Lou Engle calls for civil war in church, more militancy as Joel’s Army rises
On March 8th 2008, at Mike Bickle of IHOP’s ‘Passion For Jesus Conference’, as broadcast on GOD TV, I watched Lou Engle of ‘The Call’ fame speak. As he spoke, Lou Engle constantly rocked back and forth, as apparently he almost always does now when preaching, under what he would claim to be the anointing of the Holy Spirit. His spiritual manifestations are supposed to be a sign that he speaks under the unction of the Holy Spirit and when the jerks, grunts, twiches and miscellaneous experiences and feelings get stronger, they supposedly bear witness to him and the audience that what he says is true and prophetic and the ‘glory’ and ‘anointing’ of the Lord is there testifying to it. Thus manifestations really do lead many in the church of today.
However, it was clearly not the Holy Spirit that moved Engle and who he prophesied by - because of what Engle said - which was unbiblical heresy, and certainly not spoken under the power and unction of the Holy Spirit, however much he manifested, as the Holy Spirit can only testify to truth.
I was quite surprised with how blatant these Kansas City Prophets and their associated mouthpieces are now getting. For several years they have tried to hide what they truly believe by double speak or outright lies - especially Mike Bickle- and now, at this conference, it seemed it was time to come right out with it and declare what they really think. Or perhaps they forgot they were live on TV, I don’t know. Either which way, nobody murmured at the conference - even at the horrendous bits - and GOD TV kept broadcasting it.
In the session I watched, Lou Engle spoke on the end times and the end times generation. Fair enough you may say, because it is the end times. Right, I agree on this point, I do think these really are the Last Days and many alive now are part of the end times generation. But from here Lou Engle and I and every other Bible-loving Christian must part company, as Engle parts company with scripture and starts preaching and prophesying Latter Day Rain heresies - which of course the Kansas City Prophets are fully steeped in.
For all those that don’t yet know it, Todd Bentley is inextricably part of this movement with personal mentoring by prophet Bob Jones, currently the most exalted of the Kansas City Prophets - and wasn’t even K C prophet Paul Cain wheeled out the other night at a Lakeland rally to add his seal of approval? Paul Cain declared Todd Bentley to be Elijah (not another Elijah - I thought William Branham and Bob Jones and even Paul Cain were supposed to be Elijah? ‘I’m Spartacus, no, I’m Spartacus, no, I’m Spartacus! ), and Cain said that Todd Bentley’s revival was the start of the fulfilment of his own long-touted Joel’s Army prophecies of stadiums filled etc (if only that were all that there was to these prophecies though! - more on that later). Todd Bentley’s healing ‘revival’ in Florida is a manufactured Latter Rain revival which is more about extolling and elevating the apostolic-prophetic movement under the headship of their ‘pope’ C Peter Wagner, and its second in command Chuck Pierce, than is it about anything else - and extending their dominion - whether it is done in Jesus’ name or not.
The Latter Rain doctrines and the Bible’s differ on many key points. People can google the finer details on Latter Rain, I do not want to unnecessarily repeat other articles, but as some people, I know, will not research, or do not have the time to research (although I suggest they find the time as this is critical), very briefly, the main points are these - (there is another brief overview here http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/05/03/a-new-breed/)
The church has alway traditionally believed in the literal return of Jesus Christ, coming in the clouds where every eye will see Him, after the world has been in great travail with many earthquakes and natural disasters and famine (which are but the birthpangs for the end, says Jesus), and after the great tribulation (persecution) period after the antichrist has been revealed and persecutes and kills the saints, and after many false christs and workers of signs and wonders have been revealed, and worldwide apostasy and sin has spread to epidemic proportions and there is little love on the earth. The Bible teaches that at the end, Christ returns and the church gets gathered and caught up to Him in the air in ‘the rapture’. Nobody can miss Christ’s return as it will be that obvious - as lightning flashes from the east - promises Jesus, unmistakeable he emphasis. Do not be deceived otherwise, he emphasises.
However, extreme Latter Rain heretics (and there are various spins on it) believe and falsely prophecy that Jesus Christ appears within the body of believers - that is within them. And so they literally become Jesus, a corporate Christ, the Manchild. Rather than the body being in Him, the body become Him - the Manifested Sons of God doctrine - which of course is extremely blasphemous. This is more than becoming like Jesus in His character or works. This is more than having His Holy Spirit dwelling within them. It is them, fallen human beings, literally becoming divine and perfect and gods. The ‘glory’ they speak of coming to the Bride is this - the perfection of believers who become literally as gods. All under the authority of the new apostles of course, who somehow are more godlike than the other god-men and must be submitted to without question.
“There is a ministry … the ministry of perfection - the Melchizedek Priesthood . . . your children will be moving into the ministries of Perfection . . . coming into that Divine Nature of Jesus Christ . . . they themselves will be that generation that’s raised up to put death itself underneath their feet . . . because the Lord Jesus is worthy to be lifted up by a church that has reached the full maturity of the GOD-MAN!” (Bob Jones)
“The glory is shared, so the CLOUD which represents that glory IS SHARED. Each elect son becomes a manifestation of the glory - of the CLOUD - of the shekinah! Each son becomes the expression and revelation of the Person of Deity. There is still only one Person of God, but He shall eternally indwell a many-membered body of like ones unto Himself, the extension and projection of His own Being. — He says, “I will dwell IN THEM, and walk IN THEM… and ye shall be My sons and daughters..” (II Cor. 6:16-18). What, then, are those clouds with which, and in which, the Christ comes again? Why, bless your heart, WE ARE!” (Preston Eby)
“His Son was a ALPHA SON, your children are the OMEGA sons and daughters.” (Bob Jones) -
How blasphemous, Christ is the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end!
“In the manifestation of the Sons of God…. the overcomers will become perfected and step into immortality in order to establish the Kingdom of God on earth.” (George Warnock)
These God-men, they prophesy will have extraordinary powers. You hear all the new prophets talking about it and referring to it, though you many not have twigged this is what they meant, what it refers to or where it comes from - eg the walking through walls and levitating. They will be the Joel’s Army Paul Cain prophesies. The apostles, of course, are way at the top of the pecking order - and will demand unquestioning obedience as generals of the army as they thump their iron rod across the globe.
