Paula White says the Apostle Paul was not a Good Preacher

From slaughteringthesheep.wordpress.com -

“Hear Paula White in her own words say that the Apostle Paul was not a good preacher.  She also says that he was boring.  If you don’t want to listen to the whole sermon (and I use that word loosely), skip forward to the 1:45 mark.

She lauds Paul’s writings, but says that since he didn’t take homiletics or hermineutics, he wasn’t a good preacher because he preached too long.  According to White, if you can’t say it in 30 minutes, you can’t preach well.

What Paula says we need in the church?

We don’t need sermons, we don’t need to be preached to anymore… we need the power of God.

After all is said and done, after her much speaking, her sermon turns right back around to prosperity, telling the crowd that God is going to make them rich. ”

See the actual video here: http://slaughteringthesheep.wordpress.com/2008/04/29/paula-white-says-the-apostle-paul-was-not-a-good-preacher/

The same website has also posted this piece -

“I am here to answer a question which has eluded many people through the years.  The question is this:  How do I get the same type of increase that Word of Faith ministers claim to get when I donate money to them?

In these ten simple steps, I’ll tell you how:

1. First, you must fully embrace the Word of Faith doctrine and be willing to teach it.  Careful though, you must set aside sound biblical precepts and teach prosperity.  You can not teach God’s strength through weakness.  You can not teach faith in financial hard times.  You can not teach the sufficiency of God’s grace in loss.  You can only teach health, wealth, and prosperity.
2. You must find an audience who will give you a platform in order to speak. 
3. You must be willing to demand cash or checks from the audience.
4. You must have an audience to fleece money from.
5. You must tell the audience that God’s annointing is worth whatever you’re willing to pay for it…but be sure to stay away from FAITH, REPENTENCE, and OBEDIENCE.  Those will empty out your audience, and you’ll have less people to milk.
6. You must have an audience to fleece money from.
7. You must hope and pray that said audience does not read Scripture, and rightly divide the Word of Truth.
8. You must have an audience to fleece money from.
9. You must be willing to take money from the sick and dying, widows, orphans, and poor.

And, last but not least, number 10….

10.  You must have a biblically illiterate audience to fleece money from.

Any more questions?”

Winds of Change Angel squeezing, shooting & bursting in the stratosphere

There has been a lot of talk about the odd angels, with odd names, and even odder behaviour tagging onto Todd Bentley’s Fresh Fire ministry, and that of his associated prophets and apostles. This ‘prophecy’ was on a previous post about the predicted Atlanta Outpouring here: http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/05/18/predicting-the-atlanta-georgia-outpouring-starts-may-27th/ , but I wanted to flag this ‘prophecy’ up for those that missed it, as it is just so ridiculously unbiblical and new age. They’ll be talking about ‘portals’ next. Oh sorry, they already are. Have these guys been watching too much sci-fi or what?

“Jim Drown, a Fresh Fire associate from Atlanta, had a powerful encounter with this same angel while traveling back to Atlanta after being in the meetings with Todd. This angel declared, “I am the winds of change. I am going to be squeezed in Lakeland until I shoot up into the stratosphere where I will burst like a firework and fall down over the whole earth in facets and dimensions.”  Jim was so affected that he stopped the car and headed back to the meetings.”

(Source: website http://www.globalevangelisticmissions.com)

Marjoe Gortner vs Todd Bentley – Brings New Meaning to the Word “Revival”

Thanks to Deborah of  http://discerningtheworld.wordpress.com for this article. Though this article is compared to Todd Bentley’s revival techniques, it can of course be applied to many other ministers, past and present, on the healing/pentecostal circuit. I read Marjoe’s book some months ago, and it is very interesting it was in my ‘to do a proper article on’ pile. (Marjoe’s mother and father were also both fascinating characters). There are a few videos of Marjoe on You Tube for those who want to know more – as well as the book and the film, of course. And maybe I’ll get around to writing up my comments on the book at some point too.

“I am sure ‘most’ people in the USA know who Marjoe Gortner is.  I and many others around the world have never heard of him.  But he is an important piece in ‘faith healing’ puzzle, just as important as William Brenham is with his ‘mantle’ that everyone so willingly likes to accept and wrap around their ‘undiscerning’ shoulders without ‘testing the spirits’ as per 1 John. 

