On false prophets, strange fire, wolves in sheeps clothing
I have been researching the history of spiritual manifestations, and specifically the history and works of the French Prophets, of whom both John Wesley and Charles Wesley* (see footnote 1) decribed as ‘devils’. Charles Wesley found himself in a situation where one of these French prophets became his bed-fellow. As they got ready for bed, Charles reports that this prophet “fell into violent agitations and gobbled like a turkey. I was frightened and began exorcising him with, ‘Thou deaf and dumb devil,’ etc. He soon recovered out of his fit of inspiration. I prayed and went to bed, not half-liking my bed-fellow. I did not sleep very sound with Satan so near me.”
John Wesley wrote: “… So many have been awakened, justified, and soon after perfected in love; but even while they are full of love, Satan strives to push many of them to extravagance. This appears in several instances: … Some of them, perhaps many, scream all together as loud as they possibly can… Several drop down as dead; and are as stiff as a corpse; but in a while they start up, and cry, “Glory! glory!” perhaps twenty times together. Just so do the French Prophets, and very lately the Jumpers in Wales, bring the real work into contempt…. I think there needs no great penetration to understand this. They are honest, upright men, who really fell the love of God in their hearts. But they have little experience, either of the ways of God or the devices of Satan. So he serves himself of their simplicity, in order to wear them out and to bring a discredit on the work of God.”
While researching the movement and the other movements such as the Shakers and other millenerian sects it birthed or affected, I came across a wonderful, but rare, book by Charles Chauncy. The book is full of specific narratives related to the French prophets, the English prophets whom they birthed, and other ‘moves of the Spirit’ in history including the Quakers. The book was written in 1741, and published in Boston in 1742 (at the time of the First Great Awakening), but reading firsthand accounts in this book is like reading accounts of modern day Pentecostalism/Charimaticalism - particularly the Toronto Blessing http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2007/08/23/lying-signs-and-wonders-gold-dust-and-jewels/ and Patricia King/Extreme Prophetic phenomona http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2007/08/23/lying-signs-and-wonders-gold-dust-and-jewels/ - except I have to say the 18th century folk were considerably more pious and God fearing than in our day, and the preaching is considerably lighter, more frothy and less convicting nowadays. However, despite the age of this book, I still recognise ‘testimonies’ mirrored from years ago of many prominent Charismatic/Pentecostal leaders of today! Read what Rodney Howard-Browne says for example about the death and falsely prophesied resurrection of his daughter Kelly in 2002** (footnote 2), and then compare it to the infamous Dr Thomas Emes affair in London in 1707/1708. Surely it is the same spirit that works in many of today’s leaders as with John Lacy, John Potter and Dr Emes! And what better way to describe Benny Hinn style ministry than with a three hundred year old account from Knox, who claimed that when the preacher shouted people fell on their backs while this preacher ‘conducted them’ with his hand movements as if they were some kind of orchestra? No wonder the expression ’sacred theatre’ was used to descibe this movement’s behaviour!
Amazing things seemed to have happened among the French prophets (better even than todays’ stuff within the church): signs and wonders in the sky, manifestations galore called ‘agitations’, people slain in the spirit, incredible visions and prophecy even among children and babies not yet talking, encounters with angels, visions and visits to heaven and hell, real healings and the ability to speak in and understand other languages (not the same as modern tongues), – and then there was persecution and even martyrdom among these believers. The manifestations of possession of a ’spirit’ became outward signs of an inner expedience, a sacred theatre as believers acted out their ‘possession’ before others. Yet despite these many signs and wonders, it is clear for all this that it cannot have been the Spirit of God these same prophets speaking by an agitated spirit spoke by, despite all of these ‘miracles’, for their words did not come to pass and they also contradicted scripture in both practice and content. Though they started off with their words sounding scriptural enough (though they did not know what they were actually saying most of the time, many prophesying in their sleep like a kind of robot), they were soon led into heresy and blasphemy, as well as sinful lifestyles including preaching stripped naked, adultery, murder and all out war – The War of the Camisards. All these actions, apparently, were ’led by the Spirit’) (see footnote 3). If we follow the scriptural advice of the book of I John in testing the spirits, the bad fruit alone indicates it was NOT a true anointing of the Holy Spirit, for the true Spririt only leads into truth and holiness.
John Lacy, the leader of the English prophets, repeatedly asserted that there was no way the spirit that he spoke and wrote by and channelled (by automatic writing and ‘automatic speaking’ (for want of a better word) could possibly have been the devil. He could not even entertain such a notion, for he says he was led by his experiences and manifestations into much greater ecstasies and love and passion for God etc. He was, by all accounts, a devoted believer as were his companions. Fervant they were indeed, even ‘addicted’ or ‘obsessed’ with what they admitted was an insatiable thirst for ‘more’. Yet the writer of this book, Charles Chauncy, demonstrates that ‘religious enthusiasm’ as he puts it, is historically marked by extraordinary religiousness, zealousness and devotion and intenseness, even when veering far off course and being markedly led by false spirits. Thus having a zeal for God or even scripture is not a true test of the divine nature of any visions and experiences. Decieving spirits truly do come as angels of light, especially initially where they quote whole chunks of scipture word perfect. It is only gradually heresies and factions seems to creep in, and the people get led astray. Reading the accounts of Thomas Case of the Quakers, who was able to get anyone to manifest against their will just by looking at them, and get people ‘converted’ against their wills merely by breathing on them – though they became as zombies following their converter around like a puppy not even knowing why – surely indicates the spirit he operated under was not the Spirit of God. Yet I know if accounts of his story were read out in many modern day church meetings the people would go wild, wanting his ‘anointing’!
It is also interesting that the work in France – the Hugeuenot prophecy - was primarily a youth led ‘revival’, that concentrated on ecstatic singing, and although these things affected all ages and sexes, by far the largest sector affected was the youth. Babes literally had words put in the mouth by the ’spirit’. I certainly do not despise God working among youth, or anyone because of their young years; but for a ‘move of the Spirit’ and a prophetic movement at that to be primarilly made up of the under eighteens – and illiterate ones at that who are unable to test revealed ‘truths’ against scripture – causes obvious issues with discernment, testing and wisdom and the possibility of being led far off into error. I compare this to today’s church to where the major moves with the ‘new’ prophetic are happening among the young – they are even specifically targetted and prophesied about. I have lost count of the number of times I heard Vineyard and Kansas City prophets harp on about the under 25s being a special generation. Though people of all ages lack discernment and get seduced, this focus on youth, this targetting of youth, who are far easier to manipulate and decieve, causes concern in the light of history.
Read this account and learn from it. It is a long post but this material is not available anywhere elsewhere in the net, the book is long out of print, and I believe it is incredibly important. Please note that I have changed the old fashioned English into modern day English and edited this in many parts to try and curtail the length of it.
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‘The wonderful narrative or a faithful account of the French Prophets, their agitations, ecstasies and inspirations. To which are added, several other instances of persons under a like spirit, in various parts of the world, particularly in New England.’ written in Newhaven January 1741, and published 1742
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Of the Pretenders to Inspiration… compare the strangest and most unaccountable instances (of theirs) in the following (book), with the miracles recorded in the Gospel, and they will sink into mere nothing – they carry with them, when closely examined, the plain marks of enthusiasm, or collusion, or Satanic possession….. They are indeed a confirmation of the Gospel, ‘For can there be copies without originals? Or Counterfeits without realities? Do not false coiners imitate the noblest of metals? Or do clippers work on anything but gold or silver?’ Besides, it ought to be remembered, the rise of false prophets, mere pretenders to inspiration, is one of the things particularly foretold in the gospel of Christ: so that their appearance in the world is the completion of prophecy, as it were a seal put to the Bible, by the hand of providence, the more fully to raitify its divine authority.
