Todd Bentley prophesying and doing some bad cold reading
I came across a video clip of Todd Bentley some months ago, and was going to include a link to it in a much longer article about Todd Bentley. Unfortunately, I have lacked the time to write this proposed article up properly since, so in the meantime, until I can writer a longer article on Todd Bentley and his beliefs and his ministry and his prophecies, I will release this part, which says a lot about this man and his ministry in just a few minutes worth of video clip.
As background information, Todd Bentley is relatively new on the Christian scene and he’s young (much younger than he looks in the video), and seems to be flavour of the month in certain quarters. He is linked to Patricia King of Extreme Prophetic (who I understand helped bring him on in ministry), and so he is joined at the hip with aberrent Kansas City prophet Bob Jones, who Patricia King is influenced and mentored by. Todd Bentley is very Latter Rain influenced (Latter Rain is a heresy) and Bentley now even claims to have William Branham’s ministry angels helping him. (These angels seem to get about and often seem to be in two places at once, if we are to believe all the ministers who have encounters with Branham’s angels - an alleged encounter being a badge of honour to wear in the current movement, which opens a few doors into churches and gets a few more bottoms on pews.)
There are much longer videos on the web of this man, which I wish I knew how to cut (if anyone knows how…) so you can see the pertinent segments I wish to point to without having to sit through half an hour or more of bad teaching first. I’ve seen him on several occasions speaking tongues publicly - no interpretation of course, like most pentecostals. It is very odd hearing his type of tongue, even for someone like me, used to pentecostalism, charismaticalism and its excesses, and having heard what some of the counterfeit sounds like. It is clearly demonic in his case - go listen to it and you’ll see EXACTLY what I mean. Even on this few minutes worth of clip, there are some odd sounds coming from him while ‘ministering’ - ‘boom bah!’ etc.
Anyway, the reason why I want to highlight the clip in this article, is not because of false tongues, but because the first three minutes of this clip are classic ‘how not to prophesy’. Watch the first three minutes as that’s the section that I want to talk on. Todd Bentley is supposed to be ‘prophesying’ here. Many in the New Apostolic scene call him a ‘prophet’. But what he is actually doing is the worst ‘cold reading’ and fumbling around and backtracking I’ve ever seen. If he were a secular stage psychic he’d had been booed off stage and rightly so, as he is not slick in what he is doing. But as he is in the church, and many Christians are naive and trusting and will not discern and will accept almost anything (apart from criticism of their anointed ones), people will take it from him, and believe him to be anointed because they fall down backwards when he touches them. Even when he directly asks questions of his ministerees, he still manages to get it badly wrong! Look how much he fumbles around with the first lady for example, desperately searching for clues and going by what she gives him - you just know he would have changed his ‘prophecy’ to suit whatever she told him. It is some prophecy and some prophet! To do this lacks integrity, and of course betrays him as a false prophet - for I tell you the truth, if he had knowledge of the true gift he would not dare to do this! After lots of prophetic misses, on several different people, he seems to give up prophesying for a while and instead either asks people directly what’s wrong with them and then quickly ’slays them in the spirit’, or the people fall over themselves helping him out, by telling him what’s wrong.
The clips is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPdS77Z3MBY
Cold reading, by the way, is what fake psychics do - they go off the clues you give them - by your body language, facial expression, by what you say to them. (In the following section you can replace the word ’psychic’ with ‘Christian minister’ or ‘prophet’ or ‘apostle’ to see what I am saying in this case and how it applies to the modern day church). They then speak in broad and vague catch all terms that can be taken and interpreted in multiple ways. (A Christian cold reader can be even vaguer and make the false prophecy dependent on faith so the Christian blames himself when it does not come to pass.) Often when someone goes for a psychic reading, they do almost all the talking, the psychic just agrees with them, smiles, says a few things that can be taken to mean many things, and the person goes away thinking the psychic knew everything - they forget what they told the psychic first. If the psychic is clever and subtle, this can look very effective and the person will swear they did not tell the psychic anything first - as this is what they will truly remember of the incident. The mind filters out the rest - it’s human psychology. In a Christian setting, the one being ministered to is often so caught up in worship or spiritual rapture, or their own internal world or dialogue with God, or desparation, or striving, or in tongues or manifesting or whatever, that they are even more susceptible and even less likely to notice, let alone remember, what really went on during ‘ministry’. One wonders how these ladies in the clip later relayed the incident on this Todd Bentley clip. I bet it will not be ‘Todd had lots of misses and then said this… (the bit they remember)’. They will filter out the misses and fumbling and just remember the good, or what they wanted to hear, or what they thought he said - not what it actually said. The mind is a funny and selective thing. (I’ve had the same thing after a sermon where almost all the congregation will insist their pastor did not really say what he clearly did.)
I’ve known incidents of spiritualist mediums doing what seems to be an amazing reading about a woman’s dead fiance, giving really clear specific details about how he died, his looks, his foibles, his name etc….. it all seemed very impressive - except that this same medium had ’read’ this same woman about six months or so before, and was told all about him then. But the woman being read accepted it second time around as an amazing demonstration of the supernatural!
Spiritualist churches are often relatively small, where after a while almost everyone knows who the regulars are desparately trying to contact, and the same sad events happen week after week with usually fumbled cold (or warm) readings - ‘he’s sending you a rose, love, … love and light’ - with pieces of suitably banal information coming out over the weeks - so all the ‘church’ leader needs to do is prep a visiting speaker in beforehand with some of the regulars’ details and you then have a seemingly amazing demonstration and ‘proof of the spirit world’ by the visiting speaker. This could work just as well in a Christian setting as well, adding in some hallelujahs, worship music, and slaying in the spirit for even more of a ‘powerful’ demonstration of what is actually charlatanism. (Note I am not saying all spiritists or ministers do this, there are some who do not think themselves charlatans and genuinely have occultic encounters, but there are more quacks than occultists on the psychic/medium route, and it’s funny how most of the mediums have to sound camp too, with the same silly stage voice and mannerisms (when actually they are butch off stage. They’re more like Butlins entertainers than occultists - think Derek Acorah with the blonde highlights but a bit more camp.)
I think it was the medium Sylvia Browne who disgracefully used the bereaved, by researching the newspapers for tragedies in a town she was about to visit, contacting a grieving mother beforehand offering to help her contact her daughter, meeting up with her and getting all sorts of specific information, and then asking the Mum to sit in a certain spot in the audience on the night with a bright red dress on, so she could spot her if she got a message from the departed one. On the night, on cue, Sylvia did get a message for the woman in the red dress (making out they had never met and this was all coming to her directly in spirit), and then proceeded to tell her all the Mum had told her a couple of days before about her daughter- nothing more. The mum was disgusted. She saw through it - other grieving parents are unfortunately so desperate they would not see through this, or they would choose not to see through this. Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies. It comforts me. And the rest of the audience, not party to this ploy, thought Sylivia was amazing for knowing all this and their faith in the psychic increased! They were taken as mugs.
Television or stage psychics also have producers and researchers to help them who ask detailed questions before the show is aired. It’s only a matter of trust on the part of the public that this information is not passed onto the psychic by the researcher. Doris Stokes, the world-famous medium, was well known for either planting stooges in her audience, or researching up some of her audience beforehand. Peter Popoff, tv evangelist and charlatan extraordinaire, was caught out by sceptic James Randi, with a hidden ear-piece feeding him audience information that he pretended was prophetic words of knowledge given him direct from the Holy Spirit. Have you ever seen the ‘prayer requests’ you write and fill in at huge pentecostal healing rallies, that you add into the bucket with your financial offering (inferring the more money you give to THEM, the more likely you will be healed or the more likely God will hear your prayer - all major credit cards accepted) containing your specific and often detailed information? This is passed around before the actual ministry starts, often several times. Sometimes, when you have to register for charismatic/pentecostal/prophetic conferences, similarly specific information is asked, often weeks or months in advance that people long have forgotten about writing by the time the conference starts. Can you see how this information could be used to be read back in ministry time to you as a pretend word of knowledge/prophecy? If you don’t believe me, do what James Randi did and fill in some far fetched bogus information on one of these slips and see if it comes back to you as a word of knowledge by your revered minister! (’But the minister had no way of knowing that’! Really?!)
