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Signs of times – “No Witnessing, This is a Muslim Area”

This comes not from the Middle East but Middle England -

“Two Christian preachers were stopped from handing out Bible extracts by police because they were in a Muslim area, it was claimed yesterday.

They say they were told by a Muslim police community support officer that they could not preach there and that attempting to convert Muslims to Christianity was a hate crime. The community officer is also said to have told the two men: ‘You have been warned. If you come back here and get beat up, well, you have been warned.’

A police constable who was present during the incident in the Alum Rock area of Birmingham is also alleged to have told the preachers not to return to the district. It comes amid growing concern over the development of Islamic ‘no-go areas’.

The preachers, Americans Arthur Cunningham and Joseph Abraham, are demanding an apology and compensation from West Midlands Police. They say their treatment breaks the Human Rights Act, which guarantees freedom of religious expression. The preachers, who have the backing of the Christian Institute pressure group, say they will take the force to court for breaching their human rights if they don’t receive an apology.

They have accused the officer, PCSO Naeem Naguthney, of behaving in an ‘aggressive and threatening’ manner. A complaint by their lawyers said he interrupted as they spoke to Muslim youths about their beliefs.

Mr Abraham, 65, who was born a Muslim in Egypt and is a convert to Christianity, said: ‘He told us we were trying to convert Muslims to Christianity and that that was a hate crime. He was very intimidating and it concerns me that somebody holding his views can become a police officer, albeit at PCSO level.’

Mr Cunningham, 48, a fellow American Baptist missionary, said: ‘He realised we were Americans and then started ranting at us about George Bush and American foreign policy. He said we were in a Muslim area and were not allowed to spread our Christian message. He said he was going to take us to the police station.’

Mr Cunningham added: ‘I am dumfounded that the police seem so nonchalant. They seem content not to make it clear that what we were doing was perfectly legal. This is a free country and to suggest we were guilty of a hate crime for spreading God’s word is outrageous.’

According to a complaint by the men’s lawyers, Mr Naguthney summoned two other officers in support, one of whom, a full constable, is said to have told the men not to return to the area.

Mr Naguthney, 30, was recruited as a community support officer last year after being unemployed for eight months.

Earlier this year, he had a prominent role at a conference to launch the West Midlands branch of the National Association of Muslim Police. He gave a reading from the Koran before the audience heard a recorded contribution from Gordon Brown, a speech from Home Office Minister Tony McNulty, and contributions from several chief constables.

Mr Naguthney declined to discuss the row.

His brother, Nadeem, said: ‘Naeem is a community man, that is why he joined the police.’

The Alum Rock area was at the heart of a terrorism inquiry last year, which ended with the conviction of local resident Parviz Khan for plotting to kidnap and behead a British soldier.

A senior Church of England bishop, the Right Reverend Michael Nazir-Ali, warned recently that it is hard for non-Muslims to live and work in some areas where radicals and clerics are trying to impose an Islamic character.

A West Midlands Police spokesman said an investigation into the complaint had concluded that the PCSO had acted ‘with the best of intentions’ when he ‘intervened to diffuse a heated argument between two groups of men’.

A statement added: ‘Following this investigation, the PCSO has been offered guidance about what constitutes a hate crime and advice on communication style.’”

Article from The Daily Mail, June 2nd

June 5, 2008 - Posted by endtimespropheticwords | Evangelism and Missions, Islam, News, Politics | , , , | 24 Comments

24 Comments »

  1. No doubt and I was a little surprised when my article appeared at the same time this one did about “End Times”. It’s coming very fast. I’ve also heard it suggested that perhaps a fairly new politician in the US may be part of the above you wrote about.

    Comment by josephudo | June 5, 2008

  2. The police were, I’m sure, ridiculous. But the two preachers were also stupid. It think we all know that one shouldn’t preach the Muslims or even try to convert them to Jesus’ worshipers. Why do Christians always hunt for Muslims? Why do you Christians are so freaky about ’saving souls’? I’m not a Muslim myself. I’ve been a ‘good’ Christian for 15 years and that’s enough. I’m an agnostic now because of things like those preachers do. And that is crime. Indeed.

