Testing the gift of tongues, what are you afraid of if you do?
God commands believers to not forbid speaking in tongues (I Corinthians 14:39), but He also commands them not to believe every spirit but to put them to the test to see whether they are of God or not (1 John 4). The spiritual gift ‘distinguishing of spirits’ is one of the least sought after, and least preached about spiritual gifts, that is very seldom mentioned let alone practised. However this gift is vital for any Spiritual church’s day to day life - as the Apostle John tells us many false spirits NOT of God have gone into the world. Note also that testing the spirits in the Biblical sense is completely differant to ‘blaspheming against the Holy Spirit’ which is a commonly given reason for not testing spiritual gifts. However, it is one thing to accuse a person or spirit they operate by the power of Beelzebub (without scripturally testing them), and quite another to test and see if the spirit acknowledges Christ or not as per the test in 1 John 4 before one makes any accusation.
After fifty-five years of ministry, A.E. Ruark believed around 90% of all tongues manifestations that he tested were false. He believed there was a true gift of tongues so he was not against spiritual gifts. However he realised that for every spiritual gift there was an anti-gift - a false gift that is antichrist. He claimed that tongues was one of the most frequent entry points for Satan in his attack upon Christian people (as they do not know what they are saying and rarely discern it or interpret it properly) and that their fear, or reluctance, to test the spirits was a major strategy Satan used to avoid being uncovered.
The test he suggested of a tongues spirit should be made when someone is speaking in tongues. The one who does the testing should address, not the human being, but the spirit, in this manner, “Spirit, in the name of Jesus Christ, answer, is Jesus Christ come in the flesh?” A demon is most reluctant to answer this question. It will refuse to answer that question, will give an evasive answer, or say “no” in English with the person’s voice.
“The tongues speaker must agree that the spirit of the tongue may answer in English, and that he himself will not give the answers, but will as it were “sit back”, and allow the spirit controlling his vocal organs to give the answers, while he simply listens. Then we are testing the spirit of the tongue directly, and will prove whether this spirit is of God or of the devil.”
Gerald E. McGraw said that the Holy Spirit promptly, freely and consistently confesses Christ. A demon will give one or several answers that betray his real identity, or he will stubbornly evade the question, in itself a refusal to confess. A demon may give a number of favorable answers, for he hopes to preserve his hold on the victim, but persistence and faith will soon unveil his actual identity, name and purpose.
W.L. McLeod, the pastor in whose church the Canadian Revival began, said,‘On a number of occasions I have been asked by tongues speakers to test their gift. I have found some that were entirely a self thing, and some that had demonic overtones, but I cannot deny that some were as genuine as any Scriptural test could make them. The test I applied was simple. I would kneel with the person and ask them to exercise the gift. . . . When they go into this other tongue, I then address the spirit controlling their tongue and ask it, on the authority of 1 John 4:1-3 to confess in the English language that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. I think of one such case where the reply was given in perfect English, loud and clear, “Yes, yes, Jesus Christ is the Son of God and He came in the flesh.” The person was so overcome afterwards by the manifestation of the power of God, that she was unable for a few moments to rise from her knees…. . . There are probably as many genuine cases as there are phony ones.’
Gerald McGraw claimed that many religious spirits would be deceptive, and call themself ‘Jesus’ (albeit another Jesus). ’During a deliverance session, we encountered a spirit named Jesus. He hated the Lord Jesus Christ. I was suspicious because past experience had revealed that tongues demons often deceptively adopt the name Jesus. Upon my inquiry the demon admitted he was the spirit giving her her gift of tongues, rather than the Holy Spirit.’ Some apparently even claim to be the Holy Spirit til revealed to be otherwise.
Strong Christians can be invaded by a tongues demon, therefore anyone with a gift of tongues should make certain the gift was not a satanic counterfeit, since missionaries have reported hearing tongues speakers blaspheming in the language they had used on the mission field. Tongues should be tested….At that time McGraw had never tested any tongues, nor had his colleagues. But soon someone asked for a test…. she was ‘an outstanding Christian lady - capable, talented, balanced, dependable, a soulwinner. She said she never used her tongue except in private. As she related her spiritual experience to my wife and me I just could not imagine that this fine believer could have a tongues demon. I told her so….Upon testing we found a tongue quite manifestly of the Holy Spirit. But soon another tongue appeared in the same woman- a tongue that was bitter and hateful toward Christ, toward her and toward us. The true tongue was clear evidence to me that her sanctification was genuine. Yet it was undeniable that a demonic tongues spirit inhabited her.’
‘Others who have had tongues tests are utterly sincere and deeply spiritual people. The lives of several show marked evidence of conversion, spiritual hunger and growth. I do not believe that a tongues demon can sever a person from Christ’s love. I have no doubt that many in the charismatic movement are earnest Christians, with more zeal and love than their anticharismatic critics. Yet my experiences of testing make me suspect that multitudes of tongues enthusiasts are deluded.’
There is seemingly slight ground that can admit a tongues demon, particularly where an unscriptural view is entertained…. God will never give a stone if we ask Him for the good gift of His Spirit (Luke 11:11-13), but experiences of many demonstrate that unscriptural views on tongues are frequently sufficient provocation for Satan to give an unsuspecting victim stones and scorpions of false tongues at the same time. God offers no automatic protection to the unwary. One middle-aged lady visited only one charismatic meeting. When a saintly looking elderly man there urged, “Just yield your tongue,” she did. She received nine different demonic spirits who all professed to provide her with tongues gifts.
Tongues are no plaything. A properly tested tongue can provide a channel of spiritual enrichment to a Christian and to a congregation. But it appears much of the current wave of tongues-speaking is satanic delusion.’
Edited excerpts from ‘Distinguishing Between True and False Utterances’ by K. Neill Foster.
Alexander Seibel of Germany was a pentecostal of good standing. His friend was a missionary in India and on a visit in Germany. They shared missionary experiences and decided to pray. While Alexander was praying in tongues the missionary jumped up and demanded Alex to stop speaking as he was saying, in a known Indian dialect, the most horrible blasphemy words against God. There are many other similar occurences. Tongues must be tested. Note I do not say all tongues are false, I say some are.
