twirl around every time she entered a room. She has since told me that every time she questioned what it wanted her to do, she felt a strong feeling of condemnation and would be shown a scripture that seemed to confirm that she should comply. I feared for her mental health, but tried to be understanding and be open-minded. I truly believed that people could worship god in all different ways and didn’t want to be judgmental and prejudiced. However, as her behavior became stranger, I was not sure what to do. It would not let her really eat, drink, or sleep. She would go from room to room making hand symbols that to me appeared very occultic. I told her as much, but she was convinced that this was of God.
It was at this point that I began to become afraid. I prayed to God, not really even believing in him, that he would please protect us and reveal what was happening. This went on for about two weeks. Things got worse for Andrea, but she didn’t share this with me. It started having her write in a journal and draw symbols as well. It also started speaking through her, to her, in English. Some of the things that it said seemed normal, as if they were praises to God. It said “He is wonderful,” “He is beautiful,” “He is like a prince,” “He will show you everything.” Late on the night of January 3 things took a drastic change for the worse; what it said began to seem very strange to her: “He is like a messiah,” “Beyond the messiah is the one.” It impersonated Jesus and began to give her revelations that were contradictory to the Bible. She won’t tell me some of the things it said, but she is convinced that it was trying to drive her crazy with its false revelation. What it had told her was so terrible that she felt she should test it. She tried to pray but her head was thrown back against her will. She didn’t know how to test it so she tried to say “Jesus Christ is Lord,” but it came out “Jesus Christ is blahh.” She was terrified. Without waking me, she drove to Calvary Chapel to ask for help. A nice maintenance man prayed with her and she was able to say, “Jesus Christ is Lord.”
However, many at Calvary don’t understand how something like this can happen to a believer. The reason that I have detailed the whole story is so that you can understand that it didn’t just happen to a believer, there were other circumstances that made this kind of demonic attack possible. That morning, Friday, January 4, 2008 when I walked into work, my co-worker told me that Andrea had just called, there was definitely something wrong, and I needed to go pick her up at the church immediately. She was still thrashing during prayer and yelling in a strange voice. I didn’t know what to do. I still wasn’t really a believer, but I knew that something evil was happening. I took her to another Calvary where the assistant pastor prayed with her and explained to her that she probably just had a medical condition such as Tourette’s Syndrome because this could not happen to a believer. Still not knowing what to do, I took her to my Grandma’s house because she is a good Christian woman and I have heard her say that she has witnessed demonic activity before. My grandmother immediately began praying and called an elder from her church and the pastor to come. They prayed with Andrea and she would be better for a time, but this presence has still not left her. It still jerks her body about and makes noises from her mouth.
It has been a month and we don’t know what to do. It seems that any church that is even willing to believe us and help is in some way is involved in extra-biblical teachings that we don’t want to be involved in. Have you ever heard of anything like this happening before? I have read a number of books trying to make sense of this (The Light that Was Dark, Warren Smith; The Beautiful Side of Evil, Johanna Michelson; New Wine or Old Deception and Faith Undone, Roger Oakland; The Seduction of Christianity, Dave Hunt and T.A. McMahon) and they all agree that there is great deception in the church today and that some signs and wonders that are done are not of God but of Satan, but none of them really tell you what to do if you have gotten caught up in the deception and it has a hold of you. She has completely renounced this evil, but it hasn’t left. Michaelson and Warren make it very clear that all that is necessary to drive away a demonic attack is the name of Jesus. However, no matter how hard we have prayed, no matter who has prayed for us or with, Andrea is still jerking, twitching, grunting, moaning, and occasionally yelling out words. I know that what I have told you may not seem credible, but I assure you that it is. After a few days of this happening, I gave my life to Christ completely. I know that He is real. I even went to our apartment and threw out pretty much every book I owned other than the Bible, got rid of every CD and movie I owned because all of it was ungodly. I must have thrown about $15,000 worth of my formerly most prized possessions into various public dumpsters around Huntington Beach because I couldn’t stand to have anything that didn’t glorify God.
