End Times Prophetic, Prophecy, Visions, Dreams, Revelation, Christian Blog

Christian prophecy for the church and for the nations from a servant of God called to speak God’s word

The growth of a prophet, accountability & prophetic infallibility

Are prophetic people ’born’ or ‘made’? Do prophetic people ‘grow’ or do they just start out prophesying at a ‘perfect’ level, coming out as if from nowhere?

It is my understanding that there is a differance between those called to the office of a prophet and those in the church that will operate in the gift of prophecy from time to time, as the Holy Spirit wills. One needs to understand this to correct the misunderstandings about prophetic infallibility that can be made by the church when they confuse a prophet (with a small ‘p’) - that is someone who operates in the gift of prophecy sometimes along perhaps with other giftings and ministries - with a Prophet (with a capital ‘P’) – someone who walks in the office of a Prophet always.

While all in the church may seek the gift of prophecy and other revelatory gifts to ‘prophesy’ as prophets with a small ‘p’, and it is by man’s will that this gift can manifest - in the sense that man may actively seek to prophesy by faith  (although the Holy Spirit still assigns the gifts as He wills) - all cannot operate in the prophetic office as a ‘Prophet’ (with a capital ‘p’), regardless of their levels of desire, faith, expectation or anything else as a Prophet is only born of God.

True Prophets in the prophetic office are ’born’, in that it is by God’s election and calling and anointing only that they can be what they are. By ‘anointing’ I mean in the true Biblical sense (a calling from God with the resultant spiritual impartation/prophetic ‘mantle’ then given) not the neo-pentecostal sense of a spiritual impartation or a mantle given without the divine calling coming first. Prophets cannot be ‘made’ by man or man’s will, or by passing the ‘anointing’ or ‘prophetic mantle’ along from man to man, although Prophets can be recognised by man and sent out by man once they are ordained by God. No man can manipulate this to work differantly. (Man of course can ‘make’ false Prophets in his own strength).

Those prophets who operate occasionally in the true gifts of the spirit may sometimes make mistakes and get it wrong. If error does occur, it does not necessarily mean that the prophetic spiritual ‘gift’  is false or the individual who errs is a ‘false prophet’. It most likely means that the individual does not know how to hear and discern the voice of the Lord from the voice of the flesh (or Satan) yet, or he or she is possibly not mature enough to properly understand a word or vision and to interpret it (and no proper teaching and discipling is given within the church as to how to, as few know how to properly ‘pastor’ the prophetic well), and perhaps also the revelation is not properly weighed and tested by the body for its correct interpretation. True prophetic people are not always given opportunity to teach the true from the false to the body so consequently the church does not reach prophetic maturity and immature prophets are not brought on to maturity. The individual perhaps adds fleshly presumption and assumption to the ‘pure’ prophetic word by adding their own thoughts/interpretation to it and what was once pure can thus become ‘off’ and completely miss the mark. People might also alter the pure word through fear, lack of faith, to show off, felt peer pressure to sanitise it, change it to fit doctrine, or any number of other factors…… These are just some reasons why true prophets with a small ‘p’ may get it wrong from time to time. (There are those, of course, that do not operate in the true gifting at all, and never do – they operate in the deceptive satanic counterfeit or in the flesh. This, although an extremely important topic, we will put that aside for the sake of this discussion as we are discussing here why the true gifting and ministry can become ‘off’.)

All prophets with a small ‘p’ need to be accountible when they are wrong – always and without exception, no matter their age, maturity or immaturity, sensitivity or ability/inability to take criticism. A lot of prophetic people are very sensitive by nature – hypersensitive even – (perhaps it is because of this inherent sensitivity that they are more prone to hear and see things). However, if these ‘prophets’ cannot accept correction, whatever the reason, in my view they should keep quiet and not publically prophesy. It is neither loving nor helpful for the church to ignore error or stay silent to protect anyone’s feelings. One of the first lessons in the prophetic must be that constructive criticism is vital for a prophet’s development, and it is essential for a prophetic person to toughen up (in a positive way) to criticism (negative or positive), otherwise they will end up wounded and bitter rejects on the fringe of a church. Every true Prophet I have ever met - and I have not many – is riddled with bullet holes – shot by the church - because there is so much rejection in this game if one speaks up for the truth. One needs to toughen up while staying humble and open to God, something that requires the Lord’s wisdom.