In a smaller setting, as mentioned, visiting ministers can be prepped by talkative pastors or church gossips. And there are very big name evangelists (not just Peter Popoff) who have been shown to use stooges - that is plants in the audience - who pretend to be healed or respond to an amazingly accurate pretend word of knowledge. But most Christians would never ever even suspect such a thing (I did not) - as they are so naive, sweet and trusting - that is gullible - (I was) - thinking everyone in Christiandom plays fair, and everyone who is spirit-filled loves and honours God as much as they do. Many are so desperate to believe and be healed or get a word or whatever, they will overlook the obvious - but there are so-called ’Christian’ ministers who do do it deliberately and systematically! They lie, cheat, and don’t play fair. The church is easy game. Whose fault is it? Well theirs, and the church’s, if they continue to tolerate them! Peter Popoff was caught out in the act, but many more have not been caught - yet - or if they have, no one really cares, look how many still support Popoff!
Other examples of cold reading include people like medium John Edwards, saying to a large audience very all encompassing things, and general names and initials, and going with the flow, changing the reading as it goes along depending on the audience cues. if you have a large enough audience, any information you make up, even seemingly specific and detailed, is bound to have a hit, so if your information misses with the person you are reading, it will fit someone else who claims the reading. The same can be said for words of knowledge, walk around any crowd, whether they be at a ball game, a burger restaurant or a church conference, with a medical dictionary of common medical complaints, read them out at random, and you’ll get the same percentage of hits. More on cold reading is here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading and here http://skepdic.com/coldread.html
Example of a cold reading where the psychic can’t be wrong:
Psychic asks: Did she like dogs…
Answer: yes she loved them - this is a HIT
Response, affirming statement - yes I see lots of dogs around her in spirit, she is with some dogs in spirit
Or
Answer: no she hated them, was scared of them
Quick Response/backtrack - yes, you’re right she hated them, telling me how much (laughs), but you know she says she’s ok with them now…. - this miss becomes a HIT and a confirming/comforting statement
Example 2;-
‘I’m getting a name….a M initial….’
(almost everyone knows someone with an M initial dead or alive, but if they don’t, then ‘look for someone coming with a M initial who will be very important to you in your life…’) Again its either a HIT or a psychic prophetic statement that has a good chance of coming to pass as it is so broad.
An example of a broad catch all statement:
Psychic: I see marriage around you….
Answer: I am married. - HIT Psychic responds to how the response is made, happy or sad facial expression, to say something suitably banal about marriage
Answer: I’m not married. - Miss becomes a HIT, Psychic responds to how the response is made, giggly happy, bitter, or sad ,to say something like ‘you will be’, or ‘your past hurts weighing you down and your divorce is keeping you back…’ or ‘you will minister to the married’ or whatever.
This is exactly what Todd Bentley was doing when he was talking about children with the first lady. He’ll make a way for it to fit somehow. Who cares if what he prophesies is actually true or not?
ya better watch what you say about the man of GOD!!!!!
All your opinions are worthless when people have documented proof of healings. Regardless of how you perceive Todd Bentley… The power of God is working through him.. and people are being healed. Praise God!
Aaron - but if your ‘man of God’ errs, than I am doing him and his adoring fans one huge favour by speaking out, am I not, so they can have a chance to get back onto the right road of truth? And if he doesn’t repent, and they don’t, I still have a biblical duty to warn about ‘men of God’ spreading false teaching, or other errant behaviour. No ‘man’ or ‘woman’ of God is above being corrected. Or would you rather be blissfully ignorant and decieved by decieving spirits - and have your fun while manifesting? Well, you have been warned now, so cannot say you were not warned.
And Carmagail - so what if people are healed, if they are, if they are led to false conversions and spiritual death by false teaching and seductive spirits.
Oh, and by your comments about the ‘man of God’, Aaron. does that mean you think Todd Bentley is on a higer level than us mere mortals (that is above correction, above criticism, above error…
- so you, we, anybody else other than ministers on the platform are not ‘men of God’ like him, we are just ‘mere Christians’ and can be corrected, but people like him cannot as they are not subject to the same plumbline as normal people. If so, you are an utter fool. People like him have a greater plumbline, not a lesser one, with higher standards to live up to, and there is even more reason for public rebuke and correction when they err than for the normal ‘man on the street’.
ps Carmagail - how do you know it is the POWER OF GOD working through Todd Bentley?
Some spiritualists heal too, and none in the church would claim they use the power of God - they would say, rather, it is demonic. I don’t care how much you think Todd is the bee’s knees but please listen to his tongues and tell me that is NOT demonic.
Anyway, if a man comes along performing signs and wonders but preaching an errant gospel, who is aligned with false prophets associated with antichrist doctrine (manifest sons of God/Latter Rain), who is not averse to using fakery and/or charlatanism, what does that make him?
Also Carmagail, whatever you think about the healings, the video clip was about bad cold reading, and Todd Bentley does bad cold reading badly. If you still claim he is a prophet then really, you’ll accept anything as godly, and more fool you for it, it is not an attribute to your credit. The Bible calls such people fools. Will you repent of this foolish behaviour, be wise and actually discern, test and weigh?
Does that mean the Bible is worthless too, for it is the Bible I base my opinions on and quote and follow to this end?
Does that also mean you will ignore everything, however Biblical, that speaks against Todd and his ilk, and go be an anointing junkie… effectively damning the consequences? After all, if it feels good, it can’t be bad …. or can it?
There is a banner running along the bottom of the screen of the currently running Todd Bentley Florida Fire Revival Meeting on God TV. It runs through the remainder of week of 4/21. If you recieve GTV, go check it out. A testimony from a “Richard” claims to have been healed of scars from a hysterectamy and deep cuts recieved from a sheet metal accident. Since when do males have hysterectamies?
My wife and I get a kick out of the “drunks” flying about and dropping to the floor kicking and squeeling. It;s very comical but sad at the same time.
I just happened to come across your blog, and wonder what you are doing to save the lost, heal the sick, cast out devils, etc.
In other words, are you doing anything other than operating as a critic of public ministries who must submit to the pastors and elders of the churches where they minister?
I was born in a Latter Rain church, Bethesda Missionary Temple in Detroit Michigan in 1950. I have heard about lots of supposed excess of pentacostal churches like ours, but never experienced it, in spite of attacks from extremists such as you seem to be. I have also attended and been greatly blessed by ministries of Kim Clement, Rodney Howard Browne, John Arnot at Toronto Vineyard Church to name a few that I suspect you would also paint with the brush of “false prophet” or “heretic”. Jesus himself was proclaimed a false prophet by his religious critics, none of whom could raise the dead, heal the sick, or cast out devils. If you have proof of such manifestations of the Holy Spirit in your ministry, then you might be qualified to criticize others who have such proof, in the spirit of edification, exhortation and comfort. Otherwise, you are just one more self proclaimed ignorant critic who stands on the sidelines throwing stones at those who are bold enough to proclaim the acceptable year of Lord, bringing sight to the blind, and deliverance to the oppressed. I feel sorry for you.
Barnabus - you are closed minded. If you had read any of the rest of this blog you would have known the answer to all the questions you ask, which are not really questions, they are you trying to practise one-upmanship to keep me quiet. Just because someone speaks up about a pentecostal ministry, does NOT mean they deny the genuine power of God or do not experience it in their life. I hate the genuine, but love the true. Now, let’s move onto the subject of discernment shall we - that is discerning between the true and false?
ps How do you have PROOF it is the HOLY SPIRIT, or the manifestation of the Spirit - by what criteria do you judge a work to be from God?
What I really find troubling are all the people who
run to florida because their ears itch because they believe the move of God is happing without them. It appears to me that the blind are just being lead by the blind. Who cares about what is claimed to be happening
No one can raise the spiritual dead except God who draws him near. If you truly have a relationship with the son stop watching God tv stopping running to these events and become committed to your church get underleadership the man of god someone is willing to correct you if needed and not afraid your fellings will be hurt then go out and witness. the problem with most of you are you believe more of what this so called man of God says and you cant compare it with your bible because you dont know what it says.
The Bible tells us we can test the Spirits. Todd Bentley is using Jesus Christ. So, according to the Word of God, he is not being used by a demon. You have a form of Godliness, but deny the power there of. I am a missionary in the Philippines and God is using me to wake up dead denominations to His power. You need to wake up, because you are fighting against God. How do you know Jesus, when you don’t seem to know the Holy Spirit? Kinda like the Pharisees claimed to know the Father, but did not recognize the Son. I am praying for you, that you would not be guilty of blaspheming the Holy Spirit. You know not what you do.
