End Times Prophetic, Prophecy, Visions, Dreams, Revelation, Christian Blog

Christian prophecy for the church and for the nations from a servant of God called to speak God’s word

Chuck Pierce, Robert Heidler respond to Kabbalah charge

Article by Wyatt Roberts – once again, another good article!

“Sigh.

Chuck Pierce and his pastor, Robert Heidler, have posted an article in which they purport to explain the difference between what they teach and the Jewish occultic practice of Kabbalah.

I have read the article, located here http://www.glory-of-zion.org/20080801_Hebraic_Understanding_versus_Kabbalah.doc, several times.

Basically, the document is little more than a blanket denial of charges that Pierce and Heidler are teaching Kabbalah, rather than the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

I have written several articles exposing the Kabbalistic nature of Pierce’s and Heidler’s teaching, none of which is mitigated one iota by anything Pierce and Heidler say in their article.

I had hoped to put this business about Pierce, Heidler and Kabbalah behind me. Frankly, I have much better things to do with my time. However, I feel compelled to respond.

And so, in the coming days, I will present more information here about the undeniable link between Kabbalah and the teachings of Chuck Pierce and Robert Heidler. In the meantime, I urge you to read this incredible story from a former student who attended the Issachar School run by Pierce and Heidler. It’s a first-hand account of what Pierce and Heidler teach, and it is absolutely incredible. Here’s an excerpt:

“JoAnn McFatter [an Issachar School instructor] got into some stuff that seems kind of whacky to me and apparently Chuck wasn’t there in the room. ‘DNA hold memory, sins, etc’. ‘[we] can talk with animals’….Then the ‘plants have emotions’. That was the 2nd time I’d heard that in 2 months time when I heard that on the DVD. Are you guys getting a little OUT THERE or am I being stretched?

I trust Chuck and Robert absolutely implicitly. I trust Robert because Chuck does…However, I can find nothing in scripture that says plants have emotions and we can talk with the animals. True, I find nothing in scripture on other things too, but this, I am questioning.

JoAnn goes on to say when a word is released from a mouth in heaven, comes a numeric equation, music, a color of light, a fragrance. HUH?

Then, she says what new agers say: fragrances have frequencies. So tell me. Am I to believe what JoAnn says? If so, then MOST of what the newagers say is right on. Then how do I tell the difference between what is Godly and what is satanic?

JoAnn McFatter says the trees talked to her at a church.

The DVD blanked out where she said something about walking on water and how we can pass through a wall…Chuck Pierce [says] sounds are connected with everything and every tabernacle. How do I find out what sound is connected with me?

Chuck Pierce said, when starting to talk on movement…’I'm sure JoAnn has taught on this’. No, she hadn’t, not at all. JoAnn tends to go on and on and on…So what musical notes go with what essential oils? JoAnn mentioned something about it. And if there is one note God tells me about, say, for coriander, is that the same note worldwide or just for that person? And who is to determine which notes go with what fragrances?

JoAnn says colors heal. So do non-Christians. She says paintings heal and everyone has lots of creativity. I knew that, and am SO glad someone else says it to back me up!

This DVD set skips and goes back and forth and blanks out. When JoAnn is talking mostly.

I think it’s totally irresponsible of Glory of Zion, Chuck Pierce, Robert Heidler and JoAnn McFatter to say all of the above and yet not explain anything, to expect people to take what they say on face value without any explanations or reasonings, just nothing!”

“McFatter seems to be into witchcraft. This is very disturbing since Issachar School, run by Chuck Pierce and Robert Heidler is purportedly Christian. She spoke of trees talking to her, of animals being able to speak and commune with humans. She spoke on rocks having frequencies, which in turn, would mean they heal, as those into witchcraft believe. Since no one at the Issachar school is willing to answer questions, it’s left up to the thoughts and imaginations of those taking the ‘classes’ to try to figure out exactly what is going on with these teachings. It certainly robs me of trust I had in Chuck Pierce and his ministry.”