Add ’signs and wonder seekers’ with fleshy emotions, hypnotism, mesmerism, William Brenham’s mantle and an angel called Emma and you have a Todd Bentley ‘revival’.  One where the healing is part ‘hypnotic’ and part ‘demonic’.   Problem is you will never know where your healing come from, until one day you find your health worse off than before, your spiritual life on a fast road to destruction and the church were the ’anointing’ took place in shambles, for you ignored God’s warnings and invited Satan in for a free joy ride – cos it all just a ‘huge’ party!

Please note I also believe that Hypnotism is demonic as well, so either way you have a problem on yours hands.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Marjoe Gortner was the first Evangelical preacher to blow the whistle on his profession. In his documentary film, Marjoe, made in the late sixties, he revealed age-old tricks of the trade and exposed some of the entertainment aspects of the popular movement that have made it big business.

If he lives forever, Hugh Marjoe Ross Gortner will most likely always be “The World’s Youngest Ordained Minister.” Born January 14, 1944, Marjoe was almost strangled during delivery by his own umbilical cord. The obstetrician told his mother that it was a miracle the child survived, and thus “Marjoe” – for Mary and Joseph – the Miracle Child, took his place at the end of a long line of Evangelical ministers.

From the beginning, his preaching skills were meticulously cultivated. Before he learned to say “Mamma” or “Poppa,” he was taught to sing “Hallelujah!” When he was nine months old his mother taught him the right way to shout “Glory!” into the microphone. At three, he could preach the gospel from memory, and he received drama coaching and instruction in every performing art from saxophone playing to baton twirling. On Halloween, 1948, at the age of four, Marjoe was officially ordained and thrust into a wildly successful career as the Shirley Temple of America’s Bible Belt, the sprawling non-geographic community of strict adherents to the Christian scriptures. In the following decade he preached to packed tents and houses coast to coast, as enthusiastic audiences flocked to see the Miracle Child who allegedly received sermons from the Lord in his sleep. Owing to his mother’s careful training, harsh discipline, and indomitable ambition, Marjoe’s sermons were flawlessly memorized, right down to each perfectly timed pause and gesture. Frequent Hallelujahs and Amens punctuated his performances, which were cleverly promoted with titles such as “From Wheelchair to Pulpit” and “Heading for the Last Roundup,” which Marjoe preached wearing a cowboy suit.

Marjoe’s captivating sermons rarely failed to fill the church collection plate to the brim, and his renowned faith healings were miraculous even to him. In his teens, however, Marjoe grew disenchanted with the continued deception of his divine powers. He left the Evangelical movement in search of more legitimate means of employment. He spent some time in a rock band, trying to move with the changing times; then he returned to the Evangelical circuit to make his revealing motion picture. Marjoe is one of those frank films that delves deeply into sensitive areas of American morality that slip over the line into profiteering.

We found Marjoe in Hollywood last year, where he now resides on a secluded hilltop estate in Laurel Canyon. After we drove up the winding dirt road that leads to his lofty home, Marjoe greeted us cordially and ushered us into his sunken living room, where he pointed out some familiar features of the sprawling southern California landscape visible through his wall-sized picture window. We told him that we had come to hear about his miraculous powers of “saving” and “healing,” trade secrets that neither his film nor his subsequent biography unraveled satisfactorily. Tall, handsome, with lion-colored curls and a penetrating stare, even in T-shirt and faded jeans Marjoe had an air of power about him. From the outset of our talk, however, he squashed all notions we might have had that his talents were in any way extraordinary.

“I don’t have any power,” he started off, just to set the record straight. “And neither do any of these other guys. Hundreds of people were healed at my crusades, but I know damn well it was nothing I was doing.”

Yet, Marjoe admitted, he remained somewhat baffled by the thousands of souls he helped to “save” and the numerous illnesses he seemed to have cured. His own insight into his preaching skills was on a decidedly earthly level. Based on his years of training and experience, he located the source of his divine power squarely out among the flocks who assembled to receive his gifts.

