Gemstones fraud – Glenn Smith caught redhanded!
Thanks to Jerry, a poster on this site, for making me aware of this story coming out of a Vineyard Church in Arizona. Though there are many demonic manifestations in modern day charismania, there are also many in the flesh, and golddust and gemstones seems one of the most obvious and easy ways to perpetuate modern day fraud.
Much of the church is so gullible now, they really will accept anything – apart from the truth that is. They do themselves and other members of the church great disservice, and many would say they deserve what is coming to them for, ‘they love not the truth, willingly exchanging it for a lie’, and are willingly led away by con men, false teachers and the super apostles with their counterfeit signs and wonders. I have watched some of the leading ‘teachers’ and voices in the prophetic movement speak on ‘Christian’ television talking about these jewels etc, and just know these individuals are barefaced lying! These teachers are as fake as the gold dust which has been tested and been found to be cheap plastic glitter. But many undiscerning Christians refuse to believe this, as they cannot quite get into their heads that 1) they can be decieved and 2) anybody calling themself a Christian minister or a prophet would be so nasty as to intentionally lie to them and 3) that just because nobody else is shouting ‘wolf’, the minister therefore must be a genuine well-meaning sincere shepherd with the sheep’s best interests at heart.
Apparently Silvania Machado, one of the early ‘pioneers’ for the gold dust phenomenen in protestant circles, was caught on film faking it too. Let Us Reason Ministries claim: ’If you can get a chance to watch the Ruth Heflin video with Silvania Machado, what you will see is Machado planted all this stationary glitter in her hair prior to the stage performance. On cue from Heflin she bends her head and it all comes falling out from being clumped under her hair. Clearly this is so phony its hard to believe anyone would fall for this! But they do because they want to.’ Furthermore gold dust is seen on Machado’s face even before she starts ministering, indicating the gold dust’s presense there prior to when it is claimed to fall ‘in the glory cloud’, and added to this her behaviour stearing clear of coming into close contact with people prior to ministering, must also be seen as highly suspicious. (If people got too close they’d see the stuff planted there, or as Glenn Smith says ’seeded’. Liar!)
While I commend Pastor Jack Morraine’s integrity in being open and honest about this, and dealing with it among his own congregation, I cannot commend his lack of discernment regarding other aspects of this phenomenen, or indeed the other bizarre happenings that have been made popular and in the mainstream through the Vineyard. I wonder, too, if Glenn Smith still left Gilbert with his wage check whether in the form of a honarium or not, and if he still appeared on TBN on Friday?
‘From Jack Morraine, Sen. Pastor, Gilbert Vineyard
January 9, 2008 8:13:05 PM MST
Dear Friends: I want to share some things with you about the “gemstone” phenomena that occurred in our services last Sunday. For those of you who weren’t here, this past weekend, Crossfire Ministries (headed by Don Pirozok) sponsored some meetings with Glen Smith from the state of Washington. For the past year and half Glen has been experiencing gemstones appearing in his home and in meetings where he has shared the testimony of how he came to Christ and how God spared his life from a suicide attempt.
Glen attended our Sunday morning services and spoke in the Crossfire meeting that night. In both our Sunday morning services and in the Crossfire meetings a number of gemstones appeared.
I received a call from Don Pirozok today (Wednesday) informing me that a couple of people observed Glen “planting” or “dropping” some gemstones in some of the meetings that took place over the weekend. (He was not seen doing this in our Sunday morning services to my knowledge). Don and some of his leaders confronted Glen about this and he acknowledged that he had in his words, “seeded” some of the gemstones in the meetings. As a result, Glen will not be involved in the Crossfire meetings scheduled for this weekend and is being referred to his pastor in Washington for counsel and discipline.
I am very sorry to report this to you. It is a tragedy anytime something like this happens. It’s understandable why some people would write the whole thing off as a fraud. And yet there are a number of things that happened related to the gemstones which still defy a natural explanation – like the “flecks” or small stones that “grew” into larger gemstones in people’s hands. This happened to two or three different individuals in our church and there were several people who also witnessed it. In addition some people in our church who I’ve known for years (including members of the pastoral staff) found gemstones in places that had been empty only moments before where no one was around to “drop” or “plant” them and I received more than one report from members of our church that stones they collected multiplied (i.e., there were more in their pocket or container when they counted them again). One staff member told me they counted very carefully and when they showed a friend what they had found they discovered there were two more stones in the group than the ones originally collected.
