The Gamaliel Approach to Todd Bentley & the Lakeland Outpouring
‘The Gamaliel Approach’ has been quoted a lot about the Lakeland Outpouring, to justify not speaking out about or criticising or ‘judging’ this movement and the doctrine and spirits behind it. The approach has frequently been posted into comments on this site, and on other forum boards, claiming to be the voice of ‘wisdom’ and ‘reason’. Even Jack Hayford, who should know a lot better, recently quoted Gamaliel’s words as a basis for his approach to spiritual discernment. Although I wrote how the Gamaliel Approach is not scriptural in an article about Jack Hayford’s statement on Lakeland here, I am reposting the Gamaliel Approach as an individual post as it is brought up so often by so many people. It needs to be vigorously refuted because it just ain’t scriptural!
The Gamaliel Position - a scriptural position or not? eg: currently understood re Lakeland as – Leave Todd Bentley and his ministry and movement alone, do not assess it or criticise it or take action about it, and if it is not of God it will die out by itself in time and fail.
Let’s look at what scripture says within context about who Gamaliel was, what Gamaliel actually said, and what he actually meant when he said the now oft-quoted words. Let’s also look at what Gamaliel did after speaking these words.
“When they heard this, they were furious and wanted to put them (the apostles) to death. But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law, who was honored by all the people, stood up in the Sanhedrin and ordered that the men be put outside for a little while. Then he addressed them: “Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men. Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing. After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered. Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God. ” (Acts 5:33-39)
Firstly, and most importantly, we see that Gamaliel was not a Christian, he was a zealous Jew opposed to Christianity on the persecutor’s side. Though he may well have trained Saul/Paul, remember Saul/Paul zealously killed Christians before he converted and later on looked back and considered himself an evil man and an enemy of God! Gamaliel may have taught Saul/Paul the law BUT it was Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit that showed Paul the truth and opened his eyes to it, not Gamaliel. The law brought death, and the Spirit brought life. Gamaliel was not inspired by the Holy Spirit and a friend of God, but Paul later was. So to quote and promote Gamaliels’s words, is to quote a zealous religiously blind persecutor and enemy of God, not an enlightened friend to the truth.
There is no evidence that what Gamaliel said was either scripturally sound or inspired by the Holy Spirit. Though his words are recorded in scripture, this does not mean them to be either right, wise or godly. God used what Gamaliel said to rescue the apostles from death, certainly, but it does not mean that his speech is therefore applicable and useful in any other contexts – especially when assessing Lakeland.
What Gamaliel said is not even true in a wider contect, for if we examine religious or political movements through history, we find many not of God have prospered from the world’s perspective, as has evil in general prospered. Look at the Roman Catholic church! Look at the Mormon Church! Look at the Moonies! Look at Scientology! The list goes on and on and on by human perspective. Indeed, even Gamaliel’s movement that was opposed to God lived on and persecuted and killed many of the saints! So Gamaliel’s words, as well as coming from an enemy of God and not being scriptural, are not logical or true in the context Lakeland supporters apply them.
Then go to the next verse, verse 40. ‘His speech persuaded them. They called the apostles in and had them flogged. Then they ordered them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.’
Gamaliel had the apostles flogged and ordered the apostles not to speak in the name of Jesus. This is the verse Jack Hayford and others conveniently ignore, for if Gamaliel was moved by the Spirit of God and was wise and prophetic, then we have to say the following action was right to! But it was clearly not right or godly – it was the actions of a religious persecutor who did not know the truth, and sought rather to suppress and silence it. So Gamaliel’s words come from an enemy of God who persecutes and silences the truth and the followers of the truth, and the words are not scriptural, not prophetic, not logical and not true.
It is also clear to me that Gamaliel did not think the apostles to be of God, or that he could be fighting against God by opposing them - nor did he even harbour any doubts as to the possibility this was so – because of the other people and failed rebellions and uprisings he compared them to, and also what happened subsequently with him having them flogged and silenced. He was using a form of logic to make a point, he was not really saying ‘IF these men are of God’, as for him there was no IF. So again, Gamaliel had made up his mind about the apostles and their way - he was not in any doubt as to it. If he was in any doubt and was ‘waiting and seeing’ their fruit, he would not have dared to publically flog or silence them. So Gamaliel’s words come from an enemy of God and persecutor, his words are not scriptural, not logical, not prophetic and not true, they come from someone who had already made up his mind as to the spiritual identity and the truth of the men he ‘judged’, and his words are currently used out of context as they’re not applicable for a situation where there is the possibility of any doubt on this matter!