“Not only will they not have diseases, they will also not die. They will have the kind of imperishable bodies that are talked about in the 15th chapter of Corinthians … this army is invincible. If you have intimacy with God, they can’t kill you.” (Paul Cain)
There is nothing in the Bible that promises believers immortaility this side of death. Death will be put under Christ’s feet but right at the very end of the ages, when there will be a new heaven and a new earth too. The only ones who will not see death are those still alive at the time of the rapture, who will somehow be transformed ‘in the twinking of an eye’ and become clothed with the imperishable. Todd Bentley has apparently mentioned recently at Lakeland there is no need for believers to age and die this side of death. There is is nothing in the Bible that promises believers immortality and nothing that promises invincibility either, however much faith the believer may have, however intimate they are with God. It is nonsense that ‘If you have intimacy with God, they can’t kill you’ for the prophet Daniel, the apostle John and Paul, and Jesus, says repeatedly that the saints will be killed for their faith, especially during the Great Tribulation. The saints did not love their lives more than they loved God and sacrificed them at the altar. (Another false teaching (spread by ‘prophet’ Dimitri Duduman) is that if you are holy enough you’ll likewise avoid persecution.) Indeed, the Bible says that the antichrist will be given power to make war against the saints and to overcome them … and the great dragon, Satan, will be unleashed and allowed to in a new terrible and savage way to make war on the true church, and to win (from an earthly perspective). Far from the true remnant church being invincible triumphant overcomers in the Last Days, many will be beheaded, put to the sword, or otherwise be killed. They do overcome spiritually by their word and their testimony - but they are still mortal martyrs that still die a physical death. The only ones that will be invincible and untouchable in the Last Days will be the antichrist’s forces - not God’s. Paul Cain yet again betray the true spiritual nature and source of his movement by speaking as he has.
The Latter Rain new apostolic perfect invincible church, they say, shall have dominion over the earth and rule the nations with a rod of iron through the new apostles - hence the dominionists like C Peter Wagner. The new apostles do not just want to rule the church, they want to rule the world. And they have already set many things in place in the world of finance, media and government to this end - and set things up so they have information on many denomination’s church members by their ‘harmless’ collection of data for statistical purposes. So they know where the church members live to come and get you if you do not submit - to them and not God, that is.
“As the rod of His strength goes out of Zion, He’ll change legislation. He’ll chase the devil off the face of God’s earth, and God’s people together, doing the will of God, will bring about God’s purposes and God’s reign. “ (Ern Baxter)
The new end time apostles rule the Church through independent churches, unaffiliated with the ‘corrupt denominations’ as per William Branham’s teaching that all denominations are corrupt. The denominational churches they declare will eventually all disband to join in with this new church/new movement, under the new apostle’s leadership. Ever wondered where the ecumenical movement is going? The antichrist is Caesar, the leader of the revived ’Rome’. This new apostolic church, of course, with the false prophet mouthpiece and its signs and wonders is joined at the hip with Rome (beast one and beast two) - (ever wondered why so many of the new prophets are in the Roman Catholic illuminati Knights of Malta?), becomes the one world religion as so many have been apparently converted to the Latter Rain ’Christ’ and the new apostle’s religion in the revival - most won by signs and wonders they do not test done under the power of the antichrist, the others won over or threatened by persuasive force. It is essential to them for the church to be unified as one, under their apostles, or they think their corporate Christ cannot be fully incarnated (manifested) in the Church and give his power to conquer the whole world. So there will be more than pressure applied on those individuals and churches who will not join in with the apostles - but more on that later.
They claim there will be a worldwide revival with amazing healings, signs and wonders and miracles by elite overcomers - winning an endtime harvest of billions of souls, where the majority of the world, they say will be won to Christ and the kingdom would be established or ready to be received by Christ. It does not seem to matter whether converts or won or forced.
“It will be said of the apostles soon to be anointed that they have turned an upside down world right side up. Nations will tremble at the mention of their name.” (Rick Joyner, said in 1988, not that long before the new apostles under C Peter Wagner were ‘anointed’)
The army - Joel’s Army - won’t just love people into the kingdom - they will be militant, thinking themselves the enforcers of God’s will on earth, ruling with their rod of iron. Spiritual warfare becomes literal, the church having become accustomed and softened to the militaristic and dominionist talk through spiritual warfare and worship songs. They will say that as all those that oppose them are opposing God (as they as perfect god-men are God), and are permanently lost because of then, then killing them is no big deal anyway, or perhaps it will be viewed as God executing his ‘final’ judgment on unbelievers, as they are God remember. I am not making this up - this comes from their own writings.
“They won’t be able to kill this army.” (Jack Deere)
“Those in this army will have the kind of anointing … this kind of power … anyone who wants to harm them must die.” (John Wimber) - yeah, I was shocked when I read old pussy-cat/teddy bear Wimber said this.
As speaking against the new apostles is seen as harming - ‘touch not my anointed, nor do my prophets any harm’ as so frequently misquoted to keep dissenters quiet and in their place - all that oppose this Antichrist force even by speaking out ’must die’ by divine intervention - that is their intervention. The opposers, the remnant church will be killed. Nice! Still want to follow this wonderful revival of Bentley’s folks?
Joel’s army in scripture far from being the Lord’s endtime army, are a devastating dark army that destroys and devours God’s people. It comes from the King of the North - that is Babylon - that is Rome. So Paul Cain yet again actually testifies with scripture what their schemes are - antichrist - for they testify that is what they are, this army. Even if we did not know it already by their blasphemies, heresies and ecumnicism, we know it here. (Elsewhere it is prophesied that Joel’s army has feet of mixed iron and clay - again this is Daniel’s vision of the antichrist ‘empire’ the persecutor comes from (Rome and the mixed nations, so yet again they testify against themselves!) And of course scripture does not predict an end time revival like this, it predicts an end time apostasy, a great falling away and a great persecution of the Saints. But the Latter Rain doesn’t mention the antichrist in their theology, it can’t - because they are the antichrist (if they get their way)!