So, the bottom line for me is that I don’t have a satisfactory natural explanation for everything that happened with the gemstones on Sunday, but I do know that some of it was fraudulent and I believe integrity demands that we communicate this.
The bottom line is that extra-biblical phenomena should never be our focus. As we pursue Christ, proclaim His message, and participate in His ministry, I hope we can remain open to whatever God desires to do (even if we don’t understand it) and do so with honesty and integrity. That’s what we’ve tried to do here and the reason for this email.
In His Love,
Jack Moraine’
This is how the meetings were advertised, I always have consistently had a problem for Vineyard, or indeed any charge, charging at the door for some meetings outside the regular Sunday ones and home groups.
January 4th – 7th 2008
‘COME UP HERE AND I WILL SHOW YOU MY MYSTERIES.’
Registration Fee: $30 Single $50 Couple or $10 Nightly
Limited seating** meetings begin 7 PM
Please register by: Email Cpirozok@aol.com or Phone: 509-280-3615
There will be registration at the door. Free will offerings will be taken nightly
|
CROSS FIRE MINISTRY TRAINING CENTER PHOENIX AZ.
PHOENIX ARIZONA |
CPIROZOK@AOL.COM TEL: 509-280-3615 |
There are also nightly home meetings Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday & Friday
The Vineyard Community Church will co-sponsor meetings: Saturday 12th, Sunday 13th & Monday 14th
WATCH FOR DON & GLENN ON TBN Friday JAN 11th
Glenn Smith is an experienced able minister of the Lord Christ. He has a heart for the kingdom of God and especially the disenfranchised needing affirmation, encouragement and covering and thus founded SHEM Ministries International, Seattle, WA. which offers apostolic leadership to a growing number of people and ministries in North America and worldwide. Glenn carries himself with a servant’s humility which is refreshing to see in a man with an earned doctorate in theology. His concern is with what God is doing today and his desire is to be there as an available vessel. Glenn has an amazing conversion testimony, one of being snatched from death by miracle of God.
Dr. Smith and his wife, Terrie have traveled the globe in ministry flowing in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. They have witnessed many signs, wonders and miracles. Recently Gems have been abundantly flowing in their ministry
Don Pirozok….Miracles, signs and wonders will be demonstrated in Don’s ministry. A fresh realm of glory is released, impartations and activation are imparted. Flowing out of this came a new fresh fire of revelation and revival power. A great hunger for the development of Apostolic teamwork has emerged. After receiving prayer from the Smith’s, Don has also started experiencing gems in his ministry.
Location:
Vineyard Community Church
601 S. Cooper Rd. Gilbert, AZ 85233
Located on Cooper Rd. about 1/4 mile north of Warner
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See also
http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2007/08/23/lying-signs-and-wonders-gold-dust-and-jewels/
I remember when I was younger (I was not a born again Christian although at that time I believed I was) there was a worldwide ‘miracle’ in the Hindu circle of little statues drinking milk. I was with a group of friends one day and (the guy whose house we were at) mentioned this phenomenon and that it was happening around the world as we speak.
We got talking about what the statue looks like because his mother used to travel a lot (especially to India) on business and the house was full of Indian art, statues and other strange things. (Back then we didn’t have the internet so going online and looking for info was not possible). Another friend mentioned that she heard on the news that it was the god that was half elephant, half human. Our eyes opened wide!! And we all turned our heads to one of the shelves in the living room and there it was, a +/-15cm high sandalwood carved statue of an elephant/human god.
We all giggled and thought, ‘nah…it’s a load of rubbish’ when one friend suggest we try and give it some milk in a spoon. So we all jumped up and ran to the kitchen and my friend poured some milk into a soon. We took it to the statue and placed the teaspoon in front of its mouth (trunk)…it didn’t take longer than 2 second and it was as though the milk was slurped up. We stood there in shock, my friend ran back to the kitchen and got the rest of the milk. Spoon after spoon after spoon the milk disappeared – it drank more than half a liter. We picked the statue up – we looked underneath it, we looked behind it, we examined every millimeter of that statue, the statue was not even damp, we even looked under the table were we placed the statue to feed it milk – there was not a drop of milk to be seen, anywhere.
I have seen some really strange things in my life (the milk drinking elephant being one of them) and I can only say with confidence that what is going on in the Churches of today is definitely not of God. I don’t believe for one second that the Holy Spirit would go around doing tricks to confirm that Jesus is who he says He is.
Got a question, what constitutes blasphemy against the Holy Spirit?