    Comment by Yella Ojrak | June 5, 2008

  3. It shames me to think England is coming to this. Where is the hate in wanting the best for people for eternity? I am sure these men would not have thought to convert Muslims by force. That is forbidden by The Bible.

    Comment by Eve | June 5, 2008

  4. Yella,

    You stated you were a Christian for 15 years. What did you do for the fifteen years?
    Jesus said first deny your self, pick up your cross, and follow him. (surrender all)

    Did you do that?

    It is also written and we are commanded by Jesus Christ to go out and save souls as you described it.We are to preach the Good News which is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    Jesus Christ also said you will be deceived and fooled in the last days. Jesus said to look on him only and not the things of this world..meaning, pastors,and tachers.

    Are you worried about what other people do, and what is going on in the world or are you looking soley to him?

    Examine Your self.

    Are you already giving up, do you think Christianity is easy. Jesus stated if they hated me they will hate you and there will be persecution.

    Wake up, this is the devils plan to pull you away and to look at the world and things of this world.

    These preachers are going out with the instruction of the Holy Spirit to lead Muslims to the Lord. Praise God! Do you realize that there are over 1 billion Muslims in the world now and that they want to convert the whole world to Islam or be be-headded.

    Now, you can just go on doing your thing ,or maybe you can make a difference by changing somthing like ,recycling ,or, by changing the global warming, or changing politics but the only way you make a difference in this world is by changing the hearts of men by sharing the Good News of Jesus Christ.

    Comment by Ethan | June 5, 2008

  5. Uh-oh… Your preaching was what I’ve heard everyday for 15 years.

    I know there are a billion Muslims out there, and some of them are carrying bombs in their bags. But I also know that there are many more people that are Christians occupying this world and I see they’re making the Muslim get even more furious. That means Christians are involved in bringing down hell into this world. And if there were more Christians being slaughtered by the Muslims, I would think it’s the Christians own fault. Because I believe Jesus NEVER taught his followers to show love to others, and one of the traits of love is acceptance. Accept others as they are. And Jesus taught to save the souls that’s lost. And ‘lost’ is relative. The Muslims don’t think they’re lost. Instead, they think the Christians are the ones whose souls are lost. Jesus command you to save the lost. And to my belief, the lost are not those who already believe in God in other religion. The the lost are those who doesn’t know what to believe in, or where to go, where to stand. The lost are those who doesn’t have a concept of right-and-wrongs.

    So Christians should seek for that kind of people. Not hunting those who already have some belief. Trying to convert people who already believe in something is a violation. If Christians do that then they’re no different than the Muslims whom you think are lost. That means they’re just as lost.

    I suggest you to drop off your Christian arrogance. Read your bible with open pure heart, open pure mind — so you see the true meaning of what Jesus taught you there. Stop mistaking Jesus.

    I’m not a Christian. But it doesn’t mean I don’t believe in Jesus. I believe in Jesus, only not in the way the Christians do. To me, Muslims, Christians, or any other ‘beliefs’ are just labels. They’re just organisation. That’s why I dropped my Christianity off. Goodness is in the heart, not in the church.

    Comment by Yella Ojrak | June 5, 2008

  6. I’m not a Christian. But it doesn’t mean I don’t believe in Jesus. I believe in Jesus, only not in the way the Christians do.

    And, that, unfortunately is the difference. Jesus is not the way you portray him. Just a cursory reading of the Bible will show Jesus’ anger at the Pharisees who believed in God (and in Jesus — they just didn’t think Jesus was really Him). And, yes, Christians are told to make disciples (of Jesus):

    19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” [Matthew 28:19-20 NIV]

    Muslims and Christians do not worship the same God as Muslims deny the Trinity (as I’ve highlighted above).

    Comment by Lee | June 5, 2008

  7. I meant, Jesus taught his followers bla-bla-bla (drop the ‘NEVER’).

    And one more thing. I don’t hate Jesus. He’s my friend. So there won’t be any prosecution for me. Besides, Jesus is nice. If he meant to prosecute anyone he would let himself be crucified. Remember that Jesus forgiven those who crucified him. That is the Jesus that I know of.