Paul Cain predicted of the stadiums being filled: “What if 120,000 get together and then the fire comes from heaven and the glory of God…” This is what the false prophet does in Revelation 13: 13,14 And he [the false prophet] doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men: And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had the power to do in the sight of the beast…
While I acknowledge there are many that are deeply sincere, I know that many of the powers that be in the new apostolic-prophetic movement are not that ignorant of scripture, and well know the things that Cain and Jones and others testify too. They know what they are doing, and they know whom they serve. But it has always been the case that an effective way to undermine an organisation is by sending in plants to divert, subvert and to corrupt and to convert from within. Counter-operations if you like. M16, the CIA and the KGB do it. The communists did it the church, as did the Jesuits and other Romanists, as do even Satanists. And Satan sends in his false apostles. Why church are you so shocked? Don’t you realise you are in a war?
For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. But I do not think I am in the least inferior to those “super-apostles.” (2 Corinthians 11:4-5)
‘For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. (2 Corinthians 11:13-15)
I am reminded here of the visions I have had. Last July I saw affliction coming onto the church (and a great falling away) - (http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2007/08/04/the-glassblower-a-vision-for-the-end-times-church/) -
I then saw a large army rushing forward, dressed in black armour, their helmets were affiliated to evil, they were rushing en-masse, pressing down and swooping down - God called it an ‘army from the North’* rushing down in a semi-circular formation - like a hurricane formation - and then it came too from the East so it was like a North East wave, momentus in its force, and it looked like it was coming down upon the map of the USA (the ’seat’ of 21st century lukewarm Christianity?) over from the North and then the East. ‘The army will be like bees,’ said God, ‘with a sting in their tail’. Just like God allowed pharoah and other ungodly kings to bring judgment upon Israel - in order that they may repent and come back to Him - so He would use ungodly forces to bring affliction upon the modern day church if they did not repent and become hot.
This is the Joel’s Army of scripture - but it seems, if Latter Rain get their way, this dark enemy massing from Babylon is actually the church warring against the church - the harlot church against the true church.
See also this about the corrupt church’s plotting for power, and their then being empowered by the dragon with real spiritual power (albeit dark) as he comes to unleash his anger upon the world. Note also the connection to Rome - http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2007/08/07/prophetic-vision-of-end-times-harvest-antichrist-vatican-church-falling-away/
Behind closed doors they go and kings and bishops conspire against me (says God). I see a vision of them playing like military generals on a war map, pushing the pieces around with those sticks they use. They - The Vatican (?) with others - push a ‘black’ dark army against a nation, but why?‘For their own power and wealth and gain. They care not about me. They crush the poor and steal bread from the children’s mouths.’ I then see a vision of them trying to jumpstart a car - they lack power (of a spiritual sort) but soon that false satanic spark will come and testify for them. It comes like a black star falling into the sea - it goes into the deep abyss and then arises like a monster with a roar and fury for its time is short.
Then see how the signs and wonders movement is connected to corrupt and to infiltrate the church with a poisonous gospel, and to win it to heresy from the inside -http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2007/09/23/the-poisoned-pond-a-prophecy-for-the-church-of-2007/ Note too the testimony to Mary and to Rome. This is where signs and wonders are going as can be seen in some of the last posts on this site on the New Mystics, contemplative meditation and stigmatisim etc.
I had a vision…. saw a pond, and I knew this pond represented the modern day Christian church (all denominations). Reeds surrounded the edge of the pond and dipped their head in the water, and this water was supposed to be the water of life, feeding the many flocks from the surrounding fields who came to quench their thirst from the heat of the day, and being an oasis of tranquillity and calm in the world.
However, I saw that the pond water was bitter - it had been poisoned, intentionally and deliberately. I saw the water was in many parts stagnant and stinking, with dead flies lying on top of yucky yellowy-green algae clumped up together. There were large parts of the pond covered with this yellowish-green gunk and in some parts I could even see the ‘whiff’ rising as steam from the water. It was acrid.
However, in some parts of the pond, dotted here and there, there still seemed to be life and movement in the water, and it was cleaner and freer water underneath the surface, but the water in these sections was still not flowing as well as it should, it was being hindered with a limited space to move in before hitting a stinking section again. It was surrounded by gunk which bordered it on all sides. I saw this gunk press in and gain ground on the clean water, and it was like an army pressing in and gaining ground, pushing and charging and pressing in like a general moves the toy piece across to gain ground on a military map, except this ‘wall’ of mili tary might was on all sides - this ‘wall’ was attempting to squeeze the life and cleanness out of the ‘good’ ‘clean’ sections of water. I saw there was (or would be) fear and intimidation from these stinking parts of the pond.
I saw a large silver fish leap up from the water and then go back in again. It was unhealthy and gasping for breath, it could not breathe well because of the bad water.I wondered about this for some time. I remember the tactics of armies in the Roman Empire who poisoned their enemy’s water supplies - it was an effective method of ‘guerilla’ warfare, although out of order and acknowledged as barbaric. It got people without their even realising, by the time they realised it was too late. To that extent it was cunning - ’subtle’ and ’seductive’.
I wondered who would do such a thing to the church, and then I saw seductive spirits and the ‘men’ behind getting them into the modern day church. These counterfeit spirits (with seductive teachings) acted as the poison in the water, dropping in as blackness into the water and this poison spread rapidly and remarkably over the pond. The pond yielded seemingly without blinking, quite happy. Particularly, I saw the poison that had spread through the church ‘pond’ from the Toronto Blessing. This seduction had achieved in poisoning a wide spectrum of denominations with remarkable success, and made them pliable and open to delusion that few seductive teachings or spirits before had had such success with. Its success was also in going beyond a relatively limited sphere of influence within a singular denomination to affect and poison almost all denominations and groups. It (Toronto) was one of the most succesful seductions of the church as it had achieved what few other ’spirits’ had, and people under it were completely blind to its bad fruit. Once avoided false shepherds had achieved credibility and were ‘gurus’ to even non charismatic or pentecostal circles. False prophets and apostles birthed from it were now accepted by the wider body as coita.