K. Neill Foster continues -
‘Can it be claimed as certain assurance that those who insist upon a tongues experience contrary to scriptures will never get a stone or serpent?If this scripture can be used in this way, why then the manifestation of false gifts on every side? For example, I know personally a former preacher who finally discovered his gifts were not of God. I was in the counselling room when he was converted. During his Bible college days I had occasional contact with him. He began working in what would be called a non-charismatic evangelical denomination. He left to pastor a Pentecostal church because of his speaking in tongues and also other “gifts” such as the ability to identify the sins of the people in the congregation. At the same time his marriage deteriorated. He finally left the ministry. In his case there were also frequent outbursts of obscenity and later abject backsliding.
Finally in desperation he came to his former friends, so-called non-charismatic pastors. In a deliverance which lasted several hours these pastors drove out eight demons, many of them naming themselves as false gifts, several of them speaking in tongues.
One brother who has tested tongues for forty years says that in his experience nine out of ten were false.
In a recently published article one of our contemporaries cites a similar statistic: Ninety percent of the tongues he and his colleagues have tested have been false. In my own experience perhaps eighty percent of the tongues manifestations that I have had to deal with have been false.
Still I doubt that the statistics tell the whole story. Because people with genuine gifts and healthy spiritual life do not come for counselling nearly so frequently. But there is no denying that the devil has been having a field day among charismatics. His penetration, whatever the percentage, appears to be massive.
But to face the issue of false gifts, stones and serpents, the open door to satanic penetration is in the merging of the work of the Holy Spirit which is for all with a spiritual gift that is given only to some as God wills. The resulting confusion is very often tragic.
A teenager was subjected to the overtures of a radical charismatic group, a group which in turn would certainly be rejected by mainline groups of Pentecostals. He allowed hands to be laid on him and “saw” a bright light. Later in a “Canadian revival” atmosphere, as distinct from “charismatic” atmosphere, the youth felt a bondage he could not escape until he made a verbal commitment much like this, “In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ I now refuse, repudiate and renounce completely any and all spirits of false prophecy from _____ (naming the false prophet). And I send them to the abyss in Jesus’ name.” He was instantly liberated and sensed within that the “charismatic” bondage had been broken.
On one occasion a pastor friend came to me asking for assistance. He had two young fellows preaching in his church, one of whom he knew spoke in tongues, and he was uneasy about their ministry. He wanted the test to be applied….We applied the test to both, but we were unsatisfied with the results. It appeared that the fellows spoke in tongues, switched off the manifestation to answer positively to the question, “Did Jesus Christ come in the flesh?” and then shifted back into their tongues. I realize now that we found out only if the fellows believed that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. We did not succeed in trying the spirits at all. But the experience was not wasted; we learned what not to do.
The manifestation must be allowed unhindered and uninterrupted expression while the test is being made, and no effort must be made by the person involved to supply the “right” answer.
The repetition of the question, “You spirit now manifesting, is Jesus Christ come in the flesh?” may be important. I have come to expect a spontaneous affirmative answer when the tongues manifestation is genuinely of the Holy Spirit, especially when the test question is put several times.
If the enemy is involved, repetitious questioning (like repetitious commanding, Mark 5:8, Amplified New Testament) will often shake the enemy loose and provoke abrasive or antagonistic reactions - and of course clarify the case.
Sometimes the spirit may respond with a positive answer that is at the same time equivocative and/or evasive. For example, a spirit might respond, “Of course I believe in Jesus.” But which Jesus is not specified. If there is any hint of subterfuge, stick to the biblical test. Repeat it. Enlarge upon it by requiring answers to such questions as these: Is Jesus Christ Lord? Is Jesus Christ anathema? Does all the fullness of the Godhead dwell bodily in Jesus Christ? This procedure is likely to clarify the issue fully.
In 1 John 4:2 and 3 the verb forms used indicate that every spirit that continually and genuinely confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God. Therefore reluctant admissions or occasional positive declarations that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh are not sufficient. The confession must be continual. A superficial understanding of this principle can short circuit the whole procedure of testing.
(Demons can and do lie. Thus, the words continually and genuinely in the paragraph above are of utmost importance. Also, as we have just noted, the Greek verbs used in 1 Corinthians 12:3 and 1 John 4:2 and 3 do come down strongly on the continuous idea.)
Illustrations of deceitful positive affirmations are not hard to come by. In the Dominican Republic I met a Christian woman who habitually twitched and shuddered in prayer meetings. She had a tongues manifestation which seemed to take over when she wanted to praise the Lord. But when the manifestation was confronted, the confession of Jesus Christ, though positive, was accented, even faintly humorous or mocking, and in English which the woman definitely did not know. I believe in retrospect that it was a false confession.
A friend who wrote to me during the writing of this book related an incident where invading spirits named one of their co-inhabitors, “Jesus.” So of course they all knew and loved “Jesus.” The spirits had to be confronted with “which Jesus?”
Another friend added yet another illustration. In the process of a deliverance a spirit claiming to be the Holy Spirit manifested itself in the victim. All tests were applied with positive results. When my friend returned home from a trip, he found his colleagues persuaded that the Holy Spirit indeed had taken control of the person. All he had to follow was a discerning witness that something was wrong. He initiated a confrontation and the phony “Holy Spirit” was uncovered.
Thus, as we have said elsewhere in these pages, there are four possibilities with spirit-testing: (1) a positive affirmation which is genuine and continual, (2) a positive affirmation which is not continual but is intended to deceive, (3) a denial, and (4) silence. 1 John 4:2 and 3 lays a four-sided trap for the enemy, and the Christian worker must know where the biblical lines are drawn.
If a pastor observes doubtful manifestations in his congregation, as a shepherd of the flock, I feel personally he has every right to ask to be permitted to test the manifestation. But he should be ready for the fireworks and to proceed with exorcism in the event of false manifestations. He should also be prepared to instruct the inquiring person if the manifestation proves fleshly. If the person himself is creating the “tongue” and no spiritual manifestation is involved, it may be judged fleshly.
Also, before the test is applied, one should prepare the person involved for the possibility that there has been deception. To admit that one has been deceived is a very high hurdle indeed. Terminology is important. Use the full title of the Lord Jesus Christ, because there are many antichrists in the world. At one of our conventions a sister who was in the process of being delivered was taken by a spirit which said repeatedly, “Jesus, Jesus, Jesus.” Unfortunately the “Jesus” was not the Lord Jesus Christ. The spirit was dislodged in His name.’