Prophetic people must be taught when and why the error might have happened (ideally learning from other prophets), so that they may learn from their mistakes so as not to repeat them again in the future. A loving correction is like oil upon the head. The pastoring of the prophetic ones in the body must be ‘ruthless’ in correcting all error, however small, in order to sharpen those in their midst and prevent confusion, heresy or factions developing. As well as being corrected for errors, they should ideally also be encouraged as to how to get greater revelation and clarity by being taught from those more mature in the prophetic gift or ministry. The prophets (with a small p) who get it wrong should not, in my opinion, be labelled as ’false prophets’ unless they make a habit of being way off the mark and/or they do not make themselves accountable to the body for their errors, and/or they do not grow.

The Prophet walking in the true prophetic office has a far greater responsibility than the prophetic body, and should be nigh on ’infallible’. By the time the Prophet takes ‘office’, he should have learned the ropes, made most, if not all of his mistakes and learned from them. It is NOT acceptable for a Prophet in office to be wrong, and he should be absolutely accountable if he does make an error, and this needs to be even more scrupilous.

I do not accept the current new wave teaching from Rick Joyner et al that a Prophet in Office under the New Covenant is right only 50-60% of the time, and this is perfectly OK and still makes them a true Prophet. This is making excuses to tolerate the false. There is nothing Biblical to support the Prophet’s obligation to be correct is altered after the coming of Jesus, or that somehow they can be any less accurate and it is OK. If anything, I feel that a Prophet under the New Covenant should be even more accurate because of the indwelling of the Spirit, the unveiling of God’s glory, and the nearness of God compared to the Old Testament. Jesus himself said about false prophets: ’by their fruit you will know them’.  I frequently hear this quoted out of context, twisted to mean someone is a true or false prophet depending whether they are good or holy, meaning is their much  fruit of the Spirit evident in their lives? This is not, however, what Jesus actually meant in this context. By their fruit – the produce from their ‘job’. Does what they say come to pass or not? Jesus’ test for false prophets seems the exact same as the Old Testament test - do they speak the truth or not? Does what they say come to pass? This is how the disciples should recognise the true from false. This is how the church should recognise the true from false.  Notice that Jesus did not say his Prophets could be 50% right and 50% wrong and to make excuses for them. Nothing has altered in terms of responsibility between the two covenants for the Prophetic Office. The answer is clear cut from Jesus. His disciples in these Last Days must not listen to the lies that claim anything otherwise. These people will have a hidden agenda because they are false prophets and want to lead you astray!

If we use Christ’s plumbline against the new breed of prophets, people like Bob Jones or Kim Clement, the Bible indicates very clearly they are false prophets because they get it wrong – and frequently. (Not even counting their aberrant theology into the equation – what they specifically predict does not come to pass). It is not just once they are wrong (once could possibly be understood and forgiven, perhaps even twice) BUT frequently, and with zero repentance.  I would say it is generous to say ‘three strikes and you are out of office’ (even though I do not think it acceptable to be wrong even once when in office. If you get it wrong then you need to go back to the drawing board and consider you cannot hear as well as you thought you could and should not be in ministry).  And worse still, rather than hold up their hand to say, ‘yep I misunderstood, I got it wrong’, they cover up their errors with lies and excuses and deceit and do not make themselves accountable to the body.

If a Prophet in Office is wrong, it is perfectly right to call them a ‘false prophet’, as this is most likely what they are. I do not accept the current teaching purported by today’s prophetic teachers who say that a false prophet is one who follows false gods, not a Christian Prophet who makes a mistake and gets it wrong. I have even heard it taught at a prophetic conference by an international  prophetic ministry, linked to the former Toronto Airport Vineyard, that those who love Jesus cannot be false prophets. They claim that it is the god, or the source of the spirit that a prophet prophesies by that makes a prophet true or false. They then activated the whole conference room to prophesy to each other and said, It’s ok, you cannot get it wrong as you are Christians and so cannot be false prophets! This is not the truth, it is not Biblical, and it leads to much error and delusion.