To use Gamaliel’s expression then so completely out of context is theologically illiterate and unjustifiable as well as illogical. It cannot righly be applied to Lakeland by any stretch of the imagination.
Next, we need to realise that Gamaliel when talking about leaving the apostles ‘alone’, was speaking in the context of not having them killed. He was not talking about not speaking up about these men or judging or weighing up their theology as he had already done that. Because he had ‘judged them’, he took action by ordering them to be quiet about Jesus and punished them! So if we truly take Gamaliel’s approach, we order Todd Bentley to be silent and publically flog him for heresy! But I do not think Jack Hayford or any Todd Bentley supporters mean that – but they should if they use Gamaliel as an example to uphold and a role model. So Gamaliel’s words come from an enemy of God and persecutor, his words are not scriptural, not logical, not prophetic and not true, they are not applicable for a situation where there is any doubt, and if we follow them to the letter we should actually take action, speak up and silence and punish the false prophets and teachers (albeit not kill them). Gamaliel took action (albeit he discerned and judged wrongly), he did NOT sit on the fence to wait and see!
The Bible makes it abundantly clear that the church should not take a laissez-faire leave alone approach to false doctrine or false apostles or false prophets. It says that the church should vigorously work to keep from false doctrine and false spirits and false apostles infecting it by testing and weighing and judging as previously discussed. It should be on guard and its watchmen and shepherds must do their job and ensure stuff does not creep in unawares. When bad stuff is found within, it must be dealt with and ‘judged’ ruthlessly. When false servants are found, or unrepentent sincere heretics, we are ordered not to associate with such men or allow them to get to the flock.
The Gamaliel ‘wait and see’ ’sit on the fence’ approach is sadly not biblical, and it is partly thanks to shepherds and followers that quote this that the church is in such an apostate state as it is today. By the time the church at large wakes up, if ever, to Todd Bentley and his schemes and resounds the warnings, well it will be too late for many as the damage will be done. The biblical attitude to discernment is not of Gamaliel – either in its true or distorted form.
All Todd Bentley and Lakeland articles here
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It is sad to see how so called “Christians” spend time or waste time writing articles like these. I can see by this article that there is not a single drop of love in your heart or that the Holy Spirit lives in you. Be careful brother of speaking without knowing. I can personally testify that I was healed at one of the lakeland meeting. I was there just like you, skeptical to the whole thing; until God in his grace healed me from a bleeding ulcer in my stomach that I had for several months. Your comment on this outpouring only makes me think that you’re jealous instead of hungry for God. You don’t have to listen to me; but pray and seek God; remember what the bible said in Matthew 12:30: “He who is not with me is against me and he who does not gather with me scatters” Which side are you on. Do not by any means called God evil; read the entire passage of Matthews 12 and you will realize that even the Pharisees called him evil. If all you do is judge; then who are you to speak about Todd or if any about this revival. Have done anything else besides speaking about men and women of God. Have you preached the Gospel? Have you prayed for the sick? Please stop judging. This whole site is filled with Criticism but not one word of encouragement.
what about “many will come in the name of Jesus..” what about the fact that things that appear good may in fact be evil??
its not criticism–its warnings.
do not mix it up.
sometimes people CARE so much about people being led astray thatit sounds like reproach.
its like screaming to your child GET OUT OF THE STREET when a cr comes!!!
Oh Dario,Dario!
>>>not a single drop of love in your heart>>>
etc etc!
How judgemental of YOU. And how many more of you will there be? Read the whole site have you?
The Jesus I read about was tough with His warnings. Did He love those He warned? You bet He did.
I believe in healing, have been healed myself, have prayed for godly, wonderful people to be healed and they weren’t, have prayed for non-Christians to be healed and they have been! God is sovereign. God heals. That is not the issue here. It’s not about being critical or sceptical: it’s about Truth.