From ‘A Third View of Tongues’ by K. Neill Foster
I really appreciated this post. The Holy Spirit is a fairly new concept to me. I started speaking in tounges a few months ago, but now I’m learning the importance of testing the spirits.
Feel free to check out my blog too. I’ll be back here!
Justin: God bless you. Keep hold of God and keep your eyes on Him. There are many that will seek to lead you astray in these days, preaching another Jesus and another gospel. May you become a minister of fire for the true gospel, burning brightly for Him and not burning out. I pray that God will give you wisdom and the ability to distinguish between spirits, and the courage to speak out what you see. Bless you. God is not a man that he should lie.
I’ve never heard of testing the spirit of tongues in this way. It does strike me as odd and I’m not so sure that it would always work.
I noticed there was an emphasis at one point in the article to make the point that the gift of tongues is not for everyone.
I know of the Scripture from which that idea comes from…that some gifts are given to some and not others…
However, I believe Scripture makes a distinction between the gift of tongues and a simple prayer language.
It is in like manner to faith (w/o that no one can even know God) and “the gift of faith”. Also, all believers can prophecy (1 Cor 14:24, and to some degree v31), but not everyone has “the gift of prophecy” or the office of prophet.
That is certainly an interesting article, and I’m sure that demonic tongues are just as, or even more, widespread as the author makes it seem.
Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. I looked up blasphemy at one time and it said something like this: to speak lightly or amiss of sacred things.
To me it sounds like it is very easy to do and I can’t help but wonder if a great deal of Christians in false movements have inadvertently done this.
I remember just learning about tongues and telling my aunt. She was a Christian and immediately said, “Speaking in tongues is of the devil!”. I now wonder if she is still a christian or doomed to hell. She did not want to speak evil of God or the Holy Spirit, far from it. She had been taught this in church and thought she was helping.
It seems very easy to speak amiss for anyone because we are not perfect. What if in the course of trying to tell if something is of God we come to the wrong conclusion and Blaspheme the Holy Spirit and do not realize this until too late?
There is a circumstance where someone thought they had Blasphemed the Holy Spirit. This person was a Christian.
When they realized that they had “Blasphemed” the Spirit they went into a deep depression and started forgetting to eat or even care for themselves anymore.
They wanted to be a Christian and wanted to please God but couldn’t shake the deep despair. One day while praying and going over and over in their mind as to whether they had committed this atrocious act, they pleaded with God as to whether they had done it or not and said to the Lord out of despair, “Why did you make the Holy Spirit if it was so easy to Blaspheme Him? They had then wished out of despair not with contempt that the Holy Spirit was something God would not have made so that no one would have to spend eternity in Hell. They loved God and wanted to do right so I know this person did mean nothing evil in their heart when praying to the Lord about the Holy Spirit. At that moment when they wished this to the Lord they realized again OH NO I have again Committed Blasphemy of the HOLY SPIRIT by saying this to the Lord!
They then sunk in a much deeper depression and spent much time in the deepest of despair.
This person despite thinking they were eternally doomed continued to seek the Lord and attend church and follow God in truth and had a heart that wanted to please the Lord but knew deep within this would never be because they had committed the unpardonable sin.
*note* later the person after many years realized that the first thing they had done was not the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and still had no relief because they had accidentally Blasphemed the Spirit while in prayer to the Lord the second time.
While in church I saw many people use the Holy Spirit’s name
and make Him responsible for a lot of the phenomenon that was going on as well as some of their selfishiness and greed. That to me is amiss and speaking lightly of the Spirit. I can’t help but wonder if the majority of Christians (not all) have committed this terrible act.
Sandy: blasphemy is not something you do ‘inadvertently’ neither is just to ’speak lightly or amiss of sacred things.’ Blasphemy means to speak against, or to defame willfully with speech. Note also that the only unforgivable sin is saying that the Holy Spirit is unclean, evil, cursed, demonic, vile, sinful etc, and Jesus says that all other blasphemy is forgivable. Paul said he was “a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief” (1 Timothy 1:13)
The pharisees were guilty of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit because they said Jesus had an unclean (evil) spirit. They were claiming that Jesus was Satan incarnate instead of God incarnate. It is this, and nothing else, that was blasphemy against the Holy Ghost and was unforgiveable.
Some scholars say that this sin cannot be committed today because the sin is saying the earthly Jesus was possessed by a demon instead of full of the Holy Spirit himself. They further say that if it were possible for this sin to be committed after the resurrection of Jesus, then why is there no more warning against it in the NT? They say therefore the sin in question was actually possible only to be committed in the days of our Lord’s ministry on earth.
Regardless of the above, blasphemy is not something done in ignorance or some unwanted thought the devil puts in our mind to accuse us or tempt us to do. We are all tempted in many things. I know many Christians have been terrified, under bondage of fear of this sin. I was. People become so afraid that they start having terrible thoughts in their minds against the Holy Spirit. They hear cursing words or whatever in their thoughts and think that means they must have sinned and they fear hell and the consequences when in fact they have not sinned merely been under attack and tempted. etc. The more they try to not think the thoughts, the more they think about them and like you say people can sink into depression. It can become a terrifying experience but it is Satan’s bondage. Note that to be unpardonable this must be wilful something that you intentionally think and utter.
I do not think your aunt is doomed to hell as I do not think she committed this sin. I do not think your friend did either ever - once or twice. From what I have read, what she/he said or thought is not this sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. It is wrongful thinking but it is not unpardonable. I do not think the Christians in the Church you saw did so either.
May you and your friends be free of this fear Sandy, and this bondage that has kept you from the love of God. May your friend be released from this fear and this depression and start walking in paths of light and joy and not gloom. May your aunt truly discover the love of God in her heart.
May you be personally released from a spirit of condemnation and instead see the spirit of sonship (or daughtership) in your life. You are a child of God, beloved, special, beautiful and precious. This spirit does not cause us to fear, rather it causes us to run to God and say Daddy! Precious Sandy, the locusts have truly eaten many of your years and caused you to despair, and to fear, but see hear what God wants to do with you. I know I gave you a Psalm the other day, please meditate on this as it is for you, and I believe its promises are for you. (the one weeping last by night, but joy comes in the morning) Time for you to live in the day, and no longer the night, Sandy.