Patrick, you completely miss not just my points, but also the Bible’s points about spiritual discernment, testing those who come in the name of Jesus as well as the obvious false prophets - those whose come in the name of other gods. The most dangerous ones are the ones who are nearer to the real thing - just like counterfeit notes.
this guy (bentley) claims ”look what i did”, ”did you just see me” etc…he gives no glory to Christ who would be the only one responsible for healings. even Christs diciples could not heal everyone (matt ch 17) AND THEY WALKED WITH CHRIST!! if you babble about enough afflictions, you will find someone with something…he said something about a rash on someones hands, i have eczema…guess what, i still do. the only thing we xtians should do is point people to salvation in Christ, any healings should also be attributed to Him (Jesus) as far as knowing what people have what disease, they showed how that works in fletch lives
See also
http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/a-false-healing-revival-todd-bentley-and-lakeland-ignited-events/
I won’t attack you for your article, because even though I am a New Winer, I am a bit reserved, and believe that we are COMMANDED to test all spirits. I also believe that if the Bible states that in the end times even the “elect” will be deceived, and if Jesus Himself states, “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” then I have no problem testing all the spirits, including those with devil casting, healing, raising from the dead prophetic ministries. Obviously, someone is going to have a prophetic ministry with signs and wonders and be workers of iniquity.
The trouble is when ALL PROPHETS, ALL MIRACLE WORKING MINISTRIES, and ALL REVIVALS end up being labeled as false on blogs like these.
What criteria do you use to determine that a move of God is false, because I know one thing, when I “test” a move of God, I am very hesitant to state that it is in fact false.
Who in their right mind would want to be guilty of blaspheming the Holy Spirit that way?
Honestly, I have found that it is extremely difficult to label one ministry or another as false- basically because I’ve found that God is in the business of grace, mercy, and forgiveness. I would never say that because people were shaking, speaking in tongues, or being slain in the spirit that I have all the criteria needed to judge a move as “false.” Also, I believe that ministers may make mistakes along the way, but that doesn’t mean it is false, and if God restores, educates, and trains them up- who am I to cast off their ministry?
Now, about Andrew Strom’s word, I would like to see some verification regarding the teaching on “guided visualization” to enter the third heaven (as stated that Todd Bentley and Patricia King teach. I have never heard this teaching, but honestly, I don’t like the sound of that. Any information on those teachings would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Charisse
They aren’t, if you read this blog through you will see I believe in the true. However there is a lot of speaking up about the false as the false is far more common in today’s church than the true.
Nobody, that’s why you test and weigh using the scriptural model and use the gifts of spiritual discernment and wisdom. You should not be afraid to test a teaching or a minister in case you blaspheme the Spirit - that is a fear that keeps many Christians in bondage and deception - if you test wisely and well then you honour God - you rather grieve the Holy Spirit when you do NOT test. Also nobody here is saying that because someone shakes then it has to be false for that reason alone.
Why have catchers in back of you if the lord is going to heal and protect you. Also, you lose all muscle power when you pass out/lose conscience so how can you close your eyes and brace for a fall and gently fall into the arms of the catcher. I bet 100% of these people wouldn’t fall under the power if the catcher wasn’t in contact with their body.
How well does this mere mortal, creature of fallen flesh and dust as the rest of the world is, judge Todd Bentley as though they are the FINAL word on what is or is not of the Father! It is an honor to read something posted by someone who obviously lives in the throne room of God and knows everything that is or is not of God!! To forget that all men are Gods beloved children, and that to slander, gossip, judge, etc. Gods children breaks the Fathers heart. To see such self-righteous implication of perfection as an all-knowing, all-discerning, all-perceiving person is sickening and shameful. Please tell us, oh reader of the Heart and Mind of the King of the Universes, who else is false and untrue? Surely you know, as you would never condemn the work of Christ unless you knew exactly what God is doing? And it is amazing to read the writing of one who is obviously more discerning than any of the 10’s of thousands of people who have been exposed to Todd Bentley’s teaching! Hark! For here is one who has been enlightened and is ultimate in discernment!! What a genius, who can explain for us exactly what is permissable to be from God and that which is not! Oh that I could obtain such an all-encompassing level of discernment such as this! To be so high and lofty in the courts of the Lord that I could declare publicly that someone being used mightily by Jesus is a false prophet! To be so sure of myself, so haughty and sure! What are the intentions of your heart, oh weigher of spirits? Within discernment lies reservation based on contemplation of the Spirit. To claim that what Todd Bentley is doing is false, is to claim that the thousands of fellow Christians that attend his meetings are not filled with the Holy Spirit, for the Spirit cannot bear witness with one on a matter yet not bear witness with another on the same matter. That would be equal to the Holy Spirit lying, which is now blasphemey of the work of the Spirit of the Living God!!!! Now you have begun through your proclamations of heresy, to say that those that agree with Bentley’s teaching are not filled with the Holy Spirit because you are and He is telling you that this move is heresy!! So then, you are the only one filled with the Spirit because surely myriads of people that also claim to be Spirit filled are liars if their spirit bears witness to that which is false! God NEVER contradicts Himself!! He would never allow His Spirit to bear witness with one on a subject and with another say that the subject is false!! Oh blind one doing such wonderous works for the Father! Lol, rather than declaring the Spirit of my Father a LIAR, put that same effort and time into seeking the Father’s heart for this time! Stop wasting time speaking ill of God’s children and go into the highways and byways and compel the lost to come in! That is what you should be doing, oh mighty judge of the Spirit!!!
A.J.
9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. [2 thes 2:9-12]
24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. [Matthew 24:24]
15″Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
21″Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ [Matthew 7:15-23]
We are also told to test the spirits by the plumbline of the Word.
I hope this answers your questions/concerns.
Lol. It doesn’t because I never had questions and my only concern is for those that feel they are the authority on what the Holy Spirit will or will not do…and the use of Mathew 7:21-23 is interesting as that then eludes to the fact that someone is judging the depth and validity of Todd’s relationship with Jesus Christ, something NOONE has the right to do, except the Father Himself. Do you then attempt to usurp this right from God and exalt yourself as one that knows the intimacy between God and His child? Hope not!
Also, were is the bad fruit? Stadiums filled with the lost, realizing the awesome power of God and giving their lives to Him? All while some sit and muse as to whether anothers relationship with God is valid as the lost ones around them die in squalor because of jealousy and pride that is sickening and dividing the precious Body of Christ. God-Boxers beware….He can NEVER be put in a box!!! Especially not one created by an impure, imperfect human mind clouded by a stuffy judgemental spirit! So like the Scribes, Pharisees, and Sadducees they are!! Are any of us deserving of the saving grace of Christ? NO! Yet somehow it is conveyed through the pompous writings of some that they are the elect and have full and complete understanding of an Unfathomable God as though an authoratative oracle of the Most Holy One! It is so sad, so shallow, and so shameful. If my Spirit bears witness to what God is doing THROUGH Todd Bentley, does that then make me a heretic?? Does that mean I don’ have the real Holy Spirit and you do? Please tell me, as I’m sure yet another fully correct judgement of spirituality and relationship and charachter will be posted here!
Stadiums filled with the lost? More like full of the church, and these are not stadiums, they are churche sanctuaries, and the gospel certainly ain’t being preached either.
No it makes you decieved or not a very good listener or discerner though between flesh and spirit.
Not necessarily, it just means you are not discerning by scripture or by the Holy Spirit in this instance. It does not mean you do not have a relationship with God and love Him very much and mean well…
The bad fruit by the way includes the fruit of FALSE TEACHING and counterfeit prophecy, and also ‘another Jesus’ spirits being accepted in place of the Spirit of truth. There is a lot of other bad fruit that will not manifest right away. This happened at both Brownsville and Toronto too…..and the fallout is still being felt years later.
AJ
So it is ’shallow and shameful’ to boldly proclaim the word of God is it? Especially when the word of God one proclaims is not just evident from personal revelation, divine insight and spiritual discerment and godly wisdom, as given by God as a spiritual gift to a frail human being, but from tried and tested scripture fronm the REAL APOSTLES like John and Paul?
And if you think this way about me -
then why follow Bentley and his kind, who are not only obviously far more prideful but much more elitist and set themselves up as superior and above rebuke or correction (when I do not), by delaring their OWN revelations which cannot be critiqued, which are not only untrue but scripturally errant by miles? You are being rather hypocritical, and using dual plumblines here! For if you judge me by this measure, then you surely judge Todd one hundred times or more over.
I think it is rather you do not like my conclusions than the fact I speak out. Well that is another matter entirely. Stop being a hypocrit AJ and using dual plumblines. Get back to the word of God and fous your eyes on God rather than men,
And btw, who here ‘judged’ Todd Bentley’s relationship with Jesus Christ? I did not. I spoke against some of his behaviour and his teaching and his prophecy and ministry but that is another thing entirely. For if someone ministers assisted by demons, and the anointing they pass on is counterfeit, wouldn’t you want to know this? I guess not, huh? As your spirit ‘witnesses to it’. Well what about the BIBLE, does that witness to it? Or do you care?
A.J.,
God put himself in a box — it’s the Holy Scriptures.