If you would like to read more of this fascinating, first-hand account, it’s located here http://www.my-walk-with-god.com/issacharschool.php

Lest Pierce attempt to create the impression that McFatter is just a loose cannon and doesn’t really represent Pierce’s and Heidler’s more “mainstream” views, keep in mind, she is a co-instructor, along with Pierce and Heidler, on this Issachar School DVD (entitled “Worship Sound and Movement”). Judging from the review, they apparently edited out some of McFatter’s stranger comments.

In any case, here’s a “Word from the Lord,” written by Chuck Pierce, Robert Stearns and JoAnn McFatter in which they claim gold dust magically appeared from heaven during a meeting in 2005. Here’s the Issachar School description of the class, here’s JoAnn McFatter’s home page (bizarre) and here’s a Glory of Zion newsletter in which Pierce promotes the class to be taught by McFatter:

“The Issachar School: Worship, Sound and Movement by Jo Ann McFatter (June 11-13)

I am so excited about our next Issachar School course on June 11-13 [2006]. Following the Pentecost Celebration we will have Jo Ann McFatter teaching on Worship, Sound and Movement. I will be teaching along with her and we will be experimenting with sound and movement. I’ll have a full worship team there that will assist us in connecting heaven and earth.

Most all of you know that Jo Ann is a well known teacher, psalmist, and minstrel. Her CDs are some of the best in the Kingdom of God. Even if you haven’t signed up for an Issachar School course before, you probably will want to be at this one.”

August 5, 2008 - Posted by endtimespropheticwords | Chuck Pierce, False Prophets and Teachers, Issachar School, JoAnn McFatter, Kabbalah, New Age, New Apostolic Reformation (NAR), Prophecy, Robert Heidler, signs and wonders | , , , , | 29 Comments

29 Comments »

  1. I went to that above link. Exactly who is it in the link that wrote all that stuff? It made my head spin trying to understand it all. It sounds like a young child with an over active imagination and one who wants POWER but is fearful on what may be the source. The source is demonic and witchcraft. Is the person a young person or what?

    You mean someone IN the church is really teaching this stuff? (Why am I surprised, sigh) Sorry if you have to explain it again. I found the link hard to follow. Sounds like someone is getting ready to lose their marbles and I really really feel for them.

    Comment by redeemedhippie | August 5, 2008

  2. McFatter is either into Gaia worship, panentheism (God is in all) or both. This is NOT Christianity.

    Comment by Lee | August 5, 2008

  3. Of course animals can talk to us. Remember the serpent!

    Comment by kathy | August 5, 2008

  4. The church we run is Messianic and we meet on Saturdays. I must confess that i feel the Hebrew Roots movement in general, and these folk in particular are into some weird stuff. There is so much in the Bible as it stands. I just do not understand why they have to pay so much attention to men who have no relationship with God.
    Of course, we need to understand the mind and culture of the people who wrote Scripture, but we do not have to espouse the superstition of those the lived amongst.
    God nowhere tells us there are secret codes or mystic interpretations of His word. Even the Rabbis tell their people not to study Kabbalah or it will send them mad. We wonder if this is behind much of the madness in the church today.

    There seems to be a feeling that the Bible is not enough. It takes many forms and is very dangerous. Christians seem to hang on every word of such people and do not weigh what is said. Teachers like Perry Stone take Kabbalistic and Jewish tradition and impose them on the church.

    We celebrate Biblical festivals, but do not include Jewish tradition. Many Messianics seem unaware there is a difference and that Jewish tradition can just as easily have pagan roots as can that we find in the church.

    Comment by Eve | August 5, 2008

  5. redeemedhippie: Wyatt Roberts wrote the article above. The first article linked to is by Chuck Pierce and Robert Hediler, the second link to was a student of the Issachar School that was linked to because of their source for information, not because of their discernment or theology.