“You start with a guy who obviously has a problem,” he explained. “You’ve got to begin on that premise. Things haven’t worked out for him, or he’s looking for something, or whatever. So he goes to one of these revivals. He hears very regimented things. He sees a lot of people glowing around him – people who seem very, very happy – and they’re all inviting him to come in and join the clique and it looks great. They say, ‘Hey, my life was changed!’ or ‘Hey, I found a new job!’ That’s when he’s ready to get saved, or Born Again; and once he’s saved, they all pat him on the back. It’s like he’s been admitted to this very special elite little club.”

Marjoe downplayed his own role in the proceedings. As he saw it, the real show was in the audience; he served primarily as a conductor.

“As a preacher,” he said, “I’m working with the crowd, watching the crowd, trying to bring them to that high point at a certain time in the evening. I let everything build up to that moment when they’re all in ecstasy. The crowd builds up and you have to watch it that you don’t stop it. You start off saying you’ve heard that tonight’s going to be a great night; then you begin the whole pitch and keep it rolling.”

For Marjoe, who has seen it a million times, the divine moment of religious ecstasy has no mystical quality at all. It is a simple matter of group frenzy that has its counterpart in every crowd.

“It’s the same at a rock-and-roll concert,” he asserted. “You have an opening number with a strong entrance; then you go through a lot of the old standards, building up to your hit song at the end.”

The hit song, however, is spiritual rebirth, the product of a time-tested recipe for religion to which the preacher and every member of the audience contribute some small but active ingredient. Then, according to Marjoe, the only fitting encore to the overwhelming moment of becoming saved is a personal demonstration of the power of that newfound faith. This is the motivating factor that prompts speaking in tongues, also known as the “receiving of the glossolalia.” As Marjoe explained it, this well-known Evangelical tradition requires even greater audience participation on the part of the tongues recipient and the entire audience.

“After you’ve been saved,” Marjoe continued, “the next step is what they call ‘the infilling of the Holy Spirit.’ They say to the new convert, ‘Well, now you’re saved, but you’ve got to get the Holy Ghost.’ So you come back to get the tongues experience. Some people will get it the same night; others will go for weeks or years before they can speak in tongues. You hear it, you hear everyone at night talking in it in the church, and they’re all saying, ‘We love you and we hope you’re going to get it by tonight.’ Then one night you go down there and they all try to get you to get it, and you go into very much of a trance — not quite a frenzy, but it is an incredible experience.

“During that moment the person forgets all about his problems. He is surrounded by people whom he trusts and they’re all saying, ‘We love you. It’s okay. You’re accepted in Christ. We’re with you, let it go, relax.’ And sooner or later, he starts to speak it out and go dut-dut-dut. Then everyone goes, ‘That’s it! You’ve got it!’ and the button is pushed and he will in fact start to speak in tongues and just take off: dehan-dayelo-mosatay-leesaso … and on and on.”

Marjoe paused. Flo was dumbfounded by his demonstration, although he hadn’t gone into the jerking, trance-like ecstasy that is commonly associated with the tongues movement. I’d seen the classic version in his movie, yet even in this restrained demonstration, Marjoe appeared to be triggering some internal releasing or babbling mechanism. I asked him how he brought it about.

“You’ll never get with that attitude,” he joked. Then he went on to explain the true nature of the experience. His perspective showed it to be a process that requires a great deal of effort to master.

“Tongues is something you learn,” he emphasized. “It is a releasing that you teach yourself. You are told by your peers, the church, and the Bible – if you accept it literally – that the Holy Ghost spake in another tongue; you become convinced that it is the ultimate expression of the spirit flowing through you. The first time maybe you’ll just go dut-dut-dut-dut, and that’s about all that will get out. Then you’ll hear other people and next night you may go dut-dut-dut-UM-dut-DEET-dut-dut, and it gets a little better. The next thing you know, it’s ela-hando-satelay-eek-condele-mosandrey-aseya … and it’s a new language you’ve got down.”

Except that, according to Marjoe, it’s not a real language at all. Contrary to most religious understanding, speaking in tongues is by no means passive spiritual possession. It must be actively acquired and practiced. Although the “gift” of tongues is a product of human and not supernatural origin, Marjoe displayed tremendous respect for the experience as an expression of spirituality and fellowship.