    Comment by Yella Ojrak | June 5, 2008

  8. I meant, he would NOT let himself be crucified.

    I’m sorry, that made you read things twice.

    Comment by Yella Ojrak | June 5, 2008

  9. Yella,

    The Jesus Christ of the Christian faith IS nice, merciful, gracious; but, He’s also a God of justice and wrath. Yes, I wrote “God” as he is part of the Trinity including Father God, Jesus Christ (the Messiah) the Son and the Holy Spirit.

    Comment by Lee | June 5, 2008

  10. Yeah, of course. That’s why I can claim myself God too. Because I’m nice, merciful and gracious. I also stand for justice, and get angry sometimes.

    Jesus, gimme a break…

    Comment by Yella Ojrak | June 6, 2008

  11. Yella,

    Your Jesus is one of your making. The Jesus of the Bible is quite different. And, He is the only way to salvation [John 3:16, 14:6]. Apparently you do not believe this; but, that doesn’t mean it isn’t so. You may think I’m wrong; but, we’ll all find out for sure one day…

    Comment by Lee | June 6, 2008

  12. Yella,

    You don’t have to agree.
    But neither have you to make yourself a laughing stock by making preposterous claims.

    As for your believing in Jesus, you claim to do so, but yet you refuse to acknowledge His own claims to godhood.

    Perhaps you believe in him as a “good moral teacher”. But how can anyone be a good moral teacher if he lies, about being god. That person is either a deceiver, or if sincere, stark raving mad. I neither case would such person be a “good moral teacher”.

    The third option, is the one you reject, that He Himself spoke the truth about Himself.

    Comment by JPvB | June 6, 2008

  13. Jesus is in the heart, not in the comment form. So I’m over with you guys. I don’t want to be as pathetic as those two preachers in yours story.

    Just remember:
    Leave the Muslims alone or I’ll have to drop water into your mouth someday, after death.

    Ciao!

    Comment by Yella Ojrak | June 7, 2008

  14. Leave the Muslims alone or I’ll have to drop water into your mouth someday, after death.

    What is that about? Is this part of Islamic doctrine?

    Comment by Lee | June 7, 2008

  15. I was saying ‘Ciao’ for ‘Ciao’ but now I must be back again to say this:

    Use Your Brains!
    god gave you brains for you to wear out, not freeze them over. Use your brains to read those comments I’ve made.

    Comment by Yella Ojrak | June 7, 2008

  16. More likely some sort of hindu doctrine…

    “Disposal of the Dead — The Davre Jogis bury their dead in a sitting posture, with the face turned towards the east. The corpse is taken to the burial ground in a zoli or bag of cloth, the funeral procession being accompanied with music made by the beating of drums and the blowing of shingis or horn pipes. Before burial, the body is smeared with vibhuti (cowdung ashes), bel (Aegle Marmelos) leaves and flowers are offered to it, and water is poured into its mouth. It is then lowered into the grave and”

    “Disposal of the Dead — When a Raval is on the point of death, a few drops of Ganges water and some cow’s urine are poured into his mouth.”

    However, it seems, but i may be mistaken, that Yella herself is Javanese, and possibly Muslim.

    Comment by JPvB | June 7, 2008

  17. So it’s true. Your christianity has blinded you. You don’t even remember there’s one piece in the bible that says something about being in hell and it’s so hot that you beg for anyone to drop water into your mouth. That’s what I meant. I never mentioned ‘urine’. How paranoid!

    And just because I’m a Javanese, you think I’m a Muslim? I pity you. Really. My heart is breaking now because of you, guys. You’re so blinded.

    I shouldn’t ever have said anything here. Really. So go on with thinking whether Yella is a Muslim whatever you like. It’s just label to me. I wouldn’t mind. You may even call me Satan if you like, or Bitch, whatever. Christians, Muslims, Satans, Bitches, are just labels to me. Nothing more.

    Comment by Yella Ojrak | June 7, 2008

  18. [...] heart is breaking again 7 06 2008 Just because I’m a Javanese, these people think that I’m a [...]