    Comment by endtimespropheticwords | August 5, 2008

  6. Can someone give us a brief idiot’s guide to Kabbalah?

    Comment by endtimespropheticwords | August 5, 2008

  7. Hi Miriam. Ever heard of people who believe it is possible to be a Christian witch? Here is an article from an individual who believes it is.

    http://www.witches-tutorial.com/paths/cw.html
    What Is Christian Witchery?
    By Tara
    Christian Witchery, as I see it, is the combination of a Christian religious viewpoint and the actual practice of magic and ritual. In order to properly understand the significance of Christian Witchery, it is necessary to understand what kind of Christianity is being practiced; likewise, what kind of magic is to be practiced.
    For one to become a Christian Witch, one’s understanding of Christianity must be relatively liberal. Taking the Bible as one’s only source for spiritual knowledge is a valid enough path, but it would be immensely difficult to incorporate that with magical practice. Another definition of Christianity would be much more flexible: a path that incorporates a version of Jesus at least loosely based on Biblical (or Gnostic Christian/rejected canon) sources as its central figure. Someone who believes strongly in Jesus Christ (and God, and the Holy Spirit, either as three separate entities with one divine essence or three aspects of the All) can potentially still practice magic.

    The definition of magic is also important. By magic, are you referring to the desire to cast love spells on your crush? Are you referring to more advanced Kabalistic ceremonies, or the Golden Dawn esoteric rituals? Do you love the rituals and “poetic aspects” of witchcraft? Do you enjoy practicing magic and being able to make changes in the world through supernatural means? Is magic to you venerating nature? Honestly, becoming a Christian Witch is not necessary for one to venerate nature; one can still be an environmentalist and love the earth and celebrate its seasons without practicing magic. If you are only into magic to cast a single love spell or be “cool,” it’s probably not your path. Magic, while it may not have any spiritual connotations still should not be something to be taken lightly. The symbolism of magic and spell craft are not exclusive to these things. It is possible to call yourself a Christian mystic and perform religious prayer rituals that do not incorporate actual magic and changes caused by the individual as opposed to a deity (this will be covered further in the “So You Want to Be a [Christian] witch section). If you feel that you can and desire to make changes in your world through working and practicing magic, but you simultaneously believe in the Christian tenets, then the practice of Christian Witchery may be right for you. While it is difficult to define magic, due to conflicting definitions, a good definition as defined by Crowley is “the art and science of change in conformity to will.”

    One cannot take Christianity and Witchcraft, even when one has defined them, and slap them together and call it a system. There are still limitations where some parts of Christianity cancel magical practices out. For example, the importance placed on love and forgiveness in Christian belief would restrict “harmful” spells. While it is fine for some witches to cast curses, and it does not go against their ethical code, when a potential Christian witch is practicing magic, he or she must take into consideration her own ethical code. Also, with Christianity’s worship of God and the belief in His presence in all things, I believe that magic would be hard to separate from spiritual and religious presence in rituals.

    So, why become a Christian Witch? Simply, if both Christianity and witchcraft are part of your spiritual/magical/supernatural beliefs, and you are willing to “compromise” in some cases parts of your beliefs in which the acts or faiths of one cancel each other out, you may be a match for Christian Witchcraft. If you are unwilling to not take the entire Bible literally, or if you do not want to be restricted by parts of Christian belief that would inhibit your magic, perhaps it is better for you to limit yourself to one practice.

    The most important thing to remember is that religion is deeply personal. Your personal relationship with the divine transcends any piece of literature, whether a Book of Shadows or the Bible, that states what the right path is. If you disagree with this article, it is, after all, a piece of literature, and your religious practices are your own business. In religion, where nothing is definite, it is better to “pick and choose” beliefs than to take a mold that does not fit who you are. If it doesn’t feel right, don’t do it. But if it does, there is no reason to change your practices and beliefs.

    Hellfire Fears:
    It is nearly impossible to have encountered Christian Witchery without ever hearing threats of Hell coming from either side, as well as others who say that Christian Witchery is impossible without a literal translation of the Bible.