Has anyone bothered to ask these people what they do with these ‘gemstones’ afterwards? Like, what’s the purpose of god handing out gem stones, giving people gold teeth and sprinkling them with dust?
If I was praising in church and turned around to see a gem stone on my seat, I’d probably be like ‘what in the world is this?’, cast it aside and continue in worship. If I went home afterwards and discovered a gold tooth or gold filling in my mouth that had not been there before, I’d say a quick prayer, make a dental appointment, and resume some fervent prayer to ask GOD to take it away!
People, what’s this material stuff got to do with our LORD?
QUOTE “So, the bottom line for me is that I don’t have a satisfactory natural explanation for everything that happened with the gemstones on Sunday, but I do know that some of it was fraudulent and I believe integrity demands that we communicate this” UNQUOTE.
It is so sad and sickening, I can’t decide whether to cry or get angry!
Doesn’t anyone in the church have discernment?
No wonder the world looks at us like we were clowns.
Here’s a rule of thumb I use. God is a jealous
God! So if you think acknowledging any phenomenon might tend to make God jealous, throw it and the people advertising it out the door!
Math 12,39
“An evil and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign.”
John 20,29
“…blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
to my understanding, we live by faith and not by sight. I find not the remotest hint, that gold dust or gemstones are those events of which is said ” ..and they know that he is the Lord”
Only the woman in Revelation 12 will have the gold and precious stones and it is plain clear, who she is.
Do those prophets and ministers not know the bible? Do they not know the Lord?
Marc 16,15
“… and these signs will accompany those who believe…”
Any gemstones mentionned ? Or golddust ?
Are Glenn Smith and the like ignorant, or are they wicked and adulterous ?
To the question “does anyone in the church have discernment?” I will tell you that many of us had talked with Glenn Smith months ago and he became so angry with us that he began throwing temper tantrums, we knew that he was not even walking with Jesus let alone bieng someone who was solely interested in God recieving glory from his ‘gifting’. We try to tell the Church the truth but when we do we are told that the church doesnt find what we are saying to be edifying, or encouraging, and they think we are judgmental. To tell you the truth the chuch does have discernment but you reject those who God gave you to both use it and impart it to the rest of the church, you don’t want real Prophets you want speakers of warm and gentle words who tell you how wealthy God wants to make you.
As for false signs and wonders, well,…lemme just say you can’t have the false without the genuine and there is genuine. But until the church stops giving celebrity status to anyone having or supposedly having a gifting then the giftings will be made perverse in the church. Jesus may have truly said that an adulterous generation seeks for a sign BUT He also performed more signs than any one in history,…and then asked us to do the same. I dont know which I detest more the false prophets with false signs or the ones who will even blaspheme the Holy Spirit while denying a true work of God,…both dishonor the Kingdom, both destroy faith, hope, and true love.
Daniel Paul: who is ‘us’? Can you elaborate on why you rebuked him?
As a skeptic and one coming out of the Catholic faith I always belived that there was a God, Jesus, and Holy Spirit. One day, clear as day when I was in Catholic school as a nine year old something happened to me and I heard a still small voice in my heart say this, ” if Jesus, GOd and the Holy Spirit exist then they sure don’t live here”.
That sent me on a quest for the true Jesus. I found him. And now he reins in my heart. If you seek truth you will find it and it will set you free and change you and encourage you to become like Jesus. If you seek the false and fake you will find it, and it wont set you free and wont make you any more like Jesus.
Folks I have witnessed and experienced the supernatural and it has encouraged me. But I always ask God for Discrment and wisdom. To show me the truth and to let me see the fruit of the Holy Spirits ministry. Holyness and Righteouseness. I have personnaly witnessed GOld dust on my wifes face in France under the ministry and in the middle of the night, signs and wonders that would blow your minds understanding. But the bottom line is does it encourage you and lift you up and propell you to do his work in saving souls. NO souls saved then you need to think again, no lies transfomed into the likeness of Christ think again…
For more information on the earliest of these “manifestations” try reading this article….
http://www.reallybigcompany.com/papers/gemstones_idaho/
Owen - I saw your site before, your emails to Patricia King et al were fair and balanced, and it is a shame they were evaded in such a way. If these people were genuine believers one would think they would rush to prove their signs and miracles, the fact they don’t indicates there is most likely charlatanism afoot….somewhere – and they know it!
I believe he really saw the gems but got caught up in the natural and wanted to keep the people interested in the first miricle that was witnessed.I have had my own signs and miricles(which I photographed and shared with my church) which would blow your mind.
These people have no discernment and are playing with fire.
