Please watch this short video from Lakeland through - particularly the bits around 4.10 to 5.00 minutes which is really mocking and irrelevant (you can fast forward if you like) and between 5.50 to 6.20 minutes. At around 6.50 mins Todd Bentley mentions the special angel that will visit the children - note how insincere Bentley sounds as he says this - and from 8.35 to the end of the video where he really starts laughing but it is so fake! This is not a genuine laugh, let alone laughter in the spirit (even of we agreed there was such a genuine thing). Todd Bentley once again shows exactly what he is and what he is moved by - and it ain’t God.
I grew up in a church that went through the Toronto Blessing and Brownsville Revival and that church recently sent its youth pastor down to Lakeland to “bring the glory back.”
Having lived through it, and seeing it happen again I am troubled.
Arounf the 5:25 mark he says he told God at any price he would pay it to live in this glory. Everytime I hear something like that or see churches that “take back the glory” and stay in it for months and years, I think about the transfiguration, when Jesus revealed His Glory to Peter, James and John and Peter said “Let’s stay here and build 3 temples” and what does the Bible say it says “Peter didn’t know what he was atlking about.”
Then I think of Isaiah when he is in the presence of God and what does he do. He doesn’t say “Let me stay here” he sayd “Here I am I will go for you.”
What happened to Jesus and the Disciples after God’s glory was revealed. They got sent right back into the battle when they confronted a demon possed boy.
I am very wary of any “move” of the spirit that gathers people to experience it and stay in it.
Comment by Steve | May 12, 2008
lol, wait a second, so you’re judging the way he’s laughing? you’re saying he’s not of God because you don’t like the way he laughs…wow, a new low. What if someone said you weren’t of God because of the way you laughed? I thought I read somewhere that we were supposed to judge a tree by it’s fruits. I thought I read somewhere that God judges the heart, not the outward actions. And while we are on the subject, what have you done that makes you worthy to judge his ministry? Furthermore, isn’t it blasphemy if you call something of God, to be something of the devil? Now you may think you’re right, but what if you’re not? If you’re wrong, You just committed blasphemy against the holy spirit, which according to the scriptures is unforgivable. If he’s wrong and leading people astray, God can topple him, he created everything, I’m sure he can bring the downfall of one man. I’m not going to worry about what he says wrong, or if he laughs wrong. I’m gonna pray for the guy, he seems to be the only one doing anything for God these days that isn’t just judging other people. If he’s doing wrong, or if he’s incorrect, I still believe he’s sincere. I am going to pray that God keeps him in line, that God helps him stay pure, because at least he’s trying to do something. You are so hypocritical and judgemental it makes me sick. This is why the world hates the church. You are why the world hates the church. I pray God spares your lives, and doesn’t judge you as you are judging others.
Comment by bassplaya26 | May 12, 2008
Bassplaya26
You said:
“This is why the world hates the church. You are why the world hates the church.”
Well, Jesus said we would be hated because of him. We preach his truth, which is not only love but that we are sinners in need of a Savior. Without Jesus Christ, there is not a relationship with God. I’m sure you know all that, but just so you understand, that as a Christian, we will be persecuted and hated for our faith, NOT embraced for it.
Why? Because people love their egos more than submission to the truth.
Here’s a good link to read before/if you comment back to me. It will only take a few minutes of your time.
There is a clear and distinct that I would like to make between the two types of hate that we are referring too. It is a similar distinction that is found between condemnation and conviction. Since you sound like a well-versed individual with the Christian faith, I am sure you are aware, but let me fill everyone else in. Condemnation is of the devil, Conviction is of God. Both make you aware of your sin, but the difference is condemnation pushes you away from God, and conviction pulls you towards him. Condemnation is what the devil does to you every time you sin, what he puts on your when you try to go to God, and he reminds you of your sins and tells you that you are not worthy of his love. Conviction pulls you towards repentance and tells you that despite the fact you sin there is forgiveness.
The type of hate I was referring to, is the hate for the false, the hate for the judgemental nature, the hate for the religion (not relationship) that is found in the dry dead churches. The hate for those who judge outward appearance, the hate for those who judge failures, who do not accept openly, loving, those who are outcasts from society as Jesus did all through the scriptures. The world know what Jesus should look like, and when shown the genuine article often-times openly embrace the church, but strongly reject the false and dry religious establishment – as we see that Jesus did. Jesus, every time he was confronted with the religious establishments and doctrines would openly mock and rebuke them. The hate you were referring to is the hate the world gets when they refuse to turn from their sin and are constantly reminded through our righteousness how they are sinful. Those are the ones who hate us because we are right, who hate us because we are clean, who hate us because we love them despite what they do to us, that we bless those curse us and pray for those who persecute us. That is why they should hate us, not because we judge them, not because we proudly set ourselves above them with our noses held high, because we are so much more ‘righteous.’
I hate self-righteous religion and cannot stand it when people are falsely judged. I am not at all mad at you, you were simply making a good point off of what you thought I said, but it does make my spirit incredibly angry when judgements like the one above at Todd’s laughter are stated, as if their laughter does reflect God, and his does not. Let God judge others, and let vengeance be the Lords. You watch yourself, and judge yourself to be pure, not others.
Comment by bassplaya26 | May 12, 2008
Todd Bentley is from Canada, no? If so, why does he sound like he’s from the American South? Fake, fake, fake, fake, fake. As for the laughter, it sounds forced.
I’m personally not afraid of allegations of “blasphemy” or “touch not mine anointed” or judging. If people calling themselves ministers are out there fleecing the flock, shouldn’t they be exposed? Why is it that it almost always has to be the secular people who do the exposing, and not the church? It’s because the pew sitters have been cowed into submission by their leadership with all this talk of “don’t cross God or you’ll be in big trouble!”
Let’s be real here for a minute, folks: these healing services are big money. There’s lots of power and prestige going round for being involved in this latest “move.” That’s more than enough reason to expect fakery and exaggeration and bombastic talk from the ministers.
I don’t care if Todd Bentley has tattoos or piercings (but Todd, if you’re reading this, that piercing just below your lip is gonna damage your bottom teeth and you’re going to be hitting the tattoo laser removal doctor in 10 years). His doctrine isn’t annoying to me until it steps outside the door of his church and impacts my life outside, which it hasn’t done–YET.
But where I am concerned is that Todd and friends may be setting a lot of people up for disillusionment. I remember the Brownsville revival back in the 1990s made a lot of claims but didn’t fulfill them, and it ended up all pretty much crumbling to dust. (cf these articles which do not paint a very pretty picture: http://www.rickross.com/groups/brownsville.html ). I recall how people with nothing would drive to Florida hoping for something, and ending up even more broke than they were, and the Brownsville people did not take any responsibility for what they were doing, but instead shuffled these people off on the social services system of Pensacola. I saw a guy on God TV about 10 days ago saying that he’d come from Georgia because he’d gotten a healing in his back but that he and his family had no money and I see the same thing happening all over again.
You can’t just get people there out in Lakeland, FL, promise them the world, and then send them away with good feelings and supposed healings that wear off. As a diabetic, I have to wonder how many people will throw away their medicine and be harmed because they think they’re healed, without going to their doctors first? Remember that clip Miriam just put up the other day from one of Morris Cerullo’s healing rallies: the little girl died two months later. She was not healed. And you know, nobody can prove (yet) that they’ve been healed in these Todd Bentley rallies.
This is a lot of words just to basically say there is so much here, so much room for abuse that to just push it off and say God will take care of it is abidicating our responsibility as *human beings* to make sure our fellow man doesn’t get ripped off. Think about it!
Comment by cukes | May 12, 2008
Bassplaya26,
I agree with a lot of what you say. I can’t stand self-righteousness either. But we have to understand where to draw the line between helpful correction/warning and self-righteous/I’m holier than you and never mess up attitude.
I feel the “Judge not lest ye be judged” statement has been used to shrug off laziness and sensitivity in the church. ‘Accountability’ has become a foreign word. I say this from experience. I used to use that statement to shield myself from correction…not an actual judgement, even though I perceived it that way. When in actuality I was just being a child and not wanting to accept the fact that I was wrong and own up to it.
When it comes to the outside world hating the church and having bitterness towards it, well we both know it is the hypocracy…but mainly the Money Changer Evangelist on T.V. They see it for what it is and it’s people trying to buy God, buy blessings, buy favortism, buy self-righteousness or super spirituality. And when God doesn’t deliver to these wolve’s followers it just leads the outside world to point at us and laugh. We are a joke. Christianity is considered a crutch for weak people. And unsaved people that value their integrity shiver at the thought of being Christians just from this example alone.
I’ve known a bunch of atheist and my boyfriend was an atheist for 35 years and I had to deal with his mocking at times until he recently became saved. He was accepting of my faith but didn’t understand a lot of the hypocracy. Atheists Agnostics and people of other faiths have problems with Christianity’s ’say one thing and do another’ policy. You talk about Christ’s love yet you shun people that don’t dress like you, walk like you, talk like you, think like you. Understandable, but they also scoffed at our lack of holding evangelist crooks accountable and seeing Christians talk about being saved yet still act like the unbelievers they looked down on.
So, I understand that critiquing Todd Bentley might rub you wrong, but how does laughing like a maniac, crawling on the ground, looking drunk on stage, shaking like he was going through alcohol withdrawal bring any attention to God? Where in this performance does it make me go…OH I’m a sinner and need Jesus Christ in my life to save me from my sins. He might do the typical alter call at the end, but this performance reeks of shameless self promotion.
No this outpouring…it only brings attention to TODD and how his actions might make him ‘look’ Holy or ‘closer’ to God.
As a teacher on T.V., as much as we don’t like to admit it…appearances are everything. That’s why he has a shaved head, goatee, tatoos…so he can appeal to a younger audience and be accepted. Not saying I have anything against those items, but his job is about perception and appearances so he better make his ideas and statements very clear.