    Is that really true? The Bible is not taken literally by a great number of practicing Christians today; my Episcopalian congregation, for example, takes the Bible as a guideline, but not necessarily the be all and end all of the Christian faith. But even looking at the Bible, it can be seen that possibly Witchcraft condemned in the Bible may refer to pure malignant witchery. Seeing as those who are not followers of the Bible are not bound by Biblical law, and those who are Christian witches and that follow the Bible already have a “Harm None” clause in their ethical system, it is not difficult for Christian Witches to follow this rule. The original Hebrew word in the Old Testament in the famed passage “thou shalt not suffer a witch to live” (Exodus 22:18) was not witch but m’kashepah, meaning a woman who uses spoken spells to harm others.(1)

    In Deuteronomy 18:10-11, seven other Hebrew words are used, in addition to m’kashepah, most of which refer to others who contact the dead or spirits that are not “of God.” A few, however, refer to those who practice divination. Again, however, it is a purely personal decision whether to follow the Bible totally in these cases. In the New Testament, the original word now taken to mean “witch” in Galatians 5:19-20 and Revelations 21:8 was the Greek pharmakeus, meaning one who poisons others, a person practicing “poisonous’ black magic. Some interpreters take the term to mean one who spreads enmity and ‘poisons” people’s minds.

    And is Hell itself anything to worry about? Hell too might be a Biblical mistranslation. Aside from the logical contradiction of a loving god sending His people to eternal flames, the terms most often used for Hell: Sheol and Gehenna(2), do not mean “hell” at all. Sheol was a proper noun, the Jewish term for the land of the dead, where even good Jewish patriarchs were said to have gone. Gehenna was a burial ground outside of Jerusalem. More on Biblical mistranslations of Hell and its eternity and pain can be found in the essay “To Hell With Hell,” by J. Cleveland. Even if you do feel uncomfortable practicing Christian Witchery with its Biblical connotations, it is also clear that modern day versions of the Bible may be inaccurate in their translation, and knowledge of the “original” Bible is necessary before making any decisions. But again: if it makes you uncomfortable, don’t do it.

    1: All material in this paragraph concerning Biblical terms now translated as “witch’ was taken from http://www.religioustolerance.org
    2: All information from this passage concerning the Biblical mistranslations of “Hell” is from “To Hell With Hell,” by J. Cleveland. His essay can be found at the following address: http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/PaleHorse13x/Hell.html.

    Comment by peacefulhaven | August 5, 2008

  8. From their article to explain themselves:

    “Jesus, Himself, taught that even the smallest Hebrew letter, and the smallest part of a Hebrew letter had lasting significance (Mt. 5:18).”

    What??? And here all this time I foolishly thought that was about the law of God not passing away, when really it was just about Hebrew letters in general. Pardon the sarcasm, but how does anybody with half a brain fall for this rubbish!? Of course, the really sad part is, many people would read this and simply accept his statement as fact because it was followed by a scripture reference without even stopping to check the reference and see if it really says what this guy is claiming it does.

    I loved this by the way:

    “We believe in the Word of God. Therefore, the Word of God is the foundation and basis for all teaching that occurs here in this ministry.”

    Right, and Satan believes in God, therefore God is the basis for all of Satan’s lies and deceit. Love the logic!

    Comment by Cindy | August 5, 2008

  9. Kabbalah is a Jewish concept and idea dating back almost 1000 years. Essentially it says that the plain meaning of the Scripture is not enough, and you have to find out the secret meaning of the Scripture.

    This secret meaning was only known to the patriarchs and Old Testament prophets, but has been hidden in the Jewish Scriptures for the wise to find.

    Their actual doctrines are hard to determine, as many seem to contradict each other.

    On God, they see God as not spirit or matter but the creator of spirit and matter. Very much an unknown and unknowable God. Kabbalah often tends to pantheism – the idea that God is everything and everything is God. This is what makes it popular within the New Age movement.