If by the Work of God any should understand that falling down, and screaming out, and swooning away, in the time of preaching, or after the preacher has just left the house of worship: those visions or representations to the bodily sight, of Christ and the Devil, those trances, wherein the subjects of them have a clear and distinct view of heaven and hell, of the process of the Last Judgment, of the Book of Life, with the names of particular persons wrote there, those extravagents fits of laughing, unchristian censoriousness and the like: I say if by the work of God, any should mean such as these, which are now grown common, in one place and another, in this and other governments, I readily acknowledge I have no opinion of them, as fruits of the Spirit of God, and can’t but express my fears, what may be the effect of the appearance of such things among us; especially if well spoken of and encouraged, as, by too many, they certainly are. And I confess with all freedom the great design I had in view, in publishing these papers, was to show that appearances in this kind are no signs of the extraordinary influences of the Spirit of God; but rather administer grounds of suspicion, whether the persons thus affected, are not under the power of a disturbed imagination.
Who are the persons who see visions and fall into trances, and make pretences to the Spirit in an extraordinary manner?…It is a strong presumption therefore against them, that they have a strange fire working in them, when they are seized with swoonings, and have bodily representations of those things which are to be spiritually to be discerned: because these signs are common among enthusiasts of all sorts, but seldom, or never, among solid Christians. In the beginning of the Reformation, there were swarms of those who pretended to these extraordinary matters; but they were always esteemed a clog to the Reformation, and the disgrace of it, nor are visions and trances more common anywhere than among the papists.
Not that I wonder that the common people, who are unacquainted with these things, have been surprised; yea even astonished at the shriekings, faintings, and agonies, they have been witnesses to. And if by seeing and hearing these things in others, they have themselves been, in like manner affected, it is no more than can be expected…and if in many persons, the imagination has been heated to a degree sufficient to give them sights and visions, neither is this any more than has happened in thousands of instances in all parts and ages of the world….
But it will, doubtless, be here said, there is a great deal of that….that must be acknowledged as true religion, mixed with that, which some may think to be the effect of imagination. This I will not deny: however this is worth the remarking, that in all the subsequent instances of enthusiasm and delusion, there is a mighty show and appearance, even of that, which is the heights of religion. Who ever pretended to more initmate converse with God, than the French Prophets? They were often in raptures and ravishments from supposed divine communications. Who ever pretended to greater acts of resignation to the divine will, of patience under reproaches and injuries, of the most tender love, not only to each other but to all mankind? Who ever pretended greater zeal against sin and for the flourishing of Christ’s Kingdom? Or to more insatiable thirst after continual waiting on God in the duties of his worship?….And indeed it has always been in the way of enthusiasm and delusion to appear in the guise of religion; yea, to be so religious, as to be superstitious, being flamingly zealous for a being righteous over much.
Not that I deny (as I hinted before) that there may be a mixture of real Christianity with great enthusiasm. I am inclined to think it was thus, at least a first with the Montanists and the French Prophets. And I doubt not that the unusual appearance among us has been a means to rouse many who were before thoughtless and to quicken many who had fallen into slumber. I am not against allowing that a good number have (probably) been converted into Saints, and as great a number of Saints enlivened in their Christian work. Though I would not be thought to judge thus from anything that has been observed of these persons, either as to their temper or behaviour, while their passions have been in a violent commotion, much less while they have been seeing visions or falling into trances. It is impossible while in such circumstances, but that such persons should be religious, and this to a high degree. Thus it has been this way with all visionaries. It was so in all the instances mentioned in these papers. The only safe way, therefore, of judging in this case (as it appears to me), is to do it from what many be seen and known of these persons when they have got back to a calm and quiet state of mind. And if, when their passions are subsided, and their imaginations cooled, they now continue to discover a truly Christian temper and conduct, there is reason to hope well concerning them. And this I would hope is the case of many among us at present.
But let this not be made a plee to justify those things, which are evidently the fruit of mere imagination, or something worse, for if such things are encouraged, no one can tell what they will come to, or where they will end. We should take warning of what we may learn here by others…(their work has) filled the towns with faction and schism and general confusion.
I would caution all, against being prejudiced against (the Spirit of God’s) influences upon the hearts of man, because so many enthusiasts have in vain pretended to them; and this in an extraordinary degree and manner: and at the same time I would advise those, who have seen visions and been in trances and ecstatic raptures, to beware of thinking the better of themseleves for this account, rather of encouraging a jealousy of themselves, lest their imaginations should have been too much raised. And I cannot but express it as my earnest wish for them, that they would not rest satisfied in a hope of their good estate, upon any thing short of having evidently among them, the essential marks of the real disciples of Christ; which are common to all that are good Christians, and never to be found but in conjunction with a sanctified heart and life.
I find myself contrained to express the surprise I have been in, when I have heard from preachers from the pulpit, and others from the press, condemn those who are not in their way of thinking upon the religious appearances among us; representing them as enemies of God and Christ, and the blessed Spirit, and as in danger (at least some of them) of sinning the unpardonable sin, the sin against the Holy Ghost, if not already actually guilty of it….. Many solid and judicious persons , of an established reputation for exemplary piety, in many places have been greatly offended at the goings on in the land, and greatly fear the consequences of them. And it seems to me to savour of a strange spirit, to put the present state of affairs so far upon a level with the state of things in the days of Christ, as to make those, who are (if you will) enemies to the present work and violent opposers of it, sinners to the same degree of guilt as were those opposed to Jesus Christ himself, who was approved by God by miracles, and wonders, and signs, which he did in the midst of the people as they themselves knew….And shall those, who by some are repesented as opposers of the work going on among us, (this work without any miracles as yet, but with many disorders and irregularities also) be represented as sinners equally guilty with those (who opposed Christ’s mission to his face) arising from the miracles in their midst? It is conceded, there is guilt in denying the influences of the Spirit, especially when they are obvious and remarkable: But is there not guilt likewise, under the pretence of honouring the Holy Ghost, to make him the author of those things which cannot be ascribed to him?… It is impossible the divine spirit should be the author of faction and contention, of bitterness, censoriousness, pride, ostentation; or any kind of confusions or disorders: neither does it seem to me to be the honour of the Spirit of God, to attribute those swoonings, and faintings, and visions and trances to his immediate agency. It is making that to be his work which the gospel knows nothing of; and is indeed quite foreign to the design of his being given to men…
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From the month of June, 1688, to the end of February following, there arose is Dauphiny, and then in Vervais, five or six hundred protestants of both sexes, who gave themselves to be prophets, and inspired of the Holy Ghost. The sect of the inspired soon became numerous, the valleys swarmed with them and the mountains became covered: the enthusiasm spread itself like a flood, and with such a torrent… this flew from parish to parish and soon there were many thousands of them: they had strange fits, and their fits came upon them with trembling and faintings, as in a swoon, which made them stretch out their arms and legs and stagger several times before they dropped down, they struck themselves with their hands, they fell on their backs, they shut their eyes, they heaved with their breasts, they remained a while in trances, and coming out of them with twitchings they uttered all that came into their mouths, they said they saw the heavens opened, the angels, paradise and hell – those, who were just on the point of recieving the gift or Spirit of prophecy, dropped down, not only in the assemblies crying out ‘Mercy!’ but in the fields and in their own houses. The least of their assemblies made up four or five hundred, and some of them amounted to three or four thousand persons.
When an assembly was appointed, the men, women, boys and girls, and even very young children came (and before daybreak too)..to the place appointed. When the prophets for a while had been under agitations of body, they began to prophesy; the burden of their prophecies was, Amend your lives, repent ye, the End of all things draws nigh. They made loud cries for mercy: the hills rebounded with the cry of mercy! and with imprecations against the priests, against the church, against the pope, and against the Antichristian dominion, with predictions of the approaching fall of popery – all they said at these times was received with reverence and awe – persons of good understanding knew not what to think of it, to hear little boys and young girls (of the dregs of mankind who could not so much as read) quote many texts of the holy scripture.