He was not clear to me, he was all over the place like a ADHD two year old. Put it this way, if he was doing secular seminars…I wouldn’t hire him to host crap.
There isn’t any judgement going on…he is a leader and biblically, he is to be tested and weighed against scripture. The moment he stepped in front of the camera he opened his ministry up to testing.
Thanks for the dialogue by the way. I enjoy discussing differing viewpoints.
Wow, I don’t think I’ve ever seen something so manufactured. Interesting how he also claims that he couldn’t have put all this together himself but we know it’s with the help of Bob and all the other Latter Rain fellas.
Comment by Jeremy Huser | May 13, 2008
Religious folk are bound to hate this. All these ‘fake’ people, set up and paid to say they have somehow lost their skin cancer, even a Messianic Rabbi (Monday 19th May) that claims he can move his paralysed neck and arm ( did they find him in the dole queue?) Some will say almost anything rather than accept that Jesus moves outside their traditions and sensibilities.
Comment by Roger Wilcox | May 20, 2008
Wow, did this person read the bible… do not judge lest not you be judged. Several people from our church have gone and come back, they, at least 30, have all said the presence of god is so thick there you can actually feel it. I have watched online and felt the presence of the holy spirit. Sounds like this person, is it another Paula, is not that in touch with the holy spirit themselves. Try getting baptized in the holy spirit and maybe he will talk to you too. Don’t judge…. that is what Jesus says repeatedly. I am offended and appalled.
Comment by Paula2 | May 21, 2008
Only one thing to say…it’s obvious that YOU have never experienced the annointing of the holy spirit. Stop hatefully judging and search to know the Lord’s presence for yourself. Did God appoint you to be the keeper and overseer of the saints? Go get some!!!!!
Comment by Rob in Switzerland | May 22, 2008
Question to all, what exactly is the anointing? Now please only biblical exegesis here, no leaning on mans understanding. Because it really doesn’t matter what you or I think, but what does the bible say the anointing is? Or do we want to run and hide and have no accountability as children of God. Do we want to run and hide under the banner of “Judge not lest you be judged”? Because the scriptures have much to say about judging within the body of Christ. And so likewise I believe the Bible has much to say about the anointing as well.
Comment by DonM | May 22, 2008
you do not know what you are even talking about I was at the church in lake land fl. I felt GODS anointed hands. our church teaches the same anointed power as TOD. and some times when GOD hits you.You may do things that you would never do in the flesh. Maybe you need to let GOD ZAP YOU on the floor. GOD moves through TOD it is not TOD doing it.It is GODS work and TOD will tell you the same thing. READ THE BIBLE ACTS IT WILL TELL YOU ABOUT THE PROMISE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. and it say in the word not to judge or you will be judged.have you ever read the BIBLE? I will pray for you and all the others like you because JESUS is coming soon he wants all to come to HIM. You just have to ask and take a DRINK of the LIVING WATER IT IS FREE.The only thing that is free and his name is JESUS CHRIST.
Comment by penny silberg | May 27, 2008
Guess if you shake your head around hard like that, yeah, you’re gonna see visions…
Reminds me of Islamic Whirling Dervishes….
laura
Comment by laura | May 27, 2008
I just read the saddest testimony on Strom’s website. A Pastor Larry Reed from Washington State had terminal bone cancer. He went to Lakeland last week, and Mr. Bentley “Bammed” him. He struggled out of his wheelchair and cheered with the crowd as Mr. Bentley proclaimed him healed. He died yesterday.
Comment by cheryl | May 27, 2008
Cheryl
They will say it is Larry’s fault for not having enough faith.
Comment by endtimespropheticwords | May 27, 2008
I read all the comments about people judging what they believe to be or not be “of God” from this video. There have been other reports of similar things that happened in churches over the last decade. Reports of an entire congregation being layed out on the floor simultaneously; people being healed without ever being publicly prayed-for; services in which people came in broke, worshiping God with the church and walking out with money in their pockets without anyone physically giving them money; worship services where the worship became so intimate that a cloud of smoke appeared on the stage and everyone close by fell on their faces. Reports of gold dust, or oil saturation, of precious gems of every color and size being found on the floor after worship. Here we have reports of the dead being raised in America - a nation with so many Believers yet, the same nation with so much unbelief. Jesus said if the dead are raised and the demons are being cast out, would that be God or Satan? Can Satan cast out Satan?
True, we are only human. In every prophetic utterance, in every act we do in the Lord, there will always be a percentage of flesh. We look through a glass darkly; we do not know the whole truth. Sometimes, ministers simply miss it.
Be quick to listen, slow to judge and slow to anger. God Himself is “Compassionate and Gracious, Slow to anger, abounding in Mercy and Truth; who keeps Lovingkindness for thousands, who Forgives iniquity, transgression and sin…” (Exodus 34:5-7)
Paul was told there was a certain man who was preaching the Gospel who was not from the Apostles. Paul did not tell that man to stop preaching, he replied instead that Christ was being preached.
This pastor may be unorthodox and may be doing things which seem strange or fake. Like someone commented earlier, we are to judge them by their fruits, not by outward appearances, because the Lord looks at the heart.
Comment by david | May 29, 2008
You know what, to all of this I have to say something, if only to bring revelation and correction from the Lord. I too was very skeptical and taken aback by the revival in Lakeland, until I stopped trying to see what everyone else thought and got on my face before God and waited on Him. Do you know what He said…He took me to scriptures that showed how He is God and He can do whatever He pleases and through whomever He pleases. He once spoke through a donkey, but today..I bet that would be unfathomable. Over and over again the Holy Spirit would repeat to me that a prophet is not welcome, and I understand why. You see I did not know the Lord coming up so I have never seen God move this way or any way charismatically, so when I did come to Christ I was a little intrigued by how the Lord works. Instead of taking anyones word for anything, I always sought things out for myself, because I found out that everyone has an opinion, but God’s word is truth and dispells darkness and lies. The word tells us that there will be falso prophets and false teachers..and it puts it this way ” Then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgement, and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries, whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord. But these, like natural brute beasts make to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. (2 Pet. 2:9-13)
So, in saying all of that, I would question if it is because you haven’t experienced this for yourselves by just going to this and seeing, or even for the one who said she felt like she was actually given demons from the laying on of hands…I think the enemy can also bind us because of misunderstanding things. As I said, I didn’t come up in all of this and have sought things out for myself. After laying on my face before God and things that I have experienced supernaturally myself and having actually been tormented before by demons and encounters thereof…I would say be very careful when speaking of God’s annointed. If it is not God, it will fall, but if it is this fruit will remain. I was watching on Wednesday night which was the 28th of May and I needed direction from the Lord and the confirmation of scripture and words that my husband and I have been given over the past 3 years were spoken through not just Todd but someone else on stage. We really do need to be careful that we operate in love and not schism and backbiting without speaking to those we question face to face first. I can truly say I love you all through the love that the Lord has so put in my heart and pray for spiritual awakening in the nations and in the church today!
Comment by Shannon | May 30, 2008
Also, as for the man who passed away after the meeting of him being healed…wouldn’t you say that our ultimate healing is passing from this life into heaven itself? It has nothing to do with whether or not he believed..I bet he did…you know what..it could have been his time to see the Lord and others were trying to keep him here. I don’t think we should use stuff like this for skeptism..just watch the movement and let God do what God always does…and that is be in control!
Comment by Shannon | May 30, 2008
Get alone with God, draw a circle around yourself and seek His face and see what happens. If you do this every day with a sincere heart, the Holy Ghost will fill you to overflowing and you can have times of refreshing as well. You may even laugh! The Joy of the Lord is our strength. Ask God to shine His spotlight on you to reveal any unclean thing in you and ask Him to remove it. Ask Him to help you to surrender totally to His will so you can be a BLESSING to others! One way to find out what is fake, EXPERIENCE WHAT IS REAL! Pray ye one for another and love one another. By this the world will know that we are His disciples, that we have love one for another. John 13:35 “By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.” Shannon put the icing on the cake.
Comment by patty | May 30, 2008
You mean cast a circle - what ya doing practising witchcraft Patty?
Comment by endtimespropheticwords | May 30, 2008
To the last comment about what Patty said….let me share something with you. Commenting like that toward a fellow believer because you don’t agree is just wrong. Casting a circle…what…that is not what she said and it totally taken out of context which is pretty much what has been happening with all of this. Stop the mouths…with our mouths we bless God and curse others because we can’t bridle our tongues. Just a quick bit of info as well…when we went on a missions trip over seas in England..we prayed around where we would be doing street ministry because that is called placing a hedge of protection around our borders, because where our feet tread is ground taken for the Lord. There is so much witchcraft there and if you don’t understand what you are dealing with..you can be so ignorant to it and not even realize it. I want you to know that we prayed where God said and how He said and there was a witch who came over to where we were and tried to curse us, but the amazing thing about it was…she would not cross into the circle we prayed (hedge) around our stuff. Don’t tell me that the Lord won’t protect you or cover you in that way when you have never had to deal with that before personally. Those demons bound in that woman and what she was apart of, would not cross over because of the blood we prayed over our area. There is power in the blood…do we believe that..or do we just sing it and quote it because it sounds good? I pray we all come to the realization that there are mysteries and things of God that we can’t fathom or understand and thank God for the Holy Spirit and His comfort and guidance…which can only be quenched when we choose to disobey or speak evil of how He works. If you disagree with someone..take it to God before you speak and make sure you dig in and look it up for yourself..because the last thing you want to do is blaspheme the Holy Spirit and how He works. Jesus didn’t say it if He didn’t mean it!
Love you all In His Precious Name! May His grace and His love abound in each of you and may His blessings overtake you!