I went to a couple of the Don Pirozok meetings (not these). Pirozok and his crowd really huge on signs and wonders like this. They’re also loosely linked to Extreme Prophetic, which has gone from these kinds of miracles over to pure prosperity gospel nonsense (at least judging by the last few e-mails I’ve received).
It’s so pathetic to imagine someone being as deluded as the Vineyard leader. Anything to keep promoting “miracles.” Unbelievable.
Cukes; what kind of prosperity rubbish specifically? I know they are Dominionist based, transfer of wealth and all that rubbish, is that what you mean?
Yes, exactly. Towards the end of last year I noticed that Patricia’s emails were moving from ’signs and wonders’ to ‘let me hoover your pocketbook’. Part of it was to, I’m sure, get their hands on any ‘excess money’ people might have had laying around at the end of the year (for tax purposes). But she’s continued it into the new year and I’m really seeing a kind of desperation in her communications.
I think she’d probably say that she was experiencing some sort of ‘anointing’ but it has occurred to me that perhaps she’s overextended herself and her usual sources of funds are unable to give due to deteriorating economic conditions here in the States. This is only speculation on my part, but I suspect there’s a bit of truth to it.
Flen repented please read this beofre you go further with this. It is becomiong gossip! we are to forgive!
Here are the 2 emails received from Glen concerning the email you sent to me.
He has repented and is very open about it all.
—– Original Message —–
From: gsmith5647@aol.com
To: New Wine Network
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 11:32 PM
Subject: [NEW-WINE] Re: A GREAT Day: re: Gemstones
Greetings list.
I want to first thank every single one of you for the love and forgiveness you have shown.
I will be replying in the next day or two so you all have the questions answered.
I will say 2 things in this short email. First none of the stones seeded or mailed were purchased. They all showed up in our home or in other meetings.
Finally, I see it as a great day. Sad because of what I personally did and how wrong I was. I repent truly but every day that Jesus made is a great day. It is also great because we feel so much love from the body in the New Wine list.
I will write more in a day or so as was advised by spiritual authority.
Blessings,
Glenn Smith
—– Original Message —–
From: gsmith5647@aol.com
To: New Wine Network
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 11:40 PM
Subject: [NEW-WINE] New Wine Family.
25 January 2008
Dear New Wine Family,
First, I want to say thank you for all of your kindness and words of encouragement this time in our lives.
We were excited when in October of 2006 God brought the first gemstone in our home. We have been excited this entire year with the love that we have felt from the Body of Christ and from Jesus through the many different stones that came from God.
In the last few days, I have been encouraged and want to thank everyone for the kindness in the discussions. I have enjoyed the talks about manifestations, how and why God brings the manifestations and what to do with them. One thing I do know for certain is that when God manifests anything it signifies a HOLY time. God is Holy and God is just. God is true and fortunately in my case merciful.
I thank God for what he has done in and through the gems in the last 18 months. I was thrilled to hear what God has done in many locations throughout the United States and that we were not the only ones being blessed as God specifically told me these were not for me but for His entire body including me. It excites me that God is doing this elsewhere in the United States as we were not the first and will definitely not be the last blessed with this.
I am reminded of the story of Moses when he was in the wilderness and the water had not yet come. God had told him to strike the rock and he had obeyed but he did not trust so he struck the rock again. While I do not see myself anywhere near the level of a Moses, I was tempted and worried because of a lack of trust in God. I therefore failed which you have heard graciously through Mike about.
I want you to know that the only stones that were ever seeded were ones that had been found in other meetings and in our own home. This does not excuse anything and I truly repent before each and every one of you. I can never apologize nor repent enough for getting in God’s way and attempting to help God.
The stones that were mailed to those of you who requested were from God and NOT PURCHASED. After you lay your hands to helping God your credibility is really shot but it is the truth. As I said I can never repent enough. I appreciate every one of you who has offered forgiveness and graciously sent blessings.
My pastor likes to say that if we get our hearts right God will take care of the rest. My heart has not been right. This has been proven through my actions. God is changing my heart as only He can do.
I have been and am in counseling with my own pastor and have received council, correction, and discipline. I have taken a sabbatical from ministry for a season to get my heart right and ask for each of your prayers.
I want to encourage you that God is good and that we appreciate each one of you.
Blessings,
Glenn Smith
Please, “seeded”. Seeding implies the sowing of life.
The only thing that has been seeded is deception, destruction and division in the body.
In other words , Glenn , you Lied to the Body of Christ for your own personal gain.