But two sorts of persons terribly opposed the propagation of this Spirit of Prophecy: the justices who imprisoned these prophets, and the soldiers who had orders to fall upon their meetings. In one assembly on the mountain of Cheilaril there were about three hundred slain on the spot, a hundred were killed on the hill of Bassel, and some other executions were performed elsewhere. And while Colonel Folville dispersed these assemblies by military executions, Mr de Basville judged (without ceasing) the prisoners brought before him from all parts; the intendent, Mr Bouchu, likewise sent the inspired to prophesy in the prisons of Grenoble….but they showed the greatest firmness, even at the stake or gibbet: and notwithstanding all the military executions and juridicial processes, there still remained in the Cervennes some embers of this flame.
…. John Vernett of Bois-Chattel, in the Viverais, declared at London, January 14th 1706, that the first persons he saw under the inspiration, were his own mother, brother, his two sisters and a cousin: that his mother spoke (at the times of inspiration) only French, which surprisrd him exceedlingy, because she never (before her inspirations) attempted to speak a word in that language, nor has since to his knowledge, and he is certain she could not do it; he says the same of his sisters, and that they all urged their hearers to amendments of life, and pressed it upon him in particular (who was then a little loose) to be sobre; he declares among other things, that he with two of his acquaintance went to see a friend of theirs near Vernoux; that as they were drinking together at his house, a girl came to call her mother who was with them, saying, Come mother and see the child! Soon after the mother coming to the back door of the room where they were, called them to come and see the babe that spoke; bidding them not to be frightened, for that miracle had happened before. They all ran immediately; the child was thirteen or fourteen months old, and covered then in a cradle, and had never of itself spoken a word, nor could it go alone. When they were come in where it it was, the child spoke distinctly in French, with a voice small like a child, but loud enough to be well heard all over the room. It exhorted, like others in that condition, to works of repentence…..(there was also) much talk of a sucking child at Clieu, in Dauphiny, who used to preach by inspiration.
This testimony….coincides with a great number of other facts here related as deposed upon oath, by different persons, in different places. I remember but two or three other instances more of children so young, who spoke under inspiration; but there are numerous instances of children three, and four, or five years old, and so on to fifteen or sixteen, who being seized with agitation and ecstasies delivered long exhortations under inspiration.
Claud Arnassau, of Mentel, near Alez, delared: …’One day I was in the company of forty people, or thereabouts, whom I had invited to an assembly at a certain place; when we came to the place appointed, we found nobody and judged there had happened some reason to have the meeting elsewhere; while we were musing what to do, one of us (whether he had the gift I know not) said, Brethren, let us pray to God, and he will direct us. He was no sooner on his knees, than there appeared in the air, a light, like a large star, which advanced pointing to the place where the assembly was met half a league from us….’
(There was a shepherd) named Peter Bernaut (so silly, he was next to an idiot) who I did venture to bring to an assembly by night. I observed him to keep upon his knees for two hours together at least, then the gift seized him, he was struck as it were dead: and after some time had violent agitations of body. He returning home, the Spirit came upon him again the following day, at which time his bodily motions were so great, that being on his back, the whole body leapt from the ground. We were all afraid he would hurt himself on the pavement: he continued to batter himself in that manner, that his hair was as wet as sweat, as if dipped in water; two or three times he was taken with these violent contortions without speaking; at length he said, it was for his sins he had thus been tormented. (End times note, has Christ not done enough already?!) After that, in other inspirations, he spoke aloud, quoting appositely many texts of scripture, and all to press us earnestly to a good life. As for this man, I am certain he could not read, he never was at divine worship but at that time, nor was he capable of being instructed by any person whatsoever, to speak the things he did in his inspirations.
James du Bois of Montpellier declared…: ‘I saw persons inspired in diverse parts of the country, in all, at least two hundred, at various times and places, of every age and sex: I saw among others a boy of fifteen months of age at Quisac, taken in the arms of his mother, with great agitations of body all over, especially of the breast; he spoke with gulpings of the throat, in good French distinctly, with an audience voice, though with interuptions…This infant’s speech was, as if God spoke always using this manner of things: ‘I say unto thee my child’ and the like. The said infant was with his mother clapt up in prison….I have seen sixty other children between three and twelve years of age, in the same condition, the discourses of all which tended constantly to press with ardour an amendment of life, and foretold also several things. Being in the valley, called the Combe Renard, at a friend’s house, a boy, who fled to shelter himself in that house, being at the age of six years, fell into the motions of the head and breast, spoke aloud in good French many arguments to repentence, with some predictions, and said, among other things, that one part of Babylon the Great would be destroyed in 1708. (A false prophecy)
Another boy of eight years old, I heard in his inspirations at Montpellier prophesy regarding the re-establishment of the reformed religion in France – I have seen at several times, the persons inspired of both sexes, in the times of their trances have their eyes open, and commonly lifted up to heaven, who said, that they then saw armies of angels, sometimes those angels engaged in warfare against armies of man, and diverse other things I cannot distinctly remember. It happened many a time, that when the people were to return home from the assemblies, some one or other, speaking in his rapture, declared that God would make balls of fire fall from heaven, to dazzle the eyes of their enemies for their security in returning home, which proved so several times indeed by night: for I have often seen them on that occasion.
The book ‘A Relation of several hundreds of children and others that prophesie and preach in their sleep &c. first examined and admired by several ingenious men’ recounts: Some people began to preach the gospel with so many signs and wonders that it would make you tremble. They are people of all ages and sexes, although the greatest part of them are boys and girls… they preach almost day and night without ceasing…there are some that preach whilst asleep, others while awake. If there be any notorious sinners in the assembly, those poor preachers call them to them, and fall into terrible torments until such time as the sinners come to them…..they make public prayers for sinners, and if those sinners repent, and God pardons them, they themselves fall to the ground as dead, without any appearance of life, and when they come to themselves they feel an happiness and contentment which they are not able to express. It happens likewise that other members, who are not so great sinners, fall to the ground in the same manner. There falls down sometimes twenty or thirty at once. And as fast as they fall, and especially when it is a great sinner, those poor preachers make great expressions of joy, and remain sometimes in a swoon, as in an ecstasy, saying that they see the heavens opened, and our Lord pouring out his blessing upon them. They say within x days the persecution will be over….they speak very great things of the king, the conclusion whereof is this: that he shall know the truth and be converted….’ (False prophecy)
In the year 1706, three or four of these French Prophets came over into England, and brought their prophetic spirit along with them, which discovered itself in the same way and manners, in ecstasies, and agitations and inspirations under them as it had done in France: and they propagated the like spirit to others, so that before the year was out, there were about two or three hundred of these prophets in and about London, of all ages, men, women and children….Mr John Lacy* was the chief of the English Prophets. (He said:) I can say that (the French prophets’) agitations did never make an impression on my mind or imagination such as to promote an imitation of them, or even an inclination to it: for the space of at least eighteen days before mine came upon me, I had seen none of them, and mine were so entirely differant from any of theirs, that it is altogether unlikely, that the force of imagination (as some without due consideration have fancied) could produce them.
‘The first symptom of the emotions upon my body surprised me in the instant of awaking on the first day of March…those agitations, in a various manner, and hardly to be described, continued more or less upon me until the 12th day of June, before the word was put in my mouth….the bodily impressions were gradually increasing on me, until the effect, or rather issue of them, was produced: viz the opening of mouth to speak. (End times note: Thus Lacy is saying the end of these odd manifestations is prophecy).
‘They began by a preternal course of breathing; then my head came to be agitated and shaken violently, and forcibly, and with a very quick motion horizontally, or from side to side, then my stomach had twitches, not much unlike a hiccup, afterwards my hands and arms were violently shaken, at length a struggle or labouring of the windpipe, and sometimes a sort of catching or twitches all over my body; and for about a week before my speaking, I observed my tongue was now and then moved involuntarily, as also were my lips, my mouth and my jaw severally, all which preparations of the bodily organs I found attended with a constant elevation of soul to God; the mind being uncontainably cast into a frame of spiritual joy, holy contempt of all things in the world, and incessant prayers, far more earnest and intent than what I have ever found before…..
