Pentecostal ministers caught out faking word of knowledge prophecy & healing
Lying and charlatanism is all too common in the church today. The most frustrating thing is the way the charlatans are allowed to continue unrebuked or undisciplined. More grief is given to watchmen like me for warning about the wolves, than is given to the wolves themselves! It seems the ‘church’ charlatans, apostates, heretics - that is the wolves - really can do anything, and still we should be silent and not warn people, far less correct, rebuke or discipline the wolf. Even the more enlightened ones, who see the wolves for what they actually, still will not stir - except to stir to shout the watchmen down for being ‘unloving’, ‘divisive’ or ‘judgmental’. It is absolutely ridiculous (not to mention contradictory and hypocritical, for if it is wrong to judge and correct, or to ‘touch’ God’s anointed, how come they judge, correct and touch God’s anointed, the watchmen?)!
Lou Engle recently went way too far – he said the church should kill people- http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/05/07/lou-engle-of-the-call-calls-for-war/ - and yet a poster commentating on this site is ‘grieved’ not by Engle’s militancy but by me for quote: ‘public mockery’. Sadly there was nothing mocking in that article - the antichrist rising is DEADLY serious and a call to persecution of true Bible-believers is no laughing matter. Then we have Gretta Vosper, a reverend with the United Church in Canada, who preaches a gospel of love without the cross or Christ, http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/05/07/the-gospel-of-love-without-the-cross-or-jesus/ yet her superior says: ‘it is not his job to condemn’ (and by that, meaning not condemining the person but the teaching by speaking out or doing anything about it like sacking the woman). The mind boggles, it really does, at this sort of mentality. It is far from biblical, for the Bible urges us to speak up and vigorously contend publically with false prophets and teachers.
Anyway, here is some of the fakes and charlatans’ Hall of Fame -
Lucy Rael, one of the new mystic crowd linked to John Crowder, Todd Bentley etc was caught out faking ‘angel’ feathers in a meeting, and was also caught out faking words of knowledge too (and probably her stigmata) http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/05/08/new-mystic-stigmatic-lucy-rael-caught-faking-angel-feathers-word-of-knowledge/
Glenn Smith of Shem Ministries was caught out planting gemstones in a meeting. http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/01/11/gemstones-fraud-glenn-smith-caught-redhanded/
Silvania Machado of the gold dust fame was caught out placing gold glitter in her hair. (see above article)
Benny Hinn has been caught out repeatedly lying, including notably lying about a person raised from the dead who wasn’t, and a hospital ward that was healed that was not.
Todd Bentley faking words of knowledge: http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/04/10/todd-bentley-prophesying-bad-cold-reading/
Marjoe Goertner (famous between the 1950s and 1970s) – the one differance with all the other people I mention is that he came clean in a book and documentary, and confessed that his pentecostal crusades were all stage managed for money. He never really believed in God, he says, and was leading a sexually immoral lifestyle, smoking and drinking doing all the things he preached against. http://youtube.com/watch?v=6O0p4ZDnDoQ and http://youtube.com/watch?v=p9Kv7XRaKw8
Kojo Nana Obiri-Yeboah, a Ghanaian pastor, caught out with an electric shock machine. This machine could be hidden on his body to give out small electric charges when he laid hands on people that faked being touched by the Holy Spirit: http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/01/21/shocking-ministry/
Here’s a video about Peter Popoff in action faking getting his words of knowledge http://youtube.com/watch?v=gZ-7beRITYM&feature=related and also some more here from 2007 http://youtube.com/watch?v=aHIyFmJTRsM&feature=related His motive is obviously money too.
On previous posts I have talked about how easy it is to fake words of knowledge – either by cold reading and guesswork, http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/04/10/todd-bentley-prophesying-bad-cold-reading/ , planting some stooges in the audience, or by obtaining knowledge from other means than the Holy Spirit, like some basic research beforehand in the local newspapers, church bulletins, or prayer requests and application forms written before or during a rally or conference, or by the innocent or deliberate collusion of others – like sending out researchers or listening to a talkative pastor and his wife – and then later using this obtained information and pretending it to be ‘words of knowledge’. (I saw certain YWAM leaders do this regularly against their ‘disciples’ as part of their abusive control structure).