16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. [2 timothy 3:16-17]
Yes, God will ultimately judge everyone and the unsaved will not make into the kingdom. In looking at the Matthew 7-21-23 text, some who may well think they will make it to the kingdom will not judging by the context.
And, what about the scriptures warning of false prophets and testing everything? Do you just blindly accept everything because you feel as though it’s right? Do you discern truth from falsehood; and, if so, by what standard?
We DO have the right and obligation to discern truth from falsehood. Anyone who aligns oneself with a known false prophet (Bob Jones) must be looked upon as a false prophet.
LOL! All that is being said by this host is that they are the ONLY one discerning properly!! Yes, stadiums around the world FILLED with the lost! Do research, lol. Who are you to say who is deceived and who isn’t? Explain that? You must be the only one that interprets the Bible EXACTLY correct based upon uneducated transliteration! Quite a talent I must say! It is shameful to proclaim the Word of God out of a jealous, pompous, self-righteous heart!! And WHO are you to call me a hypocrite having never met me???? That is so weak and limpwristed and exactly the point!! You so sadly misunderstand the Bible, pointing fingers and declaring this one false and that one. It is you that are FALSE. You twist Scripture to lash out in despicable jealousy and judgment! People being delivered, healed, saved, and set on fire for Jesus…hmm.., yes, the BIBLE does bear witness to that!!! lol. The Holy Spirit will never contradict that which is in the Bible, therefore the Holy Spirit will not bear witness with that which is false. You in context consider anyone that agrees with Bentley to not be filled with the Holy Spirit then. It all comes back around, and ya just can’t beat it! LOL. I have never claimed to “follow” Bentley. I follow Jesus. That’s right, Jesus, the One that TRULEY knows a man’s heart. You don’t! And again, don’t call me a hypocrite because that is also you again judging my heart and walk without ever knowing me! lol. Here’s a shovel, start diggin’!!!
AJ
No, I did not say that, and specifically did not say that. I said they were not weighing up or discerning on these points. It is very easy for a true believer, filled with the real Holy Spirit, to be decieved if they do not test and weigh and keep close to God and scripture.
And you know I did not say that either. Many others think what I say, and say this too. I am not the only one, but even if I was, it does not make what I say untrue. I have another witnesses thank God - Holy scripture and the Holy Spirit.
What you need to do, AJ is stop a minute, pause and reflect on what I am actaully saying, rather than what you in your distates twist me to say, and then go back to the Bible and read about testing the spirits etc and see if I and Lee and others actually have a point.
And for the record, you are a hypocrit as you have dual standards, as you have already betrayed by your words - and yes I do know your heart on this point….even if you had not already made it clear on your post. If you stopped for a minute to properly think and reflect, and/or investigated what Bentley and other prophets linked to him really believe and practice, you’d see the double standard too. Also other aspects of your heart are betrayed on your posts - which are far from pleasant or spiritual - and it is time you got real instead of super spiritual or hyperspiritual.
Now on this particular posting, I wrote about Todd Bentley’s type of prophecy. Do you think that what took place here on this video is true prophecy? Do you think a true prophet fumbles and cold reads and backtracks like this? Some prophecy! Some prophet! Some discernment by you if your spirit witnesses to it!
You must be the only one that interprets the Bible EXACTLY correct based upon uneducated transliteration!… … You so sadly misunderstand the Bible, pointing fingers and declaring this one false and that one. It is you that are FALSE. You twist Scripture to lash out in despicable jealousy and judgment!
I challenge you to show by using scripture just where you think this blog is incorrect and twisting scripture.
Here’s a scripture for you:
12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 1 Cor 5:12
Yes, we are to judge those ‘inside the church.’ And, you stand as judge here while telling us not to judge. Isn’t that a tad hypocritical?
DO NOT call me a hypocrite. I do not have dual standards, and you know nothing about me, and you do not understand my heart, what I’m thinking, where I’m coming from. NOTHING! All this blog is, is a list of people you criticize and judge! Plain and simple. You didn’t get what you thought you deserved when you went to a Fresh Fire event. It is obvious by your articles that you enter these interactions with a critical, unopen spirit. I only base this on what is written as I do not know you. I’m sure you are a great person, but why so bitter? BTW, Lee or whoever you are, i wasn’t telling ‘us’ not to judge because i was never talking to you. You are quite the saunch defender of your friend, which is commendable. But I still am not in conversation with you. Thank you though!
It’s been fun kids, and I’m sure we’ll debate another time. OH, wait, I do have something to tell you LEE, James 4:11-12, Romans 14:1-13 
God Bless!!!!!
>>>I do not have dual standards
You do not see it, but I and Lee have already demonstrated how this is so.
And it is sarcastic and hypocritical to write things like ‘God Bless!!!!!’ to Lee, when you and I both know you do not mean it.
A.J.,
This is an open forum and anyone can choose (or choose not) to answer any post or comment. It’s all out here in the public domain.
Au contraire — you were talking to me. I responded first to your comment and then you responded to my response to you. So, yes you did choose to converse with me. You could have chosen to ignore me and I could have done the same. We didn’t.
The Romans text you refer to above is speaking about not becoming a stumbling block to a weak Christian. Do you think Todd Bentley is a weak Christian?
The James scripture speaks of:
1) not slandering (telling falsehoods)
2) the ‘law’ referred to here is the royal law - to ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’ Is it not loving to show others false prophets and ’snatch others from the fire and save them’ (Jude 23)?
3) (not) judging in a non-loving manner (royal law). However, we are to test the spirits and rebuke others. We are told in Matthew 7 to not judge hypocritically or self-righteously. If I tell you not to smoke, for example; and, I’m standing here smoking a cigarette, then that is obviously wrong.
3)
What an interesting exchange between you guys!.
I am just about to leave my church over this type of thing going on. The Word of God not preached….so-called signs, miracles and wonders not held up to the light of scripture; the proclamation that the fullness of God’s kingdom is here now because heaven is invading earth through events like the Todd Bentley deal in Florida.
Where I’ve been the end-times we’re living is being glossed over, with comments being made that if you believe the doctrine of the rapture and the soon return of Jesus (which causes me to feel an urgency about souls being soundly saved) you are just wanting to escape this world.
Any questioning of ‘how do we KNOW that gold dust, feeling a wind blow by us, or the sudden appearance of gemstones are of the true God’ is met with defensiveness. It’s truly refereshing to see you guys lay out the scriptures about testing things and stand up to this accusing mentality that if you check out the supernatural manifestations of anyone with the Word of the Living God, you are somehow touching God’s anointed.
Thank you. What I’ve read this afternoon encourages me greatly. I love my pastor and believe he is truly desiring to see something happen in this earth other than dry, dead religion, but his desire to see Jesus ‘move’ without keeping the congregation focused on the Wordof God, I believe, is opening the door for some big time deception.
One of our members has gone to Florida to Todd Bentley’s meetings and when he returns, our pastor wants there to be an impartation of that ‘anointing’ on us! This is why I’ve leaving. I love these people, but I just can’t stay in a place where the Word of God is being twisted or ignored.
Anthony:
before you go please warn everyone you can specifically what is wrong as many people have no idea it is wrong and will just go with the flow. People are rarely taught discernment, once you sow the seed and say test and weigh all things some will hear you and heed the warning - more will not, but at least some will hear.
Hey Brother praise God your article was perfect. that being said you really have to consider where the attackers of your article are coming from,….Ignorance of the unadulterated word of God,this is because they are lazy. These types of individuals tend to be Sunday morning cotton candy popcorn scripturalist. If they were in fact reading the word of God,.. not just the scriptures that make them feel spiritual,yes they would know the truth and the truth would set them free. But I love all of this demonic garbage that’s going on because it is the fulfillment of the word of the Lord Jesus. Stevie Wonder could see it. I don’t care what any profit says,wolves in sheeps clothing. God is the head of the Church, the church is not a building, but each and every believer that makes up the Body of Christ,.. the true Church, the Ekklesia, the called out ones. Many are called but few are chosen! READ YOUR BIBLES,FOLLOW GOD’S WORD not the word of some toothy smiley personalities who are leading the beguiled brethren devoid of discernment into the pit. READ IT, IT’S ALL THERE. NOW YOU ALL HAVE BEEN WARNED. Father God The Great I AM, And our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ The Holy Lamb of God, I pray your Lost people be found and returned to you,and set free of the demonic forces that have taken hold of their deluded and simple minds. as it is written so let it be done. amen and amen
I attended the Lakeland meetings last Thursday night. I went to test the spirits whether they be of the Lord Jesus Christ who came in the flesh or of another. Watchinig on television, is one thing. Being there was quite another. I literally began weeping during the service. I saw the crowd as sheep having no shepherd. They were seeking healing, which God desires to give. But they were so bent on getting the healing that they were not seeking God. I noticed that at least three times, we were directed to honor various PEOPLE, including the pastors of the Ignited Church, and Todd Bentley, but there was never really any glory directed to God. At one point I opened my Bible for guidance to a random spot (wanting to start looking in the gospel for the scripture on sheep having no shepherd) and the Lord had my Bible fall open to Mark 13. Verse 5 reads “Watch out that no one deceives you. Many will come in my name, claiming “I am he,” and will deceive many.” I couldn’t have asked the Lord to speak in any clearer way. But that was just one of many things that convinced me that this is an evil deception from the enemy.