I have known Andrea for a long time and I know that what is happening to her is not the result of any physical or psychological condition. It is definitely spiritual. I would greatly appreciate any advice or guidance you could provide. Even if you just know of a book that I can read that might give us some insight. It seems to me that many of the people who write books about such things (e.g. McNutt or Theophostic Prayer) seems just as dangerous to me as the unbiblical teachings that first got Andrea into this mess. For now we are just trusting in God, staying in his word, and praying.
Crystal and Andrea
I do know and have heard of this going on before - you are not alone. You are not mad or suffering from Tourettes. I also know what you mean about flaky extra biblical stuff going on where the church people DO believe in deliverence. It is hard as you seem caught between a rock and hard place, with both camps in error. I really do not know the Southern California scene (apart from the places you should steer a mile from) so if anyone does, or knows someone who can help in a biblical way, please post a comment. David, are you reading this, can you help?
Andrea I am going to pray for you.
I recently watched a video of this woman Michelle Corral, and can unhesitatingly say she is a false teacher.She was teaching (if you can call it that) about the Jezebel spirit, and although she brought in a lot of Hebrew and Greek word meanings to sound “scholarly” I suppose, her teaching was way off the mark biblically.
Crystal and Andrea,
This web site might be of some help to you.
This particular article goes on for three pages.
It is a long read but worth it.
http://net-burst.net/demons/christian_demon_possessed.htm
Crystal and Andrea,
I am praying for you. I do not have direct experience of what you describe, but people close to me do. I will ask their advice (I trust them implicitly) and post here later. God Bless.
Crystal,
Can you tell us what city you are in?
Thank you to every one who wrote for your prayers and support. It is interesting that you mentioned Azusa Street because Michelle Corral gave a whole message one time about the people and the happenings related to it as if it were something to be looked at in great awe today. I read a book recently that made me think otherwise. And to Cheryl, thank you for mentioning Michelle’s teachings. I can look back and see teachings that were off like that now. I was just so deceived by the whole experience and got sucked in. When I called that ministry over the phone to talk with some one and tell them what happened to me, they were not very interested. I was not that surprised. They mentioned something like I had not got involved enough in their ministry, and therefore was not responsible with the “anointing”. They also mentioned something about some of Michelle’s “teachings” being so deep that some could not accept them. If I had heard that before, I probably would have realized some thing was off. I talked to another pastor at one of the church services I attend last night and he prayed with me. He said some thing like this happened to him before. It just depends on who you talk to where I attend. Even so, it’s hard for people to really grasp the percentage of my life taken up by this problem. They think that it’s something that is bothering me a little while I live the rest of my life normally. It’s really the opposite when I include the health problems caused by this. They also don’t understand that it has not left my body and contrary to what some believe, it appears to, in some way, be inside and not out. That’s probably why some don’t really proceed to cast it out, like it says to in the Bible. And thanks for the link to the article posted. It was written in a loving and respectful way. I do wish that more Christians would be aware of these types of situations so that they could help those under demonic attack. Thank you for taking the time to post that. I didn’t get a chance to read all about the site, but I may later. We live in Huntington Beach in Orange County. Thanks again.
Andrea,
No problem on posting the link. I really felt for your situation because I have dealt with demonic attack since I was a very young age. I remember that shortly after I got saved, I was on fire for God and then after that fire died down…that’s when the doubt of my faith set in. Soon after that, I was having dreams where I was half awake, half asleep wrestling with a demonic being, the paralysis and fear, or just the horrible dreams. My mom told me after that to rebuke the entity in the name of Jesus Christ. Do not talk with it just rebuke it. There are many times my mouth would feel paralyzed and I couldn’t say it…just force yourself in your mind, concentrate over the pain and confusion, just keep rebuking or saying “greater is he who is in me than he who is in the world” over and over until it goes away. The Holy Spirit does the work, you just open the door for God to protect you.