‘I do affirm without the least doubt that my agitations and words in the ecstasy are produced by a superior agent, and are independent of me any further that I do not, nor dare not oppose but do remain altogether passive. (end times note: This is contrary to scripture where the spirit of the prophets is subject to the control of the prophets and thus everything could and should be done decently and in order). My mind at those times continues clear and sedate, during which my fear and caution makes me wait always, until the tongue be removed by that superior power; nor doth any impulse alone prevail within me therein, so that it is no longer I, as the prime voluntary mover and agent that speak, and oftentimes I know not the sense until the words are spoken, (end times note: this is not how prophecy works) and so heard by me as by other persons present. Nor did I myself write those English words, which are contained in the warning of July 12th, but my fingers were forcibly moved to do it, my eyes then being close shut, and I under agitations. (end times note: this is automatic writing as practiced in the spiritualist church). Therefore I utterly deny myself to be the farmer, either of the agitations or of the voice. I have moreover, thrice experienced a tone or manner in the voice itself, which I am well assured I am no ways capable of, in my natural state.
(Comments made to his self righteousness which John Lacy believed meant that) ‘I therefore hath the more confidence that God doth not deliver me up to so horrid a delusion…..That an evil spirit could direct me to seek repose in God, and upon applying to the throne of Grace for it, give and continue the same to me, I dare not allow myself to think.’
(After a year of such agitations John Lacy wrote) …it is not voluntary from myself, nor of my own will, but on the contrary when the agent doth so, if I think to suppress the same, he doth continue to start and twitch my limbs, and by more interior uneasiness over my whole body, to solicit my obedience; that I can have no rest until I suffer the same to take place…..(end times note: God does not force or control us like this). Under this foreign influence, I felt my fingers terribly contracted and moved to write those words in page 90th of my first book of warnings: under this influence my body was removed ten or eleven feet, as in page 65th of my second part, without any concurrent mixture of my agency. Under this influence I have been carried on my knees several times around a room, faster than I could have gone on my feet…I am at times under the agency of another distinct being, in which times, the tongue also is at the direction of that foreign agent and no more under mine (control) than the other motion of my body….(the prophetic words did not come from premeditation or study) but the adventious power by the motions it caused in my breath, tongue and lips, formed the words..Sometimes that adventious power overshadowing my mind, prevented a serene brightness to my conception, clearly distinguished from the natural faculty (end times note: eg he could not think straight, however God gives us the spirit of a sound man)…wherefore the laid discourses have come out of me not as the fountain but as the channel…I am not responsible for them. (end times note: this is not at all scriptural).
(John Lacy also claimed he possessed the gift of languages: he claimed not to have learned much Latin at all, yet when tested by Latin scholars when under ‘agitation’ (eg manifesting) was able to translate very hard passages of Latin into English, ‘as readily as if he were then reading it before him’.)
(John Lacy claimed): ’a Mr Dutton knows not one Hebrew Letter from another, nor hardly any Greek one. This man I say I have heard utter with great readiness and freedom, complete discourses in Hebrew for near a quarter of an hour together, and sometimes longer.
‘I myself cannot talk Hebrew, for though I cannot speak, either the Welsh, the Irish or the Dutch languages, yet having lived where they have been spoken, though I cannot speak any of these languages I can perfectly distinguish between every one of them, and know which is that which is spoken, as certainly as if I could speak the languages.
…(Going back to prophecy/words of knowledge, John Lacy said): ‘A woman who being fast asleep, the agitations came upon her, and the words dropped out, like as from one asleep wherein we were told there was a Judas in the room: and at the same time (it being very late) there was another by whose mouth being asleep in agitations, we were ordered for that reason to depart immediately.
(The ministry and passing on of these agitations and gift of prophecy, John Lacy says was by the laying on of hands, and he then goes on to describe several miracuolous physical healings including of himself).
‘There are about eight or ten of the inspired in London already who have visions presented to them by this spirit, some of whom converse with angels in those visions in which they see also the lips of angels move in discourse, who take the persons by the hand, and the subject of all the visions tends to and concerns the approaching glorious dominion of our Lord on earth, and the suppression of the prevalence of evil men and spirits on it.’ (This is unscriptural.) (ends part on John Lacy)
(End times notes In 1711 John Lacy recieved a divine command to leave his wife and live with an actress, Elizabeth Grey who had stripped and preached naked in the Roman Catholic Chapel in Lincoln’s Inn Field. It was said she would concieve the second messiah. This unconvential behaviour was tolerated by the French prophets, but between 1708 and 1712 there were six schisms, all led by women. In at least two of these case, the women claimed special spiritual status – Dinnah Stoddart claimed to be the saviour of womankind, and Dorothy Harling claimed to be the woman clothed by the sun in Revelation 12. Source: Gender in Mystical and Occult thought, Behmenism and its development in England by B J Gibbons.
John Lacy & Doctor Keyth expressed themselves in most Impious Terms by saying that the Old & New Testament were good for nothing as is proved by oath before Milord Chief Justice Holt.
Richard Kingston, in Enthusiastick Impostors, 1707 said of Lacy: ‘That which I think comes nearest to Mr. Lacy’s case, is a more than ordinary vanity and ambition of being thought wiser and better than the rest of the world, which, join’d with an affectation of singularity, and having the glory of starting something that ’s odd and out of the way, and being the originals of his own opinion, which he thinks is an infallible proof that the reach of his own understanding is above the common standard, is turn’d at length to subtlety and artifice, to doubling and insincerity, to deceive and being deceived.’ )
(There were many books written about the new prophets and the writer of this book, Charles Chauncy says): Designed brevity will allow me to take notice of only one thing (of the prophets): and that is, the palpable failure of their predictions….the great thing pretended to by their spirit was to give warning of the near approach of the kingdom of God, the happy times of the church, the millenium state. Their message to be proclaimed to every nation starting from England was that the grand jubilee, the accomplishment of those numerous scriptures, touching the new heavens and the new earth, the kingdom of the Messiah, the marriage of the lamb, the first resurrection, or the new Jerusalem descending from above, was now even at the door; that this great operation was to be wrought by spiritual arms only proceeding from the mouths of these (inspired ones)…(The prophets claimed that all the things they spoke of will be manifest over the earth in three years, and John Lacy said: If within six months to come these things are not confirmed then: ‘I shall before all the world acknowledge my delusion’, which he witnessed on 29th of October 1707).
But the most remarkable failure was in the prediction of the resurrection of Dr Emes, one of the new prophets of London who was taken ill about December 4th 1707 and died December 22nd.
(John Lacy prophesied on December 5th) …’If I command thy life away, yet I will restore it again here, even in this house thou shalt return to thy dwelling again.’
December 6th, J Potter under inspiration of the spirit speaks to the doctor; ‘if thou diest, I will raise thee – I will fulfil all those promises made unto thee.’
December 23rd, being the day after the doctor’s death, Anna Maria King in a public assembly, under inspiration said: ‘Here are some doubtful whether all will come to pass as my servants have spoken, because of one thing; but do you think that death can hinder? For though my servant dies, hath I not said, I will raise the dead by the hand of my servant? Perhaps you think my servants were in an error when they spoke that; but I assure you they were not. More marvellous things than this shall come to pass in a little time, such as never has been yet.’
December 25th, being the day in which the doctor was buried, J Potter under inspiration delivered himself thus -’Remember this day, I will make an extraordinary beginning, I will give now undeniable proof that this is my word. The restoring of the blind, the healing of the sick, raising the dead shall decide it after some months been interred – by the same power that I have raised Jesus, will I raise this body now asleep.’ Here the prophet fell back in his chair and cried out ‘Oh Lord, what would you that I say unto you? By another, Lord.’ Then he fell backward upon the ground and lay silent. Whereupon Anna Maria King was instantly seized by the spirit and said: ‘Rejoice greatly oh my children! By the hands of my servant Lacy I will raise the body of my servant who is now dead….’