Comment by Shannon | June 2, 2008
Dear Saints,
God Offends the mind to reveal the heart. Guard yr mouth & guard your heart for fm out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh! For by your words you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned!! I pray the devil will not hold you captive to do his works!!! (Matt12:35-37) But I say to you that for every IDLE word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment!! Watch out for the Hell fire!!!
Comment by Kara Yeo KM | June 2, 2008
Shannon: I would like to know where in the bible it says to draw a circle around yourself. And why should you, if indeed your under the blood of Christ Jesus? I got news for you, your victory in Jesus was fulfilled over two thousand years ago on the cross, for those who were predestined to become the sons of God! Predestined meaning God knows your choice before you were even thought of. He knew it before the foundations of the world.
You don’t need a circle, just faith in the FINISHED work of Jesus and him crucified! But you did give me something to research, for I have not found any new testament scripture that backs that circle thing up. Your hedge of protection is what Jesus has already done, not what you or any act you can do, except believing and trusting in JESUS. You more than likely could have built a straw hat for protection, it was your faith in Jesus that done it anyway, if indeed your telling the truth. Don’t think the circle had anything to do with it, for then you would be trusting in your works, and that would actually be a deceptive act on satan’s part to get you to focus your faith on other than Jesus and him crucified. So my advice to you would be to stop what your doing, and stay on faith in Christ Jesus alone! See where I’m coming from here? You get all caught up into thinking the circle had something to do with it, then next thing is that’s where your focus will be in the long run, and that is called spiritual adultery. Anything other than FAITH in JESUS and JESUS alone is spiritual adultery, and will ultimately deceive you into a bondage of works, which is none other but from Satan. Which then is witchcraft!
Comment by Ron | June 2, 2008
Bassplaya,Thank you for talking about what I call “spiritual terrorism”,trying to frighten us into silence with threats of committing the unforgivable sin being struck dead.us and our children being cursed(thank you,Benny Hinn),Touch not God’s anointed(arent all true Christians sealed with God’s Holy Spirit?)Its all a big smoke screen for phonies,charlatans.and false prophets to hide behind!I was territied for 3 years,because an Akron,Ohio faith healer said that if anyone did not accept his miracles as true.THEY HAD BLASPHEMED THE HOLY SPIRIT!!He said the same ws true for Christians,if they denied the validity of his miracles,they were now eternally damned,without any hope of forgiveness.Because I have Obsession-compulsion disorder,I could not stop thinking about what he said,and I became so terribly frightened that I couldnt sleep,eat,nearly had a nervous breakdown.People live in fear of these “ministers”.I no longer accept anything without checking it out,questioning it,comparing it to what is in the Bible,demanding to see proof…The way Todd Bentley looks doesnt really bother me,its the crazy things he is saying,BEWARE!
I have personally known of Christians ending up in the mental hospital,living for years feeling damned,and even committing suicide,because they have been told by some false leader that they had “blasphemed the Spirit”Do you think for one minutr that leaders like that care what those kind of threats do to people who are fragile,or sensitive,or suffer from a mental illness?Lives have been deatroyed by yhis sort of thing.My own dear Mother believed for 27 years that she had committed the unpardonable sin.She is a joyous Christian now,but she went through 27 years of PURE HELL.years she can never get back.Call us what you will,we are telling the truth about Todd Bentley!!!
Alease: I pray that you may be released from your torment, in Jesus’ name.
Comment by endtimespropheticwords | June 2, 2008
Paul said regarding Christians in 1Corintians 5:11-12,
“But now I am writing you that YOU MUST NOT ASSOCIATE with anyone who CALLS HIMSELF A BROTHER but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? ARE YOU NOT TO JUDGE THOSE INSIDE? God will judge those outside. ‘Expel the wicked man from among you.’” (emphasis mine).
Is not Todd Bentley greedy? Swindler? Is not Paul Cain a drunkard and sexually immoral, an homosexual? Not only that, are they both liars too? Why are people still associating with them?
Not only we should expose them, we must EXPEL THEM!
Comment by Erik U. | June 2, 2008
Okay, I do see your point about the circle thing…I just know that where we were and with the fact that we were dealing with a lot of witchcraft in London, that the woman would not cross over. That is why I said there had to be something to it. I may be wrong, but I just know that I love the Lord and I don’t think the Holy Spirit will lead me astray. I just pray we all come to the truth, but you are right, our faith in Christ and who He is, is enough. I just still think that when God said He would pour out His spirit upon all flesh and that when Jesus said we would do more than the works the disciples did then…what would you say He meant by more? I do not want to get caught up in calling anyone anything…I think we all have valid points, so just tell me what you think without anyone else on here getting angry, because behind some of these statements..I can feel so much anger about being right. I don’t care about being right..I just think we should get along. Wouldn’t you all say this is exactly why people of the world do not want anything to do with Christians? I mean we can’t even agree to disagree…what happened to the love of Christ abounding in our hearts…when I say without knowing any of you that I love you…I can say that with a pure heart, because of Christ love within me! Be blessed!
Comment by Shannon | June 3, 2008
“God said He would pour out His spirit upon all flesh and that when Jesus said we would do more than the works the disciples did then…what would you say He meant by more?”
Shannon,
More works meaning more in number. If you interpret that verse to mean more spectacular works than how could that be correct? How much more spectacular can you get than raising the dead?
Comment by Mary B | June 3, 2008
Shannon: I’m glad I was able to help you to see what drawing a circle thing was really all about. And if I my let me profound even more on it a bit, to make it even more clear. Just suppose, you seen a witch do that, and yes there are those who claim to be a witches. So seeing a witch did draw a circle that not knowing God where would you suppose that came from? The only thing that you can do to get saved is faith in Jesus, so it is the same faith that you use for all things, I mean ALL, not angels, not works, not acts. Works do come along with your faith, but those works must be biblical, or else your not trusting the one in the bible, but actually another Jesus, for it is by the Jesus in the bible you have placed your trust in.
But whatever you do, and it’s not in the bible then your out of the ball park. God sets boundaries, for the bible says straight and narrow is the path that leads to life, NOT wide is the way that leads to life. Life is in the faith you have in Jesus, so you must stay within the boundaries that God has set. And when people get all caught up in other things, even though you see some of those things in the bible, the FINISHED work of Jesus is where are focus should be. The bible didn’t call it FINISHED for nothing, in other words COMPLETE, DONE, FINISHED, if you add to that or take away from what JESUS already has done, then you have now shifted your faith else where, and are saying JESUS FINISHED work wasn’t enough. You can’t even put your trust in experiences, I have had many experiences but most where from a personal walk with God, not by anything I have or could have done.
This is also why I’m very careful of those who claim things, because Satan then can come in as a angel of light, and deceive. And he does that, to steal your faith, for even he knows the cross of Christ is a finished work. So he comes by and adds to it, or takes away from it, the boundaries that God has set, the CROSS OF CHRIST THE FINISHED WORK!
Comment by Ron | June 4, 2008
I do like these discussion forums because I think it is a good thing for us all to gain insight from others. Again, though, I do say, we should be operating in love if we are in Christ. The greatest commandments were to love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself. I just wish the tone behind some of the comments..not all of them…would be a love bearing comment, the truth spoken in love is not tearing one another down, but encouraging and building each other up. I can only believe and have faith that God, no matter what, is in control and His hand is all powerful and I think that if this is not of God…He can expose it…we don’t have to. He is all knowing and sometimes when I have thought I knew…guess what…He knew better. Let’s just be united in Christ and get along. I don’t feel like we should all be arguing the word of God. God bless you all!
Comment by Shannon | June 5, 2008
Shannon,
concerning this statement you posted:
Also, as for the man who passed away after the meeting of him being healed…wouldn’t you say that our ultimate healing is passing from this life into heaven itself? It has nothing to do with whether or not he believed..I bet he did…you know what..it could have been his time to see the Lord and others were trying to keep him here. I don’t think we should use stuff like this for skeptism..just watch the movement and let God do what God always does…and that is be in control!
Comment by Shannon | May 30, 2008
I had a similar experience with my mom, I had been praying for healing for her and she died and i was devastated,confused and dissappointed, then the Lord reminded me that she was healed in the ultimate sense, she was not sick anymore and never would be again. What could be better for her. I have great peace about it now.
Comment by kerry | June 6, 2008
I had heard nothing about Todd Bentley until recently. I happened to be watching one of his “shows” and felt very uneasy about the whole thing. I had no preconceived ideas about him, as I had never heard of him before. The thing that struck me, was that it reminded me very much of a hypnotist show I had been to many years ago, before becoming a Christian. Todd Bentley is constantly moving his hands around, tapping and touching those he is supposed to be healing (this is something the stage hypnotist also do). Also, when they “fall” in the spirit, it seems to be identical to how a show hypnotist makes his stage guests fall. I felt so uneasy about him, that I felt I needed to do some more research. I came across this site and agree with many of the comments. Does anyone know about hypnotism? Is this possibly a technique that he is using? One thing I have noticed, is that people are either emotionless, or extreme in their behaviour (usually in a very weird and unsettling way). Again, the stage hypnotist had his guests behaving in very bizarre ways. Whislt the audience laughed at their antics, the other guests he had hypnotised, were completely emotionless.
With regards to his tatoos. He has become tatooed only after becoming a Christian. Why would he feel the need to get so many? I have no problem with those who already had tatoos before becoming a Christian. Nor would I personally judge someone who had the odd tatoo as a Christian. However, what would you think if your Pastor, husband or Christian friend suddenly started tatooing most of his/her own body. Why would he feel the need? What is the purpose? Why is it necessary? People say that we should not judge, however, are we to never challenge anything any more? Are we so weak and lame and scared to dare to ask any questions, for fear of being wrong, or judgmental? Who wants us to be fearful? Who wants us to silence us and keep us quiet, submissive and weak? We should be able to ask with boldness as well as in love? We should be able to test, weigh and challenge anything that we believe is not of God. It is very odd and I make no apologies for saying it, that this man’s words, actions and beliefs are not in agreement with scripture. In my humble opinion, he is not who he claims to be. It would be easy for me to be fearful and not to speak out by what my conscience is telling me. However, I shall not be bound by fear. If I am wrong, then may God forgive me and show me that I am wrong. If I am right, then may God continue to open the eyes and ears of all those who are blindly following and accepting this false prophet and his teachings.