>What if in the course of trying to tell if something is of God we come to the wrong conclusion and Blaspheme the Holy Spirit and do not realize this until too late?
Testing things is biblical. It is not the testing but the attitude of the one doing it that matters.
See also
http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2007/08/21/speaking-in-tongues-learning-from-history/
I really want to believe it when people say it is hard to or impossible for us these days to Blaspheme the Holy Spirit but the Bible plainly says whoever even speaks a word against the Holy Spirit has no forgiveness of sins. I just don’t see how it can mean anything then what it plainly says.
If my aunt says that tongues are of the Devil and really tongues is of the Holy Spirit then that is calling something Holy of the Devil and that is what the pharisees did.
When I test the spirits to see if they are of God and come up with the conclusion that something is of Satan and it was actually the Holy Spirit’s work then I have blasphemed the Holy Spirit. I just do not see how it can mean anything other then what it says.
Jesus said whoever speaks a word against the Holy Spirit has no forgiveness. I don’t see how “whoever speaks A WORD” can be translated into anything else then speaking a word.
I’m not trying to be argumentative just honest. I really do not see it. Is the text not translated properly in the English Version?
Miriam,
>”In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ I now refuse, repudiate and rnounce completely any and all Spirits of false prophecy from______(name false prophet). And I send them to the abyss in Jesus’ name.
I’m really wondering about my tongues. All throughout the 80’s I went forward many times to receive tongues,(I even did this once at Kenneth Copelands church). Anyway, when they would tell me to just start talking nothing ever came out. Then in Dec 2000, I was at home with my roommate and another friend and they prayed over me. I “felt” that I received 2 separate words, and as the week progressed my prayer lanuage expanded to a total of 6 words that I just repeat over and over when I pray in the Spirt. Now I’m concerned about false spirits that could have been accumulated over the years with all the different laying on of hands. Also I’m concerned that my tongues aren’t of God. Interestingly, I’ve wondered the last 6 years if they were real and then I read your post.
Anyway, to refresh your memory, I live in Las Vegas and was involved with a TACF church. I don’t know any other christians here besides this church. I have several christian friends around the country but I now think they too have drunk the kool-aid as well and couldn’t do a deliverance on me. Do you think it is possible for me to test these spirits on myself? How would I do that? Could I perform a deliverance on myself? I used the above prayer to point out that I believe I could pray that over my involvement with false prophets, but how to be delivered from the entire last few years, which I’m sure some was God, and some from demons. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Tina: I want to reiterate not everything you have experienced has been false and demonic over those years. I need to point out the other side of the fence if you like, which is that there is truth still there (as well as heresy and lack of discernment mixed in). I believe there is much more light than darkness in you. Be assured of that, be assured of Christ with you, and God brooding over you and protecting you. (Otherwise you could freak or flip or fear by focussing only on the darkness and demons. Do not let Satan accuse you of this or lead you into depression about this - I warn you strongly of this as I feel it will be a tactic so please rebuke it.) Jesus is still your Lord and he will guide you into all truth as you repent, enquire of Him and search the scriptures.
I cannot see how you could test a tongues spirit yourself, and I would not recommend it if you were alone anyway. You can test prophecy and other spirits by the word of God though alone.
I recommend you pray that prayer and renounce verbally stuff you know about, the false teachers and anointings and repent and ask God to free you of all than hinders and binds you of the darkness or of the flesh. Ask him to cleanse you and lead you into all truth. He knows your situation at the moment, and I have seen and experienced being self delivered, and it can be very quiet and gentle if we ask God to make it so and have faith for it and speak to God more than the evil one. ‘Resist the devil and he will flee’ scripture says, you do not need a church around praying for you. However, sometimes the deliverance follows at a later stage when others are around you….
Thanks Miriam, will do.
I almost don’t even want to make this post, for fear of contributing to a petty argument that does not truly further God’s Kingdom. Yet, I think that it would be valuable to gain some clarification on the following.
Without a doubt, I know that people can be demon-possessed. There are many scriptural examples to support this. Nonetheless, I do not subscribe to the belief that a Christian can be possessed by anyone besides the Holy Spirit. It seems paradoxical that a person could belong to both God and a demon simultaneously.
This does not mean I believe that Christians cannot be oppressed by demons or even have strongholds(areas of recurring sin that allow Satan to gain a foothold of influence) in their lives.
It seems to me, although I don’t know what your personal beliefs are, that some of the individuals you quoted above believed that Christians can be demon-possessed (e.g. actually speaking in tongues by the power of the Holy Spirit and then speaking in tongues by the power of a demon). I know with certainty from the Sermon on the Mount that no one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other. Or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. I know that in this instance Jesus was referring to Money or Mammon. Still, if this applied to the spirit of Mammon, wouldn’t it apply to being possessed by any spirit that is not of God?
Could you please explain your position, as well as provide biblical references?
As a post script, I do not mean to sound accusatory or confrontational; however, I have been greatly impacted by the weight of many of your prophecies. As a result, I have scoured your blogs (and statement of faith) looking for doctrinal errors, etc, with the purpose of testing your words against the God’s word. As of yet, I must say that most everything I have seen I can personally confirm to be Biblically sound. Having said that, I have had a few questions, such as those created by the discussion above.
Thanks for your patience in answering,
Brandon: this post in the most part was not written by me, it was an edited summary of A E Ruark’s (and others such as K. Neill Foster’s) beliefs and practises, which I have posted as a warning to pentecostals so please bear this in mind when weighing it up. However I personally agree with the gist of it - hence posting it - as I do believe there are a lot of false tongues and indeed false spiritual gifts in the church.