“I really don’t put it down,” he said. “I never have. It’s just that I analyze it and look at it from a very rational point of view. I don’t see it as coming from God and say that at a certain point the Holy Spirit zaps you with a super whammy on the head and you’ve ‘gone for tongues’ and there is it. Tongues is a process that people build up to. Then, as you start to do something, just as when you practice the scales on the piano, you get better at it.”

Already, we could see the difference between Marjoe and some of his modern-day fellow preachers and pretenders. Unlike many cult, group, and Evangelical leaders, Marjoe has always held his congregation in high regard. During his years on the Bible Belt circuit, he came to see the Evangelical experience as a form of popular entertainment, a kind of participatory divine theater that provides its audiences with profound emotional rewards. Marjoe realized that his perspective would not be shared by most Born Again Christians.

“The people who are out there don’t see it as entertainment,” he confessed, “although that is in fact the way it is. These people don’t go to movies; they don’t go to bars and drink; they don’t go to rock-and-roll concerts – but everyone has to have an emotional release. So they go to revivals and they dance around and talk in tongues. It’s socially approved and that is their escape.”

Within that context of social entertainment, Marjoe took pride in his starring role as a traveling evangelist.

“It was my duty to give them the best show possible,” he said. “Say you’ve got a timid little preacher in North Carolina or somewhere. He’ll bring in visiting evangelists to keep his church going. We’d come in and hit the crowd up and we were superstars. It’s the charisma of the evangelist that the audience believes in and comes to see.”

What got to Marjoe, he explained, and eventually drove him out of the business were many of the same disturbing aspects of the Evangelical movement we had noticed in our own travels and interviews.

“When I was traveling,” he said, looking back on the old days, “I’d see someone who wanted to get saved in one of my meetings, and he was so open and bubbly in his desire to get the Holy Ghost. It was wonderful and very fresh, but four years later I’d return and that person might be a hard-nosed intolerant Christian because he had Christ. That’s when the danger comes in. People want an experience. They want to feel good, and their lives can be helped by it. But then as you start moving into the operation of the thing, you get into controlling people and power and money.”

Marjoe shook his head sadly. Indeed, he didn’t strike us as the type of person who would be comfortable in that role. In the sixties, while he was exploring new outlets for his talents, he watched his former profession grow to vast international dimensions. Since then, he has followed the curious rise of America’s religious cults, among them Reverend Moon’s Unification Church.

“Moon is doing the same thing I do,” said Marjoe, “only he’s taken it one step further. He’s suggesting to people that he is the Messiah. In my religion, the old-time religion, it’s total blasphemy to suggest that. Moon has gone too far, but that’s a heavy number on people, because everyone wants to meet a Messiah.”

Marjoe was quick to point out that Moon’s preaching powers, like his own, are by no means divine or even innate. Marjoe acknowledges that his power over an audience derives primarily from the skills of rhetoric and public speaking that have been passed down to us from the Greeks. Those tools have long been in the public domain, and they make up the stock-in-trade of everyone whose work involves personal contact with other individuals and groups.

“It’s the same whether you’re a preacher, a lawyer, or a salesman,” he told us. “You start off with a person’s thought processes and then gradually sway him around to another way of thinking in a very short time.”

Although Marjoe no longer consciences the use of his preaching talents for evangelical purposes, he still uses his skills in areas that have nothing to do with religion.

“I was campaigning for Jerry Brown when he was running for governor,” he said. “I gave speeches when he couldn’t show up. This was a whole different kind of speech for me, because I didn’t know the people and the whole thing was political. One time I was supposed to go to a rally for a thousand AFL-CIO workers in San Francisco, and I thought, Oh, no, how am I going to talk to these guys? I needed a hook to get the audience, because I knew a person’s mind is usually made up within the first minute or so. If they like you and you say the right things at first, then you can take them on to other things they might not ordinarily agree with. But all I had to go on was that, and structures of speech I knew from preaching.”

He paused again, allowing us a moment to consider his predicament.