(Emes ‘instead of being laid out as is usual for a dead corpse was kept hot in bed till he stunk so as there was scarce any enduring it’.)
December 28th, J Potter was for a long time under violent agitations, and laboured greatly with great strugglings in his throat, and organs of speech, almost as if he were choking, and uttered some inarticulate words or unintelligble sounds. Then the Spirit said ‘Did you understand my children? The words were pronounced, even the day, in which my servant shall rise.’ (end times note: the Spirit does not speak in nonsense words like this). Here the Spirit threw him upon the ground where he lay stretched out as if dead, without motion or breathing.
(More prophecies were given by J Potter and John Lacy re Dr Emes resurrection and on January 1st, 1708 Potter almost choking said Emes would rise in five months time, on the 25th of May. On the 25th of May 1708 twenty thousand people turned up in London to watch Dr Eme’s resurrection, so much so the Queens Guard were there to keep order. Dr Emes stayed where he was, and the movement lost its credibility and large following.)
Before the death of the last apostle, flourished Cerinthus, a disciple of Simon Magus (Simon the Sorceror), a mighty pretender to inspiration and angelic visions. Eusebius observes of it of him: ‘that by revelation he delivered monstrous things, feigning them to have been revealed to him by angels.’ He taught that not only would Christ have a temporal kingdom but that man should spend a thousand years in a nuptial festivity.
(Montanus in the second century had an extraordinary zeal and desire for reformation, but he)… lacked solidity of judgement and coolness of thought, apt to be driven by every impulse that seized him….(and despite his love and seemingly genuine desire to reform the church and bring people back to their first love)…the serpent quickly insinuated himseld under this disguise, instead of the true spirit of God: which spirit seizing him on a sudden was wont to agitate him just as if he were a distracted person: and he continued all the while without the use of his reason; and had they say no command over his members and organs…several women such as Priscilla and Maximilla both married women left their husbands for perpetual virginity as prophetesses of Montanus, espoused only to God - as soon as they were filled with the spirit of prophecy than they immediately left their husbands, believeing themselves called to a ‘higher dignity’ in the church of God. Priscilla was given the title Paraclete, supposing hers to be a higher degree of inspiration that the apostles. Maximilla claimed to be the last prophetess. They had very violent agitations and often fell into ecstasies.
Mahomet (Mohamed) agitated so violently that he often appeared to lie as one dead, having violent shaking fits, and falling down as in a trance.
The Romish church is full of visions and revelations and combats with the devil and such things.
In 1521 in Germany, Muncer claimed the word was to be learnt intrinsically and not out of the scriptures. Then John of Leydon (who was persuaded he would have the empire of the whole earth and was crowned King at Munster) led many astray. His chief minister Knipperdoling walked upon the heads of people in the market place, and breathed upon them ’recieve the Holy Ghost’. (end times note: he’d be popular today) Multitudes of people died when the city was beseiged but many still refused to deny their prophetic delusions about John of Leydon even then.
Kotarus, Drabicus and Poniatovia had visions, ecstasies and dreams…they declared that the Turk ( (end times note: Islam) was to turn Christian and overthrow Germany and then the pope in a very little time, and by 1680 the building of the New Jerusalem was immediately to proceed.
Elizabeth Barton called the Holy Maid of Kent, in the time of Henry VIII, was subject to fits and often fell into trances which were accompanied with convulsions, and strange motions of the body, in which she pretended to inspirations and revelations. Warham archbishop of Canterbury believed her to be a Saint and gave credit to her revelations – she prophesied that if King Henry the Eighth would be divorced from Queen Katherine, and marry another, as he then intended to do, he would not reign a month. In November 1553 she was tried and condemned to suffer death for this threatening inspiration, which was also false.
Trembling, howling, shrieking, yelling, roaring and strange humming all followed the Quakers, along with visions. George Fox the first and great apostle of the Quakers then declared himself to be Christ, the way, the truth and life, yea the eternal judge of the world. James Naylor, another Quaker, declared himself as holy, just and good as God himself. A petition was made by concerned parties to the council of state claiming that ‘men, women and children would be strangely wrought upon in their bodies, and brought to fall, foam at the mouth, roar, and swell in their bellies, and some of them affirm themselves to be equal to God.’
The head of the new Quakers was Thomas Case who upon the bridge at New York asserted he had come to perfection, and could sin no more than Christ because whatever he did or said was by the same Spirit which Christ had.
Doctor Mather says in Magnalia Book 7: ‘it was no rare thing for the old set of Quakers to poselyte (convert) people just by croaking or by breathing on them…the bewitched people would follow their converters in everything without being able to render any reason for it.
The disciples of Thomas Case were troublesome and vexatious even to other Quakers – it is well known that some of those whom this villiam had led captive at his will, were so much under his influence that if upon their coming where he was he fastened his eye upon them, they would presently tremble and stagger and fall, and foam like epileptical persons, and roll about upon the ground until they had rolled themesleves unto his feet, where he did what he pleased with them. I am well acquanted with one very devout gentleman who assured me that as often as this Elymas would please, with his fascinating eye ( (end times note: evil eye/witchcraft), to make him so, but never any such way affected before or after, or upon any other occasion. It is well know that this villian pretending to show a miracle did but look upon a mad bull – that would approach no man except it were to mischief him, and this bull would come tamely, gently, strangely to him, and lick his hands like a spaniel. Nevertheless when he attempted the miracle of a resurrection upon a dead friend, the friend did not rise.
In the year 1681, Jonathan Dunen of Thomas Case’s crew drew away the wife of a man to Marshfield in Plymouth colony to follow him, and one Mary Ross falling into their company was presently possessed with as frantic a demon as ever was one, she burnt her clothes, she said that she was Christ, she gave names to the gang that was with her, as apostles, calling one Peter and one Thomas, she declared that she would be dead for three days and thne rise again, and accordingly she seemed then to die. Dunen then gave out that they would see glorious things when she rose again, but what she then did was thus: that upon her order Dunen sacrificed a dog. The men and two women danced naked together, for which when the constable carried them to the magistrates Ross uttered stupendous blasphemies, but Dunen lay for dead an hour upon the floor, saying when he came to himself that Ross bid him and he could not resist.
Doctor Mather (continues) in his book: Mmen of the most unspotted piety have spent whole prenticeship of years in the faithful, watchful, painful service of the churches, and have served them day and night with prayers, with tears, with fasting, with their much studied sermons and writings and have never such a reputation with the countries in churches afar off; yet if any wolf in sheeps clothing do come with a simple few words among them, the simple souls of many will not only follow the wolf, but, on his account bark at the shepherds.
‘Tis an unwarrantable and a very dangerous thing for men to wish that they might see angels and converse with them. Some have done so, and God hath been provoked with them for their curiousity and presumption, and have permitted devils to come unto them whereby they have been decieved and undone.
Reverend Dr Edmund Calarny speaking on the enthusiastic spirit concludes: ‘it is an easy thing to observe that such as have been affected by a spirit of enthusiasm, from one age to another, have in several things agreed. All are still inveighing against such as have gone before them, and for pouring contempt on the standing ministers in the church – go to argue with them and they will stop your mouth with a plain revelation from heaven, and they expect their affirmation should be credited without proof. They all grossly misinterpret the scriptures, and apply the whole of them to those notions of which they are so hugely fond. All are apt to lay more stress on the things that fasten them than on much greater matters. We may observe in all of them a want of due search and inquiry into the grounds on which they admit their suggestions to be divine and from God, and a readiness to find evasions when the event has consuted their predictions, or when anything is urged that tends to convince, much spiritual pride covered with a pretence of more than ordinary humility; great ignorance and thick darkness in the midst of their highest flights and a greater dependence on their own whimsies than on the sacred oracles themselves. And if we cannot from such instances as these produced learn not to make light of a pretence to immediate inspiration, which though it begins low often issues so tragically, if we don’t learn to be afraid of anything that borders upon enthusiasm either in ourselves or others, we show that we are not to be instructed by the experience of other men, but are of the number of those that can only be taught by feeling the danger of making divisions in religion and of taking the spirit of error and delusion for the spirit of truth and sobreness.’