I have talked about ministers lying about spiritual things and faking prophecy to manipulate their flock. Here is an extra little snipit by ’Sheepy’ about his experiences of pastors using prophecy to manipulate and control -
When I was a college student, I niavely got involved with a shepherding movement out of Arizona known by many names: The Potter’s House (not related to TD Jakes), The Door, La Puerta, etc.It was amazing the level of prophecy that came. Most words involved submitting to God’s anointed – or else. What a number of men who left the movement later told me was that is is common practice for the pastor to secretly tell the visiting evangelist what is going on with who and then for the evangelist to speak prophetically to that issue – usually with a “you need to submit to your pastor” to get God’s blessing.
It was an utter and total scam. This organization has had several major breaks with most every leader I knew back then leaving. The manipulation, the lying, the sheer deception done under the guide of prophecy was revolting. Sad to say, I’ve seen this sort of stuff in other churches, too.
Update – Steve, posted this interesting comment -
“I was stationed at Ft Lewis, WA with the military and a small church of about 50-100 did the same thing. Here is how the pastor of this growing church (due to his words of knowledge) worked…
He would send out teams of two people and they would go around and strike up conversations with other military service members. Long story short some of these people were told to report back to the pastor about what everyone was doing & having problems with. This ‘pastor’ suggested that the teams write down the information on 3×5 cards on ‘visitors’ with name, address, phone # AND what problems they were facing in their lives.
Then if when these people were brought to church, suddenly the pastor had ‘words of knowledge’ about that specific person/s (the same info that was on the card).
A terrible way to grow a ‘church’. I voiced my concerns when I found out & they stopped visiting me. Shortly after that I was deployed and never went back to that base.
Yes its sad that folks resort to faking stuff like this. However we must not forget that there are real words of knowledge & prophecy – so don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. In light of the current condition of the ‘church’ we really need to ask for the Lord’s discernment and test everything against scripture.”
But ‘touch not my anointed’, right? Wrong!
Another incident from http://lit4ever.org/revivalforum/index.php?topic=12514.msg20550;topicseen#msg20550 – (I do not agree with the message though on this forum):
At a healing rally, an evangelist asked the lady if she had ever met him before. “No.”
He repeated the question and added, “So we have never had a conversation before this moment, right?” She responded, “No, but I spoke to some of your staff members.”
Irritated, he said, “That’s not what I asked. Pay attention. You and I have never had a conversation before this moment, right?” She got a little uneasy, “No, but…”
“Do you believe God knows your name?”
“Yes.”
“Do you believe God knows everything about you?”
“Yes.”
“Is your name ____, and do you have a son named ____?”
“Yes.”
“Let me ask again…Have you and I ever had a conversation before tonight?”
“No, but….”
“Don’t interrupt the atmosphere, just answer yes or no to my questions. …Have you and I ever had a conversation before tonight?”
“No.”
She looks down at me, pleadingly, as if to say, “What do I do?!”
He continues, “You had a wreck about 2 years ago, yes or no?”
“Yes.”
“You hurt your back and haven’t been able to bend to touch your toes since then, yes or no?”
“Yes.”
“Do you believe Jesus heals?”
“Yes, but…” He stops her as she tries to say, “But I spoke to YOUR STAFF and told them these things!”
“Don’t grieve the atmosphere, just answer yes or no to my questions. ..Do you believe Jesus heals?”
“Yes, of course I do! But…” As he stops her from speaking, she begins to nervously cry.
“There it is! Don’t be afraid to weep! That weeping shows that He’s coming on your right now!”
For those who do not yet know me - I believe in genuine prophecy. I believe in genuine healing and miracles, and the genuine gifts of the Spirit. I believe in being filled with the Spirit. But I also believe in charlatans and spiritually abusive churches and ministries – don’t you?