“When I got there they were a little hostile,” he continued, “and I was very nervous about it. There was a podium with two flags on it, an American flag and a California state flag. I walked up – it was very quiet – and as I was walking up there it came to me, I don’t know from where. I grabbed the American flag and I crinkled it in my hand. I looked at it and sort of gave it a little toss back against the wall and said, ‘I remember when Betsy Ross made that flag. Today it’s made in Japan.’ Well, a roar went up as that struck a chord in those workers, and I was God from that moment on.”

Today Marjoe restricts the use of his talents to his acting career and to social causes he deeply believes in. Foremost among those causes is informing the public about some of the rhetorical techniques that are being used to manipulate their thoughts and emotions. Most techniques Marjoe is in command of are simple and age-old, but so effective that they can be equally powerful even when and audience has been explicitly forewarned of their use. Toward the end of our conversation, Marjoe told us a story that revealed the fineness of his rhetorical skills. In contrast to the massive physical experiences such as intense group rituals and intimate personal crises that have been recognized as major contributors to the snapping moment, Marjoe demonstrated how words alone, artfully manipulated, may be used to influence groups and individuals, even to the point of evoking the overwhelming emotional response of being “saved.”

“I lecture in about twenty colleges a year,” he began, “and I do a faith-healing demonstration – but I always make them ask for it. I tell them that I don’t believe in it, that I use a lot of tricks; the title of the lecture is ‘Rhetoric and Charisma,’ so I’ve already told them the whole rap explaining how it’s done, but they still want to see it. So I throw it all right back at them. I say, ‘No, you don’t really want to see it.’ And they say, ‘Oh, yes. We do. We do!’ And I say, ‘But you don’t believe in it anyway, so I can’t do it.’ And they say, ‘We believe. We believe!’ So after about twenty minutes of this I ask for a volunteer, and I have a girl come up and I say, ‘So you want to feel better?’ And I say, ‘You’re lying to me! You’re just up here for a good time and you want to impress all these people and you want to make an ass out of me and an ass out of this whole thing, so why don’t you just go back and sit down?’ I get really hard on her, and she says, ‘No, no, I believe!’ And I keep going back and forth until she’s almost in tears. And then, even though this is in a college crowd and I’m only doing it as a joke, I just say my same old line, In the name of Jesus! and touch them on the head, and wham, they fall down flat every time.”

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Please note I am not against the gifts of the Holy Spirit – far from it.  But I am against supposed ‘men of God’ who perform counterfit signs and wonders.  How do we know they are counterfeit?  Because their beliefs and/or doctrine is contrary to the Word of God.

References:

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/marjoe.htm”

Here is a video from Marjoe -

More lies, cover ups, deception – Paul Cain, Todd Bentley, Steve Strader

I recently asked the question: Why did Todd Bentley let Paul Cain lie to millions?   There were at least two lies, and not just one. See the background article here is you have not already here.

It was not just I that spotted this lie - many others did, with far more clout than me in church circles, as Paul Cain’s fall is well known, as well as the reasons for it. Other commentators even sympathetic to the Lakeland Outpouring were troubled by Paul Cain’s faux pax. Steve Strang, the publisher of Charisma Magazine  and long-time friend since 9th grade with Stephen Strader of Ignited Church, said on 7th May on his blog:  http://www.strangreport.com/

“…At one of the meetings recently Paul Cain was given a place on the platform. Unfortunately Paul Cain has disqualified himself from ministry due to various sins in his life he has confessed to including drunkenness and homosexuality. Other ministers have worked to restore him, but we are told that the restoration process has not continued. Nevertheless, Paul publicly said in Lakeland that there were “false rumors” about him and that he had lived a “chaste life.” Both are not true. I’ve been told by leaders in the revival that Paul won’t be invited back. I compliment them for this. I can understand how someone is let on the platform and they shouldn’t. But to me, before I attended the first meeting, this was a real caution on their discernment……Much of what I know has come from Steve Strader (whom I have known a long time and who I trust).”

So Steve Strang is told by Steve Strader, some time on or before 7th May, that Paul Cain lied, that the leaders of the revival well knew this, and thus will not invite Paul Cain back because of it. But interestingly, Strang does not seem concerned that the lie remained hidden and covered up to the world – for although some  know of Paul Cain’s sin and hypocrisy, many of particularly the younger crowd do not – and so the lie went unchecked with all of them. Steve Strang does not mention that Paul Cain should immediately have been rebuked and corrected publically for lying, not only while speaking or teaching, but worse still, while prophesying. 