If a Prophet in office is wrong 50% of the time, something is seriously wrong with their hearing, their discernment or with their god and they should not be given room to speak. They should at the very least keep silent until they are a lot more accurate and/or stop calling themselves a Prophet. It is not acceptable for the church to give such men and women a platform.

Note what beng ‘wrong’ is about though, as God can change his mind or avert judgment. Words can be conditional, and God responds to repentance and humility. There are frequent examples in the Old Testament – eg the prophet Isaiah who went to King Hezekiah and said you are about to die, and Hezekiah wept and God relented and gave him another 15 years. Likewise the evil King Ahab tore his clothes and humbled himself before God, and his judgment was consequently deferred. Nineveh repented and was not destroyed. However this did not make Jonah a false prophet. Therefore when judging the true from the false, the above factors must be taken into account.

While Prophets are born they should also grow. True Prophets and prophets can and do mature as all Christians should. Samuel was taught by Eli how to listen to God’s voice. Likewise, there was a ’school’ of the prophets in the OT, where I believe flint sharpened flint.

We ‘prophesy according to faith’, and should, if walking right, grow in faith and spiritual stature and favour, with increased faith and knowledge of God and his ways over the years. With increased spiritual growth and personal maturity, so does, or should, the prophetic increase. Likewise our spiritual ears and eyes begin to understand better what we see and hear from experience and the benefit of hindsight re our past revelations, and we become more attuned for the future. We understand better how God talks to us, and the recurring sumbology as we grow, and we also discern what is and what is not God’s voice.

Prophets DO therefore grow. Note this is NOT to do with their accuracy once in ministry – I do not agree with the neo-prophets saying it is OK to be half right once in ministry – BUT it is a growth with increased vision, clarity, scope and revelation and even authority. So a true prophet once in ministry will be accurate but over time will grow.

August 17, 2007 - Posted by endtimespropheticwords | Bob Jones, False Prophets and Teachers, Gifts of the Spirit, Kim Clement, Prophecy, Rick Joyner | , , , , , , , | 24 Comments

24 Comments »

  1. I read your prophesies of the end of the world with great interest. I wanted to share a novel about the end of the world, which takes place through the marriage of the last pope and his lover, the Moon Child. The novel is online at:

    Pope Peter & the Moon Child
    http://jamesaire.wordpress.com/pope-peter-the-moon-child/

    Enjoy!

    Comment by James Aire | August 19, 2007

  2. Thank you for dropping by. I note that you claim this novel was given by automatic writing during a sceance. Were you aware that this activity – speaking to the dead – is forbidden by God?

    Comment by endtimespropheticwords | August 20, 2007

  3. EndTimes,
    After reading this post which is very sobering it makes me wonder how these false prophets like Rick Joyner and Kim Clement can get away with all the craziness. I speak to myself as well as everyone else that the Body Of Christ can not afford to be lazy in this day and time. There are wolves everywhere and we must hold these people accountable. We have only ourselves to blame when we fall for the cult of personality that is so prevalent with these phony prophets and teachers.
    It makes me wonder how anyone would want the office of Prophet when you see the high bar that is set and expected.

    Comment by Mary | September 12, 2007

  4. Mary: these guys can be very persuasive. Some are well versed in using body language and other mesemerism, and music and visuals to hype their audience into a state of frenzy – and it is true that a prepped up audience, high after a worship session, can be conditioned to accept anything that is preached, especially if they allow themselves to be led by feelings and physical sensations or so called ‘anointing’. If the whole session feels ‘anointed’ (aka hyped) the Bible gets chucked out and the mainfestations of anointing, spiritual highs, golddust, gems, angel feathers, grunts, roaring and shaking gets taken as a sign that God is with them so what they say must be true. It is also true that many people do not know the word of God and in a culture where if it feels right it must be right, these guys are accepted as prophets of the Most High instead of the quacks they are.