Comment by Steph | June 9, 2008
Steph - you have hit the nail on the head, that is exactly what he is doing, as with the hyped up worship and all that. I am not against worship, but it can be used to get people hyped up when it is overlong and repetive.
Comment by endtimespropheticwords | June 9, 2008
BTW, can you elaborate a bit more on the hand movements and the tapping?
Comment by endtimespropheticwords | June 9, 2008
Hi, I do not profess to be any kind of expert in hypnosis at all. My knowledge is limited. However, with regards to stage hypnotism, the hypnotist was able to hypnotise most (but not all) of his volunteers. This was done be touching and tapping certain places on their neck, head, hands and arms. I remember thinking how amazing it was and how easily someone could be hypnotised. The things that these people did were outrageously funny and the sort of thing they would never do in “real life”. I would never go to see a show now though, as I do not believe is it of God. Even before becoming a Christian, I realised that hypnotism was very real and powerful; as well as the possibility that it could easily be used for more sinister or dishonourable purposes.
I understand that one to one hypnotism is different. Again, I understand that they use certain points on the body to hypnotise, as well as making the person feel very relaxed and comfortable prior to the hypnotism. The following statement is taken from the innersanctum.com website. It is explaining what the hypnotist does “Then I play relaxing music and help you go into hypnosis in a number of ways, through certain hypnotic touch points (i.e. the shoulders, top of head, and hands).”
Again, I have no idea how they do the actual hypnosis and don’t particularly want to delve too deep into this area, as I have already said, I think it is not of God. I do believe though, that there will be many hypnotists who believe that they are genuinely helping many people. Also, I am sure that many do it with a good motive. I have known people to have had hypnotism, it has seemed to work for them, for example to relieve pain, or overcome fears. They all said it was a very positive, relaxing and uplifting experience.
I would be really interested if anyone had more understanding of hypnotism, and could see any similarities at all between Todd Bentley and his healings and hypnotism. Watch him closely (and some of the people who are behind the person who is being healed). You will see how he seems to use the teqnique that I have described. Again, if I am wrong, then please disregard anything I have said.
Comment by Steph | June 11, 2008
Please take a look at this video on utube. I’m not sure if you will get it as a hyperlinklink. If you are unable to access it, please do a search on: Todd bentley exploding tumour. Does anyone really believe that God would call him to do any of these things? Also, it is very disturbing that anyone finds what he is saying remotely funny.
Steph: I have read a couple of books on hypnotism (by hypnotists) and they both say the same thing - there is no such thing as what it is commonly thought to be. People will do what they want to do because they want to or their are other subliminal messages and other manipulation to point them that way.
Comment by endtimespropheticwords | June 11, 2008
It is not about what goes on onstage, or whether or not you believe that todd bently is a perfect man of god. it has everything to do with what is going on with the people being affected. i’ve been to the revival and i will tell you personally that god is there and he is moving mightly in the hearts of every man and woman and child that enters. revival starts with the people who are hungry and thirsty for god, not with what you think of the evangelists. maybe he laughs too hard for you, or maybe when the spirit of god touches him you think he’s crazy, but you’re focusing on man, focus on god and what he is doing in florida. millions are accepting the lord, millions are being healed. i can tell you one thing, amazing changes have taken place in my life since i’ve come back from lakeland and that should be all that matters. even if he’s thinking of himself and not god, who are we to judge him? we have all fallen short of the glory of god. for once i’d like to see christians come together for god and not pick apart every little thing wrong such as his laugh or the little things he does. like todd bently says in the beginning of this same video “it’s all about jesus” stop looking to todd bently and look towards the center of lakelands revival, the lord jesus christ. maybe then you will begin to laugh in a different way, and feel the touch from heaven so much you cant stand up. god bless everyone.
Comment by megan | June 16, 2008
The real test is over time. In 6 months how much have the lives continued to change, how many people are still healed after being home a while?
We are supposed to speak the truth in love. Truth must prevail. If the concerns and questions of people are unwarranted, time will reveal that as well. There is the old expression “Look before you leap.” There is wisdom in that.
Comment by truby | June 16, 2008
The bible says not to judge unrighteously, the judgement that you judge with will be the same judgement done to you. I say it is a must to judge everything to see if it is of God or not. Don’t be afraid to judge if you understand the word of the lord. People like Todd have come and gone before, too bad he is distracting the laborers from the work of the great commission. The gospel does not appear in the messages, no talk of sin,judgement to come, repentance, being born again, no talk of trusting in the finished work of the cross, that Jesus had to suffer and be nailed to the cross, that he paid for our sins in the most humiliating way imaginable; naked and thirsty and beat to a pulp for us. Where is the preaching to call on the savior to save us from the sin that is made so real and sin becoming very sinful? Let those who seek after a sign see the sign of the cross!
Comment by ray | June 18, 2008
Steve - i totally agree im also disturbed by “a drunken glory” again where is it that the Holy Spirit makes us drunk? please dont say acts 2- note not all those people thought they were drunk! also people were amazed, when i see someone drunk in the “spirit” all u get is stuper and people who cant put 2 sentences together, Hmmmmm! Fruit of the Holy Spirit seems missing. Paul spoke in the power of the Spirit in much fear and trembling, im sure it didnt involve any such behaviour as we see so often in these churches.
Also comment “if you are a leader” come! why so much focus on leaders, sounds like a battle strategy, see how in war u win when u take out the leader!
Comment by Stephen Campbell | June 18, 2008
This guy is an idiot and is not a man of God.
Comment by Amy | June 20, 2008
Mark 9:39-40 “Teacher” said John, “we saw a man driving out demons on your name & we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.” “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us.” Philippians 1-18 But what does it matter? The imporatnat thing is that in everyway, whether from false motive or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.
Comment by Debi | June 22, 2008
Jesus is real! He is Alive ! He is working to heal and change many lives ! Just let God move and use whomever he wants. Remember Todd is human.He is not perfect.But he is
preaching repentence.Let people get saved! Stop picking apart everything!
Comment by Julie | June 28, 2008
Julie,
Remember Todd is human.He is not perfect.
Yes, we are all human and imperfect. However, Todd lies to cover lies and has prophesied falsely. Plus, he believes we can command Heaven. From the Elijah List:
“We’re going to make a demand on Heaven and we’re going to see God’s justice this year, and we’re going to see Him bring it forth out of His Kingdom.”
But he is preaching repentence.
If you could point me to an audio/video clip of this, that would be great! I’ve not heard this at all.
Comment by Lee | June 29, 2008
To Steph and Miriam,
Sorry this is a bit late – I wanted to reply to your comments (eg numbers 34, 36, and 37) on hypnotism.
I have researched hypnosis quite a bit. To the best of my knowledge, you cannot hypnotise someone just by touching or tapping them. I’ve haven’t read anything that suggests this. But touch can certainly play a part in the hypnotic process alongside other stimuli (usually verbal). And if someone is in an altered state of consciousness or mild trance, then touching their head can indeed cause them to fall over.
My research has categorically revealed that what is happening at the meetings in Lakeland (and many other so-called revivals) is partly the result of mass hypnosis. Lots of other people feel the same.
Steph, here are two excellent posts by Miriam on this subject:
The most interesting thing that I have discovered is that hypnotic states cause the body to release endorphins, powerful hormones that act in a similar way to opiates (eg heroin), producing pain relief and feelings of euphoria. It’s the same effect that you get after going to the gym. This explains the short-term “healings” – people’s pain goes away and they feel good, so they believe they’ve been healed, but in reality there is no physical change to their body and their conditions are the same. As an example, some people will use a wheelchair not because they are actually unable to walk, but because they’re in so much pain when they do. They go to a revival meeting, experience an endorphin high, and might be able to get up, walk, run, or dance in front of everyone. Hey presto, a miracle. But a few hours later, the effects wear off, the pain returns, but no-one’s around to see their disappointment when they discover they’ve lost their “healing”. This could explain why they keep coming back! Also, I guess the effects of endorphins (like opiates) can be addictive, again causing people to return.
Actual physical problems are not affected so someone with, for example, a spinal cord injury will not be able to walk again.
I hope you can see how the above explains Lakeland, etc, perfectly. It also fits in with the complete lack of medical verification. But it is blasphemy to call such psychological phenomena “divine healing”
I did say that hypnosis was part of the explanation for Lakeland. The other part is scary – I think there is a dark side to what’s going on.
In my view, some of the phenomena are too extreme to be just the result of hypnosis (eg the wild convulsions, Stacey Campbell’s head shaking, etc). They also happen in other situations where there isn’t a skilled manipulative speaker or crowd of emotionally pumped-up people. I am rapidly coming to the frightening conclusion that there are demonic spirits at work that can be passed on, including by touch.
So I would advise avoiding this false “revival” at all costs (at Lakeland and anywhere else in the world). The “impartation” you will get is likely to be a demon.
I think the mission of these evil spirits is quite subtle. They do make people feel good, excited, and on fire for God. But they also cause people to seek excitement rather than the truth, and they open people up to the deception of false teachers. Eventually, those they afflict become consumed and burnt out, losing their faith, falling into major error, or in some cases becoming mentally ill.
I’d be interested to know whether other people share my views here. They are speculative, but they fit in with what I’ve seen and heard.