The Gamaliel Position – a scriptural position or not? It is amazing to see that Gamaliel (zealous priest – believer in Christ or not) had more understanding and fear of God then many people called “Christians” today. Read Amos 8:11. That is what it is happens today. God is the author of this hunger and thirst for more of Him. People are hungry and tired of religion and traditions of men. They do not want to just hear about God, but they want to know Him and experience His love and power in a deeper way. Wake up, go to Lakeland and be touched by His presence!
II Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap to themselves teachers vs 4. and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to FABLES!
The whole 2nd chapter of Colossians……
I know God heals, and no one is disputing the fact that God heals, but what you have here in Lakeland is a disquse of evil… yes I said it! It is new age gnostic teaching. People want the signs and wonders without holiness and repentance. Revival starts when the peoples hearts are turned back to God through holy living and repentence. What you have here in Lakeland is that Paul warned about in Col 2, what Jesus warned about….. and it appears that this so called revival is appeasing to the flesh because none of what is going on there is scriptural, it’s not truth of Gods Holy Word… and yes people so badly want to experince the power, and manafestation of God, they want to see signs and wonders that without discrening or seeking the face of God they just fall head 1st into it thinking awe.. yes this is it, this is what I’ve been waiting to see…. and they fall for it.. Then get defensive when all the warning cries go out. I have seen nothing fruitful come from this revival,, and if it is linked to the Toronto Blessing, and new age teaching that is on the rise in these last days then I want no part of it, and no other child of the Most High God, washed in the Blood of Jesus child should either.
However….. because we are seeing the last day signs coming to pass…. we see what 2 Tim 2:15-26 is talking about (approved and disapproved workers). God’s Word already has prepared us for times like this, things like Lakeland, and more things to come….
People please beware of the deception that is coming in the last and evil days… Hold fast your confession of Jesus Christ, His word, and His commandments.
Yeah Gamaliel had a lot of understanding. So much so that he had the apostles flogged and ordered them not to speak in the Lord’s name anymore.
“Lakeland is disguise of evil”…As it was in Jesus’ days so it is today…So let us read together:
Mat 12:24- But when the Pharisees heard [it], they said, This [fellow] doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
Mat 12:25- And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
Mat 12:26- And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
Mat 12:27- And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast [them] out? therefore they shall be your judges.
Mat 12:28- But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
The Kingdom of God is among us and He is bringing restoration, healing and deliverance among people in Lakeland as well in many other places. It is madness to deny such facts. Is this the work of the devil? Is Satan casting out Satan? Is it by Beelzebub casting out devils? Not at all. It is God’s work and not man.
People please beware for “because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold” Mat 24:12. Wake up!
Matthew 12:26 is an interesting verse. If Satan cast out Satan, then how shall his kingdom stand?
The Christians who use this verse to justify the ungodly goings on and false teachings of Bentley and others must ask themselves “Is Satan’s kingdom going to stand?” No. of course not. Satan knows it will not stand either but he is trying to deceive as many of you into hell that he can.
At judgment, The Lord is not going to buy the “serpent deceived me” excuse. He has given us too many warnings about being deceived and wolves in sheep’s clothing.Yes the days are very evil. We need to put on our full armor as Christians.
sentinelle:
I am not here, and I beleive others are not here to argue, but what we are here to do is the WARN… My suggestion to you is to spend time in prayer and line the total picture of what is happening in Lakeland with the WORD OF GOD. Also read the post on the Vision of the Acid Cloud in this blog as well.
To the person who asked – yes, you can copy and use any of my articles freely.
http://www.deceptionbytes.com/Todd-Bentleys-Fire-of-Kundalini….
unreal…. now Todd has reverted to putting people into a Full Nelson choke hold, and kicking people in the face!!! and this is a move of God??
Prepare Ye The Way!:
Have you been to the meetings at Lakeland? Have you seen through the Internet or TV what it is happening? God’s love and presence is so strong as people are being healed, delivered, set free and saved. Isn’t this the power of the gospel being manifest? This is not an argument, but testimony of God’s love to us. And this is not about Todd Bentley or any man. It is about God’s Kingdom being express in a powerful way. Don’t you want to experience God’s love in a deeper way? So, come and experience by yourself.