The pond thought they had life, yet the pond stank and was never in a worse state! It thought it was alive, yet what I saw was ‘living’ (in the most part) was bacteria and vermin feeding off it. I was shocked at the deliberate intent and malice at the poisoning of the pond.
I then saw what looked like Tinkerbell (the fairy from Peter Pan) hovering over the stagnant parts of the pond, calling to them and whispering lovingly. She had silver stars on her head, and she was dressed in sparkling white and had a beautiful woman’s face that then became like the Madonna (note: the Virgin Mary as Roman Catholics see her, not the Biblical Mary). She looked holy and demure and beautiful and spiritual and she carried a wand which she held over the pond and the wand twinkled with stars and magical sparkle and gold dust which fell to the pond but when it touched the water it was dark and black and poisoned it even more, yet the pond water opened up more to accept it and thought it wonderful. She whispered sweetly and seductively and she was a marvellous sight indeed as she offered ‘magic’ and ‘mystery’. She got the eyes of the pond looking at her instead of focussing on Jesus - her name is Seduction - but some know her as ‘whore’ . The pond looked at her in wonder and began to seek her only and to worship her, not even realising they had been lead away from the true Jesus, they were so busy marvelling at her and her signs.
I could see the water (the people) reach out to her with open hearts with great joy and relief - they truly saw her as a sign, and she was, yet she was not of God but from the evil one. But they thought her marvellous.
I think it is clear to most what this vision means. Let him who has ears let him have ears what the Spirit has to say to the churches. WAKE UP! YOU ARE IN GREAT DANGER AND DO NOT EVEN KNOW IT, SEE HOW YOU SLUMBER. I COULD POKE YOU IN THE RIBS AND YOU NOT EVEN STIR. You have allowed these things in, what are you going to do about it? Repent, kick them and their heinous theories out? Seek me and seek cleansing and forgiveness. Seek to rescue the flock, speak up and rid your church of these things, be ruthless. It is too late for many of your people caught in this though. They stare right ahead, they will not listen to you if you tell them to turn from these things, they are enraptured, seduced, captured, gone. Like birds caught in a snare, their wings beat but they cannot fly free. Whose fault is it?
Then see this, I got only days before ‘revival’ hit Lakeland - http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/04/01/prince-charming-and-the-forgotten-gospel/
I saw the harvest fields (traditionally associated with the mission field) - but these fields were inside the ‘church’. They were ripe, plump and rich for harvest. I then saw a hoard of dark locusts or other insects devouring this beautiful ripe wheat, and as insects did they attacked the grain en masse - tiny nibbles here and there, but en masse it was devastating on the crop. I saw the swarm near the bottom of the grain stalks (where the grains stand), and there were many tiny holes and soon this wheat would not be able to stand as the stalks would be so weakened. I realised the dark locusts represented the false teachers and teachings within the modern day ‘church’, bringing about devastating damage because of the sheer amount of them. The darkness representing their spiritual identity - of darkness and not of the light. Note also, the devastation brought about by ‘tiny’ deviations of doctrine or ‘only little bits’ of bad behaviour, what damage is done when it is done on a large enough scale, by enough insects. I had never seen it quite like this before - it was awful to watch. The swarm was allowed at the crop, and it was a terrible thing to behold.
I then thought about the Joel prophecy about locusts. The locusts in Joel represented the enemy’s army of the North - Babylon - allowed by God to attack and destroy His people and their property because of their distance from God, their sin and apostasy. ‘Babylon’ in the book of Revelation is the apostasy of the world, and spiritual adultery in a religious setting, thriving on greed and corruption and a distorted message. And indeed Babylon is eating away at the modern day church - a hoard of false teachers on the religious television channels and in the pulpits and bookstores - and Babylon has become so intermingled with her, that the church is almost at one with it (instead of being at one with Christ Jesus).
I thought about the phrase: ‘I will restore the years the locusts have eaten….’ and wondered with my heart skipping a few beats of excitement: God, does that mean you will restore the church from its present state of decay to something amazing in this generation…? To restore it from a state of decline and apostasy and decay and corruption to something wonderful again, radiant and pure and true to the word? I thought about this and prayed for some time: perhaps something wonderful could happen in this generation, despite what I knew was to come in the future - but was then shown from various scriptures that were brought to my mind that this could not be so about the ‘church’ - although it could be about the smaller remnant true church (being Christ’s body) rather than the institution as such. God, of course, wanted what people think of as the ‘church’ to be right, and to repent, and to live in truth and be saved, but the truth is, I was shown, it will not be, as the majority will not repent and get right with God, or lay down their delusions or golden calfs at the alter.
I was then shown a vision of a handsome Prince Charming wearing his crown, coming to kiss the sleeping beauty church and awaken her from her evil inspired slumber. For a moment, again my heart skipped a beat - could this be Jesus coming for his bride - but almost immediately as I thought it, I was told this was not Jesus, but another one - a pretender to his throne. Oh Lord, Lord, do not let this be so - no, God! I groaned, devastated, and begged that it would not be so, but I knew that it must be so, for what is written. I knew this Prince Charming was the antichrist with the false prophet mouthpiece, and the church was fooled by him because she was (for the most part) asleep, and she took for herself a husband that was not her husband. If she had been awake and alert, she would not have been taken in by this Prince Charming (who looked so like Jesus I wondered for a moment if I was wrong about his true identity) coming for the church……he would kiss them awake and ‘revive’ them, with something the like of which we ain’t seen nothing of yet, real amazing signs in the heavens above etc, not just charlatanism - and it would be thought to be true revival by the ‘church’ but would be something awful in its overtones and its consequences. But this all had to happen so the scriptures would be fulfilled about a powerful end time delusion, and the state of the end time church. How it grieved me, how it grieved me. I wish it were not so….