    In terms of number-word mysticism, Kabbalah says that every letter and number in the Bible has a hidden meaning.

    I would imagine most of you know that the Hebrew language has no numerical characters, but uses letters of the alphabet to represent numbers. Therefore every Hebrew word has a number value based on the letters with it. If a word like C-A-T exists in Hebrew, you could give C=3, A=1, and T=20, then the word is worth 24.

    Kabbalah actually teaches that you can change any word in the Bible to any other word that has the same number and that is the word of God. I wonder if that will be introduced to Christianity soon!

    Cheers,
    Ben

    Comment by Ben | August 5, 2008

  10. PS In reference to the Hebrew roots movement, I am Jewish by heritage, in fact I am a Levi by origin.

    However, I have never referred to myself as a Messianic Jew. Paul was so adamant that Christianity was free from the legalism and the calendar of Judaism and that it was free in Christ, and there is so much legalism and returning to the Old Covenant in there, it is mainly a waste of time.

    I love the Jewish people, and I am pre-millennial and believe in two Covenants. Abraham has descendants like sand and descendants like stars. But now I am a star, I see no need to go back to living like sand.

    Blessings,
    Ben

    Comment by Ben | August 5, 2008

  11. ETPW, I have a friend who may be able to do it. She recently had to leave her church, also for the sake of truth. I will ask her.

    Comment by redeemedhippie | August 5, 2008

  12. Kabbalah is something that is considered rather mystical by Jews and I totally agree with Eve above, Rabbi’s do tell people not to practice it for if you are not ’strong enough’ per se to handle it you have a good chance of going mad (demonic possession). It pretty much stems from King Solomon (when he went off the rails and started conjuring demonic spirits) Kabbalah is Jewish mysticism based on the Jewish Religion. It it pretty much like any other form of occultism, say for instance Wicca, except it stems from the Jewish Faith.

    In Jewish circles, even though Rabbi’s warn people not to delve into it, many many Rabbi’s do practice the Kabbalah – there are levels if you want to call it that, that the Rabbi goes through to strengthen himself mentally etc to practice Kabbalah to it’s fullest.

    In satanic circles, Kabbalah is linked to Solomon’s Keys and these documents/books explain many incantations tried and tested by Solomon and the demons that Solomon conjured that he himself or his servants drew images of – some appear in multiple ways. Solomons Keys play a major role for ‘most’ new comers interested in the more darker side of the occult. In fact there are traces of Kabbalah in most of the different satanic steams, Crowley himself borrowed from the Kabbalah and intertwined it with his Satanic rituals etc.

    In pagan or new age circles, Kabbalah is something that they either practice or don’t. It’s not that if you are an occultist you will practice Kabbalah, for there are many areas of interest that involve different ‘ways’. How one lot speaks their incantation might not be the same way another says theirs – ultimately the results will differ, depending on what they (the occultist) is trying to achieve. Kabbalah is also very much astronomy/cosmology based so you might find many star readers etc dabbling in Kabbalah, and then again not necessarily. Kabbalah also has it’s own deck of Tarrot Cards.

    Freemasonry is riddled with Kabbalah teaching that has been incorporated over time especially through the likes of Crowley – however Crowley’s form of Freemasonry was way to Satanic for the average layman hence he was kinda shunned but strangely enough still considered a 33rd Degree.

    So basically Kabbalah is just another form of witchcraft, just another ‘path’ to hell.

    Comment by Deborah | August 5, 2008

  13. Oh and Kabbalah is also very numbers and letters based, also called Numerology in other New Age circles but again not the same thing. Different alphabet.

    This is why Chuck Pierce and Co (NAR) are so into their Hebrew calendar vs Gregorian and attribute so many dates and numbers to special occurrences in the heavenlies and on earth.

    I picked up on this long ago and I’ve been meaning to tell you Miriam but just completely forgot.