Comment by AnotherSceptic | July 9, 2008
anothersceptic,
While I have very limited experience with this I completely agree with everything you are saying. I suspect that two of my inlaws who are having mental illness issues may have had an impartation. They are both suffering from unexplained anxiety. I might be wrong but they are both being expossed to false teaching of the Lakeland kind.
Unfortunately at this point in time they are not interested in connecting the dots.
Comment by Mary B. | July 9, 2008
Mary, thanks for your comment. I have just prayed for your inlaws. The other thing that came to mind is that mental illness doesn’t always come directly from the demons, it can come from the internal conflict that results from living in the fantasy land of these false teachers. For example, you believe that you’ve been healed but then your illness comes back, and you can’t reconcile the two, because you’ve been brainwashed into believing that you are healed. This is a recipe for a mental breakdown.
End Times Visions and Christian prophecy for the church and for the nations from a servant of God called to speak God’s word (Miriam Franklin): bringing prophecies and prophetic words of revelation, warning of End Times apostasy and lukewarm Christianity, and trying to bring people’s hearts, minds and souls back to the Lord their God. For statement of faith see above link. Please note that all comments on this site are moderated, meaning that there will be some delay between you posting your comment, and it appearing live on the site. If you wish to contact me personally, please post a comment in the normal way but mark it at the top clearly ‘for your eyes only’ and only I will see it. EVEN though you see it on screen as posted, it will not be live and visable to others. Thank you and God bless you.
I grew up in a church that went through the Toronto Blessing and Brownsville Revival and that church recently sent its youth pastor down to Lakeland to “bring the glory back.”
Having lived through it, and seeing it happen again I am troubled.
Arounf the 5:25 mark he says he told God at any price he would pay it to live in this glory. Everytime I hear something like that or see churches that “take back the glory” and stay in it for months and years, I think about the transfiguration, when Jesus revealed His Glory to Peter, James and John and Peter said “Let’s stay here and build 3 temples” and what does the Bible say it says “Peter didn’t know what he was atlking about.”
Then I think of Isaiah when he is in the presence of God and what does he do. He doesn’t say “Let me stay here” he sayd “Here I am I will go for you.”
What happened to Jesus and the Disciples after God’s glory was revealed. They got sent right back into the battle when they confronted a demon possed boy.
I am very wary of any “move” of the spirit that gathers people to experience it and stay in it.
lol, wait a second, so you’re judging the way he’s laughing? you’re saying he’s not of God because you don’t like the way he laughs…wow, a new low. What if someone said you weren’t of God because of the way you laughed? I thought I read somewhere that we were supposed to judge a tree by it’s fruits. I thought I read somewhere that God judges the heart, not the outward actions. And while we are on the subject, what have you done that makes you worthy to judge his ministry? Furthermore, isn’t it blasphemy if you call something of God, to be something of the devil? Now you may think you’re right, but what if you’re not? If you’re wrong, You just committed blasphemy against the holy spirit, which according to the scriptures is unforgivable. If he’s wrong and leading people astray, God can topple him, he created everything, I’m sure he can bring the downfall of one man. I’m not going to worry about what he says wrong, or if he laughs wrong. I’m gonna pray for the guy, he seems to be the only one doing anything for God these days that isn’t just judging other people. If he’s doing wrong, or if he’s incorrect, I still believe he’s sincere. I am going to pray that God keeps him in line, that God helps him stay pure, because at least he’s trying to do something. You are so hypocritical and judgemental it makes me sick. This is why the world hates the church. You are why the world hates the church. I pray God spares your lives, and doesn’t judge you as you are judging others.
Bassplaya26
You said:
“This is why the world hates the church. You are why the world hates the church.”
Well, Jesus said we would be hated because of him. We preach his truth, which is not only love but that we are sinners in need of a Savior. Without Jesus Christ, there is not a relationship with God. I’m sure you know all that, but just so you understand, that as a Christian, we will be persecuted and hated for our faith, NOT embraced for it.
Why? Because people love their egos more than submission to the truth.
Here’s a good link to read before/if you comment back to me. It will only take a few minutes of your time.
http://www.barr-family.com/godsword/how-jesus-was-hated.htm
There is a clear and distinct that I would like to make between the two types of hate that we are referring too. It is a similar distinction that is found between condemnation and conviction. Since you sound like a well-versed individual with the Christian faith, I am sure you are aware, but let me fill everyone else in. Condemnation is of the devil, Conviction is of God. Both make you aware of your sin, but the difference is condemnation pushes you away from God, and conviction pulls you towards him. Condemnation is what the devil does to you every time you sin, what he puts on your when you try to go to God, and he reminds you of your sins and tells you that you are not worthy of his love. Conviction pulls you towards repentance and tells you that despite the fact you sin there is forgiveness.
The type of hate I was referring to, is the hate for the false, the hate for the judgemental nature, the hate for the religion (not relationship) that is found in the dry dead churches. The hate for those who judge outward appearance, the hate for those who judge failures, who do not accept openly, loving, those who are outcasts from society as Jesus did all through the scriptures. The world know what Jesus should look like, and when shown the genuine article often-times openly embrace the church, but strongly reject the false and dry religious establishment – as we see that Jesus did. Jesus, every time he was confronted with the religious establishments and doctrines would openly mock and rebuke them. The hate you were referring to is the hate the world gets when they refuse to turn from their sin and are constantly reminded through our righteousness how they are sinful. Those are the ones who hate us because we are right, who hate us because we are clean, who hate us because we love them despite what they do to us, that we bless those curse us and pray for those who persecute us. That is why they should hate us, not because we judge them, not because we proudly set ourselves above them with our noses held high, because we are so much more ‘righteous.’
I hate self-righteous religion and cannot stand it when people are falsely judged. I am not at all mad at you, you were simply making a good point off of what you thought I said, but it does make my spirit incredibly angry when judgements like the one above at Todd’s laughter are stated, as if their laughter does reflect God, and his does not. Let God judge others, and let vengeance be the Lords. You watch yourself, and judge yourself to be pure, not others.
Todd Bentley is from Canada, no? If so, why does he sound like he’s from the American South? Fake, fake, fake, fake, fake. As for the laughter, it sounds forced.
I’m personally not afraid of allegations of “blasphemy” or “touch not mine anointed” or judging. If people calling themselves ministers are out there fleecing the flock, shouldn’t they be exposed? Why is it that it almost always has to be the secular people who do the exposing, and not the church? It’s because the pew sitters have been cowed into submission by their leadership with all this talk of “don’t cross God or you’ll be in big trouble!”
Let’s be real here for a minute, folks: these healing services are big money. There’s lots of power and prestige going round for being involved in this latest “move.” That’s more than enough reason to expect fakery and exaggeration and bombastic talk from the ministers.
I don’t care if Todd Bentley has tattoos or piercings (but Todd, if you’re reading this, that piercing just below your lip is gonna damage your bottom teeth and you’re going to be hitting the tattoo laser removal doctor in 10 years). His doctrine isn’t annoying to me until it steps outside the door of his church and impacts my life outside, which it hasn’t done–YET.
But where I am concerned is that Todd and friends may be setting a lot of people up for disillusionment. I remember the Brownsville revival back in the 1990s made a lot of claims but didn’t fulfill them, and it ended up all pretty much crumbling to dust. (cf these articles which do not paint a very pretty picture: http://www.rickross.com/groups/brownsville.html ). I recall how people with nothing would drive to Florida hoping for something, and ending up even more broke than they were, and the Brownsville people did not take any responsibility for what they were doing, but instead shuffled these people off on the social services system of Pensacola. I saw a guy on God TV about 10 days ago saying that he’d come from Georgia because he’d gotten a healing in his back but that he and his family had no money and I see the same thing happening all over again.
You can’t just get people there out in Lakeland, FL, promise them the world, and then send them away with good feelings and supposed healings that wear off. As a diabetic, I have to wonder how many people will throw away their medicine and be harmed because they think they’re healed, without going to their doctors first? Remember that clip Miriam just put up the other day from one of Morris Cerullo’s healing rallies: the little girl died two months later. She was not healed. And you know, nobody can prove (yet) that they’ve been healed in these Todd Bentley rallies.
This is a lot of words just to basically say there is so much here, so much room for abuse that to just push it off and say God will take care of it is abidicating our responsibility as *human beings* to make sure our fellow man doesn’t get ripped off. Think about it!
Bassplaya26,
I agree with a lot of what you say. I can’t stand self-righteousness either. But we have to understand where to draw the line between helpful correction/warning and self-righteous/I’m holier than you and never mess up attitude.
I feel the “Judge not lest ye be judged” statement has been used to shrug off laziness and sensitivity in the church. ‘Accountability’ has become a foreign word. I say this from experience. I used to use that statement to shield myself from correction…not an actual judgement, even though I perceived it that way. When in actuality I was just being a child and not wanting to accept the fact that I was wrong and own up to it.
When it comes to the outside world hating the church and having bitterness towards it, well we both know it is the hypocracy…but mainly the Money Changer Evangelist on T.V. They see it for what it is and it’s people trying to buy God, buy blessings, buy favortism, buy self-righteousness or super spirituality. And when God doesn’t deliver to these wolve’s followers it just leads the outside world to point at us and laugh. We are a joke. Christianity is considered a crutch for weak people. And unsaved people that value their integrity shiver at the thought of being Christians just from this example alone.
I’ve known a bunch of atheist and my boyfriend was an atheist for 35 years and I had to deal with his mocking at times until he recently became saved. He was accepting of my faith but didn’t understand a lot of the hypocracy. Atheists Agnostics and people of other faiths have problems with Christianity’s ’say one thing and do another’ policy. You talk about Christ’s love yet you shun people that don’t dress like you, walk like you, talk like you, think like you. Understandable, but they also scoffed at our lack of holding evangelist crooks accountable and seeing Christians talk about being saved yet still act like the unbelievers they looked down on.