There was nothing fake in the physical reactions of people that were touched by Todd. They were being physically affected. I have no doubt that many of their testimonies of “healing” (at least the disappearance of symptoms) were true. But these acts are being performed by demons. Many of the people who fell, clearly were being demonized. I saw a lady pulled to the side of the stage and left manifesting demons with no one to minister to her after she was touched by Bentley. Another girl fell and lay twitching and then motionless after she fell under his touch. She was quickly removed from the stage before she was physically able to stand, and when she was back down off the platform she still could not stand up. She was bent at the waste. The workers form Bentley’s crew didn’t help her. Someone from the audience came to assist her to her seat. There was not gentleness or love being shown these people. At one point, when Bentley accidently touched or directed a “bam” toward one of the “announcers” that was introducing people as the came on stage (a huge guy that must have weighed 300 lbs.), the man lifted up and off the floor and went backwards through the air. The maniacal laughter that rose up from around the sanctuary when someone manifested demons by their violent shaking after Todd’s touch was a sound of mocking. It was not of the Lord. There was indeed power being manifested. But it was not the power of Jehovah God. Bentley no doubt has encourntered an angel. But it is not an angel of the Lord of Hosts. Another thing that was noticabley absent was any mention or sign of repentence. When God’s presence fills a place, the first thing that happens is repentence (see, e.g., Isaiah). I left the meeting after children from a children’s home for abused kids were brought on stage. It broke my heart that children that had already been victimized by the enemy were being revictimized by the demons working out through Bentley and his crew. As we walked away from the event, I and the two others with me were led to pray warfare prayers against the demonic. We together in the car all three broke down weeping because we felt the heart of God for this deception on His people. Sadly, many of those people that were there will need deliverance ministry from the demonization they’ve suffered at the hands of these so called ministers of God. Before going to the meeting, I would have probably simply told people to be careful and test the spirits etc. Now I will tell anyone who asks to stay away. Run, don’t walk, away from this! I have not fully recovered from seeing that abomination. It feels as if I have witnessed some heinous crime like a murder or rape. It makes me very sad. What is most astounding is that God’s people cannot now discern a wolf who is appearing in a wolf’s clothing.
I’ve read that Todd Bentley was convicted of molesting a 7 yr old boy. Is this true and if it is where can I find an article about it to show my pastor before he ‘imparts’ this man’s so-called anointing to our church.
Thanks,
anthony
JM,
Thanks for your firsthand testimony. It’s so sad the widespread deception. I wept as I read what you wrote especially about the children.
People are hungry and these people are getting fed a bad meal with indigestion to last a long while.
Anthony - yes it is true, and the article is on this site, but to be fair, I do not think you should judge any believer for something he did before he came to Christ IF it is repented of. If you are going to warn your pastor about Bentley, the do it based on his unbiblical words and deeds done today, not the actions of yesterday pre his conversion.
Are you not aware of what is happening to people physically in Florida right now? And around the world because of God’s power and Todd Bently being faithful doing what God asks. I have not seen you put any scripture to your ripping apart of this man who is very obviously called by God. What are you afraid of? Christ was a healer and miracle maker. And he told the disciples that with the holy spirit we would do greater things than he had done in his name because he will be with the father and anything we ask for in his name will be done.
John 14:12 12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
I have not seen any scripture to back up your constant tearing up of your supposed FALSE PROPHETS. What are you afraid of? God is to be feared, but he is also love and he wants to heal us, and change us. Todd Bently and many others are walking in that faith. Peoples lives are being changed daily. Are you going to tell the guy who regained his sight last night that it was a demonic power that did that. Or the gentleman that had 2 perfect solid GOLD teeth (roots and all) planted in his mouth in an instance that he is full of it. His dentist is in shock and awe, he has never seen anything like it.
Are you a new creation in him. Do you love your neighbor and show that in your life. The way your articles read you seem like a very anger, bitter, unhappy person. But I do not know you personally and will not start writing web pages full of information on you and your ideas and that they are demonic. I pray God will bring a peace over you and an eye opening, heart opening revelation of what God has for you. You have a forum that could be used to glorify God, rather than ripping to pieces his faithful workers.
God Bless
What is wrong with you people? Bentley’s not preaching the true gospel. He’s seeking glory and followers for himself, not Christ. He is clearly a money-changer, a false prophet, a liar, and an antichrist!! This is not based on supposition or personality… it’s based on his own words and deeds don’t align with scripture… it’s based on the truth!
Paul said when he was a child, he acted like a child, but when he became a man, he put away childish things. Some of you need to put away your childish beliefs and desires of the flesh. Get back into the Word of the living God and pray for repentance and discernment. Following this man and this movement will lead you straight to hell!
its crazy to hear all of this blasphemous criticism of men of God…what are any of YOU doing to expand His kingdom, besides sit around with a stick up your butt finger-pointing and being modern day pharisees? none of you are TRUE followers of Christ. NONE!
THIS is exactly why I don’t go to church. All it is is squabbling, gossipping, bitching, jealous, hypocritical, judgemental, complaining, self-righteous, i’m right and your wrong, if its not what i like then its bad, your sins are worse then mine, i’m so holy and righteous…bullshit…your all a bunch of pathetic clowns…i know drug dealers that sit around and talk shit about other people just like you do. Give it up, your all fake and want to make yourselfs feel better about how shitty your lives are and if Christians are supposed to be examples of jesus you are examples of people that hide behind a book and a name to hide how ugly you are inside…your all liars, thieves, adulterers, lustful, idol worshippers, gossipers, slanderers, influenced by the boss of all that…satan….people like you will NEVER influence me or anyone else that your Christian cause you do the same things we do, you just throw bible verses around to sugarcoat your evilness…I’m still waiting to find a “christian” that doesnt do exactly what everyone here does…you don’t “serve” god..you serve yourselves just like everyone else…HYPOCRITES
quick question- so many people here are claiming that this and that is demonic (can you prove it? physically prove it?) and also, since Lucifer cannot create, how can gold dust, oil, and all that stuff appear from someone that cannot create/make things appear? I would like solid physical proof that people falling down under the power of God is demonic. if you cannot prove it, you probably shouldn’t talk about it. prove it, prove it, prove it.
Your are absolutely right about not judging about things that are repented of before. But I’m still concerned about this issue. Has Todd Bentley made it clear that he has repented of molesting that 7 year old and is accountable to other grounded brothers in the Lord now about not being alone with any young children or having any appearance of evil.
This is an issue that matters a great deal to me.
Bless you,
anthony
Actually, Todd Bentley was saved when he was 17 so you must be saying he molested a child as a teenager. Why make up stories, if your people of christ why try to turn us all against an incredible man of God. He prays in jesus’ name and people are healed, just you wait, you will have to stand before our father and answer to him for the disgusting things you have spoke against his servant.
By the way this was written by a 12 yr old.
I noticed that comments people have left in support of Todd have actually been disappearing, it seems you are the deceptive one. People dont listen, this site is working for satan.
How flaming dare you. This site is basically HATE preaching. my God is the God of love, i dont know who you think God is but just let me say,
widespread deception…. from this pathetic liar.
i dont want to put down anything against anyone but in your case, this site is scum.
I bless you! I bless you to know God deeper, fully, more intimately… I bless you to encounter the love of Jesus over and over and over again for the rest of your life…that your heart may be swept with peace, love, joy, goodness, kindness, patience, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. May you grab a hold of every spiritual blessing–this is promised to you. I bless you to recieve from the Lord, and to pour it out on to other people. I bless you with healing in the places you need it, and the ability to bring others healing through Jesus, too. I bless you to continue to grow in your relationship with the trinity. I bless you to relentlessly seek the Lord in all you do…may he constantly fill your cup to overflowing. I bless you to reach others for his name sake..not because they need God but because Jesus deserves for them to worship him. I bless you with wisdom and knowledge and understanding. I bless you with the deep, wide, long, and high love of God. I bless your writing–may it glorify the Lord completely, earnestly, honestly. I bless the words you speak over people–may they be life bring, fruit-bearing, and from God and his grace. I bless you with the protection of the Lord…I bless your family to come to know the Lord in a deeper way. I bless you to become more intimate with Jesus–that the desires of your heart will truly be given to you by Him. I bless you to see past the falseness, to be filled with compassion for these “false prophets” in such a way that you will feel God’s heart for them…that your heart will break for the things God’s heart breaks for, and that you will be able to pray for them. I bless you with humility and friendship with God. I bless you in the name of Jesus.