Until you see that, you are only lying yourself now.
later
Lovely emails, but we’re missing the point here. I don’t care less about Glenn planting them in the church. I care more about as to where these gemstones came from in the first place. I can not for the life of me see why the Holy Spirit would drop plastic-like-looking-gemstones in a Church, or infront of somsones home. It makes no sense. There is no point to it. God would never do that. So that leaves us only one other conclusion; Satan’s laughing at y’all.
I’m so open to God but this gemstone stuff has me baffled. So does the oil coming from Josh Miller’s hands. So does the feathers. If it’s God I’m all for it, but after seeing the blue sapphire dust on josh miller, I had an uneasy feeling of simony in my heart. I just don’t have peace about it. And I am open to things like this. And if Pat King is into prosperity that tells me she’s not into the Word so much. This whole stuff scares me. And how can we believe Glenn saying the gems came from God after he lied like this?
SheepTrax™ is an ezine of humor, insight, and Christian teaching featuring the wit, wisdom and deepthinking of Bryan Hupperts. See our new website, radio podcasts, tabloid, etc. at http://www.sheeptrax.com
Of Jewels, Gold Dust, and Bleeding Statues
Sure, I laugh when I read that Jesus recently did a guest appearance on a taco, or an oil slick. Of course, there are statues in India that actually drink milk. Sure, they are the Hindu gods Lord Shiva, Lord Krishna, and Lord Ganesha, but if it’s spiritual, it’s gotta be God, right? I mean, “Lord” is even mentioned in there somewhere…
Wrong!
The world over, there are spiritual phenomena happening. The most recent fad concerns jewels appearing out of the ether along with gold dust falling like dandruff. Are these things really happening? I believe the answer is Yes. Is this something God is doing? Well…
God made food appear for the children of Israel, didn’t he? He multiplied oil for a widow and don’t forget Jesus multiplying food for the masses. He is a miracle working God.
As a believer in the miraculous, I am put off by these recent spiritual fads. We have numerous miracles of bleeding statues, idols crying, strange impressions on walls, etc. As a Biblically literate believer, I know these things to be demonic. But throw in jewels and gold dust and discernment is tossed out the door.
I believe these recent “miracles” are really a gift from the alternate god, Mammon. Why? They fit the character of Mammon but do not fit the character of Jesus.
I’ve struggled with health problems for years and have seen God do provisional miracles. In every instance it met a practical need. Even when Jesus walked on water he was going somewhere. He wasn’t grandstanding for the masses. He certainly wasn’t doing tricks and sleight of hand. There was genuine need to be met.
Years ago, I got involved with the Toronto Blessing and quickly saw the bad fruist and errors in the movement, repented, and walked away. Our former pastor decided many of us were conspiring against him and asked many to leave. Our associate pastor was fired publicly. A spiritual insanity was released that continues to cause damage to this very day. This was a blessing?
That church is now an empty shell of its former self. Many TB pastors later called the stuff that went on a “mixed blessing” and later began calling it what is was, a “mixed curse”. We all wanted it to be real and looked the other way at the bizarre, demonic stuff gong on.
Jesus warned in Matthew 24 that the first sign of the End Times was deception of a nature so subtle that it could, if possible, deceive the very elect. I remind all jewel hunting saints that the devil can appear as an angel of light and work miracles, too.
There are miracle workers in Scripture that were openly occultic. The Bible does not deny their miracles, but does strongly condemn the source of their power. Moses dealt with false miracle workers. So did the Apostles. And now, so are we. Even the witch at Endor could resurrect the spirit of a dead prophet.
WARNING:
The jewels and gold dust are symptoms of a sick faith in desperate need of God. In the coming days you will see “the dead” appearing in worship services, bringing words of great wonder for the faithful. The problem will be that necromancy is still sin. But that’s OK, it will be taught, because even as Jesus raised the dead, and these will be raised by the new miracle workers “in spirit” as a testimony to the faithful. It will be a great deception, but it will fill prophetic conferences and sell a lot of books and videos.
The same idolatry and hucksterism that has plagued the Roman church is now running rampant in the Protestant church. Why? Babylon is as Babylon does.
When donuts begin to multiply in the church foyer, should I assume the spirit of Homer Simpson has come? Goodness. Just because something is spiritual looking does not make it a God thing. In this case, quite the opposite.