None of them even raised the question about lying spirits evidently being in Cain’s mouth and how a true prophet could not possibly speak out such lies while supposedly speaking for the Lord – for if the Lakeland leaders did as logic and conscience and integrity dictates, then Paul Cain, and many others that back Paul Cain and his prophecies, are also shown up for what they   are – as false prophets with frogs in their mouths too as they echo Cain word for word!

If  Todd Bentley had rebuked Cain then and there, as any man with even a little integrity should have done, then the prophecy about himself being the new Elijah fulfilling the Joel’s Army healing revival visions with stadiums full etc as prophesied by Paul Cain would also   obviously be called into question by the crowd as the lying prophet Paul Cain is shown for what he is – a liar and hypocrit who lacks any fear of God. But Todd Bentley does not care enough about correcting such big lies, and will allow lies to go unchecked, however big, for the sake of his reputation and to make himself look good. That is bad news! What does this say about the man? That he is willing to let lies go unchecked to make himself look better? And what does this say about his prophetic mantle to let another prophet lie while supposedly prophesying? That Todd Bentley like Paul Cain also has such a lying mantle? It makes sense as they both claim William Branham’s angels, and Branham was a liar – both as a prophet and a healer. It raises questions, of course, about the leader’s and prophet’s discernment too – and the discernment of those listening to them, especially if they believed Paul Cain.

On the 11th May, my article came out on this site, and on 12th May, a commentator responded on the post on my website about Cain lying:

“Todd Bentley did not allow Paul Cain to come back to the podium after that. He was honoring him for the vision he caried. The hope was that Paul would have been restored. He is not. Rick Joyner of Morning Star Ministries has posted this in a Special Bulletin section from their web site. I do pray for Paul, but he is not alowed to minister through Fresh Fire or Morning Star now.”

So I went to Rick Joyner’s website, and sure enough there is this special bulletin dated 9th May on there, possibly in response to the concerns expressed by people like Steve Strang around the 7th May.  Rick Joyner has a vested interest to promote the Lakeland Outpouring because of all the interlinking ties with the New Apostolic Reformation and new prophets network. If he speaks against Todd Bentley, not only does he speak against and possibly jeopardise his associated Heritage Outpouring, but all the prophecies and their self-fulfilment spoken over Bentley by  Joyner’s buddies like Bob Jones, Patricia King, Che Ahn etc. Todd Bentley of course is also promoting Bob Jones agenda and the NAR and Latter Rain’s agenda. Rick Joyner is thus going to damage limitate as much as possible for his  sake as much as Todd Bentley’s. This article is from http://www.morningstarministries.org/Publisher/Article.aspx?id=1000031954 (the bold emphasises are mine):

“I kept that hope (about Cain being restored) until Paul spoke in Lakeland about “the allegations” about him and his assertions of having lived a celibate life. That was pretty overwhelming evidence that he has still not repented of these serious transgressions. What Paul called “allegations” are abundant and overwhelming evidence, which Paul has admitted to. However, admitting something is not the same as repenting of it. As long as there is blame-shifting, an attempt to cover them up, or dilute the seriousness of them, the restoration process has at best fallen far short of its purpose.

As it has been reported that Todd would not let Paul come back on the platform after he asserted that he had lived a celibate life is a credit to the integrity that Todd is trying to maintain in his ministry. If Paul had even just said that he had made serious mistakes in his life and owned them just a little, it would have given me hope, but it seemed quite clear to me that not much has changed with Paul, and in fact, they are getting worse. Even so, I am resolved to not give up on Paul for as long as he is with us. I long for the day, as I know Jack and Mike do also, when we can assert that Paul is free of the serious strongholds in his life and should be restored to ministry. Presently, my concern for him grew considerably after his night in Lakeland.

When Paul Cain appeared on the platform of the revival in Lakeland it caused quite a reaction, jamming my personal emails to the point where I thought for a while it might be impossible to answer them all. Some were disconcerted about Paul’s appearance, others by some of the things he said, and others were simply asking if Paul had been restored yet.