In the Last Days, this false Prince, this pretender, will make War against the Saints and overcome them - but don’t you know, the way to first make war is to pretend you are on the other party’s side and undermine them or convert them to your cause. How many Trojan Horses as enticing gifts, have gone into the church, with the enemy hidden inside the horse’s belly to convert the church from the inside to apostasy? Swarms of them, I tell you, swarms of the dark army have run into the church and have ensconced themself there quite comfortably. And how succesful they have been, yet when I cry out a warning about them, I have stones flung at me by the church who insist I am not loving for saying this, and ordered to be quiet! Church, stop tolerating this dark enemy within you! If you want to practice true spiritual warfare, forget what Cindy Jacobs falsely prophecies and promises, but do something that will have almost immediate results - clean yourself up! Rid the enemy from your camp, and rid yourself of those that have intermarried with the enemy, and become a pure army, so that at least you will be able to stand, and carry on standing, and your legs will not be weakened by the locust nibbles.
What can I say to you all, then, but to be awake and alert - and watch and pray - and don’t fall asleep, for truly I say to you, we are in the days of the burning of the tenth lamp of oil (pp parable of the ten virgins). And warn the others. A prince comes soon - very soon. But it is the prince Daniel spoke of, not the Lord Jesus Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ will return, but when he does EVERY eye will see Him etc. Do not be fooled by this prince in the meantime. Stay awake and make sure you have enough oil.
And then see how there are incredible feelings and highs associated with this antichrist move that are hard to distinguish - even for the saints. http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2007/11/18/vision-of-war-peace-and-the-antichrist/
I then felt a tremendous tangible and also spiritual sense of peace, yet it was not from the Lord Jesus, it was from the antichrist. It was a false peace but it felt so incredible and so nice and so real and true that if the Lord had not told me it was not Him I would have thought it were from Him.
Time and time again, God has prophesied who the locusts are. And time and time again the false prophet prophesies who the locusts are too. Why on earth don’t the church listen? Wake up, I tell you, wake up! For this army, they prepare for war.
*****
So now, with that basic background info our of the way let’s look at what Lou Engle actually said at the Passion for Jesus conference that night.
He refered to the new Elijahs rising up, preparing the way as forerunners. (James Goll linked to Lou Engle on the Call’s board), wrote in Charisma Magazine that The Call would result in “a new breed of radical, fierce, yet humble intercessors… emerging on the scene”. He points out that “in every generation God raises up forerunners… like John the Baptist…to prepare the way.” The spirit of antichrist does the same thing in the use of his forerunner, the false prophet. What are Goll et al forerunning since they have such antichrist doctrines? Are, indeed, they and their kind the false prophet spoken of on Revelation who testifies to the beast? I think so. Or let’s say, they want to be. Whether or not God lets them do it, is another thing.
Lou Engle said that Elijah was a ‘God man’, (he used those words) and what was written about him was ‘prophetic’ for the end time Elijah Company.
Lou Engle spoke on civil war in the church, and he was talking about it literally, not just spiritually or metaphorically. This is the new apostolic takeover, or as Bob Jones prophesied, the civil war with the blues and greys (the people basically who have the new revelation and those in the church who oppose it). There was a lot of elitism and Nazarite separation and baloney he also mentioned, but I am focussing here on the dangerous militaristic teachings - this man, that so many people call sweet, humble and gentle, calls the apostolic church to ungodly war. Church, for God’s sake wake up and do not tolerate this man or this antichrist movement - or its revivals. God help us all!
***
According to Lou Engle, the initial vision for The Call was based on a prophetic message delivered by Bob Jones—who prophesied in 1993 that 100,000 people—mostly youth—would meet in Nashville to pray and usher in a new movement of the Holy Spirit. Of couse his own movement rushed to fulfil Bob Jones prophecies, so it was self fulfilling prophecy - just like the manufactured Toronto Blessing and other things were created to make them fit Bob Jones words and Latter Rain agenda.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, Miriam. I just want to encourage you to keep on speaking and working for the Lord. I had been praying for truth a couple of months ago, when I accidentally came across this blog. My family and I had been involved in a church that was very much into these same things. Reading what you have researched and written really helped me to sort out the true from the false. We are digging into the Word of God now more often, and holding up what others are saying to the light of scripture to see if it stands. I have learned to do that through your blog, nobody has ever really taught that to us before. God is using you, even if lots of others are accusing you for speaking up. Thank the Lord that someone is out there shouting to get out of this movement.
I noticed Todd Bentley doin’ the rocking back and forth. I guess that’s when he’s more ‘in the spirit.’ Oh, yes I did not capitalize ’spirit’ — not a mistake.
I’ve known Lou Engle back in 1985 before he went off to these crazy stuff he’s doing now. He does his rocking back and forth even when having a normal, regular conversation, especially when talking about the things of God because he was passionate about it. That’s just who he is, it has nothing to do with a manifestation of the Holy Spirit. We used to joke with him about that. I’m not defending him, I’m just saying it’s part of his personality. If he says that his rocking back and forth is from the unction of the Holy Spirit, he knows he’s lying. He uses that as an excuse to explain his natural habit (his wife tried to get him to stop that habit). The other stuff, the jerking, grunting, and the twitches, that is not normal.
I left the church where Lou was an assistant pastor at the time, and the movement in 1991 because that’s when they start going off course. It amazes me how far off course he is now, it grieves me that he was duped by the seducing spirits.
I am sad that when I google Todd Bentley that I find someone judging and putting him down. I have worked with many and know well many that have interned underneath him and they are for real and Todd Bentley is as well. How can the church unite if all we do is put down every person that tries to obey the Father and wants to see a change. So, I will be praying as I do everyday with my prayer group that the church will awaken to the move of God and stop trying to stop it from moving forward. I know Lou and his family and worked with them through the cause and the call. I don’t believe that he is doing what he does just to make Bob Jones look good and accurate.