Footnote 1
“Wesley recorded on January 28, 1739 that several of his friends went with him to a house where they met a woman who was connected with a movement of French Prophets. She went into convulsive motions and spoke a prophetic message. Wesley wrote that “Two or three of our company were much affected and believed she spoke by the Spirit of God. But this was in no wise clear to me. The motion might be either hysterical or artificial. And the same words any person of a good understanding and well versed in the Scriptures might have spoken. But I let the matter alone, knowing this, that ‘if it be not of God, it will come to nought.’”
However, Mr. Wesley did not have to wait long to observe the fruit of this movement. On June 22, 173 he called on one who “did run well,” until he was hindered by “some of those called French Prophets.” Wesley concluded that these prophets were not sent by God and “earnestly exhorted all that followed after holiness to avoid as fire all who do not speak according ‘to the law and the testimony.’” That same day Mr. Wesley came to the Methodist society with the text from 1 John 4:1, “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they be of God.” He told them not to judge the Spirit on the basis on appearances, common report, or by their own inward feelings. “No, nor by any dreams, visions, or revelations supposed to be made to their souls, anymore than by their tears or any involuntary effects wrought upon their bodies.” Wesley declared the only certain test was “the law and the testimony,” a reference to Isaiah 8:20, which is a description of God’s Word.
On May 9, 1740 Mr. Wesley wrote, “I was a little surprised at some who were buffeted of Satan in an unusual manner, by such a spirit of laughter as they could in no wise resist, though it was pain and grief unto them.” In fact, John Wesley remembered an earlier incident when he and Charles could not stop laughing. But he did not attribute this phenomenon to the Holy Spirit.
In his Journal for May 21, 1740 Wesley recorded
In the evening such a spirit of laughter was among us that many were much offended…. One so violently and variously torn of the evil one did I never see before. Sometimes she laughed till almost strangled; then broke out into cursing and blaspheming; then stamped and struggled with incredible strength, so that four or five could scarce hold her…. At last she faintly called on Christ to help her. And the violence of her pangs ceased.
Most within the Methodist society believed “those under this strange temptation could not help it.” Two women, however, felt it could be controlled until they themselves were seized with this same spirit and laughed for two days. Again, Wesley did not promote this phenomenon as revival, but recorded that prayer was made for them and that they were “delivered in a moment.”
Footnote 2
From http://www.ccgm.org.au/Articles/ARTICLE-0085.htm
Rodney Howard-Browne’s 18-year-old daughter, Kelly, died on Christmas Day 2002.
Kelly had been born with Cystic Fibrosis and as Howard-Browne said, “They had fought this battle everyday.” When Kelly fell ill this time the prognosis was not good but as he related the story, Howard-Browne told how the “power (of God) fell on me” and God said, “Kelly won’t die…” He was further emboldened by a phone call from Reinhard Bonnke, a Pentecostal evangelist who stated that he had received his own revelation about Kelly’s sickness and that it was “not unto death”.
As the days progressed though, Kelly became worse and as he comforted his daughter, Kelly asked Rodney what was going to happen. He replied, “Well, if there is no miracle, you’re going to go and be with Jesus.”
At this point, the story became extremely bizarre. Howard-Browne related how he entered into a “deal” with Kelly. Simply put, he told her he was going to send her to Jesus to get a new set of lungs and when she had done that he would then pray her back into her body. However, he did warn Kelly, “Kelly, I’m afraid that when you get there and see how beautiful heaven is, you won’t want to come back.” He made Kelly promise that she would come back and incredibly explained to everyone listening that he had given her as a gift to Jesus, the best gift he could give Him on His birthday!
Incidentally, given the fact that he believed Kelly would return, I could make no sense of his next comment, which was a vow that he made to Satan that Kelly’s death would cost him (Satan) “100 million souls”.
Now, just when you would think this could not possibly get any worse…. It did, as it invariably does at these types of meetings. Tragically, Kelly died and on the Saturday immediately after Christmas they held her celebration service. Because of Christmas, she could not be buried until the following Tuesday.
This explains why Kelly’s coffin wound up in Howard-Browne’s office on the Monday before the burial service. The purpose was to hold a prayer vigil between 8.00 am – 5.00 pm of that day in order to see Kelly resurrected. (Howard-Browne had determined that 5.00pm of that day was the cut off point. If Kelly had not been resurrected then she would be buried the next day.)
Within an hour of the prayer vigil God spoke to Howard-Browne saying, “She’s run her race.” Rodney replied, “But Lord, you told me she was going to live.”
God’s response?
“Well, she’s living now!” Rodney’s rejoinder was, “Why didn’t you tell me?”
And God’s answer?
“Because you would have told Kelly and she would have been devastated. At least this way she died in faith!”
This is tragic for the Browne family but there are problems with this mixed up theology for a number of reasons. God is not a man who should lie, least of all to decieve someone they were not truly dying. Secondly he would not make a grieving father go with such a prayer ritual to effectively say ‘only joking’- to claim this is God, is sick and twisted. RHB has claimed that Kelly did not come back as she liked heaven too much – more excuses as to his inability of his anointing or faith to either heal the sick or raise the dead – or to prophesy correctly. Also in one breathe he says it is God, in another breath Satan.
Footnote 3
There were a large amount of prophecies among the French Prophets concerning the end of the world being near, the destruction of Babylon, the fall of the Roman Catholic Church, and the deliverance of the persecuted protestant church. Great changes were prophesied to come upon their nation including even the conversion of the King. One of the prophetesses, Jacquette Ranc, saw an angel transport the British king, William III, formerly William of Orange, to France holding on to his hair. Once there, she predicted, he would deliver the French Protestants as he had delivered the English Dissenters. Against a background of these and other false prophecies, rebellion ensued. ‘The Spirit’ commanded a wool-comber, Abraham Mazel, to murder a Roman Catholic abbot in order to free some Protestants whom the latter had imprisoned. Abraham Mazel, raided and massacred the Catholic town of Pont de Montvert. The doomed war that followed lasted two years.
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Thanks for typing this out
This was quite an eye opener.
Many of today’s church services are just too weird for me. This article cuts through a lot of the confusion. I saved it.
Clearly most of these kinds of manifestations are not of God, and even the one or two that are, any overdone manifestation is just as bad as the rest.
In 1706 the leaders of the French prophets, notably Durand Fage, Jean Cavailier, and Elie (Elias or Elijah) Marion, fled to England. These Cevennois, commonly called Camisars (Camisards) gained many followers by their ecstatic convulsions and prophesying. By the authority of the bishop of London the three were summoned to appear before them; two refused, but the third went and boldly justified their inspirations. The church declared them impostors and counterfeits, and in response the prophets continued their assemblies in Soho, called the ministers of the established church odious names and slandered their characters, and pronounced heavy judgment against the city of London and the whole British nation. They published predictions under the title of “Prophetical warnings of Elias Marion, &c.”
They were then prosecuted as disturbers of the public peace and also as false prophets.
In November 1707, Nicholas Fatio and Marion were arrested and convicted of blasphemy and “spreading terror among the Queen’s people”, and sentenced to the pillory.
In December 1707, following a long and laborious court proceedings accompanied by an incredible war of pamphlets, Elijah Marion (aka Elias or Elie Marion) and two “brothers” were convicted.
By sentence of the court of Queen’s bench, Marion, with Nicholas Facio, and John Daudé, were on the 1st and 2nd of December, exposed on a scaffold at Charing-cross, and at the Royal Exchange, with a paper attached to wore their forehead denoting their offences.