There are many false signs and wonders today in the church that do not just occur on a flesh level, decietful spirits are behind them and their teachings although they spill out through human ministers - pp ‘a powerful delusion that will deceive even the elect’. You say a Christian cannot serve two masters but you must know yourself many sincere believers are led astray by false teachings which the Bible says are taught by seducing spirits. Also Christians sin and fall and go into error because of the sinful nature and/or because they do not love the truth so you cannot just say because you are saved you invulnerable to sin or deception. I know many spirit filled sincere believers were led astray by Toronto (which is satanic and demon influenced) because they did not enquire of the Lord properly about it/test it against the word of God. They shook, rattled and roared, and it was spiritual forces and not God himself that did this, therefore demonic forces influenced spirit filled believers on some level (not by possession though) to shake, rattle and roll and roar and fall into further deciet and lose whatever discernment they did have and be led further and further astray and have more and more bad fruit and hardness of heart - ultimately I believe preparing them to accept the Antichrist and persecute believers who have held true.
Demon possession is the subject for a whole another article which I may write another time. In summary though, no Christian can be ‘possessed’. ‘Possession’ is indeed a really bad word for it - a mistranslation - as NT Greek show it was never referring to a ‘possession’. Although no Christian can be ‘possessed’, I believe they can still be afflicted and affected somehow by demons usually without realising it and they can be delivered and set free.
John 1 tells us to test the spirits as many false spirits have gone into the world, and can influence prophecy and teachings. John clearly says therefore that these ministers therefore are not prophesying etc merely by the flesh but by an antichrist spirit. Some of these ministers were Christians led astray, therefore the church must be vigilant.
Jesus healed some who were sick with spirits of infirmity and those bound by Satan - including believers.
Early church practice (which is not an authority like the Bible but is still helpful) also records ministers who were sent to exorcise recognised false prophets in the church, and they clearly indicate these false prophets were once true believers albeit led astray by love of power and status. Early church records also have exorcisim rites on believers. Real exoricism is thus clearly a differant thing to deliverance and exorcism as per the Exorcist and other occult films. If we can understand this, as well as understand why Jesus rebuked Satan ‘in’ Peter (who was not possessed), and understand how Satan ‘entered’ Judas, then we can better understand the real spiritual battle we are in and be much more vigilant, and understand ALL Christians not just ‘the bad people’ such as witches and satanists can be affected somehow by demonic influences.
Thanks for your clarifications. Before I continue, I thought I should clarify something as well. After re-reading my own comments I realized I may have sounded as though I thought the whole argument on demon-possession itself were petty. I’m sorry for this, as I did not intend to come across this way at all. In fact, I think spiritual warfare & testing the spirits is an important teaching missing in many churches.
By prefixing my comments with:
“I almost don’t even want to make this post, for fear of contributing to a petty argument that does not truly further God’s Kingdom.”
I was simply saying that I didn’t want to start down a rabbit trail, or bring up an argument for argument’s sake, directing attention away from your main point (i.e. we all need to test the Spirits), with which I whole-heartedly agree.
Okay, so having said that, I really think you made good points. I had forgotten about Jesus telling Peter to get behind him. I also believe that Christians can be manipulated/oppressed/etc. by demons, but they cannot be actually “possessed” or completely controlled by them. Or at least by the time that such a “possession” occured, I believe that the Christian would have turned his/her back on God and ceased to be a Christian.
I hope that you did not think my previous comments were meant as a personal attack. I meant nothing of the sort. I think I often come across sounding harsh although do not intend to.
With Love in Christ,
Brandon: I did not read the idea it was ‘petty’ into at all, neither did I consider it personal attack. You made some important points/raised important questions that are on topic and people do misunderstand this issue in the church a lot.
Greetings in the Name of Christ. I have just read your articles on testing the modern gift of tongues. I have previously read works of Gerald McGraw and A E Raurk and have many CDs by Ernest Rockstad.
I myself have been in deliverance ministry for 23 years and in that period have had about 45 Pentecostals come to me to have their “gift” tested. About 40 have turned out to be vile cursing demons using the tongue to praise Satan and blaspheme the Lord Jesus Christ. The others would not admitt that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh and therefore was either demonic or was of the flesh.
One particularly strong spirit that manifested during the test eventually confessed that it entered through the laying on of hands. It’s works were tongues and prophesy but it had further ground and would not leave. Demons are very legalistic and will hold on until the last bit of ground is surrended to the Blood of Christ.
It’s name was the “physical manifestations of the Pentecostal movement”. The final pieces of ground were ,jumping up and down and lifting hands to Satan. When asked what it was saying in tongues it said glorifying my master Satan and cursinf the Lord Jesus Christ.
Another case was an elderly missionary who had practiced her “gift” for 41 years. It had helped her win souls, kept her closer to the Lord, strengthened her witnessing on the mission field. She was sure that her “gift” was of the Holy Ghost. While the tongue was in manifestation, I put to the spirit the test as of 1 John 4:1-4, is Jesus Christ come in the flesh? Instantely a raging demon burst forth and twisted her face and hands and tried to scratch out my eyes. Praise the Lord I had on my Armor and it could not reach me.
This same lady after these demons were cast out returned for more councelling and as we prayed she fell to the floor on her knees with her hands clasp in prayer begging me and saying to me ” I am a good spirit, do not cast me out, I’m a spirit of God, I love Jesus.” But when I asked if it loved the Jesus that died on the Cross and shed His blood for….. sins, it became another foul cursing spirit to be sent to the pit.
One of the objections that I come across when asking Pentecostals to have their tongue tested is that it would grieve the Holy Spirit. My reply is that it was the Holy Spirit that inspired the Apostle John to write the verses in 1 John 4:1-4 so He would be more grieved should they not obey the Word of the Lord.
I would recommend that all Christians should read the unabridged version of WAR ON THE SAINTS by Jessie Penn Lewis as this works co authored by Evan Roberts grew out of the 1904 Welsh Revival where the workings of the Devil manifested along side of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. It details the wiles of the Devil and is a classic warfare manual.
It is up to every Christian to be a “Good Berean” for we are warned in 2 Corinthians 11:13-15
“14) And no marvel, for Satan himself is transformed* into an angel of light. 15) Therefore, it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.”
* changes himself (KJV note)
Leigh: thanks for this, it is fascinating reading as although we should not ever base theology on experience alone, it is nonetheless interesting to hear to complement with Bible Study. If you have more time I am sure many here would like to hear more from you (me included) - the trouble is there are so many counterfeits about today - gifts and manifestations and anointings, and very few people are preaching it let alone preaching on testing the spirits. I too recommend all reading War on the Saints, it is a classic and shows up Toronto for what it is - however in my view it needs to be read carefully as Jessie Penn-Lewis goes too far the other way and chucks the baby out with the bathwater.