The reason why Paul was invited to the Lakeland revival was that he had prophesied that “the last-day ministry” would begin in Florida. I have personally heard Paul say this many times over the years and questioned him about it in depth. I believe it is a true prophecy, and when I heard that Paul was saying that what was happening in Lakeland was the fulfillment of this prophecy, I was very interested to hear what he would say about it.

I also felt that Todd Bentley was right to honor Paul by bringing him to that meeting and letting him share the vision he has carried for so long. As I have shared in the previous Special Bulletins, I think it may have begun with a devotion to honor the fathers as I was shown in a dream. As I was later shown, this was because it was by the dishonoring of fathers and fatherhood that a gate of hell was opened that released much of the evil which has taken a grip on the nation. I consider Paul Cain a spiritual father to us personally and to a number of the important works that have been raised up in these times for “the last-day ministry.”

The commandment to honor our fathers and mothers does not say they have to be “perfect” ones or there would be none to honor. We have all fallen short of His righteousness. Some of the greatest heroes of the faith in the Bible made some of the greatest mistakes. Paul Cain has had some serious failures in his life, but even when Mike Bickle, Jack Deere, and I were compelled to release some of these matters publicly for the protection of the church, I never ceased to consider Paul Cain a hero of the faith, and one who possessed one of the greatest prophetic gifts. Even so, we all knew that if Paul did not submit himself to a real restoration process, he would be a serious danger to himself and others. We could not be true shepherds or watchmen if we allowed that to happen without sounding the warning that we put out.

Later, Paul submitted himself to a restoration process and they declared him restored to ministry. When those who had led this process explained how they had accomplished this so fast, it set off more alarms in me. Some of the communication I had with them and with Paul only solidified my doubts. Even so, I had a great hope that I was wrong, or even if I was right about the validity of their restoration process, that the Lord would intervene some other way so that Paul could be delivered from the powerful strongholds that had taken such a grip on his life.”

So Rick Joyner is agreeing with Steve Strang and Stephen Strader’s initial account. Everyone agrees with each other as to what happened, although the conclusion is still not good enough. They are saying Paul Cain lied, the leaders including Todd Bentley know he lied, Todd Bentley knew Cain lied but hushed it up, and Paul Cain was wrong to do it. All Paul’s fault – blame it on the drunken senile gay underdog. But do not publically undermine anything – keep it as quiet as possible but keep Steve Strange happy and explain it away by putting it all on Cain. But this response is still not good enough for the reasons before mentioned. Because even if  the above account were 100% true, and Todd Bentley ’out of integrity’ would not allow Paul Cain back on the stage, it still was not good enough. The damage had been done and needed corrected. I said on this site post:

“So Rick Joyner NOW claims (because of all the hoo hah) that Todd Bentley would not let Paul Cain back  on the platform because he lied? So very easy to say that, when all the back slapping and all that was to be said by Paul Cain about Todd Bentley and the revival has already  been said, isn’t it?  So easy when there has been a public outcry after the fact, to try to cover your tracks, isn’t it? How do we even know Cain was supposed to come ‘back’ on the platform anyway?

Furthermore, even if the above is true, the fact is, these public lies were not publically retracted – as they should have been immediately   at the time. At best they were covered up. Unless you happen to know these were lies, you would be none the wiser today. That’s still a whopping big lie and Todd Bentley still allowed it. It completely lacks integrity.”

So that was  the state of play. Then we have something else thrown into the equation – a new version of events. The leaders of the revival probably realised that their first version was not good enough too, as although all the blame was put on Paul it still raised doubts in some peoples’ minds.  Todd Bentley is still left looking bad for not publically correcting Cain, and for allowhing him to speak in the first place, and some folk will put two and two together and figure, Well, if Paul Cain lied about that, maybe he has lied many times before, and other of these prophets lie too…. or better still  What spirit are these prophets really speaking by?