(c) 2007
Bryan Hupperts
http://www.sheeptrax.com
What bothers me here about this glenn smith thing is that he planted gems, but maintains they were gems from God. I can’t believe he got gems from God in the first place if he planted them in the second place! Can’t these vineyard pastors see this? As for counting gems, I did a fun game once with some students. They had to count spaghetti. I wanted them to bring me exactly fifty pieces. Boy did they screw up. Some brought 45 some 48 some 53 but only one boy brought fifty. They when I counted them I messed up myself. I know God can do anything but I don’t believe this glenn smith ever got gemstones from God in the first place. God loves the guy but he needs healing and to repent for real.
Is this blog really what the Lord has called you to ? Are you REALLY speaking the word of God as your blog title says ? It baffles me how belivers put more time and energy trying to expose what they would call a possible lie to steer someone clear of supposed heresy, INSTEAD OF DOING WHAT JESUS SAID TO DO. “GO INTO ALL THE WORLD AND PREACH THE GOSPEL AND MAKE DISCIPLES OF ALL NATIONS.” Truly there are those who are in error but God is truly a supernatural God and God still genuinely moves supernatually. Let us make sure not to throw the baby out with the bath water. Did not Jesus say, greater works than these shall you do. They took a coin out of a fish’s mouth to pay taxes did they not. I guess God can supply a need anyway He chooses even if that means dropping a jewel or two from heaven to meet that need.
Chukes… Your comments about Patricia and her attempt to gather MORE money, reminded me of this that arrived from Elijah List this week. Titled ‘God is going to do something exciting in church to bring the youth in’. or similiar words…
Then at the end is said…
‘When the brook dries up in your life, it’s time to share your promise with someone else. Providing a future for someone else. Think about it.
God has shown me through prophetic revelation that the recession that has been predicted shall not be. If you truly believe this with me, then remember that during this season it is important to sow, and especially into the prophetic voices that carry this future promise. Sharing your finances and supporting God’s servants is likely to bring blessings that you were not anticipating into your life. Stand with us as we carry the “abundance” to the Nation through His spoken Word. We are launching our TV show, “Call Me Crazy, but I’m Hearing God,” this month and encourage you to support us in our venture to reach out into the Marketplace and present our King the Christ to dying human beings.
With Blessings and Love,
Kim Clement
Paula,
By all means sow to the prophetic if God has told you to. This is a proper place to use the gift of discernment. To sin means to miss the target. You can do that with your money too.
Along with 30,000 others I’ve just been at the London World day of prayer held at Millwall football stadium and was rather disturbed at the way the offering was preceeded by a five minute piece of ‘give us your money’ dressed up in biblical language. The real shame was that it interupted the best section of prayer that we had all afternoon…
If God wants it to happen then he will bless and multiply your provisions ( probably without resorting to growing gems!!!).
I hope you are right about the recession bit, but in the UK our surplus cash that we have used for charity and church purposes is drying up big time. My essential outgoings have gone up by about 15 percent this year alone. My friends are all in the same boat. Unless something changes rather miraculously, rather soon, we are going to continue down the slope that leads to serious recession.
On the plus side God is alive and well and still promising to supply all our needs…
I hope that the personalities involved in your project are ploughing their own abundance back into the project and not into the, somewhat reduced, profits of Mercedes Benz! This is a good test of your natural discernment. Any Jesus centred project that passes this test will not be left in need. I hope your project goes well.
GO INTO ALL THE WORLD AND PREACH THE GOSPEL …
Just curious, what do you foks think the gospel of Jesus Christ is?
I was in one of Glenn Smith’s meetings, where there was an abundance of gemstones. I had the impression that they were intentionally dropped by Smith. People were in a frenzy and kids were crawling all over the floor, picking up the gemstones. It was like being at a parade and someone had thrown out candy. This was before the meeting even started, and almost all of the gemstones were identical in size and color. I questioned why the gemstones appeared before the meeting began and why they were all the same. I picked up a gemstone that I found in front of me, but I knew that it had been planted.
Yes, Glenn Smith was wrong to plant or “seed” the gemstones, but who are we to cast the first stone? Smith is a real human being, and I got to meet him and his wife. Smith has some growing to do. Let God be the Judge!
We are not to look for signs, but we are to keep our focus on Jesus. He is the Author and Perfector of our faith.
No, the church are the judge – read the Bible. Glenn is a liar, crook and false prophet – that is not OK at all. Yes he is a human being, but you do not let a thief rob a house without raising the alarm. Think about it, this is not about growing up, for God’s sake! – he has no fear of God and will happily decieve the saints.
I see there is another Sarah posting now. Miriam, do you think I should start using my middle name also? I have posted quite alot on here lately, and also referred several people to this site. I would hate to have our posts mixed up and cause confusion for some people I’ve been trying to reach regarding this revival.