    Many of the audience don’t ever really hear what these guys are really saying – I watched Kim Clement some weeks back and he was hyping the whole audience speaking nonsense with a few buzzwords flung in yelled out, and it seemed the audience responded to these buzz words (such as ‘fire’, ‘blessing’, ‘anointing’) swooning or screaming each time he mentioned them, rather than respond to any coherent sentances. In between his ‘prophesying’ Kim Clement went about to jumping around singing his songs and getting everyone worked up again. I bet if you asked people afterward what he spoke of, they would have a differant recollection of the actual truth.

    I have seen this at other churches too, ones much less flaky, where a visiting teacher has said something and the congregation just have not picked up on it as they are half listening or asleep, or those more alert make excuses for what he must have really meant when it is quite clear that what he said is what he meant. As a consequence heresy is not picked up on and takes grip.

    I have also realised that what one could not have got away with 10 or 15 years ago in mainstream churches, one can today. I have been shocked by how quickly this has happened, It is like the Satanic Toronto ‘Blessing’ with its bad fruit has twisted peoples’ minds and discernment and ability to speak out over the years. Now I regularly hear from even traditional evangelical camps: ‘But it must be from God because I felt so blessed’ or ‘It must be from God because he heals/there are signs and wonders etc’. whereas pre 1994 they would have checked it out against the word of God and accepted it was wrong despite their feelings or the signs.

    ‘The Toronto Blessing’ has been a conditioning of the church towards accepting something much bigger coming soon, I feel. As I have said before, the church is prepped, cue, enter the Antichrist.

    Comment by endtimespropheticwords | September 12, 2007

  5. I happened to catch Kim Clement on TV (my first time)a few weeks ago; and, the guy didn’t actually say anything!! Just like Miriam said above, the audience would react to certain words; but, try as I might I could not comprehend a single real message being spoken. What a bunch of hooey!

    Comment by Lee | April 5, 2008

  6. Miriam,

    I’ve read this entire post with interest as I’ve been trying to figure out just what a prophet (or Prophet) truly is. I will have to break up my thoughts into a number of smaller comments to make this easier to digest.

    After leaning toward cessationism for NT Christians a while back, I’m now convinced that position cannot be supported. So, then just what is the definition of a prophet?

    In studying this I’m convinced that there are two definitions for a prophet: one is as a foreteller (predicting future events) and the other is as a forthteller (proclaiming doctrine, precepts and principles). A person can operate in both. In my (rather large and clunky) Second Edition Webster’s New Twentieth Century Dictionary both of these definitions are specified. In addition studylight.org offers both definitions here:

    http://www.studylight.org/isb/view.cgi?number=4395

    If one foretells one must be grounded in the Holy Scriptures and hence operate using both definitions. A predictive prophecy cannot contradict the Word of God.

    According to Richard’s Complete Bible Dictionary Moses was a good example of both types. That is he spoke for God and made predictions (The Flood). Here are the 5 characteristics of the true prophet which Richard’s points out on page 823 of my 2002 copyrighted edition:

    1) God revealed Himself to Moses in the burning bush (Ex 3:1-9)
    2) God called and commissioned Moses (Ex 3:10)
    3) God told Moses to deliver His message in the name of Yahweh (Ex 3:13-15)
    4) God gave Moses authenticating signs that Israel would except
    5) God told Moses what the future would bring

    On the other hand, one can be a forthtelling prophet (proclaiming the Word in context) but not necessarily have the gift of foretelling. And, as you noted in another post, ideally this prophet should be relevant to the time at hand.

    Now, having said all this I was formerly under the belief that with the canon (Holy Scriptures) closed, the need for foretelling/predicting future events for the church body at large is unnecessary. However, your predictive and — I’m not sure how to word this — insightful(?) prophecies have given me pause. Especially what you wrote about Chuck Pierce and Gloria Copeland. I’ve not had a chance to read a number of your other posts/prophecies; so, there may be more for me to peruse.