I’ve also noticed that when the fear or doubt creeps in and even in my dreams I start reciting this song, “Nothing but the blood” a good old hymn:
What can wash away my sin?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
What can make me whole again?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
Refrain
Oh! precious is the flow
That makes me white as snow;
No other fount I know,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
For my pardon, this I see,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
For my cleansing this my plea,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
Refrain
Nothing can for sin atone,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
Naught of good that I have done,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
Refrain
This is all my hope and peace,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
This is all my righteousness,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
Refrain
Now by this I’ll overcome—
Nothing but the blood of Jesus,
Now by this I’ll reach my home—
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
Refrain
Glory! Glory! This I sing—
Nothing but the blood of Jesus,
All my praise for this I bring—
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
If you haven’t heard the tune here’s a link
http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/n/b/nbtblood.htm
I will be praying for you Andrea. May God cast out that evil and bring you peace.
Hi Andrea
PLEASE email Glenn Grant at this address: hivcontrolcentre@wbs.co.za he will be able to help you!!!
Hi Andrea
I have told Glenn you will (hopefully) contact him, he is waiting for you to email him. He is VERY sound biblically!
Thanks so much for all of the prayers and posts. We emailed Glenn and look forward to a response.
Oh good stuff!
Hi Andrea / Crystal
Glenn apologises, he had a virus on his pc and was in the process of having to format his compter last night. He asks if you could please email him again in case he has lost it (the email that is) hahaha.
Thanks!
oops. I suspect I’m the David that Miriam was talking about above. Yes, I’ve been in the deliverance ministry in the past, and this at the Anaheim Vineyard Fellowship. BTW, the AVF did not stay with the Toronto blessing long. Before John Wimber died, he spoke against much of that movement and many of the other Vineyards left and went with the Toronto movement. I see very little if any remnants of that movement at the AVF.
I loved that ministry, but my speaking to the church leaders about the evil God was showing me going on behind the scenes there got me put on trial and found guilty of lies. I was removed from any ministry there. I was very disappointed to lose the deliverance ministry until I understood God’s purpose in having me there in the first place. It had been only to show me the reality of demonization in Christians. Then God led me further and showed me how demons get into people, and had me write a book about it.
One of the main things God showed me was “They know not what they do,” just as Jesus spoke on the cross. So when I read on this site about all the “false prophets,” I know they do not know what they are doing. No amount of proof presented to them can get past their inner defenses to convict them. I didn’t believe this before either, until God gave me revelation on Jesus’ words about this.
I now realize that there is not one who does not have error within them, no, not one. And no, God is NOT mad at them, ….yet! And each of them has some truth from God, but it is up to us to ferret out truth from demonic lies.
If the lady gets no satisfaction from the one mentioned above to help her, then I would suggest going to the Aneaheim Vineyard and contact Craig Lockwood. He is the one who heads up deliverance there, and knows more about it than anyone I know.
No, I no longer attend there, but I know of no other church which has the part of truth that this lady needs.
Incidentally, Dr. Corrall is not part of the Stadium Vineyard as such. She rents space there. I came across her a couple of times in the past and “sensed” she was not what she seems to be to so many…..DavWms
The “Toronto Blessing” was a deception.There was control,spiritual abuse and a manipulation of people’s hopes,needs,wants,desires and emotions.As well,it became legalistic,mystical and elitist,it became what it judged in others,(churches,denominations etc).
You can fool some people all the time…
Man this stuff is horrible, if I were not close to God I wouldn’t want to know about christianity, the critical spirit is like poison. It’s really interesting that when asked where there is some work that is Godly for these girls to go you didn’t have a clue - speaks loads!! Try, for your sake and God’s, to put your efforts into whats good, holy, etc not yap about an experience that happened in 1994, and the fact that every mention of the supernatural in healings, etc is always met with - yes even the devil can do this - sad, really sad. By the way watchmen look out of the city watching for danger that is coming NOT look inward to the city to critize everthing going on in it whilst the enemy sneeks in through the front gate - it’s always been a good trick of his.