‘Elias Marion, Convicted for falsy and prophanely pretending himself to be a true Prophet, and printing and uttering many things, as dictated and revealed to him by the Spirit of God, to terrifie the Queen’s People.’ and
‘John d’Audé, and Nicolas Facio, Convicted for abetting and favouring Elias Marion, in his Wicked and Counterfeit Prophecies, and causing them to be printed and publish’d, to terrifie the Queen’s People.
Whereas it has been falsly reported, That the pretended French Prophets, were supported by some Refugee-Ministers; this is to inform the Publick, that the said pretended Prophets, and their Abettors, have been prosecuted at the Suit and Charge of all the French Churches in this City and Suburbs.’
Cevenol was accused of having published a collection of prophetic warnings in which he predicted the imminent destruction of London likened to Babylon.
The heretical Shakers claimed the same spirit as the French Prophets -
James Wardley (or Wardlaw), a former Quaker, formed with his wife, ‘Mother Jane’, an English sect known as the Wardley Society aka The Shaking Quakers. James Wardley claimed he had “possession by the spirit” of the French prophets. They were viewed as radical for their violent shaking, and other ecstasies. Shouting, dancing, and prophesying, and communion with the spirits of the dead. From these strange exercises the people received the name of Shakers or Shaking Quakers.
‘Sometimes, after assembling together, and sitting a while in silent meditation, they were taken with a mighty trembling, under which they would express the indignation of God against all sin. At other times, they were affected, under the power of God, with a mighty shaking; and were occasionally exercised in singing, shouting, or walking the floor, under the influence of spiritual signs, swiftly passing and re-passing each other, like clouds agitated by a mighty wind.’
‘The Wardleys had belonged to the Quakers; but receiving the spirit of the French prophets, and a further degree of light and power they continued for several years disconnected from every denomination. During this time, their vision and revelation was, That the second appearing of Christ was at hand, and that the Church was rising in her full and transcendent glory, which would effect the final downfall of antichrist.’
The Wardleys taught the second person of the Trinity existed in both male and female form. They reasoned that since Christ’s first advent was as a man, the second appearing would be as a woman.
Ann Lee became a member of the group in 1747, who later became known as ‘Mother’ Ann of The Shakers and claimed she embodied all the perfections of God in female form. She was, she said, the female manifestation of Christ and the second Christian Church — she was the Bride ready for the Bridegroom, and in her the promises of the Second Coming were fulfilled. She was chosen by the society as “Mother in spiritual things” and called herself “Ann, the Word” and also “Mother Ann.”
Ann began to preach openly against marriage and sexual intercourse of any kind. All the world’s wrongs: war, disease, slavery, famine, poverty, the inequality of the sexes – all were the result of “concupiscence.” She spoke of visions and messages from God, claiming that she had received a vision from God the message that celibacy and confession of sin are the only true road to salvation, the only way in which the Kingdom of God could be established on the earth.
The Shakers did not believe in procreation so therefore had to adopt a child if they wanted one. The Shakers lived in “families” sharing a large house with separate entrances for each family within the “family”; thus the families were exclusively male or female.
A period of spiritual manifestations called the ‘Era of Manifestations’ or “Mother Ann’s Work” began in 1837. Shakers in New Lebanon, New York experienced a 10-year period of revelations. Children told of visits to cities in the spirit realm and brought messages to the community which they received from Mother Ann. In 1838 the gift of tongues was manifested and sacred places were set aside in each community, with names like Holy Mount; but in 1847 the spirits, after warning, left the Believers.
Ann Less was frequently imprisoned for breaking the Sabbath by dancing and shouting, and for blasphemy. She had many “miraculous” escapes from death. Once, according to her story, being examined by four clergymen of the Established Church, she spoke to them for four hours in seventy-two tongues. She also claimed to heal the sick by merely touching them.
Miriam, what do you think of Mitt Jeffords? I never heard of him before tonight, but just read an interesting vision of his called “Bone of my Bones.” I would very much appreciate your comments. The site I was reading – etpv.org – contains a mixed bag IMHO of true and untrue.
Here’s the link:
http://etpv.org/2008/bomybo.html
I never heard of Mitt Jeffords either, til you pointed him out. I have just done a quick scan through some of his prophecies. Although some things he says seem biblical on the surface, and he includes a lot of scriptural references, I find it to be false scripturally overall and Latter Rain and manchild inspired.
Among other things, in his ‘Vision Of The Twin Theaters’ Jiffords claims Jesus says ‘abra cadabra’ – an occultic bastardisation of ‘abba’ (the word for father) and other words used since ancient times on magical amulets.
Shalom Endtimes, and all at this website.
I am glad you brought up this experience to highlight being on the alert for unscriptural and mysticism threads sewn into ‘prophets and prophetess’s words.
The last few days I was battling with a similar situation, and through this topic I believe Ihave received the answer. I used to receive for almost 3 yrs in mail box. Daily Devotional words from a ‘reputable’ ministry. One of which I trusted. Well all seemed well. Even biblically. Until Monday came and I received a nice word from this couple’s ministry into my box. About this 2008 is a year of rewards etc. and so forth and so forth. amen, amen, amen. But on sifting on down the message. I saw the title CIRCLE OF LIFE.
Where did I hear that term? That old disney cartoon..the Lion King. Which is laced with New Age philosophy and occultic inuendos. I have heard it brought up in occultic soaked sc fi programs too. I immediately stopped reading any further.Questioning what I was looking at. Surely, if you are filled with God’s word. Spending time in His word daily. Your verbage will be seasoned with biblical verbage. Not 24/7 saying thees and thous and thys. But I am sure those who know how the Lord operates in their lives on a personal basis. Witness with this. And know what I am talking about here. You fill up with His word. Then you produce out of your mouth, His word ..Anyways, I just didnt want to read any further. Maybe I shouldve. I just couldnt proceed. The Circle of Life is verbage familiar too and common to New Agers and the like. Not with believers of Jesus Christ. etc. I after getting over the surprise. Immediately unsubscribed from their list. I dunno. Its the last days. and many start off alright in the Lord, but who knows what trails them off ..or if they were at all from Him ..the bible does say many will come out from among us..but they dont stay ..they folow paths or strange fires that arent His. Many questions ..but God only knows. But I leave herewith that decision of that with Him. All I know is..just one little leaven can ruin the entire dough. Just one little fox in the hen house can cause alot of carnage. Its the end times.And toleration of these little leavens and foxes. May seem small. But I dont believe they should be played with. I hope I am not judging. Yet, I am still quite disappointed. Gradually Getting over it. anyone can relate to this?
Hi.
Dear Miriam,
I tried to read all the above article but am tired, but I understand the content. I am very interested in this article because in my church and cell group in particular there is a growing interest and desire for intamacy with the Lord. The word seems to call people to a deeper knowledge and understanding of Our heavenly Father. People including myself want to enter into a deeper worship with God and it seems biblical to want and do this. I cannot remember wher it is written in the Old testament but I know that that there is a passage that says the musicians and worshippers had to put down their instruments as the Glory of God so filled the place that they could not continue to worship. Is it not a good thing that today people have a growing hunger for the Lord to want to experience God in this deep way. I know I want to. I know that we must be careful in all things and test everything but how can you test such an experience as documented in the bible I have just described. My personal belief is that should God’s presence come in such a way that one would feel in awe in a reverant and holy way and become more human in spirit and fruit and not act like an animal or a drunk or silly and one would also feel that their facultys were ultra sharp and not in some haze like trance. But what about wanting to experience God in such a way. Is this wrong. I believe personally that God wants us to be able to worship him in a deep way and ultimately I believe that he would respond through his spirit and fill us so much that you would feel your heart was going to burst. Do we not want to feel somewhat like Moses did when he was with God and he had to cover his face it shone so much. Only the presence of God could have done this. Is it wrong to want even a glimpse of this. My last point is this. In relation to point three above I dont think that being tried , probably by a nominal christian court is any proof that prophets were false. The Queens people are not Christians and neither is the Queen unless they are born again. This last point is not a challenge to your comment but rather an observation.