Not that this is in defense or excuse of anyone’s heresy, or even that I’m “just playing devil’s advocate,” but:
I think it’s important to keep in mind that we all have some wrong ideas about God. This is because God is transcendent, and we are not. We can only know what He reveals to us about Himself– through His Word, through His creation, through His Son, through wisdom and revelation given by the Holy Spirit (those “aha!” moments when the light goes on), etc.
Such revelation is only received in as much as one has a love of the truth (see Romans 1). It is possible to be genuine, but not correct (as you yourself have said). However, I believe that if such sincerity is rooted in a teachable spirit and a desire for Truth, then wrong ideas are exposed and corrected in time by the leading of the Holy Spirit in that believer’s life. I know I’m still on a journey of growing in the knowledge of God. This maturity is a process that continues our whole lives.
In the mean time, I have wrong ideas about God. You have wrong ideas about God. But the Lord is not intimidated or threatened by this. He is a very good Shepherd who knows how to lead us on the path of righteousness.
I’m not saying you should never voice when you feel someone is in serious error, but… Yeah, I’m not really sure how to say what I’m trying to say.
I’ve believed things that I thought sure were rooted in sound biblical doctrine… until I actually read the passages I was using to back myself up in context. Then I saw the Bible was actually saying quite the opposite of what I was believing.* Many times it’s not quite as extreme as that…
So, in conclusion… I’ll have to come back to you on this when I have more time to process exactly what I’m trying to say. Thoughts so far on anything I’ve said?
*I’m not in any way trying to imply anything about anything you express in this article or may personally believe. I realized that sentence sounded like a “hint, hint; nudge, nudge,” which is not what I intended at all.
Anthony - No its all lies
This website is disgusting. If your christians why lie
THOU SHALT NOT LIE
how would you know anyway.
Amen for this awesome blog!! May the Lord open the eyes of those who are decieved (as I once was)!!!
Thank you for Lee and endtimesporpheticwords. I’ve been in this place before several times; the place of anguish over such grand deception.
I’ve asked the Lord to help know how to deal with it. How do you alert people? How do you express warning? Everytime I try (forgive me for saying so, but I’m a gentle person, so I don’t harshly confront), people want to pray for me so that I’ll “get it!” Or, they respond defensively, rebuking me etc.
We had a “healing crusade” in our city about 12 years ago that had all the earmarks of Todd Bentley’s Fresh Fire meetings. It left a terrible trail of confusion among our precious believers. At the time, they were completely enamoured by it all, but afterward their faith was ravaged, and it has taken time to restore and rebuild.
Now, it’s happening again, and again I’m deeply saddened by it. I’m not very articulate when speaking face to face, and I find it difficult to accurately explain my objections. Wow…just as I wrote that last statement, it became quite clear to me that the enemy has been confounding my speech. I immediately rebuked him and asked the Holy Spirit to help me speak the truth boldly and clearly, but always with love.
I will have to leave my local congregation too, since the majority are now taken in by this “wind of doctrine,” and at present, will not be inclined to hear the message of the Word of God. However, I do appreciate the counsel to resist “leaving quietly”.
I have always wondered why God gives me this discernment, if it’s not for the common good. (1 Corinthians 12:7) Now I know it IS for the common good, and I will move forward with it in confidence, regardless of how it is received.
Thank you for this place to share. God Bless you!
In Christ…..Selah
Anthony: I only know the details from this one article that was posted with the information in. I have known several sex offenders who got ’saved’ (or said there were) - several of whom I would not let within even a few feet of any children as they were not repentent and for that reason not healed. One other I knew personally, however he was repentent and also accountable, although not yet fully healed, and it was only early days, so I was still very careful watching him like a hawk when any children were around. You need to be wise and careful for their sake if nothing else - but more than that the kids’.
Courtney:
Welcome to this site. I am not making up stories, I have not said ‘disgusting’ things (apart from the truth which can be gross but that’s not my fault, - isn’t it the person doing the gross things you should shoot rather than the one who points it out, the messenger - don’t shoot the messenger!) - and yes, if you read the article on this site Todd Bentley was in a sex abuse ring as a teenager and has publically admitted this. Don’t you know that kids can do some really horrible things to other kids? It is not just adults that sin and who are accountable to God for this.
Now that’s out of the way, ‘Courtney’ (whoever you are and whatever age you really are -as someone has been posting in another name too from your computer), why don’t you look at the actual facts that we have spoken about and the scriptures, and the reasons why we are actually worried about Todd and this false revival (which is notthing to do with the sex abuse in this case), which is the real point here of these articles.
Lots of people come in Jesus name but they ain’t true servants of God. Do you believe everything you are told and accept it at face value? Go deeper, Courtney. Just as there are counterfeit banknotes thee are counterfeit healers, prophets and revivalists.
Courtney Taylor aka Angela Whitmore
No comments ‘in support of Todd’ have been dissappearing despite your all only too quick accusation.
This site is moderated so comments take a while to appear live, including yours, whatever name you post in. And yes, despite the spirit they were written in, I still allowed your nasty comments about this site being scum to go live in BOTH of your names.
Tie:
Just because I speak out and warn about, and proclaim certain men and women to be false prophets (based on scriptural guidelines) who says I do not love them or have compassion for them?!!! Love and warning go together they are not contradictions. And what about feeling the heart of God for the misled or abused flock, eh?
LJ:
You are right nobody has perfect theology, and nobody has perfect practises. We are all still growing and learning. But that does not mean that error - any error, however small - should not be corrected when spotted and routed out of the church and the minister corrected.
In the case where a teacher is seriously in error on multiple points AND also FALSELY prophesies AND has some decietful and dodgy practises and teaches multiple anointings, there is even more reason to expose the false spirits at work in that person’s ministry. And when the minister in question is not just naive and sincerely deluded but is actually deliberately doing charlatanism, and merchandises the gospel, then even more shame on them and even more reason to steer clear of them and their ‘anointings’.
End Times:
I was definately not trying to say that you don’t have compassion or love for these people. I simply wanted to bless you with more. Of course love and warning go together–a warning without love always fails… And, of course we need to feel God’s heart for the misled or abused! With as much criticism as you recieve, I was simply wanting to bless you in this particular area of dealing with false prophets. Please understand my heart behind the blessing: it was not meant to be seen as cynicism, bitterness, judging, etc at all. Everyone recieves way too much of that from everyone else. Just wanted to bless you!
Tie:
I saw your heart was to bless BUT at the same time I wanted to make it abundantly clear - not just for you but for others reading - that love and warning are compatabile and not enemies of each other
Thanks
Regarding your reply:
I agree in addressing it, for sure. I think the point I was trying to address in my original comment was not that such people/beliefs/practices shouldn’t be addressed, but that they should be addressed in love and humility, always keeping in the back of your mind that you don’t have the whole picture either and you may not be 100% correct on [fill in the blank] either. I’m not saying there are not absolutes, I’m just saying (as I said before) that we only know in part.
Again, I’m not saying any of this to imply anything towards you. This is no passive/aggressive rebuke or disagreement. I’m saying this simply to bring it to the table, as it’s a good reminder for all involved in any discussion like this.
Regarding this article:
Could some of this just be an issue of semantics and poor choice of words on Bentley’s behalf? I just wonder what he means be “anointings.” Could he just mean spiritual gifts and different emphases of ministry? You know, 1 Cor. 12 sort of stuff. If that’s the case, he’s not quite as far gone. There are, after all, different “callings” and giftings. Not everyone’s a pastor, or a missionary, or have the gift of [fill in the blank]. If by “anointing” he means “commissioned by the Lord and empowered by the Holy Spirit for such-and-such ministry,” that would be very different than “anointing” as he means it now…
And what else would he mean? Something vague and ethereal? I would be interested to know how he would define these “anointings.” Does he just mean various gifts/roles as members of the body over which Christ is the head? And what are the 10 that he lists? If you could point me to some other articles or videos, that would be great.
Maybe I’m too hopeful, but I still think there’s a good chance he genuinely loves the Lord. His “manipulation” in ministry could be in part his great desire to see the Lord truly break in, so he subconsciously and/or intentionally tries to “help Him along”. And a lot of it could just be immaturity. In my own zeal, I’ve done/said/believed some pretty silly things and thought it by God and/or for God. He is so tender and patient with us.