So, I understand that critiquing Todd Bentley might rub you wrong, but how does laughing like a maniac, crawling on the ground, looking drunk on stage, shaking like he was going through alcohol withdrawal bring any attention to God? Where in this performance does it make me go…OH I’m a sinner and need Jesus Christ in my life to save me from my sins. He might do the typical alter call at the end, but this performance reeks of shameless self promotion.
No this outpouring…it only brings attention to TODD and how his actions might make him ‘look’ Holy or ‘closer’ to God.
As a teacher on T.V., as much as we don’t like to admit it…appearances are everything. That’s why he has a shaved head, goatee, tatoos…so he can appeal to a younger audience and be accepted. Not saying I have anything against those items, but his job is about perception and appearances so he better make his ideas and statements very clear.
He was not clear to me, he was all over the place like a ADHD two year old. Put it this way, if he was doing secular seminars…I wouldn’t hire him to host crap.
There isn’t any judgement going on…he is a leader and biblically, he is to be tested and weighed against scripture. The moment he stepped in front of the camera he opened his ministry up to testing.
Thanks for the dialogue by the way. I enjoy discussing differing viewpoints.
Good on you servant. Well said.
Wow, I don’t think I’ve ever seen something so manufactured. Interesting how he also claims that he couldn’t have put all this together himself but we know it’s with the help of Bob and all the other Latter Rain fellas.
Religious folk are bound to hate this. All these ‘fake’ people, set up and paid to say they have somehow lost their skin cancer, even a Messianic Rabbi (Monday 19th May) that claims he can move his paralysed neck and arm ( did they find him in the dole queue?) Some will say almost anything rather than accept that Jesus moves outside their traditions and sensibilities.
Wow, did this person read the bible… do not judge lest not you be judged. Several people from our church have gone and come back, they, at least 30, have all said the presence of god is so thick there you can actually feel it. I have watched online and felt the presence of the holy spirit. Sounds like this person, is it another Paula, is not that in touch with the holy spirit themselves. Try getting baptized in the holy spirit and maybe he will talk to you too. Don’t judge…. that is what Jesus says repeatedly. I am offended and appalled.
Only one thing to say…it’s obvious that YOU have never experienced the annointing of the holy spirit. Stop hatefully judging and search to know the Lord’s presence for yourself. Did God appoint you to be the keeper and overseer of the saints? Go get some!!!!!
Question to all, what exactly is the anointing? Now please only biblical exegesis here, no leaning on mans understanding. Because it really doesn’t matter what you or I think, but what does the bible say the anointing is? Or do we want to run and hide and have no accountability as children of God. Do we want to run and hide under the banner of “Judge not lest you be judged”? Because the scriptures have much to say about judging within the body of Christ. And so likewise I believe the Bible has much to say about the anointing as well.
you do not know what you are even talking about I was at the church in lake land fl. I felt GODS anointed hands. our church teaches the same anointed power as TOD. and some times when GOD hits you.You may do things that you would never do in the flesh. Maybe you need to let GOD ZAP YOU on the floor. GOD moves through TOD it is not TOD doing it.It is GODS work and TOD will tell you the same thing. READ THE BIBLE ACTS IT WILL TELL YOU ABOUT THE PROMISE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. and it say in the word not to judge or you will be judged.have you ever read the BIBLE? I will pray for you and all the others like you because JESUS is coming soon he wants all to come to HIM. You just have to ask and take a DRINK of the LIVING WATER IT IS FREE.The only thing that is free and his name is JESUS CHRIST.
Guess if you shake your head around hard like that, yeah, you’re gonna see visions…
Reminds me of Islamic Whirling Dervishes….
laura
I just read the saddest testimony on Strom’s website. A Pastor Larry Reed from Washington State had terminal bone cancer. He went to Lakeland last week, and Mr. Bentley “Bammed” him. He struggled out of his wheelchair and cheered with the crowd as Mr. Bentley proclaimed him healed. He died yesterday.
Cheryl
They will say it is Larry’s fault for not having enough faith.
I read all the comments about people judging what they believe to be or not be “of God” from this video. There have been other reports of similar things that happened in churches over the last decade. Reports of an entire congregation being layed out on the floor simultaneously; people being healed without ever being publicly prayed-for; services in which people came in broke, worshiping God with the church and walking out with money in their pockets without anyone physically giving them money; worship services where the worship became so intimate that a cloud of smoke appeared on the stage and everyone close by fell on their faces. Reports of gold dust, or oil saturation, of precious gems of every color and size being found on the floor after worship. Here we have reports of the dead being raised in America - a nation with so many Believers yet, the same nation with so much unbelief. Jesus said if the dead are raised and the demons are being cast out, would that be God or Satan? Can Satan cast out Satan?
True, we are only human. In every prophetic utterance, in every act we do in the Lord, there will always be a percentage of flesh. We look through a glass darkly; we do not know the whole truth. Sometimes, ministers simply miss it.
Be quick to listen, slow to judge and slow to anger. God Himself is “Compassionate and Gracious, Slow to anger, abounding in Mercy and Truth; who keeps Lovingkindness for thousands, who Forgives iniquity, transgression and sin…” (Exodus 34:5-7)
Paul was told there was a certain man who was preaching the Gospel who was not from the Apostles. Paul did not tell that man to stop preaching, he replied instead that Christ was being preached.
This pastor may be unorthodox and may be doing things which seem strange or fake. Like someone commented earlier, we are to judge them by their fruits, not by outward appearances, because the Lord looks at the heart.
You know what, to all of this I have to say something, if only to bring revelation and correction from the Lord. I too was very skeptical and taken aback by the revival in Lakeland, until I stopped trying to see what everyone else thought and got on my face before God and waited on Him. Do you know what He said…He took me to scriptures that showed how He is God and He can do whatever He pleases and through whomever He pleases. He once spoke through a donkey, but today..I bet that would be unfathomable. Over and over again the Holy Spirit would repeat to me that a prophet is not welcome, and I understand why. You see I did not know the Lord coming up so I have never seen God move this way or any way charismatically, so when I did come to Christ I was a little intrigued by how the Lord works. Instead of taking anyones word for anything, I always sought things out for myself, because I found out that everyone has an opinion, but God’s word is truth and dispells darkness and lies. The word tells us that there will be falso prophets and false teachers..and it puts it this way ” Then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgement, and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries, whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord. But these, like natural brute beasts make to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. (2 Pet. 2:9-13)
So, in saying all of that, I would question if it is because you haven’t experienced this for yourselves by just going to this and seeing, or even for the one who said she felt like she was actually given demons from the laying on of hands…I think the enemy can also bind us because of misunderstanding things. As I said, I didn’t come up in all of this and have sought things out for myself. After laying on my face before God and things that I have experienced supernaturally myself and having actually been tormented before by demons and encounters thereof…I would say be very careful when speaking of God’s annointed. If it is not God, it will fall, but if it is this fruit will remain. I was watching on Wednesday night which was the 28th of May and I needed direction from the Lord and the confirmation of scripture and words that my husband and I have been given over the past 3 years were spoken through not just Todd but someone else on stage. We really do need to be careful that we operate in love and not schism and backbiting without speaking to those we question face to face first. I can truly say I love you all through the love that the Lord has so put in my heart and pray for spiritual awakening in the nations and in the church today!
Also, as for the man who passed away after the meeting of him being healed…wouldn’t you say that our ultimate healing is passing from this life into heaven itself? It has nothing to do with whether or not he believed..I bet he did…you know what..it could have been his time to see the Lord and others were trying to keep him here. I don’t think we should use stuff like this for skeptism..just watch the movement and let God do what God always does…and that is be in control!
Get alone with God, draw a circle around yourself and seek His face and see what happens. If you do this every day with a sincere heart, the Holy Ghost will fill you to overflowing and you can have times of refreshing as well. You may even laugh! The Joy of the Lord is our strength. Ask God to shine His spotlight on you to reveal any unclean thing in you and ask Him to remove it. Ask Him to help you to surrender totally to His will so you can be a BLESSING to others! One way to find out what is fake, EXPERIENCE WHAT IS REAL! Pray ye one for another and love one another. By this the world will know that we are His disciples, that we have love one for another. John 13:35 “By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.” Shannon put the icing on the cake.
You mean cast a circle - what ya doing practising witchcraft Patty?
To the last comment about what Patty said….let me share something with you. Commenting like that toward a fellow believer because you don’t agree is just wrong. Casting a circle…what…that is not what she said and it totally taken out of context which is pretty much what has been happening with all of this. Stop the mouths…with our mouths we bless God and curse others because we can’t bridle our tongues. Just a quick bit of info as well…when we went on a missions trip over seas in England..we prayed around where we would be doing street ministry because that is called placing a hedge of protection around our borders, because where our feet tread is ground taken for the Lord. There is so much witchcraft there and if you don’t understand what you are dealing with..you can be so ignorant to it and not even realize it. I want you to know that we prayed where God said and how He said and there was a witch who came over to where we were and tried to curse us, but the amazing thing about it was…she would not cross into the circle we prayed (hedge) around our stuff. Don’t tell me that the Lord won’t protect you or cover you in that way when you have never had to deal with that before personally. Those demons bound in that woman and what she was apart of, would not cross over because of the blood we prayed over our area. There is power in the blood…do we believe that..or do we just sing it and quote it because it sounds good? I pray we all come to the realization that there are mysteries and things of God that we can’t fathom or understand and thank God for the Holy Spirit and His comfort and guidance…which can only be quenched when we choose to disobey or speak evil of how He works. If you disagree with someone..take it to God before you speak and make sure you dig in and look it up for yourself..because the last thing you want to do is blaspheme the Holy Spirit and how He works. Jesus didn’t say it if He didn’t mean it!