    In OT times predictive prophecies were very important as this was about the only way the nation Israel could hear from God. This why we have 5 major and 12 minor Prophets as well as all the prophecies given by Moses, Elijah, Elisha and many others. The main reason is that the Holy Spirit only occasionally fell on certain individuals. Today, NT Christians have the Holy Spirit living inside to guide them into all Truth.

    I believe many of the references to ‘prophet’ or ‘prophesy’ in the NT are in the forthtelling manner. For example, in the various references in the Book of Acts to new converts who spoke in tongues and prophesied it would fly in the face of logic to believe these people were foretelling future events. If so, when did these prophecies come to pass? Why weren’t these specifically mentioned to see if/when they would come to pass? It seems much more likely they were proclaiming the Word of God. In this way these new converts provided proof as to their Christian conversion and were in effect witnessing to others around who had seen their transformation.

    On the other hand, it is clear there are NT examples of foretelling. Agabus in the Book of Acts is one example. Most of the Revelation to John on Patmos is future prophecy.

    In 1 Corinthians 12, 13 & 14 I believe it is clear that Paul is speaking of both the predictive and the proclaiming types of prophecy. In 14:19 Paul says (NIV), But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.” Up to this point Paul was contrasting tongues speaking with prophecy referring to prophecy as a “greater gift” (among others).

    My whole point in this comment is show that prophecy is not merely a foretelling of future events; but, it is also a forthtelling, a proclaiming of God’s Word. Also, I wish to show my own thought processes as I began to study this about a year ago.

    Comment by Lee | April 5, 2008

  7. OK, now that I have the definition of a prophet out of the way, I’d like to address specific things in this post. Before I do so, I wish to point out that I have absolutely NO charismatic/Pentecostal background. About a year ago, I was nearly led astray by an individual who was caught up in the whole hyper-charismania/IHOP/Gnosticism thing. Thankfully, the Holy Spirit led me to research this online; and, WOW, was my eyes opened!

    Out of this experience I have really learned quite a bit about the Word having compared the aberrant teachings I was exposed to to the Scriptures. Looking back, I’m very thankful for what happened even though I lost what I thought was a budding friendship along the way.

    I’m not sure I subscribe to your view of capital a ‘P’ Prophet as opposed to a prophet. Some Charismatics (C Peter Wagner et al) tend to use Ephesians 4:11-12 to promote the offices of both Apostle and Prophet:

    “11It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up…” [NIV]

    However, in context, this appears to be speaking of the foundation of the Christian church which was in its infancy when Paul wrote this Epistle. I see no delineation in scripture between a “prophet” and a “Prophet.” In fact, I see no real basis for the term “Prophet” as opposed to “prophet.”

    Now, I DO believe that there are those today who operate in the gift of prophecy – either the forthtelling or the foretelling(/forthtelling) as I’ve outlined in my prior comment above. And, while an individual may have a specific gifting as a prophet, I believe anyone can exhibit the gift the prophecy – even if it’s just a one time occurrence. 1 Corinthians 12:11 bears this out:

    “All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.” [NIV]

    “…just as he determines” I believe is the key here. A case in point with regard to the gift of tongues: I know someone who was doing missionary work in China a number of years ago. He felt led to preach to a group one evening although evangelism is not one of his talents/giftings. As he tried to read the Bible text he pre-selected a glare came over his Bible and he could not read it at all! However, he began speaking and the words just gushed out. Afterward about 250 (or so, I don’t recall the exact number) came forth for the altar call. He was amazed.

    His interpreter looked at my acquaintance and asked, “Why didn’t you tell me?” “Tell you what?” was the reply. “That you could speak Chinese!” “I don’t speak Chinese.” “Well, you just spoke perfect Mandarin Chinese!” This was my acquaintance’s one and only tongues-speaking experience.

    I believe the same thing can happen with regard to the gift of prophecy – or any of the gifts. I believe I’ve operated in the prophetic – in a forthtelling way – when I was a new Christian without much real knowledge. In these times, I was able to quote scripture to comfort others who needed encouragement at specific moments. Mind you, I did not have these scriptures memorized at that point.