It grieves me to see the church attack the church. Lou Engle has given his life to fast and pray for America to turn back to God. That is his whole message, plain and simple.
I remind you of the warning of scripture: Romans 14:10-12
“You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. It is written:
” ‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.’ “So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
I challenge you to stop your public mockery and rather, to invest your energy in prayer. Ask the Lord how He feels about Lou… And if Lou IS off track in some way, that the Holy Spirit would minister His love and revelation.
We will all be held accountable for our words.
In Christ,
Estee
Estee
So you are Ok with killing people then?
Don’t judge (as in criticise)?!!! My God - they have really done a number on you to twist your thinking so!!!!
Will you speak out if/when they actually start slaughtering before your eyes, or is that not loving, godly or right then to speak out, either? Perhaps you’ll be one of the ones wielding the sword though if you give them any more of your mind and soul.
ps
It grives you to hear (right and fair) criticism, but apparently you are not grieved by false theology, false prophecy and sin - and doctrines of demons and of the antichrist?!!
It never ceases to amaze me that when the truth is brought out about people like Bentley, Bob Jones, Engle, etc., the conversation is always the same:
Those who support their guys always say: “Well, this is how I FEEL about them”
Whereas, those who wish to expose them always say: “Here is what the Word of God says.”
Same pattern. Same delusion. Every time.
Or who are we to judge, touch not the Lord’s annointed, eat the meat and spit out the bones, the truth is in the fruit, there is always a mix in every great move of God, God will deal with those who are false IF they are false-so it’s not our job to speak out against a brother, etc, etc, etc.
CooperChrist…i agree BOB JONES IS NUTS! i dont think that the craziness of one man however is reason to completly bash an entire organization…Bob Jones is a man of God who has made some SERIOUS mistakes in his life and has sinned…just as you and i sin every day, unless i missed something, but i realize this may sound corny but i just want you to think about what Jesus would have to say about the way you bash his faithful followers i mean Bob Jones is a little crazy…and some of the others you mentioned may also be a bit loopy but it is no reason to be calling him a “Male Jezebel”…all thats doing is causing disunity among Christ’s church and believe me we dont need any more of that than we already have…I also believe that even though these men may have made some mistakes and let there own human thoughts get mixed up with what God is saying that there is no reason to bash them…even if they have given false prophecies…yes they must repent and acknowledge that what they have done is wrong but we cant just cast them out…is that what Jesus would have wanted?
-Matt
p.s. are you seriously going so far as to say that Bentley, an amazing man of God, is setting up the demonic end times Church!?!?! thats very bold of you and i think you need to be careful because it does say many times in the bible about not tearing down your brothers and sisters in christ and to edify them rather than to tear down there ministries and them down…
Matt:
You need to study again what calling someone a male Jezebel or Balaam really means - it means they are prophesying not by the Spirit of Christ. It is not saying they are not necessarily kind or sincere, it is calling them for what they are - false prophets, leading people astray to other gods and other Jesus’s. I do not think I used that word of Bob Jones anyway but I do not disagree with the statement.
Saying what they are and warning people what they are, calling them for what they ar,e does not mean you ‘bash’ them - but the BIBLE does stay you should not associate with such people who have been warned. It does say to cast them out. It is exactly what Jesus wants, He says so in His word!
Yes I am seriously saying that Bentley and others are leading to an antichrist church - and even they testify to it themselves, read their theology, it is undeniable, their own words testify against themselves as being led by the spirit of antichrist.
We are called to publically refute false teachers and protect the sheep from the wolves.
Do you ever speak up about anything? Supposing a witch came next week to your church teaching spellcraft would you keep quiet for the sake of your form of ‘unity’ and ‘love’ and not ‘tearing down’? Don’t you know God calls the church to tear down its idols?
Interesting indeed! Reading through the comments here, I can’t help but to say I Love the way andypro stated it! And he is absolutely correct in his assessment, WE are to point out false doctrine by the BIBLE and what the BIBLE alone has to say about it!! You can talk until your blue in the face on ones opinions about a persons doctrine, if your NOT backing it up with what the word of GOD says then forget it, it don’t mean SQUAT!! These heretics are literally stating the very opposite of what the bible says, and because LAZY *** people don’t bother to read the bible for themselves to see what it has to say, then there going to fall for the STUPIDEST theology a man can come up with.
READ READ READ the BIBLE people compare it to what others are saying, and it’s clear as a clear blue sky who the false teachers are. You have to ask yourself then if these people are of God, and do love God then why don’t they believe what Gods words say? They evidently don’t believe it or else they would keep the boundaries of scriptures. Why are they saying the opposite of what the bible teaches, if they love God, and are so “HOLY” men of God? I don’t give a HOOT what kind of anointing these men say they have, and what kind of signs and wonders come from them, if they don’t STAND up to the scrutiny of scriptures and refuse to change there theology to line up with it, then their NOT of GOD PERIOD!!!! And they DON’T love God like they claim, their either liars or flat out deceived themselves. If they did love God then they would NOT change his words. And the bible warns what will happen to people who change his words. If you don’t believe that then LOOK it up yourself, many obviously need to read the bible anyway. You just going to take it for granted what anther man has to say about the words of the bible and not bother to go read and study it yourself then you deserve to be lied to!!!
I want to thank the author of this website who has made it an effort to make it CRYSTAL CLEAR in the light of scriptures what these men of the Kansas City prophets are doing, and who they really are, WOLVES IN SHEEPS CLOTHING!! THE BLIND LEADERS OF THE BLIND!!
And I’m not one bit afraid to say this about them, you want to know why? Because the bible says SO, NOT ME.
I’d like to point out the fact that no matter how much you people wanna tear down these MEN OF GOD you can notice that none of them are calling you “anti-christs”! these men and women of IHOP KC run an unbelievable ministry that has touched many hearts and God has used them to bring hundreds probably even thousands to him…including myself…i was at the OneThing Conference when i actually felt God for the first time…I just don’t understand what the problem with them is… they’re helping many christians and non-christians and strengthining the faith of many…even if you dont agree with their teachings it doesnt give you reason to tear them down
I have only started reading this blog and I commend it for being upfront and open about these issues.