You could be groovy girl
ps you could also get an avatar.
Groovy Girl…I like it! How do I get an avatar?
Create an account at word press
Wasn’t that what you called yourself on YouTube or is that the other Sarah?
Yep, that’s my user name on YouTube – my husband is a drummer & always goes by the “groovemaster” so I’m “groovy girl”. Thanks, I’ll go set up an account at wordpress.
As a custom jeweler, gemologist and “rock hound”, I have 44 years of experience in identifying rocks, minerals, crystals, etc; I was myself geology major at Shoreline College. I have also extensively dredged and panned for gold since 1961. My wife and I operate a custom jewelry business, as well as pastor a non-denominational Full-Gospel Christian church in Lynnwood, Washington.
While in Baltimore I was given samples from Ashland, VA to identify. To do so, I employed my knowledge of gold, my geology books, as well as my jeweler’s double microscope. Under microscope this material is clearly gold colored Mylar. Mylar, as we know is a man made plastic. The material shows under the microscope as squares. It is easily recognized as Mylar. I also applied a gold acid test; this also showed this material as not gold, but synthetic man made material.
There has been much of this Mylar, and other man made materials being passed off as gold in the Christian arena as a phenomena of God… Natural ground Mica is also passed off as gold, but usually in the retail business. To date, I have had three different individuals bringing me “flakes” of what they thought were gold to identify which were obtained in Christian services. One sample was from a church in Washington State (mica). Another sample from a Christian Camp in Ashland, Virginia (Mylar) and this third sample which was given to me in Maryland, which came from Ashland. None has been gold.
Unfortunately this has not stopped modern day charlatans from passing off this material as “God” and His “glory” to innocent and trusting Christians. Many Christians have also chosen to believe even in the face of the truth that this still was from God. The newest deception is “gemstones” from “angels” appearing in services. I have also seen these and they are synthetic man-made stones. As far as I know, none of the “gold” or “gemstones” recovered in services has been real. Some I saw at a conference in Eastern Washington, which came from a ministry in Coeur D’Alene, Idaho, and some from a Seattle group. These false manifestations divert people from the truth of the Gospel and make those who believe in this those who “seek a sign” as Jesus warned about.
Serious students and scholars of the Bible know that there is nothing to indicate in the Word that this phenomenon would or should occur. A thorough study of the scriptures reveals God’s glory as His Presence and the finished Work of the Cross (arrest, beating, trial, death and resurrection). We see also that glory is spoken of in the Bible as worship, and judgment. No where is it spoken of as a substance, or a manifestation of what man considers wealth. God’s glory in the scriptures always refers to spiritual matters, not physical.
Jesus was clear on which signs believers should expect. Mark 16:17-18 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” NKJV
I pray this clears up any confusion or question as to this issue.
Just as a side note – the above mentioned conference was so strange – more talking about an angel, the gems she was giving, and what the angel was wearing than about Jesus, and what He had given. But hey, we can expect this type of thing – after all, a third of them did fall……
See also http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/08/03/charismatic-gemstones-and-glory-gold-dust-signs-and-wonders/
I know that I look young but I’ve around in the ministry for 33 years. So, I’ve seen a few things. Find more about the Gold Dust and bleeding hands false gospel, here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/4878677/TODD-BENTLEY-Magical-DREAM-Weavers-Pastor-Patricia-King-JOHN-CROWDER-JEFF-JANSEN-and-the-new-MYSTICAL-FOLLOWERS-
Pat Holliday
To the author of the lead in article who identifies their self as “me.” So you have brought accusation to the appearance of gold dust and gemstones in services as fraud, but I have to say that all you have brought is accusation along with one example of fraud. I’m sorry, but I’m not impressed. If this were a criminal trial against a suspect your testimony would be circumstantial and quite weak indeed. Your interpretation of the events neither establishes nor denies the whole of the matter nor more than when Frank Abignail Jr. posed as a Pan Am Airways pilot and was found to be a fraud, did that establish whether Pilots and Aircraft do or do not exist. What I see established here more than anything is your personal predjudice against miraculous occurances as is evidenced by your hasty leap to draw a conclusion. So blined by your passion are you that you have overlooked the fact that each case must be looked at individually, because yes there are counterfeits, but there’s never a counterfeit of something that does’nt exist. Also I don’t see in your aligation where you have sought the Lord on the matter to see what He would say about it. I’ve read the Word and I have seen more evidence for unusual miracles than contray to. “For my ways are not man’s ways nor are man’s ways mine (paraphrase)”
I’m responding to the comment made by the respondent Lillian Ching. You make the comment that God’s glory “always refers to spiritual matters, not phisical.” I won’t belabor the point, but I’m sure that you know the definition of always. So, on to how you mention a “thorough study of the scripture reveals God’s glory as his presence and finished work on the cross.” Although I would agree with you that for you and I that is God’s greatest manifestation on His glory, but because I’m just an amateur student of scripture and not a scholor, I beg to differ that God’s glory only fefers to the spiritual and not phisical. In my ammateur appraisal of scripture I find in Genisis that man is created in God’s image…let’s see, that’s phisical and not about the cross. In the gospels Jesus feeds the 4000 and the 5000…let’s see, that’s a miracle and phisical and that’s a revealing of His glory. When Jesus walks on water or turns water into wine those a phisical and He is revealing His glory. Perhaps you don’t have a full grasp on what the English word glory means. Maybe you should start there, because maybe, just mayben He will reveal it in gemstones and gold.