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yea faking words of knowledge is not just for big churches & tv evangelists. I was stationed at Ft Lewis, WA with the military and a small church of about 50-100 did the same thing. Here is how the pastor of this growing church (due to his words of knowledge) worked…
He would send out teams of two people and they would go around and strike up conversations with other military service members. Long story short some of these people were told to report back to the pastor about what everyone was doing & having problems with. This ‘pastor’ suggested that the teams write down the information on 3×5 cards on ‘visitors’ with name, address, phone # AND what problems they were facing in their lives.
Then if when these people were brought to church, suddenly the pastor had ‘words of knowledge’ about that specific person/s (the same info that was on the card).
A terrible way to grow a ‘church’. I voiced my concerns when I found out & they stopped visiting me. Shortly after that I was deployed and never went back to that base.
Yes its sad that folks resort to faking stuff like this. However we must not forget that there are real words of knowledge & prophecy – so dont throw the baby out with the bath water. In light of the current condition of the ‘church’ we really need to ask for the Lord’s discernment and test everything against scripture.
Thanks for posting this piece. Keep seeking God, listen & obey only Him.
Love,
steve
[...] fact is that gold dust lust generally draws people away from God and leads them into sin (see Pentecostal ministers caught out faking word of knowledge prophecy & healing). And what of the 300 people who received Gold Teeth Miracles in Toronto? Did this turn the world [...]
Pingback by Following the Gold Trail « Wolf Tracks | May 16, 2008
From Revival School forum:
He also knew phone numbers or parts of phone numbers and got EXACT addresses of people in the congregation and would call them up …. “Someone lives at such and such street” and the person would come up on the stage.
He would then describe the well on their property, or the front street lights …. making the audience “wooo and ahhhh” all the more …. “Isn’t he awesome?”
The chanting music …. yes chanting …. one rhythm, and the same few words repeated over and over and over and over, breaking only for this wonder ‘prophet’ to speak out another address, or a first name and middle name, had all the audience drunk on his abilities. They were all dupped and claimed him as some ‘great prophet of God’.
I couldn’t believe that my friends fell for it.
Just because a spirit knows where I live, or knows my name, does that make it God?
There was NO edification or warning for the church.
There was no “Word” from God that even resembled a Scripture.
There was nothing. Not even fortune telling for the people once they got up on stage. He just accumulated a bunch of people on stage, and would not even look at them once they got on stage.
He called them up on stage by knowing their addresses, names, names of relatives, and then that was it …. nothing else for them up there. Some got tired of standing there after literally 1/2 hr or sometimes one hr, and then just left the stage with no one ever talking to them at all …..
but the music kept chanting at deafening levels, the chanting words, broken only by more address or names being called out.
It was the weirdest event I’d been to …
all glory to the man on stage who knew addresses and names of complete strangers.
What an absolute disgrace to the Body of Christ !
The North American Church is weak, and immature, and can’t even discern a man-of-God from a fortune teller.
A spirit may not have been telling him… I know a person who went to a conference and someone was doing just that: calling out addresses. Well they called out their address… instantly they saw in the spirit the man looking at the check in the offering plate they had written to the ministry the night before! So, the man was just looking at the offerings and getting addresses from people’s checks that they had written previously to the ministry and then “prophesying” to them the next day. It was a total fraud.
what evil that is…to play with lies toward God’s people. Oh, what anger they are laying up for themselves…from a Holy God. may they repent of this .
Yes, it is so true. We all need to be very careful in these last days…but also that we do not miss the move of God because of all the false moves..cause it can make you just a little more then careful after reading all about these things..but glad that yall talk about them and bring them out in the open for all to see..
I think that we all believe in healing and prophecy because we believe the Bible, and Jesus said that we would do greater works.
I have been seeking healing for a long time from injuries in an auto wreck. I spent years seeking by myself and then went looking for healing and have found none.
1. I have heard about people who go to sick people’s homes and stay until they are healed. Kenneth HAgin speaks of sever that he knew. John G Lake trained his Divine Healing Technicians to so this. Is there anyone doing that in our day and age?
2. Are there any ministries that you would recommend?
What about Charles and Frances Hunter, or Curry Blake (John G Lake Ministries)?