There is a big problem in the church and this problem has been around for 2000 years. It’s not a new phenomenon. The tools of the trade may have changed but the trade is still the same. It’s really about using Christianity to control people. When individuals start talking about others who disagree as being worthy of death, then there is a real problem. It is yet another claim and counter claim of othodoxy which will result in persecution of one side or the other.
There have been many historic schisms, and these have generally resulted in the execution of the weaker group. Othodox/Catholic, Catholic/protestant and so on, the most well known would be the inquisition.
The way forward away from the ignorance that allowed ‘christians’ to slaughter ‘christians’ was to have the bible translated into the birth languages of the people. Great.
However, what is happening among charismatics and even evangelicals now is a move away from the revelation of scripture to following direct ‘revelation’ from ‘prophets’.
As evangelicals have grown more charismatic, they have become less evangelical as a result. What do I mean by evangelical? Simply put, an Evangelical Christian is someone who reads and understands the Bible in a sincere and deep way. Someone who is looking for good exegesis (taking knowledge from the Bible) rather than looking for a random text that seems to support your latest word from the Lord.
Even in Bible churches I have been to recently, there is a move away from bible teaching and preaching towards self-esteem pep-talks.
While there is a lot of stuff happening which we can rightly condemn as being, at best, dodgy or ill-advised all the way through the spectrum to bad and demonic, the global body of Christ is ever more likely to pursue it because we think we are doing what the Lord told us to do. i.e. “go out and make disciples of all nations”
The problem is we think that means put bums on seats and we measure our success by counting heads in our services. We, as the body, are failing to do what Christ told us to do. We rely on the church organisation to do the evangelism and the discipleship. We want things we can bring our non-christian friends to … but we don’t actually have that many non-christian friends do we? Those that we do know, we are too scared to invite to a church service that seeks to honour God.
The fact is, the church shouldn’t be doing evangelism. Believers should be doing evangelism. The church should be putting on Worship Services where some teaching can happen from the pulpit and the rest of the time the church should be doing discipleship.
In my experience, evangelistic services very rarely have a single non-believer present. We are wasting our time.
This is why charismatic services are so popular with believers. No bible being taught and expounded. No boring hymns. The services are full of strange things and its all very exciting.
But the reason this was tried by some was because it might get more people into church …
Just like seeker sensitive services by Willow Creek et al have been tried. It’s all about getting people into church so that we can evangelise them. That’s the main reason for all the problems. The church has simply tried to make converts … not disciples.
If the church has globally concentrated on making disciples, it would be much bigger now and there would be no room for any of the big heretical doctrines or signs and wonders deceptions going round now.
Well, that’s my rambling tuppence worth.
Shalom
Matt, Jesus wasn’t “nice” as we Americans like to think He was.
He was no Hallmark Card.
He is all truth, justice. love and power over sin and death.
But Jesus wasn’t “nice”. Figure it out. The Lord is allowing these false prophets now for the same reason He allowed them in Deut 13. To test the hearts of men to see whether He was on the throne of their hearts or not.
The latest idol of these false prophets like Kim Clement is “Our Promise” in God. That is a very sneaky idol.
I had a vision of the Todd Bentley “revival”. I had a birds eye view of it. People were huddling in corners, overcome with pain and grimacing, because they came for an “anointing” and left being demonized. Then suddenly one woman realized they were being “watched” in the Spirit and she put up a big hand up to the ceiling as if to block my view.
This is witchcraft of the first order. I believe Todd’s “revival’ is a winnowing, it is a time of separation for the true saints and the truly deluded.
Pray for the Elect that they might not be deceived. Pray for the unsaved that they might be truly saved; and I pray that this wickedness would be exposed by the Lord in merciful JUDGEMENT.
we are called by God to unify the church…and no this does not mean that we tolerate evil but i do not believe that IHOP KC leaders are demonic or evil…just because you don’t agree with their theology gives you no reason to try and pick apart their ministry…these guys claim to follow Jesus and love him and that should be enough…even if you believe fervently that they are incorrect in their doctrines that does not make them the church of the anti-christ… i disagree with calvinism but i do not call calvinists demonic, Male Jezebels, baal worshippers, false prophets or the church of the anti-christ
cooperchirst:
now tell me how am i supposed to believe that your “vision” from “God” is actually from God…couldnt you just be another one of these false prophets were so quick to accuse…i believe that Todd has an unbelievable ministry and that he is in fact a MAN OF GOD! why do we have to be so quick to attack him.
Bull: i think you have some truthful statements but the fact that you say that charismatics are dont use scripture is a load of crap…Nearly every sermon(if not every sermon) i have heard at IHOP has had a DEEP base in the scriptures…have you ever even heard a message by any of these men? they are very deeply rooted in the word…on his vacations Mike Bickle goes and studies the scripture and meditates on God’s word day and night! now tell me he isn’t a man of God?!?! i do, however, agree with you that the church needs to get off its butt and go OUT and evangelize not just wait for non-christians to come to us…although i disagree when you say that a “Church’s” job is to put on a worship service and the believers job is to go out and evangelize…i believe that as believers we are the church and we should UNITE as ONE to go out and Preach the word as Jesus told us to do in the Great Commision
Matt you have not done your homework on Mike Bickle and friends.
Jesus tells us to “test the spirits — which means test the spirit behind the doctrine that is preached — “because every spirit does not come from God. Even now the Anti Christ Spirit is in the world.”
Every prophetic word given, mine, yours, anyone’s, needs to be tested by the Word by you. You will be judged as to what you have given your approval to by the Lord. Especially if you claim to be for Mike Bickle et all without understanding what they truly believe.
Here are some questions for you:
What does Bickle believe about the End Times, Matt?