Love you all In His Precious Name! May His grace and His love abound in each of you and may His blessings overtake you!
Dear Saints,
God Offends the mind to reveal the heart. Guard yr mouth & guard your heart for fm out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh! For by your words you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned!! I pray the devil will not hold you captive to do his works!!! (Matt12:35-37) But I say to you that for every IDLE word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment!! Watch out for the Hell fire!!!
Shannon: I would like to know where in the bible it says to draw a circle around yourself. And why should you, if indeed your under the blood of Christ Jesus? I got news for you, your victory in Jesus was fulfilled over two thousand years ago on the cross, for those who were predestined to become the sons of God! Predestined meaning God knows your choice before you were even thought of. He knew it before the foundations of the world.
You don’t need a circle, just faith in the FINISHED work of Jesus and him crucified! But you did give me something to research, for I have not found any new testament scripture that backs that circle thing up. Your hedge of protection is what Jesus has already done, not what you or any act you can do, except believing and trusting in JESUS. You more than likely could have built a straw hat for protection, it was your faith in Jesus that done it anyway, if indeed your telling the truth. Don’t think the circle had anything to do with it, for then you would be trusting in your works, and that would actually be a deceptive act on satan’s part to get you to focus your faith on other than Jesus and him crucified. So my advice to you would be to stop what your doing, and stay on faith in Christ Jesus alone! See where I’m coming from here? You get all caught up into thinking the circle had something to do with it, then next thing is that’s where your focus will be in the long run, and that is called spiritual adultery. Anything other than FAITH in JESUS and JESUS alone is spiritual adultery, and will ultimately deceive you into a bondage of works, which is none other but from Satan. Which then is witchcraft!
Bassplaya,Thank you for talking about what I call “spiritual terrorism”,trying to frighten us into silence with threats of committing the unforgivable sin being struck dead.us and our children being cursed(thank you,Benny Hinn),Touch not God’s anointed(arent all true Christians sealed with God’s Holy Spirit?)Its all a big smoke screen for phonies,charlatans.and false prophets to hide behind!I was territied for 3 years,because an Akron,Ohio faith healer said that if anyone did not accept his miracles as true.THEY HAD BLASPHEMED THE HOLY SPIRIT!!He said the same ws true for Christians,if they denied the validity of his miracles,they were now eternally damned,without any hope of forgiveness.Because I have Obsession-compulsion disorder,I could not stop thinking about what he said,and I became so terribly frightened that I couldnt sleep,eat,nearly had a nervous breakdown.People live in fear of these “ministers”.I no longer accept anything without checking it out,questioning it,comparing it to what is in the Bible,demanding to see proof…The way Todd Bentley looks doesnt really bother me,its the crazy things he is saying,BEWARE!
I have personally known of Christians ending up in the mental hospital,living for years feeling damned,and even committing suicide,because they have been told by some false leader that they had “blasphemed the Spirit”Do you think for one minutr that leaders like that care what those kind of threats do to people who are fragile,or sensitive,or suffer from a mental illness?Lives have been deatroyed by yhis sort of thing.My own dear Mother believed for 27 years that she had committed the unpardonable sin.She is a joyous Christian now,but she went through 27 years of PURE HELL.years she can never get back.Call us what you will,we are telling the truth about Todd Bentley!!!
Alease: I pray that you may be released from your torment, in Jesus’ name.
Paul said regarding Christians in 1Corintians 5:11-12,
“But now I am writing you that YOU MUST NOT ASSOCIATE with anyone who CALLS HIMSELF A BROTHER but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? ARE YOU NOT TO JUDGE THOSE INSIDE? God will judge those outside. ‘Expel the wicked man from among you.’” (emphasis mine).
Is not Todd Bentley greedy? Swindler? Is not Paul Cain a drunkard and sexually immoral, an homosexual? Not only that, are they both liars too? Why are people still associating with them?
Not only we should expose them, we must EXPEL THEM!
Okay, I do see your point about the circle thing…I just know that where we were and with the fact that we were dealing with a lot of witchcraft in London, that the woman would not cross over. That is why I said there had to be something to it. I may be wrong, but I just know that I love the Lord and I don’t think the Holy Spirit will lead me astray. I just pray we all come to the truth, but you are right, our faith in Christ and who He is, is enough. I just still think that when God said He would pour out His spirit upon all flesh and that when Jesus said we would do more than the works the disciples did then…what would you say He meant by more? I do not want to get caught up in calling anyone anything…I think we all have valid points, so just tell me what you think without anyone else on here getting angry, because behind some of these statements..I can feel so much anger about being right. I don’t care about being right..I just think we should get along. Wouldn’t you all say this is exactly why people of the world do not want anything to do with Christians? I mean we can’t even agree to disagree…what happened to the love of Christ abounding in our hearts…when I say without knowing any of you that I love you…I can say that with a pure heart, because of Christ love within me! Be blessed!
“God said He would pour out His spirit upon all flesh and that when Jesus said we would do more than the works the disciples did then…what would you say He meant by more?”
Shannon,
More works meaning more in number. If you interpret that verse to mean more spectacular works than how could that be correct? How much more spectacular can you get than raising the dead?
Shannon: I’m glad I was able to help you to see what drawing a circle thing was really all about. And if I my let me profound even more on it a bit, to make it even more clear. Just suppose, you seen a witch do that, and yes there are those who claim to be a witches. So seeing a witch did draw a circle that not knowing God where would you suppose that came from? The only thing that you can do to get saved is faith in Jesus, so it is the same faith that you use for all things, I mean ALL, not angels, not works, not acts. Works do come along with your faith, but those works must be biblical, or else your not trusting the one in the bible, but actually another Jesus, for it is by the Jesus in the bible you have placed your trust in.
But whatever you do, and it’s not in the bible then your out of the ball park. God sets boundaries, for the bible says straight and narrow is the path that leads to life, NOT wide is the way that leads to life. Life is in the faith you have in Jesus, so you must stay within the boundaries that God has set. And when people get all caught up in other things, even though you see some of those things in the bible, the FINISHED work of Jesus is where are focus should be. The bible didn’t call it FINISHED for nothing, in other words COMPLETE, DONE, FINISHED, if you add to that or take away from what JESUS already has done, then you have now shifted your faith else where, and are saying JESUS FINISHED work wasn’t enough. You can’t even put your trust in experiences, I have had many experiences but most where from a personal walk with God, not by anything I have or could have done.
This is also why I’m very careful of those who claim things, because Satan then can come in as a angel of light, and deceive. And he does that, to steal your faith, for even he knows the cross of Christ is a finished work. So he comes by and adds to it, or takes away from it, the boundaries that God has set, the CROSS OF CHRIST THE FINISHED WORK!
I do like these discussion forums because I think it is a good thing for us all to gain insight from others. Again, though, I do say, we should be operating in love if we are in Christ. The greatest commandments were to love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself. I just wish the tone behind some of the comments..not all of them…would be a love bearing comment, the truth spoken in love is not tearing one another down, but encouraging and building each other up. I can only believe and have faith that God, no matter what, is in control and His hand is all powerful and I think that if this is not of God…He can expose it…we don’t have to. He is all knowing and sometimes when I have thought I knew…guess what…He knew better. Let’s just be united in Christ and get along. I don’t feel like we should all be arguing the word of God. God bless you all!
Shannon,
concerning this statement you posted:
Also, as for the man who passed away after the meeting of him being healed…wouldn’t you say that our ultimate healing is passing from this life into heaven itself? It has nothing to do with whether or not he believed..I bet he did…you know what..it could have been his time to see the Lord and others were trying to keep him here. I don’t think we should use stuff like this for skeptism..just watch the movement and let God do what God always does…and that is be in control!
Comment by Shannon | May 30, 2008
I had a similar experience with my mom, I had been praying for healing for her and she died and i was devastated,confused and dissappointed, then the Lord reminded me that she was healed in the ultimate sense, she was not sick anymore and never would be again. What could be better for her. I have great peace about it now.
I had heard nothing about Todd Bentley until recently. I happened to be watching one of his “shows” and felt very uneasy about the whole thing. I had no preconceived ideas about him, as I had never heard of him before. The thing that struck me, was that it reminded me very much of a hypnotist show I had been to many years ago, before becoming a Christian. Todd Bentley is constantly moving his hands around, tapping and touching those he is supposed to be healing (this is something the stage hypnotist also do). Also, when they “fall” in the spirit, it seems to be identical to how a show hypnotist makes his stage guests fall. I felt so uneasy about him, that I felt I needed to do some more research. I came across this site and agree with many of the comments. Does anyone know about hypnotism? Is this possibly a technique that he is using? One thing I have noticed, is that people are either emotionless, or extreme in their behaviour (usually in a very weird and unsettling way). Again, the stage hypnotist had his guests behaving in very bizarre ways. Whislt the audience laughed at their antics, the other guests he had hypnotised, were completely emotionless.
With regards to his tatoos. He has become tatooed only after becoming a Christian. Why would he feel the need to get so many? I have no problem with those who already had tatoos before becoming a Christian. Nor would I personally judge someone who had the odd tatoo as a Christian. However, what would you think if your Pastor, husband or Christian friend suddenly started tatooing most of his/her own body. Why would he feel the need? What is the purpose? Why is it necessary? People say that we should not judge, however, are we to never challenge anything any more? Are we so weak and lame and scared to dare to ask any questions, for fear of being wrong, or judgmental? Who wants us to be fearful? Who wants us to silence us and keep us quiet, submissive and weak? We should be able to ask with boldness as well as in love? We should be able to test, weigh and challenge anything that we believe is not of God. It is very odd and I make no apologies for saying it, that this man’s words, actions and beliefs are not in agreement with scripture. In my humble opinion, he is not who he claims to be. It would be easy for me to be fearful and not to speak out by what my conscience is telling me. However, I shall not be bound by fear. If I am wrong, then may God forgive me and show me that I am wrong. If I am right, then may God continue to open the eyes and ears of all those who are blindly following and accepting this false prophet and his teachings.