I pray your eyes can be opened so that you do not miss the opportunity that the Lord is giving us today to know Him in a deeper way.
You know I cant say that I have been to Lakeland, and honestly I dont have a desrie to be in Lakeland, I have watched what I can stand on TV and the internet and sentinelle I don’t feel the way you feel about this supposed revival. The word of God speaks very clearly about the things that are coming out of these meetings. No… this isnt about Todd Bently, however he is the vessel being used by seducing spirits that is infecting everything, and the reason that I say infecting is because people are going to get a touch and bringing it back to their local church…..
This is the trap…”A great move of God”…. just because God’s name is placed on a revival doesnt always mean Jehovah God is present, the Holy Spirit is present, Jesus is present… As I have admonished to you before, seek the face of God regarding this revival, be open to what the Lord will show you, and line up the revival with the Word of God (Line upon line, and precept upon precept)!
Listen.. it is not in my characther to be critcal, religious, or what have you but I understand the times that we live in and what our Savior Jesus Christ warned us about, and if it is right, I’ll say it, if it smells and looks like a rat, then I’ll say it smells and looks like a rat after spending time in prayer and researching the happenings against the Word, and if I am to sound the warning alarm, then that is what I’ll do b/c as brothers in sisters in Christ we need to look after one another, and give warnings where they are needed b/c now is not the time to fall off track, now is not the time to decide to walk down the broad path which leads to destruction. I would want someone to warn me too!!!
Now that i sit and recall the times here in this year the times I have spent in prayer and recalling what the Lord spoke to me in my private time with Him is “Stay close the Me”, or “It saddens the Fathers heart over those that didnt remain next to Me” meaning people that were close to Him that fall away over some form or fashion… You know I live in America, and I know for America we are about to something major here in this country…
So my point in going there is this….. I want to be warned of a snake hidding in the grass, I want to remain close to Jesus, I want to experience a deeper relationship with Him, but not to the extreme where I have to do it in an arena where no sound doctrine or no real power of the Holy Spirit is present but another spirit (demonic) is present…. Jesus didnt shed His blood for that…. He defeated death, sin, hell and the grave, and was risen with all power and authority giiven to Him, and every tool that we need as children of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ has been given to us to be able discren good from evil, and right from wrong, but it is a choice that made, and we see all through the Bible were God will not override man’s will to choose, He will lay the consequences out there just like He did in Deut 28.
Either you will be Sold out (for Jesus) or just Sold (on and for anything)!!!
Prepare Ye The Way -
Well said
The best place we can be safe against any evil attack and of “snake hiding in the grass” is to be where He is. Being under His wings of love is the best place we can be. And if He moves, we move with Him. This is what it is happening today. God is doing a new thing and only those with “new wine skins” will be able to capture what He is doing. Can’t you see? Let us do what Jesus told us to do – check “their fruits”. What are the fruits coming out of Lakeland? I have been there and I can testify – Luke 7:22 “Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.”
So come with an open heart, believe and receive all that He has for those that are hungry and thirsty for Him!
I can not attack Todd personally because I don’t know him and I can not say whether or not he is a sincere believer yas it is God’s place to judge that. What I can and will attack is the deceptive and hollow philosophy that people are falling into. Just because there are miracles, signs, and wonders does not validate this as being of God. I have no doubt that God is somehow at work for he works in spite of man’s folly to accomplish his purposes and His will. However, I can see with confidence that there is more confusion being caused by these so-called revival movements than belief. Yes, the supernatural is real. Yes God does still work miracles, signs, and wonders. But miracles, signs, and wonders should not and can not be the basis of our faith as we have seen in these so-called revival movements. We are so anxious to see the results of God in tangible form that we neglect to realize that God is at work even when we don’t see Him. That’s why movements like Lakeland become an overnight phenomenon with many- because we are anxious to see the product of God’s work at hand. But that’s the problem- God’s work is not a product that we put on dsplay. Rather it is intangible and often unseen. God is at work always not because of our faith but because of His faithfulness. It starts through pursuing him personally in fellowship and prayer and seeking him through the reading of His Word. That is what genuine revival is all about.