An article in Charisma Magazine   (online) dated 13th May, 4 days after Rick Joyner’s statement, and 6 days after Strang’s blog entry,  brings out a damage limitating account, which contradicts the first few accounts completely. And this new version comes out of the mouth of none other than Stephen Strader (do we really need to go into here the lies and fraud dogging the Strader family?). And it is published in no other than the magazine of Steve Strang, Strader’s long time friend. And Steve Strang, even knowing full well (by his own admission on his blog) that this new account was not true, allows it to be published! This version – if believed – (but it cannot be believed because of the other accounts, and also this article only covers ONE lie not two) leaves Paul Cain and Todd Bentley both in the clear. The conclusion does not raise any questions in anybody’s minds as to discernment or integrity or spirits they speak by, as it was all just a big misunderstanding. Perfect, if it was true.

“Paul Cain stirred controversy last week when he made comments before thousands of worshippers in Lakeland, Fla., that seemed to deny his past moral failings. The prominent 78-year-old prophetic minister told a crowd at a revival meeting in Lakeland that “allegations” and rumors circulating about him were not true.

But a senior spokesperson affiliated with what’s dubbed the Florida Outpouring told Charisma  that Cain was not denying his sins, but instead was attempting to refute any perception that he had not repented of them.

The comments made many wonder whether, in alluding to his past, Cain was withdrawing his confession from three years ago, when he publicly acknowledged his failings involving alcoholism and homosexuality.

“It was unfortunate that Paul said something [May 4] that has now been misunderstood,” said Stephen Strader, senior pastor at Ignited Church, a converted storefront on the north side of Lakeland that traveling evangelist Todd Bentley quickly outgrew after revival broke out on April 2.

“Initial reaction to Cain’s statements caused many to believe he was denying [his past sin],” Strader said. “But Paul was referring to the rumors that he had not been restored and had not gone through a restoration process. It was just totally misunderstood.”  {End times note: was his prophecy he has been celibate all his life equally misunderstood?)

Strader believes Cain’s restoration could be genuine. “Whether or not we agree with the group that restored him is irrelevant. He feels he’s been restored. Many people feel he’s been restored. We simply invited Paul to be present for when we replayed his prophecy from 1999.”

That prophecy, according to Cain’s Web site, involved a vision he had in 1999 where he saw “stadiums being filled in the last days” in Florida. Cain said astonishing miracles would take place and that the impact would eventually be felt globally.

“It would be presumptuous for us to say that this is it, but there is every indication that this is it,” Strader said of the prophecy. More than 10,000 people attended meetings each evening last weekend in Lakeland. Venues have included an arena, an open field and a stadium.

“This is day 41 and we are now fulfilling that prophecy, not because we wanted to, but because we’ve had to,” he said. “We did not plan to go to a stadium. It never even crossed our mind to go to a stadium. We were forced into a stadium because there wasn’t a large enough facility available to us.

“The only thing Paul was invited for was to honor him, honor the gift. We love Paul. He was not invited as a speaker. We honored the man, honored his years of service, and that was it. We did not restore him to ministry or anything.”

Though he did not respond to Charisma’s  attempt to seek further clarification, the following statement was posted on Cain’s Web site: “The allegations that Paul was referring to on Sunday in Florida as being untrue were simply allegations that he was unrepentant. Paul has repented of any wrongdoing publicly and has been fully forgiven and restored.”

Strader told Charisma  Cain had a stroke shortly after the incident last week, but is reportedly stable and recovering.”

So there we go, poor old Paul Cain, so misunderstood and perhaps a bit dottery with old age and sick. We should feel sorry for him if anything. All cleared up now. Nobody’s lied or been wrong after all. Everyone in the clear!

A lovely account – if it were true. It cannot be true because of what had already been published by several witnesses – including his own testimony to his best friend! And also like I said, it does not cover the second lie which was even more important anyway.

There seems to be a lot of covering up going on. All the accounts cannot be true! Someone high up is lying – or they all   are, as certain new prophets and apostles and their associates are known to do. I guess they see it as damage limitation, but to me, this just proves what I have asserted all along, that they are a corrupt bunch who lacking fear of God intentionally lie. There’s a lot of money to be made in this much hyped revival.

Update, Ist June, yet another version of events here More lies and contradictions

Here’s some more recent examples of lies from this bunch and their associates: Strange Manifestations on website  and here did Churck Pierce predict earthquake? and here third wave is here   not to forget here: faking it  and here gemstones fraud