End Times Prophetic, Prophecy, Visions, Dreams, Revelation, Christian Blog

I wrote before on the Roman Catholicism embracing some of the new breed of prophets like John Crowder here: http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/05/05/john-crowder-and-the-new-mystics-sons-of-thunder/ John Crowder is associated with, among others, Joshua Mills of gold dust fame, Lucy Rael, a stigmatic, and John Sandford of Elijah House and one of the C Peter Wagner’s new apostles.

John Sandford, carrying on in the tradition of Agnes Sanford (of inner healing, weird occultic/ new age practices fame - who wrote the only ‘Christian’ book I ever returned   to a Christian bookstore because it was so flaky - but who was influential on John Wimber of the Vineyard and others who should have known much better) and is no relation to John Sandford but considered his “first mentor and friend in the ministry” says in the Elijah House Workbook    -

“As an individual with my own hurts, I go into the Garden (Gethsemane) as often as I need to. There I identify with the pain in the other, with my part in that pain, my part in tempting someone to wound me. I experience the other’s pain, and God’s pain, and am devastated - because their pain becomes my own. Feeling such anguish, I can forgive, or deeply repent, either for myself or on behalf of the other.”

This is unscriptural for several reasons. The main reasons being that a Christian - a healing minister or otherwise - was never called to bear another’s burdens or pains in this sense - Christ did it all for us, once and for all and the cross, he bore our griefs - Isaiah 53, took our sin, rent the veil, and He is now the high priest seated on high, the only mediator between man and God. He was tempted in every way yet is without sin, yet is sympathetic to our needs and feelings and pains because of his humanity.

While there is normal human empathy and understanding that naturally flows between a counseller and counsellee, to attempt to do as Sandford suggests is not only an occultic technique, but an antichrist one, as it denies what Christ has already achieved on the cross, once and for all.

It is a Roman Catholic idea that says a human should during a mystical experience take upon themselves the pain of another or of the world - just like many bleeding stigmatatics feel called to bear some of the sin and suffering of the world when they bleed - yet Christ has already borne the sin of the world - and all its griefs - so stigmatism is as false and antichrist as the Catholic mass which attempts to crucify and recrucify Christ perpetually and continually denies the triumphant cry of ‘It is finished!’

One also cannot repent on behalf of others, or forgive others on another’s behalf either - it is not our place or our ability and is more like a Mormon idea - and if we could do this of course, there would be no need for evangelism or the gospel, as we could as a church just all get together and repent for the world. The world would then be such a loving and sweet place, as no more sin, but quite how people would be changed is beyond me if someone else repents for them! Perhaps it is taking the human volition out of it and letting God do it all in a supernatural mystical exchange. Well, lack of personal responsibility never was the gospel.

Real repentence is not just a mental thing anyway asking for, and recieving forgiveness, it is a change of mind and of behaviour. Nobody can therefore do it on behalf of anybody else by its very nature.

Agnes Sanford wrote in The Healing Touch of God -

“I have found only one way of praying for another with real power while accomplishing an act of repentance. This is the ancient method of reparation wherein one makes available the sacrificial love of Christ for another by assuming his sins and doing penance for them”.

She wrote in Healing   of someone she was counselling:

“We tried to bring them to her mind (her repressed memories causing her grief), and had failed. There were buried so deep that she was completely unaware of their existence. So I thought, ’I will repent of them in her name’ I will say to Jesus Christ, ‘Let the grown woman free, for I will take the responsibility for her sins of fear and hate. Since she cannot see them herself to repent of them herself, I will repent of them in her name and so open the door for the forgiveness of Jesus Christ’ ”

First of all, apart from the new age rubbish stuff here, one does not need to do penance for any sins, ours or others - that is an antichrist Catholic idea denying what was achieved by Jesus two thousand years ago on the cross. Second, as discussed before, we cannot repent for anybody else (otherwise Christ would have been sent to repent for the world, not to die an ugly painful horrible death for it), and third, did Christ not assume our sins already - so why would the minister need to assume anyone’s sin? This is more Catholic antichrist claptrap.

The Elijah House program has, surprise surprise, been embraced by many Catholics.

Agnes Sanford was profoundly affected by a confession that she made to a Catholic priest. It became the foundation stone for her formulation of her inner Healing and healing of memories where the inner child is forgiven and comforted by occultic and antichrist techniques. She introduced Catholic inner healer, Francis McNutt (also popular with John Wimber and charismatics) to  her techniques and prophesied that Francis McNutt, a Dominican priest, would take supernatural healing (and with it charismatic catholicism) to the Catholic Church worldwide - so there are very strong ties between mysticism, the new apostles and apostasy and interfaith ecumencism.

There are even stranger and more occultic ideas in the inner healing camp - including going back in time to the point you were hurt at to be healed - and, of course, lots and lots of visualisation.

William D Fawcett says:

 ”John Sandford recounts a time when his mentor Agnes Sanford was extremely depressed. She had been prayed for, but that did not seem to have an effect. Since nothing else worked, he suggested that she go outside and roll in the grass. He suggested that nature was able to ‘absorb’ all the bad energy. This is a Hindu concept known as “prana”.

Sadly these ideas has not only infected the inner healing and deliverence movement, it has also infected the spiritual warfare camp. As of course just some of the connections (more I am sure are in this chain) between the camps are only too obvious following this simple chain back and forth from Rome to embrace a one world mystical religion that exalts mysticism and signs over truth.

And from occultic inner healing  techniques, occultic spiritual warfare techniques morph so now, not only should we according to them repent on the behalf of a hurting and blinded and weak individual, but we repent on behalf of a city or nation to cleanse it of demons (someone wrote on a blog concerning Todd Bentley and this third wave revival that there were no more demons over their city!) I have already written on this blog of some of the heresies concerning spiritual warfare, territorial spirits, and even some aspects of deliverence - but the links with this and Catholicism is yet one more indication of the true antichrist nature of this teaching and this movement and where it comes from - from the mother of all harlots, Rome, who else?

Another indication it comes from Rome is its ecumenicism and embracement of Rome and the ‘Christian church’ being told being told to ask forgiveness of the Muslims for the crusades. Err… but it was the Catholics  that did this to the Muslims, not the Christians who did it! The Christians were also  being killed by the Roman Church but I do no see much talk of this, or of Rome acknowledging or apologising for the millions of protestant deaths they caused over many, many centuries! Surely Rome is the harlot stained with the martyr’s blood. Church, stop apologising for something Christians never actually did and also stop testifying that Roman Catholic church is a Christian church. It is not and never has been. It is the counterfeit harlot, not the bride. But that’s not what C Peter Wagner et al would like you to think as they want you to join in with it. All roads lead to Rome….. well these doctrines and these apostles certainly do!