Julie:
I DO have a clue as to what is right or wrong…..but sadly all the famous ministries that these people and I have probably heard about or could ‘go’ to I cannot recommend, because they are false and/or heretical. Such is the case in these apostate times. But the fact the true is in the minority does not make, and never has made, what I or the Bible says on these points to be untrue.
As to ‘yapping on about 1994′, athough 1994 was the Toronto Blessing’s birthdate, the ‘blessing’ has gone on and grown for years since and infected the church big time - and it is the some of same spirits in Todd Bentley’s meetings today as was then and the very same ministries and people and heresies linked - it is the same lies, some of the same errors (but worse) -…..so it is absolutely of note now in 2008 what happened fourteen years ago, thirteen years ago, twelve years ago, eleven years ago etc………
You really do not have a clue as to how the enemy operates.
Julie! What about the Trojan Horse? You can get very distracted and enticed by the packaging.
Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it because as a person who is truly searching for the Godly truth about all this I can tell from the sting in your reply that it isn’t here so this will be my last visit to this site, you have obvious hurts which I am really sorry about but I must find answers that are coming out of a pure stream not an infected wound. Bless you.
Wish I had seen Julie’s reply and spoken before she left. We should recall Ezekial’s being taken to the back parts of the Temple, where he was shown what was going on behind the scenes there. So sometimes,some watchmen must look within, too. DavWms
It is thought that Toronto means ‘place of gathering’. This ‘blessing’ originated at the airport church. Airport is a place for man-made birds to land. Dirty birds (fallen angels) gathered at the Toronto Airport church and seduced men with anxious flesh and kingdom of self ambitions. The product is the wine in the cup of MYSTERY BABYLON THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS.
I need your guidance. I had been watching the Lakeland Revival and felt uplifted by it but decided to come and see what the Internet had to say about it. I’m glad I did. But this is my problem. I am a Catholic. I strayed from the faith for many years and returned to the LORD about 15 years ago. I started reading the KJV Bible and am now in my 5th year of reading it through. Some of the tenets of Catholicism do not match the Bible and I now feel I have to leave the church, bt I don’t know where to go. There are Protestant churches in our neighbourhood, but I don’t know which one I should choose. Can you help me?
Thank you and Bless You.
Hannah
Where do you live?
Hannahm
Calvary Chapel churches are good at going verse by verse and explaining each book of the bible on context. Just a possibility. Perhaps there is one near you.
The Lord bless you, Hannah. The above suggestion of looking for a Calvary Chapel near you is wise. Put that name in your Keyword and see if there is one near you…DavWms
Hannah,
I am praying for you. Many of us are former catholics. Kepp blogging here. Miriam herself is a former catholic. Bless you for reading the Bible- God is revealing to you the truth of who he is.
Very Interesting reading all the comments
I believe there in a true move of God almigthy but we are to quick to get on the band wagon of the next new thing that we hear happening and have little decernment and dont know how to try the spirits to see if they are of God
Be warned that in the last day many will rise and do great signs and wonders also
The very elect of God would be deceived if it were possible Which means as it says IF IT WERE POSSIBLE that means the very elect of God will not be deceived We need an open heart but we also need to be cautious and KNOW the word of God. Gods word is going to stand the test of all things
Miriam,
I know you don’t like cut and paste from other blogs but I couldn’t find the correct link to this and thought you might find it interesting. Though it’s about Torronto it also fits Todd Bentley’Lakeland “revival”
I found it on Living Journey’s blog who found it on Christian Witness Ministries blog:
AN EX-SATANIST EXPOSES THE TORONTO BLESSING
Dear Dr. Van Zyl, I’m an ex-satanist (came out of it in the 80’s) and have heard about your endeavor to combat the move called Toronto Experience. (At least some Christians have some insight, albeit a limited number.) Thank God for that! I recognize the spirits behind the Toronto Experience as being the same spirits we unleashed on the church (to deceive) when I was against Christianity. These are counterfeiting spirits, and they are being so blatant about it that I am amazed that people can’t see what is going on. The problem is that the power of these spirits lies in deception. (They are primarily religious deceiving spirits) I would be grateful if you