I came across a tongues spirit a week ago at a church. I heard it first before seeing the woman speaking it, and if I were not at church you would have immediately thought it a Satanic chant but the trouble is most Pentecostals are naive and accept things without thinking on them. Apart from the fact the woman was completely out of order scripturally, (eg speaking over another prophesying a call to repentance and holiness), the monotone of her voice and her ‘vacant’ expression and what was manifesting around her in others (anger etc) more than illustrated demonic forces were at work.
Dear Miriam,
Greg here again from the other posts on P.K. I have read the article and posts above and am a bit bewildered and confused and yet it also pertains to me. As you know from my other posts I have said how I became A christian and backslid and repented etc. but now can I tell you of something that happened after I was first saved and how it has affected me to the present day. I was a believer of eight months and I went to a meeting in Dublin ran by a visiting American evengelist. There was a lot of speaking in toungues by hundreds of people it seemed at the same time. I went forward to an altercall to be filled with the holy spirit and he put his hands on my forehead and it felt like I was being pushed back. The harder he pushed the harder I pushed back. (I have the gift of stubborness, A blessing and a curse). That was a little humour. People were being slain in the spirit left and right and Nothing happened to me. He moved on and I was left standing there with my hands in the air feeling stupid and unspiritual. There were deliverances going on around me people screaming OUT IN JESUS NAME! and I thought it looked mad. I later said to a friend of mine there, ” I am not sure if all this is from the holy spirit”. He clasped his hand over his mouth and said ” You have blasphemed the holy spirit” . I replied ” thanks very much I am going to hell now”. He said “Oh I didnt mean it that way “. Too late the damage was done. But worse was to come. I went outside to go home and a thought seemed to shoot into my mind “Is Jesus really the way”. I stated to think had I believed in vain , how did I know, after all i saw no miracle or angels or anything, I simply but profoundly heard a voice in my head as I was seeking Jesus say ” just believe” which I did. You know the rest from other posts.Anyway there was a friend walking with me and I was about to verbalise my thought but felt a check in my spirit saying ” Dont say it” but i thought to myself “well if I thought it I might as well say it” and I said to my friend is Jesus really the way. We were actually standing outside at the time and he was preoccupied and didnt hear me but I know this, the minute I said it I regretted saying it and it was like I was denying Jesus. I lost All the Joy of my salvation and it has not returned fully since then. I dont think even its an issue of joy but assurance rather. You see in my head I made the equasion that If I am saved by grace through faith then if I doubted the Lord even for a minute then did I truly believe. My world plunged into fear. Two days later I read a book by Reese Howells the intecessor which blew me away but right at the end he says that some people have only made a mental assent to the Gospel and I tought “Thats ME” Thats Why I doubted. And since that day fifteen years ago I have suffered in my head and heart. Yes I believe but that night of doubt never goes away. I have repented of it a thousand times and even felt the Lord say to me one night as I was in tears ” its forgiven, dont bring it up again”. But what does feel mean. I didnt hear words just got an impression in my spirit. But what does that mean. Sites are full of stories or rebukes for people who felt the lord say this or that,
And that is why I get freaked because i dont speak in tongues because to some quarters it is a sign of being filled with the holy spirit or even the new birth. I have recounted this story a thousand times and people point out the doubts of John the baptist and the disciples in the upper room but it only helps to a point. So then I stopped asking for a sign i.e the gift of toungues and just got on with it. Now I feel guilty for not asking for it.I know I am changed because I cannot take the Lords name in vain and feel conviction for sin and love to worship and read Gods word and I have thought and talked about hardly anything else but Jesus for the last sixteen years but the verse ” Away from me I never knew” you terrifies me at times.And this was to people who exercised spiritual gifts it seems .
Miriam do you think my moment of doubt was ok. You see I was really angry and confused about what that person said to me and incidently he has gone kind of mad since then and slags of people preaching in the street but I still feel love for him. The other thing is what about the speaking of toungues at pentecost.It does not look like anyone checked them out or there was even a hint to do so. Is not the spirits that deny that Jesus has come in the flesh come from false teachers. An example that comes to mind is where one said that Jesus was a man anointed by God who was born again in hell and became the son of God then. Anyway , sorry about the long post and if it detracts from the discussion please delete it.
Greg
Greg,
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and . Stop dwelling on the past. That is just the enemy condemning you, not God.
Miriam
Got a few questions about speaking in tongues and it goes way back to when I was about 5 years old. My granny used to take me with her to church where I attended the Sunday school.
Anyhow, one day, the teacher asked, ‘who would like to speak in tongues?’ I raised my hand. So they took all of us outside (6 of us kids) and told us to hold hands in a circle. Then the teacher told us to repeat after her. And she would say a word, which sounded pretty Hebrew to me, and we repeated it. Then she said another word which we had to repeat and so it went on and on. By the time she reached the 3rd word I (at the tender age of 5) began to think there was something horribly wrong with the proceedings. The other kids had grasped at least 6 words by now, however I was still trying to memorize the 2nd word. I felt quite stupid to say the least and became very sad for I felt that I was not clever enough to speak in tongues. But the holy spirit told me already when the process started that what was going on was NOT right.
I am 33 years old now (giving away my age haha) and I still can’t speak in tongues. About 3 months ago my next door neighbor who is a pastor came to visit my husband and I and got onto the topic of speaking in tongues. He asked me if I wanted to speak in tongues and I said most definitely yes. So we prayed together and after a while a word popped into my head, then a second, then a third and shortly after I had a full sentence going. But I never felt the Holy Spirit. Afterwards I did not feel as joyful as I thought I should have.
So the next morning I awoke and the entire day felt like I was floating with joy. I felt like the entire worlds problems had been lifted off my shoulders. It was awesome. Problem came with the next day, I awoke and felt like I had died and entered a horrible place of torment. I was angry, miserable and felt like the entire worlds problems and then some had crashed on top of me.
I wondered what on earth was going on and came to the conclusion that I don’t think the tongues I spoke was from the Holy Spirit. Because I do not think that the Holy Spirit would make me feel so terribly. When I mentioned it to the pastor he said, ‘oh that might just be satan attacking you trying to ruin it for you.’ That didn’t make sense to me either.