Where in the Bible does it say that end times “apostles” and “prophets” will lead the church into physical dominion over the nations so as to usher in the Second Coming?
Unity without truth is what Satan wants. He wants his one world religion of Mormons, Muslims, Catholics, Buddhists, Hindus etc., to all come together to worship him when he tries to pass himself off as Jesus to the world.
How many times do Jesus and the Apostles warn against false teaching which is false prophecy? Doesn’t that require that we understand what false prophecy and false doctrine is?
Besides doctrine and besides lying that goes on with Mike Bickle, and todd B etc., what troubles me is their emphasis.
They emphasize angels instead of the work of the Holy Spirit.
They promise gemstones. Signs and wonders.
I actually believe that if you have true faith when you go to one of their meetings, you will still meet the Lord there, in whatever capacity He deigns.
But we cannot be yoked with this movement. We are then ‘unequally yoked with unbelivers” and I believe that is what this Apostolic Prophetic movement is really about. They prophecy their own futures, or try to. They name and claim their own authority and back themselves up with their sheer numbers. todd Bentley claims he has authority not because of Jesus, but because Paul Cain and Bob Jones have given it to them! This is a mantle Todd needs to vomit off his person.
The Lord promises that there will be an End Time falling away from faith.
He tells us that the AntiChrist will try to counterfeit Him.
If this movement is not that, what is it? Show yourself approved. Do the investigating. The Lord requires that you give every man an answer for your faith.
Here is my final question to you:
What is the meaning of the proverb:
It is to the glory of the Lord to conceal a matter, but to the glory of kings to uncover it? (or reveal it?)
Act in His priestly, royal authority that He died to give you, Matt and do the work of a king.
Please whoever owns this site or is responsible for the coments ,i plead with you to be very careful as calling good evil and evil good, remember when Jesus was casting out devils and they acused him of moving under the power of satan, please be very careful calling men that God maybe using as evil you may be coming against the Holy Spirit and if you r no one can help you, please if you lack understanding other peoples gifts and callings its no excuse to speak evil against them , get with God and walk in love or be distroyed , i didnt write the book neither did you so obey it and it will go well with you
burninglamp,
There are several things wrong with your comments. You said:
“be very careful as calling good evil and evil good”
Well, if we see evil, and we DON’T call it evil, wouldn’t we then be doing the same thing? I guess I would just caution you to be careful calling what is evil good.
You also said:
“you may be coming against the Holy Spirit and if you r no one can help you”
Again, if these men are actually doing evil in God’s sight, wouldn’t YOU be coming against the Holy Spirit by claiming things that have satanic and occultic origins are from the Holy Spirit? According to YOUR WORDS, if you are then no one can help you.
And you said:
“i didnt write the book neither did you so obey it and it will go well with you”
Wow, It seems that what this site, and many of the posters on it, are trying to do is obey the book by testing the spirits.
burninglamp, I’ve got to ask you, (regarding the men and their teachings in this article), in what way are you following the direct scriptural command to test the spirits to see if they are from God?
Just obey God’s Word and it will go well with you.
I encourage people who don’t understand the doctrine behind the Apostolic-Prophetic movement to really challenge me and anyone else on this stuff.
We all know, or should know, that Jesus is Lord and He IS the Word Made Flesh.
There are a lot of little arguments in the charismatic movement, such as “check your brain at the door” and come into worship — that need to be addressed.
As a charismatic myself, I see the error of this doctrine and am just amazed at how far from the Lord (the Word) they have traveled.
burning lamp:
i completely agree with you but honestly theres not much point arguing with these guys…they don’t wanna give any ground and are intent on trying to tear down an amazing prophetic movement of the Holy Spirit and its not even worth arguing with them…all its gonna do is make you mad and angry against brothers in christ so my advice to you is to drop it and not argue with these guys…its not gonna do any good.
Right Matt, I don’t want to argue. I want to convince you of the Truth that you confess you ALREADY believe.
You say you are a Christian? Then why are you not showing yourself approved when Jesus tells us again and again to beware false prophets?
Do you believe Jesus when HE says “I will send a delusion?”
Or not?
Paul says we are to give “every man an answer” for our faith.
What’s your answer Matt?
Hello,
Could someone please show me where Rick Joyner preached that Jesus Christ is mere spirit and did not come in the flesh. I would like to know where I can find the whole text and not just some sentence that may be out of context. I am asking because I would really like to know about this if it is true. I have been to IHOP in KC and heard Mike Bickle preach. He preached out of revelation on the whore of Babylon that sits on many waters. He warned about the great falling away. I came away from it worried about falling away from my faith, but it was all straight out of scripture with no distortion and no talk of an invincible army of believers. It pretty much sounded a lot like things I’m hearing you say about the end times.
Hello,
Here is a link to teaching notes from IHOP KC.
http://www.ihop.org/Group/Group.aspx?ID=1000000379
You may have to copy and paste it. It all looks like pretty biblical end times stuff to me. I see reference to the abomination that causes desolation, the whore of Babylon, the false prophet, etc. etc.
Dear servant of God,
Iam so Glad for the good work you are doing in your ministry God bless you.Iam pastor thomas okinyi from kisii kenya,iam realy touched to inquire from you since irequest for affiliation with your organization above all i need more of your prayers i have put you in mind for i will not forget you in my always prayers.
I love you and your ministry,please let me know Hope to hear from you,
yours inchrist pastor thomas okinyi from kenya kisii amen.
I see error on both sides of this discussion. May I suggest a book? Marion Kremers wrote a book about the end times called “God Intervenes In The Middle East”. She is a scholar and has put together a fascinating book. I would recommend it.
I also believe in calling evil, evil. My friend won’t even comment on the Lakeland revival because she is scared of “touching the anointing”. I believe in calling things out. I went to the revival, mostly because I had never heard of these people and in the first weeks of the revival, it seemed of God. But it turned into a money-maker quite quickly, and I have problems with the whole pay-more get-more idea when it comes to the anointing and ministry.
I have been very disappointed with the whole thing, but I am glad because I would not want to be in error.