Anyways, I just thought I through some more musings out there.
Not sure about all these people like Todd communicating with long dead apostles - yes the original 12, & other bible characters. The bible clearly prohibits communicating with anyone that is dead. We are to only ask things from God and Jesus. Not dead saints… IOW LOTS of red flags go up when it comes to stuff like this. No biblical precedence whatsoever - its that thing that makes you say “ummm…”.
What is also interesting is that during this florida event when Todd prayed for teens & adults they were falling all over the place (slain in the spirit - twitching, yelling, crawling, hysterics, etc), but when children were prayed for and in the exact same manner, the children about age 9 & below, NONE were slain in the spirit or had the same reactions as the “big people”. Ummm…
Lots of claims for money i.e. sowing seeds so they could reap a double portion of financial blessing, which seems to be a ‘word’ each & every year. Todd & many others claim the church MUST walk in this and receive their annoitings & mantels but it always requires $$$ (going to conf, buying tickets, tapes, CDs, DVDs, partnership/monthly memberships, etc), yet Jesus said “freely you received, now freely give”. IOW if it really was for everyone (a must have to walk in His fullness) in the body of Christ they would give it freely to everyone so as to have treasure in heaven; but apparently it doesnt work the way Jesus and the disciples did it in the bible or first century church. So if you dont have $$$ to purchase these “must have teachings & soakings”, your out of luck & God cant bless you = hogwash. Thats not my God.
This is nothing more than promoting partiality that James warns against. IOW they are showing partiality by dividing up the body of Christ based on how much $$$ one has & is willing to fork over, BUT never do we see this call or command by Jesus or His disciples.
Here is a bible passage that directly deals with this type of thing…
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Ezekiel 34
Prophecy against the Shepherds of Israel
Then the word of the LORD came to me saying, “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel Prophesy and say to those shepherds, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD, “Woe, shepherds of Israel who have been feeding themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flock?
“You eat the fat and clothe yourselves with the wool, you slaughter the fat sheep without feeding the flock. “Those who are sickly you have not strengthened, the diseased you have not healed, the broken you have not bound up, the scattered you have not brought back, nor have you sought for the lost; but with force and with severity you have dominated them. “They were scattered for lack of a shepherd, and they became food for every beast of the field and were scattered.
“My flock wandered through all the mountains and on every high hill; My flock was scattered over all the surface of the earth, and there was no one to search or seek for them.”‘”
Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the LORD: “As I live,” declares the Lord GOD, “surely because My flock has become a prey, My flock has even become food for all the beasts of the field for lack of a shepherd, and My shepherds did not search for My flock, but rather the shepherds fed themselves and did not feed My flock; therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the LORD:
‘Thus says the Lord GOD, “Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will demand My sheep from them and make them cease from feeding sheep So the shepherds will not feed themselves anymore, but I will deliver My flock from their mouth, so that they will not be food for them.”‘”
For thus says the Lord GOD, “Behold, I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out. “As a shepherd cares for his herd in the day when he is among his scattered sheep, so I will care for My sheep and will deliver them from all the places to which they were scattered on a cloudy and gloomy day. “I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries and bring them to their own land; and I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, by the streams, and in all the inhabited places of the land.
“I will feed them in a good pasture, and their grazing ground will be on the mountain heights of Israel There they will lie down on good grazing ground and feed in rich pasture on the mountains of Israel. “I will feed My flock and I will lead them to rest,” declares the Lord GOD. “I will seek the lost, bring back the scattered, bind up the broken and strengthen the sick; but the fat and the strong I will destroy I will feed them with judgment.
“As for you, My flock, thus says the Lord GOD, ‘Behold, I will judge between one sheep and another, between the rams and the male goats. ‘Is it too slight a thing for you that you should feed in the good pasture, that you must tread down with your feet the rest of your pastures? Or that you should drink of the clear waters, that you must foul the rest with your feet?
‘As for My flock, they must eat what you tread down with your feet and drink what you foul with your feet!’” Therefore, thus says the Lord GOD to them, “Behold, I, even I, will judge between the fat sheep and the lean sheep. “Because you push with side and with shoulder, and thrust at all the weak with your horns until you have scattered them abroad, therefore, I will deliver My flock, and they will no longer be a prey; and I will judge between one sheep and another. “Then I will set over them one shepherd, My servant David, and he will feed them; he will feed them himself and be their shepherd. “And I, the LORD, will be their God, and My servant David will be prince among them; I the LORD have spoken.
“I will make a covenant of peace with them and eliminate harmful beasts from the land so that they may live securely in the wilderness and sleep in the woods. “I will make them and the places around My hill a blessing And I will cause showers to come down in their season; they will be showers of blessing. “Also the tree of the field will yield its fruit and the earth will yield its increase, and they will be secure on their land Then they will know that I am the LORD, when I have broken the bars of their yoke and have delivered them from the hand of those who enslaved them.
“They will no longer be a prey to the nations, and the beasts of the earth will not devour them; but they will live securely, and no one will make them afraid. “I will establish for them a renowned planting place, and they will not again be victims of famine in the land, and they will not endure the insults of the nations anymore. “Then they will know that I, the LORD their God, am with them, and that they, the house of Israel, are My people,” declares the Lord GOD. “As for you, My sheep, the sheep of My pasture, you are men, and I am your God,” declares the Lord GOD.
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My advice is to “test everything”, seek God, listen & obey only Him.
Love,
steve
Comment by Fred London moved by admin -
Prophetic or Pathetic Ministry?
So many of our prophetic words, dreams and visions are delivered with impunity, sort of “hit and run” tactics, with no sense of responsibility to the word or the people to which it is directed.. This lack of personal accountability to these “words” gives rise to ministerial malpractice. This ever-growing phenomenon must be called to account and be addressed for the sake of discernment and accurately knowing the Mind of Christ. With the myriads of prophetic words, dreams and visions posted on various websites, it is high time to examine these so-called “prophetic words” which are quickly compiling a track record of being scripturally unsound, or a “one size fits all” form of soothsaying, rarely coming to pass. “God is not a “God of confusion,” offering scores of contradictory “words,” heavy on power and blessing, and lacking in “Christ and Him crucified.”
Employing the Old Testament criteria for judging true prophets and their words would result in greatly reducing all of this free-wheeling prophetic hype we are currently being inundated with. In truth, it would almost be comical if it weren’t so tragic. Not everyone who calls themselves a prophet, is a prophet. Based upon Scripture, it is therefore incumbent upon us to hold these messengers accountable and examine their words carefully, now more than ever. A line by line exhortation of Jeremiah 23 might work wonders in helping to eradicate the artificial and misappropriated prophetic words so commonplace in our day. It has become arguably a scourge of epidemic proportions, of the “prophetic word” made cheap. These things ought not to be.
Can the explanation for this ongoing “Mars Hill” prophetic circus, which continues to grow in popularity, be attributable to a true lack of the fear of God, an over active sense of self-importance or need to garner attention, and a lack of discernment by many who receive these words? Is it worth the risk of being found naked before God and men? You be the judge! Sooner or later, someone in the crowd will speak up and declare what should have been obvious to the multitude. “The king isn’t wearing any clothes!” Going along with the crowd in order to gain tacit approval or knuckling under to peer pressure simply will not fly. There is no escaping personal responsibility as it always comes down to, “Who do YOU say that I am?”
Here is an analogy. Terrorists are cowards at heart, bomb throwers, who use hit and run tactics, who avoid facing their targets directly, do not discriminate between combatants and innocents, and don’t consider themselves accountable for their actions. This is what much of the so-called “prophetic ministry” has become, in word and practice. But, it is even more than that. It is a character issue. It is an integrity issue. It is a heart issue. It is time to come to grips with this matter. It is time to clean house. It is time to repent. It is time to treat this ministry as holy before the Lord. Are we jealous enough to desire to see the reality and purity of the Lord’s testimony? It would serve us well to be restored to a healthy fear lest we “speak that which the Lord has not spoken.” What would be the result? It is quite likely that today’s glut of “prophetic words” would be significantly reduced and its scarcity would once again cause it be restored to its rightful preciousness. What should it be worth to us? No less than everything!
Fred London,
It’s a shame real Christian leaders, especially those in the pulpit will not stand up and denounce the heresy and madness. I just don’t understand it. The Apostle Paul had no trouble naming names no matter the consequences. It seems it’s all left to internet bloggers like Miriam here.
Sadly, a lot of the “leaders” are leading the flock astray…
I came here looking for objective opinions about the Lakeland thing happening. a Few weeks ago I attended a conference in Syracuse, and I was amazed at how many brothers and sisters seem to abandon discernment during meeting. I hear people praising the lake land event and packing up to go to it but they don’t seem to know anything about it or the people doing it.