Your’s in peace, Greg.
Greg: there is absolutely nothing wrong in wanting to get closer to God, to know Him better, and to walk with Him. Relationship with God is key. However, it is potentially dangerous ground to seek a certain experience or feeling that you feel should accompany this intimacy or relationship.
There is a lot of Christian mysticism that has infected the church today so it thinks feeling a tangible ‘peace’ for example is God’s presense and they will be guided by that rather than God Himself. The peace can be a genuine sign of God’s presense but not always, for are not Mormons guided by what they think is a ‘burning in the bosum’? So many mistake manifestation with actually knowing God. One needs to know God better than any feelings or manifestations, that is what I declare, or else one can be decieved by men or angels and wander off far.
At the end of the day, it is not about what Moses felt. He was not seeking feelings, he was being obedient to God. It is a sensationalist feeling if we seek that feeling of his experience rather than the fruit, for it is about what he saw and understood and what he took away with him to the people. If God gives you feelings/manifestations then fine, or more like if these arise in the flesh fine, but so what, these must not be the focus and do not seek these for themself.
What this article is talking about is manifestations and prophecy and being most careful in testing everything. What it is saying, is just because you may ‘feel’ more in love with God etc, does not mean that your actual experiences with any given Spirit are TRUE, or that the spirit is of God. Just because it feels like a genuine Christian spirit does not make it so. If it were obvious what was what, I John would not have been written about testing the spirits and false anointnings. This article is about this, not intimacy itself.
Agreed, that is not why I said they were false. They were false because they prophesied the end of the world etc to happen in the early 1700s, they were false for they contadicted the Bible in practice and in words, they were false in their failed predictions re the raising of Dr Emes etc etc
Though I know the people at the Vineyard during the Toronto Blessing always claimed it was not about the manifestations, but about God and the fruit, their practice and true belief was the opposite. If the expected ‘manifestations’ did not happen to someone, these people were called ‘hard to receive’ or labbelled problematic, sinful or faithless. Those that manifested were viewed as spiritually superiour – the Vineyard even fast-tracking leadership process for these people – and most that regularly manifested ‘good’ got proud.
It is fascinating too, that while these things were going on, the genuine gifts of the spirit were downplaid for these bizarre manifestations.
Some manifestations are according to IHOP and the prophets, the fruit of angels on assignment
Miriam,
Thank you for your reply which I found insightful to my spirit. You have , for me anyway articulated clearly my thoughts not just on worship but on relationship itself in relation to God. It is and has always been my belief that you cannot feel feelings in a vacuam. That is something has to motivate them. Jesus faced the cross for the “joy” set before him. The unfathomable, at this point of time at least , of the personal joy the Lord felt after redeeming those the Father will give him is based on facts and action and knowledge first and then comes the feelings. I understand what you say about Moses. Moses went up the mountain in obedience and probably had no idea of what was going to happen. I remember times myself that I was simply reading Gods word and the very reading about God’s heart and how it is affected by man brought tears to my eyes and I hope that this was done through the Holy Spirit and not just some sentimentality on my part. The point is that when this happened to me I wanted to worship God for what I believed I had just learned. But also, I do think that you could be having a terrible or just busy day and then attend a for example cell group meeting and enter in to deep worship and calling on God just because you believe in him and have retained and remained in his word. A bit of an analogy would be that you could be arguing with your wife or husband or had a misunderstandment with them but just turn around and say ” I love you”. And this act could bring in a flood of loving feelings. Now in this I understand that you are saying I love you as a fact and not to get the feeling so I think to myself dont christians just want to do the same with God sometimes no matter where they are at and even sometimes ” despite ” where they are at. Having said all that I understand completely, I believe, the caution you urge. Finally, I understand what you say about the false prophets that were tried. I didnt take the time to read about their false prophesies.
Greg.
Thank you for your research and for typing all of this out. It helps give another point of context with which to view the happenings of Lakeland.
Let us all pray for the precious body of Christ. Pray that we only recieve that which was purchased and provided for us in the blood covenant and that is of the same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead. Pray that this generation become ‘people of the book’ and that the true signs and wonders follow that. not the people following the signs and wonders.
Thank you Miriam. Shalom
I appreciate the words re Charles Chauncy & his observations re the revivals of our past, esp. of those experiences which are the same as we observe in these days…satan seems to use the same tricks over & over again. However, I think it should be noted that he also was a preacher of universalism/unitarianism.
See http://www.positiveliberty.com/2007/10/good-history-v-bad-history.html
DISCERNMENT OF SPIRITS and KATHRYN KUHLMAN: We can all pray for this gift listed in 1 Cor 12.10 and this does not always result in us finding deception it can be quite the opposite. Recently a friend brought round a Kathryn Kuhlman video who Ive always been suspicious of (I already knew she had fallen into the false doctrin of praying to the holy Spirit as if he were separate to the Father or Jesus which Benny Hinn now promotes and has opened him to another spirit altogether). I therefore tactfully suggested to my friend that we should pray for discernment before watching this video. When K. Kuhlman came on stage she did have a very witchy vibe about her and I thought – here we go again another ministry which I will now believe is moving in another spirit. However when she was actually praying for healings I was enabled by the Holy Spirit to discern that she was opperating in a genuine healing gift from God. There was another spirit trying to come through her too but I saw that this was being restrained by God. I believe God also showed me that she had strayed in her heart somewhat since her younger early Christian days and been influenced by a mystical spirit/attitude and that this had been due in large measure to her feeling incredibly bored and somewhat isolated in her life, (maybe mysticism appealed to her at some level and this filled that void). The point here though is that the gift of discernemnt has actually stopped me criticising the healing gidt of K. Kuhlman even though there are other aspects that were wrong in her ministry.Things are often a mixture like this and I have noticed many times that others often dont listen to warnings about deception because they crticise a ministry completely. When people notice this mistake they then cease to listen that persons warnings completely and then continue on in the areas of deception without listening. If more peole werwe tp pray for the gift of discernment the Holy Spirit can then fine tune our warnings making them more precise and accurate and others are then more likely to listen to such warnings. We should welcome such feedback ourselves to help keep us in line. I run the propheciesfortoday.uk.com website and whilst I get a fair No of visitors I am surprised how few Em me to disagree. I actively encourage this as it sharpens one and gets you to double check words with discernemnet again.
S Dobbs
Funny enough Lawrence posted this comment at the same time as you did on Kuhlman. They crossed and he did not know you were to write on Kuhlman as your or his comment was not yet moderated!
From http://www.letusreason.org/Wf25.htm
Kurt Koch was a renowned evangelical researcher. In one portion of his book Occult ABC he describes his research into Kathryn Kuhlman’s healing ministry. He carefully followed up on a list of 28 cases of alleged healings in the Minneapolis, Minnesota, area. These cases were submitted to him by the Kuhlman’s organization as the best examples of healings which had occurred under her ministrations. He summarizes his findings as: “Ten had not been healed, seven had experienced an improvement in their condition, eleven had diseases in which the mind can play an important part. In the whole of this extensive report, there is not one clear case of healing from an organic disease” (Kurt Koch, Occult ABC, 1981).
Kathryn Kuhlman had brought one of her healing services to St. Louis. A fleet of chartered buses brought people to the meeting from a near 200-mile radius of the city. One driver from the bus noted: “’She doesn’t always succeed,’ said a driver from Chester. ‘My bus was pretty quiet on the way home last year [after her service]. But for some of those people a little inspiration does wonders, if only for a little while. I had a guy last year who was dying of cancer. He got up on the stage and said he was healed. He died a week later.’“ (St. Louis Post Dispatch, 5/4/75, “Praying, Hoping, Waiting…” pg. G11).
Dr. Nolan did work on 82 cases of Kathryn Kuhlman’s healings using names that she herself supplied. His conclusion at the end of the entire investigation was that not one of the so called healings was legitimate not a one! This does not impugn God, but those representing him.