    Comment by Deborah | August 5, 2008

  14. In reference to the many Jewish people practicing Kabbalah, most Orthodox and Reformed Jews would see the practice as abhorrent.

    Comment by Ben | August 5, 2008

  15. Thank you for writing this article. I am going to add a link to my article.
    I think that Pierce and his followrs are opening the heavens and these beings that they are conjuring up are demonic. They are causing great destruction in our country. I have other people’s links that have done far more research than I have listed in my article.
    Keep up the good work and know that has blessed us with the closing of Lakeland and banning from England. But our job continues to stand for truth in the Church of Jesus. The gates of hell will not prevail against His Church

    P Holliday

    Comment by patpat holliday | August 5, 2008

  16. I forget to link the article…I am sorry.
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/4436374/C-PETER-WAGNER-CHUCK-PIERCE-TODD-BENTLEY-CHOSEN-VESSEL-
    Pat Holliday

    Comment by patpat holliday | August 5, 2008

  17. I was on a message list a few years back, by someone who got into Kaballah and shortly thereafter I left the list. What I picked up from that was that certain arrangements of Hebrew letters impart a certain kind of ‘power’ for manifesting things — so of course not very far from witchcraft as already mentioned by others.

    I remember seeing some tv special about it, and Madonna and other followers wearing a red thread around their wrist that signified some other sort of ‘power’ and in this show there were some people who were going to tie red string around some tree which held special significance. It was very bizarre, imo.

    Comment by Cia Watson | August 6, 2008

  18. Ben, thanks for sharing.

    I would like to find out what your position is regarding the “2 covenants” you mentioned.

    Are you saying that Mosaic Covenant is still a valid covenant by which the Jews may be saved?

    Secondly, with respect to being pre-millenial, are you saying that Jesus will return before the millenial reign, and that ALL believers will reign with Him here on the old earth?

    I am a gentile, by the way ;)

    Shalom.

    Comment by Bull | August 6, 2008

  19. Cia – The red string is found in pagan and Roman religion, as a protective thing against evil spirits. Only a few years ago, babies used to have red beads/ bangles or string on their wrists as protection. In Indian cultures I seem to recall they use the black colour in a bangle and or/soot as protection instead.

    Comment by endtimespropheticwords | August 6, 2008

  20. Can anyone tell me if the Kabbalic number system and Hebrew Gematria is the same, or is it different?

    Also, noticing how often the witch prophets repeat things x number of times, which I know is pagan, but could they specifically be doing some kabbalic practice based on the numbers of the word and the repetition. Anyone know?

    Comment by endtimespropheticwords | August 6, 2008

  21. @ Bull,

    There is only one name under earth in which men may be saved, the wonderful and beautiful name of Jesus.

    I believe the Jewish people still have a covenant with God, but it is for the land of Israel (children like sand). We have a covenant with God, the new covenant, which is for heaven (children like stars).

    God keeps his promises. He hasn’t taken away his promises to Israel and given them to anyone else. I reject any form of replacement theology.

    Yes Jesus will return before the millennium. We will be raptured and then there will be the final week of Daniel’s seventy weeks where the Lord will complete His work with Israel. Until then, the gospel of the kingdom must be preached to all the nations of the world.

    Yes, we will reign with the Lord in the millennium. But you don’t have to wait until then. You are a king and priest NOW. You are seated in heavenly places NOW. You are more than a conqueror NOW. Take authority over your life and walk in peace, joy and victory today.

    Cheers,
    Ben

    Comment by Ben | August 6, 2008

  22. Ben, respectfully I have to disagree on the timing for the rapture. If you look, in 1 Cor.15:52 it says at the last trump. Everything I see points to it being at the end of the tribulation. If Im not mistaken the thought of pre trib rapture started around 1830, it wasnt taught before then. It has been a long time since I studied this so I dont have precise information at this time, if anyone out there knows where exactly this came from please advize. 2 Thes.2:3 says that day shall not come except there come a great falling away first and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition. So Im of the opinion that we will be well into the tribulation before that happens. Dont get me wrong, it would not bother me if we were taken out prior to the tribulation, I just dont see that in scripture. GOD BLESS!!!