Never the less I came across your website and read the above article and it put everything into perspective for me. But I still got a few questions that need answering and I am hoping that you can help.
1) God says that there are many gifts and that not everyone will get these gifts and this includes speaking in tongues?
Yet it almost seems a pre-requisite that if you are a Christian you should be able to speak in tongues. When I was baptized I did not come out of the water speaking in tongues, but what did happen to me was this; my past had been completely erased from my mind - it became a distant memory, so distant that it became hard work trying to remember. I felt like a new person altogether with the cleanest slate ever.
2) I spoke to a minister the other day who said the strangest thing, he said, there are 3 types of spiritual tongues:
a) where you speak in tongues in prayer to God (personal)
- this seems to take place in a church of 500+
people and everyone is speaking in tongues except
me - how is this possible?
b) where someone speaks in tongues and someone interprets
- last time I saw this take place in a church was
about 10 years ago
c) where God can allow someone to speak in a human
language other than their own to convey a message to
someone who doesn’t understand your mother tongue.
- this is new to me and I can’t find this in the
bible, maybe I’ve overlooked it.
I have given up asking God to speak in tongues because I am not sure if that’s what He wants me to have. Is this right of me to think this way?
I think I have the gift of discernment, but how can I be sure? All I can say to answer that question is that I discern everything I read and see, people included.
Also how does one know if they have the gift of prophecy; how and where does it start and can you ask God for this gift.
But then again…it goes back to my question above. Should we be asking for gifts that God doesn’t want us to have anyway because he knows us and knows where and how to use us?
Thanks
Deborah: what you were taught as a child was rubbish. You were right to question it! I also question a teacher encouraging children so young into this gift anyway (true or false) but she had no idea of the true gift anyway. What she was doing was teaching you some language, just like French - it was no tongues just a pseudo language lesson. It was false and not the Spirit.
What your neigbor pastor taught you also, likewise sounds off. Though Satan does attack to rob, maim, kill and destroy, you may well have recieved a counterfeit anointing with the counterfeit gift which may cause spiritual depression etc. I urge you to ask God’s forgiveness, release and cleansing from this and discernment and wisdom.
In my experience, the words have never come to mind first, but they have flowed out of my mouth as the Spirit has given me unction. On a couple of rare occasions (without concious effort or decision on my point) my voice has gotten louder and stronger and thus became a public message to be interpreted.
When I have seen people truly baptised in the Holy Spirit, when they get tongues it is suddenly a complete fluency, not one word here or there coming to their minds first. It is like a bubbling brook flowing out from within and when the true gift has been manifested I have felt strength or anointing or power on my tongue too like a weight which does not actually weigh anything, hard to describe really but I am aware of it - I even ‘feel’ and know the words going out have extra power on them. I have had this when preaching or prophesying in English too (not always) - I believe some people call it unction, though not all feel it in the same way and not just because you do not feel unction does not mean the words have no power.
If the true gift we can be in control in the sense that we know what we are doing while we are doing it (though have no part of the specific words formed), and can stop it right away if we want to. If people are not in control in this sense it is not the true gift, same as prophecy - if someone starts yelling out and claims they had no control they either lie or have a false gift.
It is my understanding that there are many spiritual gifts and many workings of the gifts in differant people, and God wills exactly how this occurs and decides people’s strengths and prominent gift clusters and how they reside. To that extent man cannot control it (except eagerly desire and yield to God) and be part of a united body that together will mainfest the fullness of the Spirit in all His variations.
For example I personally by my own will would desire healing above every other gift, but although that has manifested on occasions when I have prayed, I prominently flow in the word gifts instead: prophecy, evangelism, tongues and teaching. This is God’s Will and I will go with that as I must, but if I were wanting to be a healing minister (only) and not a prophet I would be in trouble as it is not God’s will for me - I would not have the spiritual power backup or the strength of gifting. Therefore understand that though it is God’s desire and will that people get healed when I pray, and also sometimes for me to ‘pastor’ people etc, and I will have everything I spiritually need when I need it as I tap into God’s resources not my own, I do not think I have a resident gift of healing that I can readily tap into as easily as I do prophecy. Although I can have faith God will answer my requests just like any others based on his word, healing is not to be my sole focus so my strengths will not lie there - do you see what I am saying? The differance? I cannot will how the gifts flow and my strengths. However I do believe that every believer baptised in the Holy Spirit can have tongues as well as prophecy and every other gift - to some extent - if they press into God etc. The extent is up to God, and also how the believer fans it into flame.
As far as asking, just ask in prayer like you would for anything else. God will lead you in this area, and you will know when God speaks to you, you will not need anyone to tell you. I aim to be posting more articles in time about how I first started seeing and hearing prophetically, which may help you, but bear in mind everyone is differant - or should be if operating in the true - if everyone starts doing the same by the exact same path then it is a sign the counterfeit is afoot!
As for what the pastor said about how tongues operates. He is right in the sense there are differant outworkings (but it is the same gift). However the apostle Paul counsels not to do a) in public as it is not edifying or orderly. As for c) this is like what is mentioned in Acts where everybody heard the apostles speaking in his own tongue.
Thank you Miriam. Thank you
Miriam,
Don’t know where else to post this comment, but do you know of any sound bible study courses (be it online or order via mail)?
I’ve been surfing the net a lot looking at online bible studies and the ones I’ve come across don’t seem sound in what they say on some topics. I want to deeply further my knowledge on God, but I am kind of stuck because I just don’t know where to go to find good bible courses.
However, when I am looking online for bible studies I keep hearing the holy spirit telling me I am looking in the wrong place. I feel the Holy Spirit telling me to just pick up my bible and start reading it and pray for wisdom to understand.
I am wondering if you could assist.
Thanks
Deborah
One young man lay on the ground for hours earnestly pleading for tongues. In another instance the subject had been urged by charismatic tutors to keep repeating the word “Hallelujah” until he could break out in tongues. In both cases the subjects did acquire the coveted ability. Later testing, however, revealed that in each case a demon had entered the victim and had imparted the glossolalia. In the latter case the tongues demon was named Hallelujah.
By Gerald E. McGraw
Jack Hayford told at a conference how his own daughter approached him was afraid that she was speaking mere gibberish, but he encouraged her that the believer must first learn to speak in baby tongues before he speaks in adult tongues.