    I do agree that true prophets can get it wrong from time to time. HOWEVER, one should be VERY careful before one prophesies! Looking at the OT examples of 100% accuracy (and the penalty of stoning to death if one is wrong and hence a false prophet) should give anyone pause to be sure they are in fact being led by the Spirit and not the flesh (or Satan) BEFORE they utter any prophecy. Yes, false prophecies should be immediately rebuked and the guilty party should repent to GOD first, then to all who’ve heard this particular prophecy.

    Anyone who calls himself/herself a Prophet is indeed, responsible for ANY false prophecy and is rightfully called a false prophet if wrong even once. I agree with your views on this in your post.

    I’m also not sure I agree with your view of the “sons of the prophets” being essentially prophets (or “Prophets”) in training. I’ve heard this idea used as a basis for the whole Elijah list garbage (I know you’re not touting this, of course). The first time the word “prophet” is listed in the Bible it refers to Abraham:

    “Now return the man’s wife, for he is a prophet, and he will pray for you and you will live. But if you do not return her, you may be sure that you and all yours will die.” [NIV]

    Here’s the definition given by studylight.org for prophet from the Hebrew which refers to one who is a “spokesman, speaker, prophet:”

    http://www.studylight.org/isb/view.cgi?number=05030

    The first time “sons of the prophets” is used is 1Kings 20:35:

    “And a certain man of the sons of the prophets said unto his neighbour in the word of the LORD, Smite me, I pray thee. And the man refused to smite him.” [KJV]

    The NIV Study Bible text note of this passage reads, “…These companies of prophets were apparently religious communities that sprang up in the face of general indifference and apostasy for the purpose of mutual edification and the cultivation of the experience of God. It seems likely that they were known as prophets because their religious practices (sometimes ecstatic) were called prophesying – to be distinguished from “prophet” in the sense of one bringing (“prophesying”) a word from the Lord. The relationship of the Lord’s great prophets (such as Samuel, Elijah and Elisha) to these companies was understandably a close one, the Lord’s prophets probably being viewed as their spiritual mentors.”

    Going back to my Webster’s, under prophet I find:

    school of the prophets; among the ancient Israelites, a school or college in which young men were educated to become teachers of religion among the people. These students were called sons of the prophets.”

    Taking these two references together along with the dual definition of a prophet, I’m not sure a conclusion can be drawn on either side. Perhaps, even the “sons of the prophets” were of both kinds?

    Miriam, please keep in mind that I’m not challenging you to be confrontational in a negative way. I’m just trying to learn and grow in my Christian walk. I’m hoping that a dialogue here can be both mutually beneficial for me and you as well as all those who read this blog.

    In Christ,

    Lee

    Comment by Lee | April 5, 2008

  8. OK, I’m embarrased… …in post 6 above I refer to Moses predicting The Flood. Obviously, it was not Moses but Noah. My bad.

    Comment by Lee | April 5, 2008

  9. Lee..sorry when did I ever say ‘“sons of the prophets” being essentially prophets (or “Prophets”) in training’ or imply it? I am not sure what you think I said, please clarify?

    For the record, I do not agree with prophets being in the family at all, by default, hence what I said about Boldea and Duduman keeping it in the family.

    I do not think you are challenging me, by the way and welcome your dialogue.

    Comment by endtimespropheticwords | April 5, 2008

  10. Miriam,

    “While Prophets are born they should also grow. True Prophets and prophets can and do mature as all Christians should. Samuel was taught by Eli how to listen to God’s voice. Likewise, there was a ’school’ of the prophets in the OT, where I believe flint sharpened flint.”

    It was this part here that I construed as you meaning ‘”sons of the prophets” being essentially prophets (or “Prophets”) in training.’ It’s the words “grow” and “mature” and your example of Samuel being taught by Eli. I see you did not use the word “sons” but instead “school.” Since these prophets were not yet “mature” I think it fair to conclude they were in ‘training.’ Perhaps I’m not understanding what you were saying here.