    Comment by Vince | August 7, 2008

  23. Ben,

    I’m with Vince on the rapture.

    Comment by Lee | August 7, 2008

  24. Hi Ben,

    I am with Vince and Lee on the post-tribulation rapture.

    I agree with you with respect to the promises of God. The Church has not replaced Israel, it has been grafted INTO Israel.

    Shalom.

    Comment by Bull | August 7, 2008

  25. PRETRIB RAPTURE – HIDDEN FACTS !

    How can the “rapture” be “imminent”? Acts 3:21 says that Jesus “must” stay in heaven (He is now there with the Father) “until the times of restitution of all things” which includes, says Scofield, “the restoration of the theocracy under David’s Son” which obviously can’t begin before or during Antichrist’s reign. Since Jesus must personally participate in the rapture, and since He can’t even leave heaven before the tribulation ends, the rapture therefore cannot take place before the end of the trib! Paul explains the “times and the seasons” (I Thess. 5:1) of the catching up (I Thess. 4:17) as the “day of the Lord” (5:2) (which FOLLOWS the posttrib sun/moon darkening – Matt. 24:29; Acts 2:20) WHEN “sudden destruction” (5:3) of the wicked occurs! (If the wicked are destroyed before or during the trib, who would be left alive to serve the Antichrist?) Paul also ties the change-into-immortality “rapture” (I Cor. 15:52) to the posttrib end of “death” (15:54)! (Will death be ended before or during the trib?) If anyone wonders how long pretrib rapturism has been taught, he or she can Google “Pretrib Rapture Diehards.” Many are unaware that before 1830 all Christians had always viewed I Thess. 4’s “catching up” as an integral part of the final second coming to earth. In 1830 it was stretched forward and turned into a separate coming of Christ. To further strengthen their novel view, which the mass of evangelical scholars rejected throughout the 1800s, pretrib teachers in the early 1900s began to stretch forward the “day of the Lord” (what Darby and Scofield never dared to do) and hook it up with their already-stretched-forward “rapture.” Many leading evangelical scholars still weren’t convinced of pretrib, so pretrib teachers then began teaching that the “falling away” of II Thess. 2:3 is really a pretrib rapture (the same as saying that the “rapture” in 2:3 must happen before the “rapture” ["gathering"] in 2:1 can happen – the height of desperation!). Other Google articles throwing light on long-covered-up facts about the 178-year-old pretrib rapture view include “Famous Rapture Watchers,” “X-Raying Margaret,” “Revisers of Pretrib Rapture History,” “Thomas Ice (Bloopers),” “Wily Jeffrey,” “The Rapture Index (Mad Theology),” “America’s Pretrib Rapture Traffickers,” “Roots of (Warlike) Christian Zionism,” “Scholars Weigh My Research,” “Pretrib Hypocrisy,” “Pretrib Rapture Desperados” and “Deceiving and Being Deceived” – all by the author of the bestselling book “The Rapture Plot” which is available at Armageddon Books online. Just my two cents’ worth. Todd

    Comment by Todd | January 6, 2009

  26. I also don’t hold the view of Pre-Trib Rapture and also excited to be living in the days to see G_d’s promises come to pass, especially among the Nation of Israel, and the Sons of Ishmael. These days are far greater than what any NAR leader has told you.

    Comment by Avshalom | January 6, 2009

  27. Wow. You all are full of info. I have wondered exactly where to draw the line between some forms of christianity and withcraft. I never thought of merging the two… What business has light with darkness is my thought process. God told me along time ago my job was to believe, love God and be avalible…kindof on call…In between that I just have to live my life. the scriptues are the living word of God and my guide book. basically I am filty rags but God thinks Im cute. So whom am I to argue…

    Comment by shell | January 28, 2009


Leave a comment