This of course is rubbish!
I posted a comment on 22 October about my experience gained over 23 years of deliverance. I can only restate my belief that anyone who speaks in tongues should obey the scripture in 1 John 4:1-4. This scripture was given to the Apostle by the Holy spirit so that the counterfeit of the Devil could be uncovered.
Those who do not obey this scripture could be uttering blasphemys against our Lord Jesus Christ. Several spirits when confronted and exposed said how the tongue was praising Satan and cursing Christ and His precious Blood. We will be held accountable for every word that comes out of our mouths.
I would recomend several authors that have kept hundreds of case notes on this subject. George Birch, Gerald McGraw, AE Raurk, Neil K Foster.
Ernest Rockstad, a pioneer in the testing of supernatural tongues has some actual deliverance sessions on the website
http://www.faithandlifeministries.com
There are also two DVDs that expose the extreme Tele evangelists like Copeland, Hinn, Hagen etc. They are
The Blind and the Dead by Texe Marrs and Wolves among the Sheep also available from Cutting edge Ministries.
I personally believe that these signs and wonders are part of the great falling away as prophesed in the endtimes. Many hundreds flock to these charlitans and heritics and just accept what comes out of their mouthes as the truth instead of being Good Bereans and checking scripture.
Reading all this concerns me. It seems like no one is willing to believe that the Holy Spirit has true vessels for His expression in these current times. I will admit that there are fake tongues, but the real thing is around too. If the devil is imitating God, then God must be doing something also. I have seen people “fake it” to get attention, but the Holy Spirit is truly on this earth at this time, and He will really those who submit to Him.
I pray in tongues. And I would confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh, if I was tested. The thought of using any kind of foul language, or blaspheming God, horrifies me. Those kind of words just cannot come out of me. They are just not there. I would rather die than speak against God.
When I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, I was alone with Him, and asked to know Him better. I knew I was inviting someone very holy into my inner self. I felt a deep thirst, hunger and love for God that could not be satisfied. I had spend hours upon hours in my room alone, praying for his presence to invade my life, because I wanted to only have Him for company. It is still like that to this day, because he is my greatest love. When I received the baptism of the holy spirit, it was because I had asked God to come into my spirit, and sanctify me for his purpose. I could not leave prayer that day until I had received, because I was so thirsty for the living water that he promised me. I was not asking for a “gift.” I was asking for a Person. When the tongues came into my spirit during prayer time, it was really like scripture described. A new language took over the other one, and a language I never knew flowed out of me, and poured out of me for 2 hours, making me feel like I was in ecstasy. It was like I was a well, and holy living water was gushing out of me. As I prayed, I wept and rejoiced at the same time. A sense of intimacy and awe overwhelmed me. It was like I had just fallen in love all over again with Him. As I prayed, I was aware of the meanings of some of the words. I was getting to know my Father, and I was pouring my heart out to Him. To this day, I only have partial awareness of what I am saying, and the rest is a mystery to me. The part I do understand is dealing with sanctification, and petitions to God, to know his will, asking God to hear those petitions, and praying for peace.
thank you
marianne
http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/
Hello everyone,
I have been reading the comments here. One thing I’ve learned since being a believer is that there will always be fearful, hyperfaith, hyperspiritual people who will spoil your salvation if you let them. I know, because it has happened to me and is happening to me. Concerning the Holy Ghost, His purpose is to endow the believer with power from on high. He gives us keeping power. What may be hard for someone without the Holy Ghost, may not be so hard for a person who has been filled. I agree, you must be careful who you allow to lay hands on you. Just because someone claims this or that, you don’t know what kind of spirits they’re carrying.
I honestly don’t believe that if I have given my life to my Savior and asked Him to give me His gift of the Holy Ghost, that He would allow me to be filled with a devil. When I gave my life to Christ last April in my bedroom. I knew the importance of being Spirit filled. I began to read His Word and I simply said Lord I want the Holy Ghost and within me I heard, felt, a better word may be I perceived I should praise Him. I stood up lifted my hands to heaven and began to think of the goodness of God and thanked and praised Him. Tears began to flow and a little while later my mouth began speaking unknown words. Jesus said that if your father being evil knows how to give good gifts how much more does your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask. If I ask God for His gift why would He give me Beelzebub? I believe the Bible before I believe spooked out people who think everything God does is of the devil somehow. This is the same thing that drove Christ to the cross. Either you’re saved or not right? So if there is no in betweens how can I give my heart to Christ and ask Him to fill me with His power and then be filled with the devil. No, I won’t be condemned by that one.
We must discipline ourselves and study this precious Word for ourselves, serve the Lord with clean hands and a pure heart. Otherwise everything that comes along will rattle you and cause you to doubt your very salvation. There’s a war going on all the time. May God keep us all in these last days.
Kay,
I agree with you. I don’t see in scripture where any christian can repentent from their sins, give their lives to God and yet carry around a demon. An yet there are ministries that border on if are not occultic with the mixing of christianity. I am convinced in these days and times that the laying on of hands can impart a fowl spirit especially when you look at ministries that endorse ungodly manifestations and call it the Holy Spirit. But that desn’t mean all tongues are of the devil. Miriam never said that. We must be vigillant and stay close to the Lord.
As you said “We must discipline ourselves and study this precious Word for ourselves, serve the Lord with clean hands and a pure heart.”
I have been in deliverance ministry since 1985 you must always test the Spirits and discern. The spirit realms knows your weaknesses doubts and fears, which will be used against you. Align yourself with Gods will for your life. We have to change the image of Christian culture throughout the world. Trust in God without any doubts and He will put you in the right place at the right time.
When I was a little girl, and beyond, I heard from many people in my family and out of family that the language of my paternal grandfather (magyar) was “not a REAL language”. It was the language of gypsies and lowlifes. My grandfather was shamed into not using his family’s “home tongue” ever. My beloved, saintly grandmother believed this as well. I had never in my whole life, that I remember, hearing this language.
I found out yesterday that the “tongue” I have been speaking in for the last twenty-some years is Magyar. Does this mean that God knows and understands the Magyar language, or that I am speaking in a false tongue “lowlife gypsy” language? I know the answer already, praise be to God!!!