[...] C. KingHisglory Glenn Smith was caught red-handed a year ago planting gemstones in a church (see here). He then “repented” and was “disciplined” by church elders. Now [...]
Pingback by Glenn Smith the Gemstone Planter Is At It Again: Lying With Premeditation About Gemstones « My Beloved Made a Whip | December 18, 2008
brian, while i thoroughly agreed with most everything you said, the last sentence leaves me thinking you take similar liberties with the use of the word maybe that Ching could be said to use with always. i thought you made a good point about spiritual/physical manifestation, one that i can certainly attest to in my own observations and experience, but while related, the conclusion was not substantially justified. i think the poster, Brian Huppert, said it well:
“I believe these recent “miracles” are really a gift from the alternate god, Mammon. Why? They fit the character of Mammon but do not fit the character of Jesus.
I’ve struggled with health problems for years and have seen God do provisional miracles. In every instance it met a practical need. Even when Jesus walked on water he was going somewhere. He wasn’t grandstanding for the masses. He certainly wasn’t doing tricks and sleight of hand. There was genuine need to be met.”
in any event, what we are talking about when you come down to it is glitter and chicken feathers, man. Jesus doesn’t have a bedazzler. beyond that the issue is discernment. if someone gets that red flag, they check it out, go to the word, use their brains, pray, and send that crap to a lab if necessary, but then most importantly SAY SOMETHING. the next thing may be far more subtle and disastrous, these are the end times as far as we can tell.
Email sent to Glenn Smith 10th January 2008
Response from ministry 11th January 2008
NO RESPONSE SINCE.
Very telling.
“And I would have gotten away with it too, if it hadn’t been for those meddling kids and their mangy dog!”
Miriam and Lillian Ching,
I have been trying to follow the gold dust gems thing and have been searching around on the net I came accross this site below. There is a blog entitled “Raining pennies from heaven? Try gold dust and precious gems” It was written by someone called “NOEMIE”
It is about their experience in a chutch in Oshawa Canada. The goldust apparently appeared in a couples bedroom and house and they received the gemstones from angels in a dream/vision. The couple had the gold dust tested and apparently it is real. The gems were assayed as real and not manmade but unidentifiable. Here is excerpts from the article:
“From that day on, the finest gold dust began to fall all over Peter and Debbie’s home. As it slowly fell from nowhere, it settled on furniture, tables, bed covers, everything, just like normal dust would. But this was no usual dust. It came to the point where Peter even had it incrusted in his belly hair. And they had to dust themselves off after stepping outside. This stuff covered everything.”
“As she related the facts, Debbie went on to say that God had told her the gold dust was going to come into the church too. Cool. I wanted to see it.”
“The gold dust, they brought that to a gemologist as well. Indeed it is gold, pure gold. They could get money for it if they scooped it up off the furniture and brought it in… but Peter and Debbie aren’t into that.” ENDQUOTE
The question for me is if this is a deception why would God let People who say they are Christians and have a testimony of coming to faith in Christ be deceived. What of their claims that the gold dust is real. I read recently about the supposed origin of the gold dust phenomenon through a woman called Alejandra Martinez from Guadalehara. And also of a connection of the gold dust phenomenon to Ruth Heflin. The question is, do all churches who experience these things share a connection with these people. A tall order of a question perhaps!!??
dnoemieboutet.blogspot.com/2006_12_01_archive.html – 59k – Cached – Similar pages
Greg.