    And, I wholeheartedly agree with you that there’s no family lineage of prophets begetting prophets.

    Comment by Lee | April 5, 2008

  11. Lee,
    Thanks for the ref. to prophesy strongs no 4395

    Throughout New Zealand for those who do acknkowledge prophesying, they always declare that it is ONLY for edification, comfort, and confirmation.
    Or words to that effect, you will know exactly what I mean.

    NO reproof, or correction at all.

    Comment by Paula | April 6, 2008

  12. Oh, I get it! (The light bulb suddenly goes on.) You thought I meant by ’sons’ of prophets that these were the prophets offspring. My understanding is that ’sons of the prophets’ in the OT is used just as ’sons of God’ in the NT — not as literal ’sons’ (or ‘daughters’).

    Comment by Lee | April 6, 2008

  13. Lee: all I was saying really was that prophets grow and mature, and can be helped and brought on by other prophets to that end.

    Comment by endtimespropheticwords | April 6, 2008

  14. Very interesting article, I’ve wondered about these things. I’m still yet a bit skeptical as to the gift of prophecy/prophesying on some fronts, though I am relatively un-informed.

    I really appreciated Lee’s solid, biblical contribution here,(assuming he’s a “he”)it has put alot into better focus for me. His story of what happened with the missionary in China is quite profound!

    May God continue to bless you in your endeavors for His sake, and for His good purposes, Miriam.

    The Lord Bless you and keep you;
    The Lord make His face shine upon you,
    And be gracious to you;
    The Lord lift up His countenance upon you,
    And give you peace.

    Num 6:24-26

    and give you peace~

    Suzanne

    Comment by suzanne | April 28, 2008

  15. Very interesting article, I’ve wondered about these things. I’m still yet a bit skeptical as to the gift of prophecy/prophesying on some fronts, though I am relatively un-informed.

    I really appreciated Lee’s solid, biblical contribution here,(assuming he’s a “he”)it has put alot into better focus for me. His story of what happened with the missionary in China is quite profound!

    May God continue to bless you in your endeavors for His sake, and for His good purposes, Miriam.

    The Lord Bless you and keep you;
    The Lord make His face shine upon you,
    And be gracious to you;
    The Lord lift up His countenance upon you,
    And give you peace.

    Num 6:24-26

    and give you peace~

    Suzanne

    Comment by suzanne | April 28, 2008

  16. This article is so right…Thank you!

    Comment by liz48 | August 8, 2008

  17. Loving God above all else and loving others with Agape love trumps all. I was called by the Lord as a prophet to the nations in very unimpressive circumstances. I love the Lord and said yes, to what He asked, not knowing what such a ministry was. It is several years and I have grown in humility, in deep reverence and love for the Lord and the desire to have a nameless, faceless ministry. The Lord shows me many things. I have not been moved to declare many of those things publicly, but I do in situations where no one may even know who I am. I have traveled to nations, and across the US (I am not a native of the US)and many have confirmed the call of the Lord on my life. It is great joy when the Lord loves you and you interact with Him.

    I tend to be more sensitive to things that are against the Lord’s heart and one day, the Lord showed me that the disgust etc. I was feeling when I thought of some ministers was what He was feeling. Do I think only prophets feel His heart? I don’t know.

    I keep myself updated with what many of the “recognized prophets” are saying, and I my spirit is often grieved. A very strong foundation in the Word and a desire to build His kingdom above all, is fundamental. Who cares about losing face or being scorned. If you are in error admit it; be conscious that the Lord loves people. His love respects them, so we should be transparent, accountable and honest to the highest degree in dealing with the most insignificant person.

    Money is the present big hook…sadly. I write to many ministries that are in the conference business, and tell them the Bible says, “Buy the Truth and sell it not.” I have never received a reply. It may be OK to charge a registration fee but I think we owe it to others, made in the image of the Father, to explain how the money will be spent, and to give those who cannot afford an opportunity to attend.