Steph - you have hit the nail on the head, that is exactly what he is doing, as with the hyped up worship and all that. I am not against worship, but it can be used to get people hyped up when it is overlong and repetive.
BTW, can you elaborate a bit more on the hand movements and the tapping?
Hi, I do not profess to be any kind of expert in hypnosis at all. My knowledge is limited. However, with regards to stage hypnotism, the hypnotist was able to hypnotise most (but not all) of his volunteers. This was done be touching and tapping certain places on their neck, head, hands and arms. I remember thinking how amazing it was and how easily someone could be hypnotised. The things that these people did were outrageously funny and the sort of thing they would never do in “real life”. I would never go to see a show now though, as I do not believe is it of God. Even before becoming a Christian, I realised that hypnotism was very real and powerful; as well as the possibility that it could easily be used for more sinister or dishonourable purposes.
I understand that one to one hypnotism is different. Again, I understand that they use certain points on the body to hypnotise, as well as making the person feel very relaxed and comfortable prior to the hypnotism. The following statement is taken from the innersanctum.com website. It is explaining what the hypnotist does “Then I play relaxing music and help you go into hypnosis in a number of ways, through certain hypnotic touch points (i.e. the shoulders, top of head, and hands).”
Again, I have no idea how they do the actual hypnosis and don’t particularly want to delve too deep into this area, as I have already said, I think it is not of God. I do believe though, that there will be many hypnotists who believe that they are genuinely helping many people. Also, I am sure that many do it with a good motive. I have known people to have had hypnotism, it has seemed to work for them, for example to relieve pain, or overcome fears. They all said it was a very positive, relaxing and uplifting experience.
I would be really interested if anyone had more understanding of hypnotism, and could see any similarities at all between Todd Bentley and his healings and hypnotism. Watch him closely (and some of the people who are behind the person who is being healed). You will see how he seems to use the teqnique that I have described. Again, if I am wrong, then please disregard anything I have said.
Please take a look at this video on utube. I’m not sure if you will get it as a hyperlinklink. If you are unable to access it, please do a search on: Todd bentley exploding tumour. Does anyone really believe that God would call him to do any of these things? Also, it is very disturbing that anyone finds what he is saying remotely funny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAgLVFx_yh8
Steph: I have read a couple of books on hypnotism (by hypnotists) and they both say the same thing - there is no such thing as what it is commonly thought to be. People will do what they want to do because they want to or their are other subliminal messages and other manipulation to point them that way.
It is not about what goes on onstage, or whether or not you believe that todd bently is a perfect man of god. it has everything to do with what is going on with the people being affected. i’ve been to the revival and i will tell you personally that god is there and he is moving mightly in the hearts of every man and woman and child that enters. revival starts with the people who are hungry and thirsty for god, not with what you think of the evangelists. maybe he laughs too hard for you, or maybe when the spirit of god touches him you think he’s crazy, but you’re focusing on man, focus on god and what he is doing in florida. millions are accepting the lord, millions are being healed. i can tell you one thing, amazing changes have taken place in my life since i’ve come back from lakeland and that should be all that matters. even if he’s thinking of himself and not god, who are we to judge him? we have all fallen short of the glory of god. for once i’d like to see christians come together for god and not pick apart every little thing wrong such as his laugh or the little things he does. like todd bently says in the beginning of this same video “it’s all about jesus” stop looking to todd bently and look towards the center of lakelands revival, the lord jesus christ. maybe then you will begin to laugh in a different way, and feel the touch from heaven so much you cant stand up. god bless everyone.
The real test is over time. In 6 months how much have the lives continued to change, how many people are still healed after being home a while?
We are supposed to speak the truth in love. Truth must prevail. If the concerns and questions of people are unwarranted, time will reveal that as well. There is the old expression “Look before you leap.” There is wisdom in that.
The bible says not to judge unrighteously, the judgement that you judge with will be the same judgement done to you. I say it is a must to judge everything to see if it is of God or not. Don’t be afraid to judge if you understand the word of the lord. People like Todd have come and gone before, too bad he is distracting the laborers from the work of the great commission. The gospel does not appear in the messages, no talk of sin,judgement to come, repentance, being born again, no talk of trusting in the finished work of the cross, that Jesus had to suffer and be nailed to the cross, that he paid for our sins in the most humiliating way imaginable; naked and thirsty and beat to a pulp for us. Where is the preaching to call on the savior to save us from the sin that is made so real and sin becoming very sinful? Let those who seek after a sign see the sign of the cross!
Steve - i totally agree im also disturbed by “a drunken glory” again where is it that the Holy Spirit makes us drunk? please dont say acts 2- note not all those people thought they were drunk! also people were amazed, when i see someone drunk in the “spirit” all u get is stuper and people who cant put 2 sentences together, Hmmmmm! Fruit of the Holy Spirit seems missing. Paul spoke in the power of the Spirit in much fear and trembling, im sure it didnt involve any such behaviour as we see so often in these churches.
Also comment “if you are a leader” come! why so much focus on leaders, sounds like a battle strategy, see how in war u win when u take out the leader!
This guy is an idiot and is not a man of God.
Mark 9:39-40 “Teacher” said John, “we saw a man driving out demons on your name & we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.” “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us.” Philippians 1-18 But what does it matter? The imporatnat thing is that in everyway, whether from false motive or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.
Jesus is real! He is Alive ! He is working to heal and change many lives ! Just let God move and use whomever he wants. Remember Todd is human.He is not perfect.But he is
preaching repentence.Let people get saved! Stop picking apart everything!
Julie,
Remember Todd is human.He is not perfect.
Yes, we are all human and imperfect. However, Todd lies to cover lies and has prophesied falsely. Plus, he believes we can command Heaven. From the Elijah List:
http://www.elijahlist.com/words/display_word/6093
“We’re going to make a demand on Heaven and we’re going to see God’s justice this year, and we’re going to see Him bring it forth out of His Kingdom.”
But he is preaching repentence.
If you could point me to an audio/video clip of this, that would be great! I’ve not heard this at all.
To Steph and Miriam,
Sorry this is a bit late – I wanted to reply to your comments (eg numbers 34, 36, and 37) on hypnotism.
I have researched hypnosis quite a bit. To the best of my knowledge, you cannot hypnotise someone just by touching or tapping them. I’ve haven’t read anything that suggests this. But touch can certainly play a part in the hypnotic process alongside other stimuli (usually verbal). And if someone is in an altered state of consciousness or mild trance, then touching their head can indeed cause them to fall over.
My research has categorically revealed that what is happening at the meetings in Lakeland (and many other so-called revivals) is partly the result of mass hypnosis. Lots of other people feel the same.
Steph, here are two excellent posts by Miriam on this subject:
http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/03/30/modern-day-signs-and-wonders-hypnotism-and-trancework/
http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/05/19/trance-states-and-the-florida-revival-lakeland-outpouring/
The most interesting thing that I have discovered is that hypnotic states cause the body to release endorphins, powerful hormones that act in a similar way to opiates (eg heroin), producing pain relief and feelings of euphoria. It’s the same effect that you get after going to the gym. This explains the short-term “healings” – people’s pain goes away and they feel good, so they believe they’ve been healed, but in reality there is no physical change to their body and their conditions are the same. As an example, some people will use a wheelchair not because they are actually unable to walk, but because they’re in so much pain when they do. They go to a revival meeting, experience an endorphin high, and might be able to get up, walk, run, or dance in front of everyone. Hey presto, a miracle. But a few hours later, the effects wear off, the pain returns, but no-one’s around to see their disappointment when they discover they’ve lost their “healing”. This could explain why they keep coming back! Also, I guess the effects of endorphins (like opiates) can be addictive, again causing people to return.
Actual physical problems are not affected so someone with, for example, a spinal cord injury will not be able to walk again.
I hope you can see how the above explains Lakeland, etc, perfectly. It also fits in with the complete lack of medical verification. But it is blasphemy to call such psychological phenomena “divine healing”
I did say that hypnosis was part of the explanation for Lakeland. The other part is scary – I think there is a dark side to what’s going on.
In my view, some of the phenomena are too extreme to be just the result of hypnosis (eg the wild convulsions, Stacey Campbell’s head shaking, etc). They also happen in other situations where there isn’t a skilled manipulative speaker or crowd of emotionally pumped-up people. I am rapidly coming to the frightening conclusion that there are demonic spirits at work that can be passed on, including by touch.
So I would advise avoiding this false “revival” at all costs (at Lakeland and anywhere else in the world). The “impartation” you will get is likely to be a demon.
I think the mission of these evil spirits is quite subtle. They do make people feel good, excited, and on fire for God. But they also cause people to seek excitement rather than the truth, and they open people up to the deception of false teachers. Eventually, those they afflict become consumed and burnt out, losing their faith, falling into major error, or in some cases becoming mentally ill.
I’d be interested to know whether other people share my views here. They are speculative, but they fit in with what I’ve seen and heard.
anothersceptic,
While I have very limited experience with this I completely agree with everything you are saying. I suspect that two of my inlaws who are having mental illness issues may have had an impartation. They are both suffering from unexplained anxiety. I might be wrong but they are both being expossed to false teaching of the Lakeland kind.
Unfortunately at this point in time they are not interested in connecting the dots.
Mary, thanks for your comment. I have just prayed for your inlaws. The other thing that came to mind is that mental illness doesn’t always come directly from the demons, it can come from the internal conflict that results from living in the fantasy land of these false teachers. For example, you believe that you’ve been healed but then your illness comes back, and you can’t reconcile the two, because you’ve been brainwashed into believing that you are healed. This is a recipe for a mental breakdown.
Deceiving and being deceived!