AAA: I have altered your name on your post – what more do you want from me? If you want to retract, change or correct what you said, then do that now in another post.
I think that we all believe in healing and prophecy because we believe the Bible, and Jesus said that we would do greater works.
Are there any ministries that you would recommend? i.e. where they have repeatable success in getting people healed and will work with people individually.
5. I think that we all believe in healing and prophecy because we believe the Bible, and Jesus said that we would do greater works.
Are there any ministries that you would recommend?
I wish to apologise to Kenneth Hagin, Charles and Frances Hunter and Curry Blake for mentioning your names on this page. Number 5 was my first post and in childlike innocence, I wrote down just what came into my mind at the time. I asked for its removal. I would not write post number 5 today.
I would like to know about healing.
Any one got any testimonies?
My own daughter was healed, and the doctors in my church, and at the Montreal children Hospital admitted it, but they had added the absurd statement she healed herself miraculously.. healed herself.. it can’t be done!!
Talk about mixed messages! Article abt TD Jakes
http://www.insightnews.com/health.asp?mode=display&articleID=4946
Yes indeed. The “gold dust” thing hit our city this summer in a church that once stood against such foolishness… at least they did until recently. I was appalled to learn about this first-hand from my own daughter who happened to be visiting that church during a citywide youth convention. She came home and told us all about it. We would never have let her go if we knew that church had fallen prey to this kind of nonsense.
Since that night, I (as a pastor) have been contacted by several families whose teens were also at that meeting, plus I’ve been contacted by people from the church where this took place who are very concerned about the sudden shift in direction their church leadership has taken. They all want to know how this gold dust appeared and what it means. Never mind gold dust… if they could get gold BARS to appear, I’d borrow a pick-up truck and head over there myself!
I applaud you for being a voice of reason in the midst of such a throng of charlatans and snake oil salesman who are peddling the Gospel of Jesus Christ for profit and thrills. The unknowing crowds who are eager for a “sign” are being drawn in by the thousands. Unfortunately, I’ve counseled many of them who have come out the other side years later, bitterly disappointed, bewildered, and wounded. What a tragedy.
Your well balanced approach to all this is very refreshing. Thank you!
May God bless you.
Phil
What’s all this nonsense about retracting names?
Hagin, the Hunter’s and others have been in the healing ministry so what’s the big deal?
my daughter told me that her cousins came up to her and said look it’s glitter from God all over our arms, it won’t come off! she reached over and went, wipe wipe, there it’s gone.
Popoff was exposed years ago on 60 minutes, I tried to expose him to the Dept of Aging for using our seniors income of SSI and he promising their miracles, which they did not get. It showed his wife with someting in her ear, she would go around and ask people their names and what was wrong, she in turn told her husband. I saw him destroy my pastor’s wife family years ago. I called his number to talk to whom ever and they wanted to send me HOLY water, I tried to tell them that I knew what they were doing, and of course they hung up on me! They have their files shredded so no one can go back and see all the letters that come with the money and after, asking where their miracle is! We all want God’s will in our lives…ask it from Him…not from man…and when someone tells you something, by the mouth of two or three witnesses, and He would have spoken to your heart as well..
Hi,spent lot of time learning not to notice forgive my franch “crap” Hinn now teling people to “worship the holly gost” from Australian Tv. therare few others before Hinn one minut they talk of one thing next ok “buy my book” and others pay some money for our couse? who gets the money, I dont mind to help Africa but wont pay a cent to them to help on mybehalf, oh yeh coplan comes on with his friend his friends surname is “Dollar” and at the end all use and abuse Jesus as usial, spatial words to get people going is “be saved from demons by Hinn”, Know the purpuse and path of your life by “coplen and friends” all teach is it teacing? dont thing so, What Jesus ner clime to be in the Bible “I am the son of God” its not even mantion, well what one can expact from “Supernaturalists” and “Worship holly gost” and what? forget Jesus and God, and all that people sitting there? dummmmm? sorry but whan they put themself above other peoples intaligens and slander Jesus I will say as I see it Thank you.