    Matthew 7:22 &23 is very relevant here. Note that people were blessed. The minister will have to sort his relationship with the Lord. We should also remember that we all have one enemy – satan. So we walk in love but we are alert as serpents and humble as doves. Be wise, yet strong and quick to obey the Lord…He is awesome. He is GOD!

    Comment by liz48 | August 8, 2008

  18. Please seek the Father…

    Please talk to Him….

    Please expect Him to talk to you…

    Ask Him to make you more sensitive to His voice…He will!

    Guilt often comes from a pulpit…This is sad but true. It has come from a ministry of limitations and pride (sometimes subtle) and fear (often because the minister is hearing another man’s message and not from the Lord.)

    Take guilt to the Father…ask Him, His opinion about it.

    Fear of any sort is NOT from the Lord…This is a lesson I have learned too often…

    Comment by liz48 | August 8, 2008

  19. I guess the porblems start when people think they have “made it” as a prophet but still need to grow and learn. Interested to hear people’s thoughts about the role of the receiver of the prophetic word
    1 Cor 14:29
    Let 2 or 3 prophets speak and let the others pass judgement

    The same Spirit that lives in Miriam or Liz here on this board is the same Spirit that lives in me – What responsiblity do I have as a listener to their prophetic words?

    Comment by David | August 21, 2008

  20. I was reading the growth of a prophet and accountablity and was wondering (which hopefully I did not overlook my question) Which is so how does a person know who is being prophesied to if the person speaking is operating in the gift or the office. Where in the word is the a differance in gift and office. Ive heard that there is a gift and the office. But have not seen where that is scriptual, I saw one when Paul is discussing the gifts of the spirit; and now Im remembering where he also showed offices 1st apostols 2nd prophets and so on 3, 4 and 5. Is that what you mean and others when you say there is a gift and office? If you are not a part of a local assembly and you are prophseing and or have been called to office how can you then be um lack of a better word affirmed or rather called out? Is that why the apostol is first in office because they are the ones who will do the calling out or affirming? At I church i belonged to before I moved from the state the Pastor anointed by head with oil and prophsied to me saying ” My sister God sees you and he is going to show out in you”.. Well needless to say that was years ago and when I was going through and still am some mintues I was reading the word at this one particular time frame in my life and the words were jumping out in my face it was wrenching, and in one instance I was reading Exodus and God said” Im going to show myself mighty” When he hardened Pharohs heart. So I was grabbing my heart remembering what the Pastor has said to me. NOw today I say I should have asked him what he meant?
    Thank You

    Comment by Danielle | September 4, 2008

  21. I used to attend an NAR congregation and once during corporate prayer I smelled wood burning…I remember it being a very sweet aroma. I asked others if they had smelled it, but no one did. They attributed it to the Lord’s presence. However, when I spoke to the “prophetess” she said that it was demonic. Has anyone ever had this experience? I’ve had this happen on more than one occasion in various places.

    Thanks for any insight.

    Comment by sonya | February 1, 2009

  22. Sonya – I’ve posted this before, but one time at a Benny Hinn conference I smelled a strong scent of wood smoke, like a campfire, while everyone else around me was smelling a sweet fragrance of apples. Boy, I felt a lot of fear and condemnation over that one. Interesting, huh?

    Comment by marybee | February 1, 2009

  23. Thanks for responding MB. It is interesting. I’m not saying that I am a prophet…not even in the slightest…nor am I the type to look for signs and wonders. They are just strange experiences. Sounds like you felt condemnation in the sense that you should not have been there. Thanks again for responding…do you remember under which post your original comments are located?

    Comment by sonya | February 2, 2009

  24. I have smelled beautiful aromas where the Lord’s presence is. On the other hand I have felt the desire to puke or vomit in certain congregations. This happened recently; I was in a meeting and the Lord said there needs to be repentance. I shared it with the man heading the meeting and he led the people in a time of repentance.

    I believe that both your experiences were from the Lord; the aromas or scents that we are at peace with and enjoy (the Lord loves to amaze His children!) are from Him. If not, we can trust Him to show us clearly.

    Comment by liz48 | April 7, 2009


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