    Pingback by My heart is breaking again « `Ojrak!’ | June 7, 2008

  19. Yella

    So now you are claiming persecution for people saying you are NOT a biblically based Christian?!! Nobody is persecuting you here, merely telling you the truth that you are NOT a biblically based Christian. Nobody was nasty to you, they just pointed out the facts, which you do not like. But you cannot dispute these facts as the Bible is the evidence.

    YOU are the one who had the harsh words here, and if anything are doing the persecuting. If you do not like your view challenged, or responded to, then you should stop blogging til you grow up a bit and can take responsibility for what you say. And isn’t it kind and not harsh for another to flick on the lightswitch when someone else is stumbling around in darkness, rather than leave them stumbling in the dark?

    I could not care less what your ethnicity is, or where you live. The Javanese comment was because of what YOU said about adding water drops after death. You can carry on believing we are all gods within, and we should not evangelise, etc etc, but don’t say you are biblically correct or a biblical Christian or even a follower of Jesus Christ – because you ain’t, like someone else said, it is all in your head, following a god of your own making. And no amount of boo hoos feeling sorry for yourself on your blog is going to change the reality of that. The Bible is the evidence of this.

    If you want to be a follower of Christ, then follow Him. But stop pretending to or making it up as you go along.

    Comment by endtimespropheticwords | June 7, 2008

  20. I never said I was biblically correct. Again, you don’t read me using your brains. Let me make it clear.

    I don’t believe in the bible, OR ANY HOLY BOOKS.

    And you think your darkness is dark to everyone else? Everybody has their own perspective of truth. That means, anyone could think that YOU ARE the one who lives in the darkness.

    Comment by Yella Ojrak | June 8, 2008

  21. Yella -

    Who said you DID say you were a biblical Christian? I didn’t – all we said was that you weren’t one, and you could go be and do whatever you want, but if you value truth don’t claim to be a true follower of Christ because you are not as you do not obey him or honor his word – and because of this statement – factual statement, not rudeness – you boo hoo on your blog about being so hurt and persecuted by us? For what exactly? You were the only one being rude.

    Christ said he was the only way, truth and life. Nobody comes to God but through Him. To deny this is to deny him. How can you then be a follower of his by any means?

    If you said you were a believer and follower in William Shakespeare and denied all his words, and made it up as you went along, that would also be rather odd, no? Would people be cruel if you they said to you Shakespeare did not say something he clearly did not? No, they’d be being honest.

    Comment by endtimespropheticwords | June 8, 2008

  22. ps

    Do you want to shout and complain about racism while you are at it?

    Comment by endtimespropheticwords | June 8, 2008

  23. You don’t even remember there’s one piece in the bible that says something about being in hell and it’s so hot that you beg for anyone to drop water into your mouth.

    The problem here is that we don’t share a common point of reference with regard to beliefs. In the Bible hell is a place of ‘unquenchable fire’ yes; but, there will be no one to provide even one drop of water. With ‘unquenchable fire’ all about, how could you or anyone ‘drop water’ into anyone’s mouth? The Bible is clear that no one’s thirst will be quenched.

    I believe in the entirety of the Bible — that is, all must be taken into account. You apparently believe in picking and choosing and adding your own views. This is why I couldn’t understand your comment. Additionally, since I do not know all the tenets of the Muslim faith, my question was out of ignorance and was not meant to attack you in any way. In fact, it was a general question to anyone to respond to. Given that you said ‘ciao’ I assumed you were not going to come back here to comment.

    You are free to believe what you like. God gives us all free will. But, I would like to see you come to a saving knowledge of our LORD Jesus Christ. Hopefully, some day, your eyes will be opened by the Holy Spirit.

    Comment by Lee | June 8, 2008

  24. Yella, you have six days (on the seventh you must rest):

    -build your own, full-scale universe.
    -populate it (not with earthly life forms – no copying of already existing physical creation allowed).
    -make sure all laws of nature are in place (be original here).

    No computer-designs allowed, nor are you allowed to “build” your creation in software; it must all be physical, 1:1 size ratio to our God’s creation.

    Then, i might consider your statement to be God, partially acceptable.

    Comment by J | February 5, 2009


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