I want so bad to see real prophecy, healings, and teachings but at every turn, I see falseness. I am sick an tired of prayer for healings that never get answered. I’m tiered of “prophets”, “healers”, and “apostles” seeing a person in a wheel chair or with a deformity and then force a prayer of healing on them just because of what eyes see. I’ve seen so many people hurt by this that it sickens me.
We are all people with all the same ability to laugh and cry, tell truth and lie, Hurt and heal, sin and worship, and to live (abundantly) and die. but to these “ministers” some people are only there affliction.
I believe that it is time that we stand against the liars and fakes, but not like a bunch of nut jobs. So many people go off on brothers and sisters in Christ for silly things like Easter bunnies, Christmas trees, and halloween that they give taking a Godly stand a bad name. When we stand, we must not stand against the People! We must stand against spiritual wickedness.
We all live in the sin (with sufficient grace) we are un-convicted of, at least as long as we feel no conviction. So, when some one is in an Easter egg hunt, you don’t tear them down or judge them. Instead meet the un-convicted at there level. Understand that it is a fun to be in an Easter egg hunt, but teach about the Resurrection! Do you even have to say that Easter egg hunts are evil? Isn’t it enough to ask if it is used as a substitute for the remembrance Christ? Let the Holy Spirit convict whom He will. Conviction is our job.
A friend of mine, fearing that I was sinning and speeding towards hell, once told me that he was going to be a road block on the road to hell. I think that illustrates my point well. If a person is speeding, heading the wrong way on a road and you block the path and cause them to smash into you, it’s over. You are in a pile of burning debris. However, if you ask to ride awhile with them, can’t you at the least prompt them after some time to change course even a little. A few degrees here and a few there will eventually add up to 180.
Bringing the presence of God into a relation ship will shine a light on sin. In time, the person in sin will be convicted. Then they will chose to repent or reject the one with the light.
So is Todd Bentley Evil or Godly? Isn’t that is the wrong question?
“What is most astounding is that God’s people cannot now discern a wolf who is appearing in a wolf’s clothing.”
It could not have been said any more clearly then that. Exactly.
I am concerned when I see that the criteria to find out whether or not a preacher is from God is by the amount of mirracles seen in his minisrty rather than the accuracy of his teachings. It’s like people check their brains off at the door because they might receive the “power” or the “anointing”.
I am sad to see how far off the Christian Church has gone. As if to say that a revival means that people will be falling left and right and have a buzz to make them feel good. What happened to learning from the Word of God book by book and chapter by chapter and living our lives by it? Now that would be a revival! That other new age stuff, that’s not the God of the Bible. If Jesus saw someone acting the way those people are in those videos, He would have command the spirit to come out from them! 2Timothy 1:7 “For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a SOUND MIND.”
Galatians 5:22-23 “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, SELF-CONTROL. Against such there is no law.”
William Braham’s angel helping Todd? Having communion with Paul and Adam? ARE WE THAT BLIND TO HERESY? Just because people are being healed folks, doesn’t mean it’s from God! Wake up people, repent, return to the Bible and forget that nonsence.
Are we seeing the power of God at work in the Florida ‘revival’ or the power of TV? How is is that Todd Bentley manages to get the microphone to his mouth for every guffaw and Spirit-induced shout? Where is the love in this so-call ministry? Where is the peace and humility? Where is the sound Biblical theology?
How can a fellow Christian listen to TB telling people to touch their TV screens or computers for impartation and not be alarmed? Todd Bentley told satan “listen to ME!”, is that not offensive to Father God? Why is it that the only gift of God being celebrated here is faith? I believe God has blessed my husband and I with discernment… we share absolute distaste and sadness for this vile deception and the damage it is wreaking on the body of Christ.
All those out there convinced that Todd Bentley is being used by God must test what they’re seeing and hearing against Scripture. They must also do some research about the theology underpinning this ‘ministry’. They should also read Matthew 24’s warning about false prophets and remember that God issues these warnings to protect His children. Church leaders must take their role as shepherds seriously and protect their flocks from this dangerous deception.
Associates of Todd Bentley and the Fresh Fires Ministry are here in the UK. A healing conference is currrently touring the UK, hosted by various charismatic churches. I was invited. Praise God for the discernment He gave me. I hadn’t at that stage even heard of the Florida ‘outpouring’. My spirit as troubled and I didn’t know why, I only knew I must not go. After a little detective work I discovered the two are connected.
I believe Todd Bentley started out on God’s path but became influenced by satan. Listen to or read TB’s testimonies about angels. Listen to his ex-colleagues who warned him of impending dangers. Todd himself isn’t evil but the spirits who have attached themselves to him are.
Beware false prophets church!
Let’s pray for true revival, a true outpouring of God’s glory which will magnify Him and bring glory to Him. And Him alone.
I have a couple of question for the writer of this blog.
1. It is obvious that you have labelled Todd Bentley as a false prophet/teacher etc. Would you then say that he has evil intentions consistently with this revival? Or he is simply immature in God?
When Jesus weighed the churches in Revelations He said that they do some things well and rebuked other things yet in my mind they were all still His no matter how bad the “bad” things were.
2. If you are saying Todd Bentley is a false prophet thus evil, then what is his motivation for these meetings?
I am a minister and I know how difficult it is to consistently minister let alone to minister for 35 plus days.
-It has been established that Bentley has refused any money from the offerings taken in the meetings and is being covered by the salary he receives from his own ministry Freshfire (Canada). So it can’t be money.
-If it is fame he is after, how could this happen? If God is not moving are you saying the enemy has enough power to draw so many people from the world to this event? The enemy is a counterfeiter and always mimics something truthful that God is doing. So what is the genuine move that is being counterfeited?
Just curious….
I just logged on to this site for the first time. I will not comprimise the word of God. Let God be true but every man a liar. I know i am an imperfect vessel, and i do not claim to be something i am not. I am child created by the most high god, I only believe in his one true word, Jesus Christ. I seek after him daily, my desire is not to lead anyone, except into his presence. We will all stand before God and be judge. I want to comment on a statement made on April 24. Ref: Falling out under the spirit, without a catcher. Let me say I am a sinner saved by the grace of Jesus Christ. Blessed are those who are presercuted for his name sake. I can honestly tell you that one night (in a different unrelated revival) God used a preacher to call me out. He laid his hand on me, I never saw him before. As he laid his hand on me the power of God overtook me. I had no control over anything, but the desire and hunger for God. When God overtook me, the power of God shot through my body, like a mighty rushing wind. I had no idea, of what was going to happen when that preacher touched me and spoke to me. But I had Faith in Jesus Christ, the living God. God is alive, His Spirit is real, The power of God is greater than ever before, so do not doubt, I know God can touch anyone willing, I did not know someone was standing behind me, because I did not know what was going to happen. Please seek God, know that HE loves you. Stop worrying about other people, seek his face, while he may be found, He loves you. I pray for you to hunger and thrist for Him, that his anointing will over take you and that you will have an even greater ministry than this, Just as Paul was on the road to Damascus, I pray you will have that same encounter, God is AWESOME, please seek him, set aside all that is decieving you, and seek Him, just as David, a man after God’s own heart did. In Love may the peace of God that surpasses all understanding surround you. Love you brother God Bless, In Jesus Name.
Dave -
You say ‘it can’t be money’, but then you say this based on what you are told (by them), not by what you actually know for a fact.
A false prophet is not necessarily evil in the sense you mean it - they can be very sincere but very wrong - but in Todd Bentley’s case he is not that as he is not sincere, or immature even - he is a liar and mocker of God and men and a charlatan on many points and hypes things up. His intentions are not good and godly. He is linked to an antichrist movement whose intentions are anything but godly and this ‘revival’ comes from the pit - and yes, some leaders do know exactly what it is they do (not all of them though).
How could a sincere minister let Pal Cain lie in the way he did the other night unrebuked or corrected - that is just one example of many obvious lies?
Regardless the point is, not is he sincere, (but how can anyone be sincere to talk or minister as he does - did you see his mocking blah blah blah video? http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/05/06/a-video-for-all-you-todd-bentley-healing-revival-fans/ ) but does he preach a true message and is it really the power of God doing what is claimed and not flesh or worse, demons? The answer of course is no, it is not God and the teachings lead astray and are false and anti bible and anti christ. True signs do not, and cannot, testify to false words, false prophets and false christs.
Ok if you say that todd takes all the glory for himself, then howcome at last nights services for over 2 hours the praise and worship went on saying all glory for you, praise your name, or bless you lord. “obviously” hes taking all the glory for himself by saying these things. Cmon people! Wake up, Jesus wants to have a encounter with you!