The most notable thing about the Todd Bentley “revival” is its fulfillment of Jesus’ words in Mt.24:24, “For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great miraculous signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God’s chosen ones” (NLT). In other words the obvious distinguishing feature, Jesus said, of the false preachers of the last days will be great miracles. Jesus also said, “Only an evil, faithless generation would ask for a miraculous sign…” Mt.16:4. The only Biblical criteria for assessing spiritual leaders, Jesus said, is spiritual fruit growing out of obedience to Him. Therefore miracles without obvious spiritual fruit are demonic. Mt 7:15 “Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep, but are really wolves that will tear you apart. You can detect them by the way they act, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit. You don’t pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles. A healthy tree produces good fruit, and an unhealthy tree produces bad fruit. A good tree can’t produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit. So every tree that does not produce good fruit is chopped down and thrown into the fire. Yes, the way to identify a tree or a person is by the kind of fruit that is produced. Not all people who sound religious are really godly. They may refer to me as `Lord,’ but they still won’t enter the Kingdom of Heaven. The decisive issue is whether they obey my Father in heaven. On judgment day many will tell me, `Lord, Lord, we prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ But I will reply, `I never knew you. Go away; the things you did were unauthorized’” (NLT). What are the fruits of the Holy Spirit? Gal 5:22 “But when the Holy Spirit controls our lives, he will produce this kind of fruit in us: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control” (NLT). I do not see these fruits in the Lakeland “revival” and I hear and see innumerable unbiblical claims. Signs and wonders, in and of themselves, are never proofs of the Truth.
Also consider the foxes …
Song of Solomon 2:15
Catch the foxes for us, the little foxes that are ruining the vineyards, while our vineyards are in blossom.
I was thinking about little foxes when I noticed that they ruin the vineyard not when there are grapes on the vine — but when the vineyards are in blossom or bloom. This struck me because I’d always thought these foxes wanted to ‘eat’ grapes. Vineyards in blossom have no fruit!
I found an explanation in the following commentary …
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
15. Transition to the vineyard, often formed in “stairs” (So 2:14), or terraces, in which, amidst the vine leaves, foxes hid.
foxes-generic term, including jackals. They eat only grapes, not the vine flowers; but they need to be driven out in time before the grape is ripe. She had failed in watchfulness before (So 1:6); now when converted, she is the more jealous of subtle sins (Ps 139:23). In spiritual winter certain evils are frozen up, as well as good; in the spring of revivals these start up unperceived, crafty, false teachers, spiritual pride, uncharitableness, &c. (Ps 19:12; Mt 13:26; Lu 8:14; 2Ti 2:17; Heb 12:15). “Little” sins are parents of the greatest (Ec 10:1; 1Co 5:6). Historically, John the Baptist spared not the fox-like Herod (Lu 13:32), who gave vine-like promise of fruit at first (Mr 6:20), at the cost of his life; nor the viper-Sadducees, &c.; nor the varied subtle forms of sin (Lu 3:7-14).
The time to prepare for the harvest is when the vineyard is in bloom,
before the fruit becomes visible.
******Little Foxes Become Full Grown******
Some observations
* Song 2:15 is about ‘Little Foxes’
These foxes ‘eat’ grapes
The time to deal with them is when they are small — before the fruit appears
If they are not dealt with, they grow up and become full grown foxes
* Ezekeil 13 is about full grown Foxes
Full grown foxes are false prophets who propesy out of their own
… imaginations
They have grown unchalleneged and undealt with to such an extent that
… they are no longer
… connected to the Head Col 2:18-19
Instead of dealing with the error or false teachings/prophesies, a
whitewash has occurred.
Ezek 13
… when a flimsy wall is built, they cover it with whitewash, 11 therefore tell those who cover it with whitewash that it is going to fall. Rain will come in torrents, and I will send hailstones hurtling down, and violent winds will burst forth. 12 When the wall collapses, will people not ask you, “Where is the whitewash you covered it with?”
see also steve lumbley’s take on this http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2009/05/30/gamaliel%e2%80%99s-advice-%e2%80%93-the-refuge-of-wolves-scoundrels-and-con-men/