End Times Prophetic, Prophecy, Visions, Dreams, Revelation, Christian Blog

Christian prophecy for the church and for the nations from a servant of God called to speak God’s word

Lakeland Apostolic Findings by C. Peter Wagner, “Convening Apostle”

This is the latest release from C Peter Wagner on Lakeland and Todd Bentley. Compare this latest statement with the one at the bottom of this post which was released on the Elijah List on June 24th along with Chuck Pierce’s own glowing endorsement of Todd Bentley (see here). How things change in just six weeks!

“THE LAKELAND APOSTOLIC FINDINGS

From the Lakeland Outpouring Apostolic Team
by C. Peter Wagner, Convening Apostle, 11th August 2008

Introduction

Few events in recent church history have drawn as much national and international attention as the Lakeland Outpouring, May-August 2008, led by evangelist Todd Bentley and his Fresh Fire Ministries team. A key factor contributing to this unusual phenomenon has been the decision of Rory and Wendy Alec to use GOD TV to televise the revival meetings internationally.

As would be expected, true to the history of revivals, a powerful move of God like this inevitably draws serious attacks from the enemy and his forces of darkness. One outcome is a range of reactions to the phenomenon from those who focus on the hand of God in the ministry to those who focus on the damage that the enemy is doing.

Because of the unprecedented number of people who have been affected one way or another by Lakeland and because of instant communication through technology, opinions and points of view easily become public domain, and the body of Christ can readily become polarized, which, of course, would be a victory for the enemy.

[End times note - What C Peter Wagner is doing is effectively putting down the bloggers on the internet who were the main voices against Lakeland and Todd Bentley and helped to bring him down via the "public domain".

By "the body of Christ being polarised", Wagner means that a distinct band of people spoke up publically and warned and said Lakeland, Todd Bentley and the false apostles and false prophets and false manifestations linked with it are not of God, and people should have nothing to do with it, let alone come under the apostles headed by Wagner that are being promoted through it.

These apostles have been wooing the body seeking dominion over it, and continue to woo under the guise of "mending the church" - when it is them and their unsound doctrines, wicked schemes and vile plottings that has caused this division and hurt in the first place!

As C Peter Wagner demands unity under him, with him being the king of the castle, then of course he is going to view any opposition to this eg 'polarisation' - as not being good - as it is not good for HIM!  Even when the critical bloggers' words have been proven to be true NOW with the passing of time, and the apostolic-prophetic movement have been proven to be the false prophets, liars and hypocrits and promoters of darkness that they are, they still hold themselves up as the heros in all this and urge "come let us fix this problem!" - that they themselves wilfully and deliberately caused!]

Unfortunately, in the case of Lakeland, the enemy has been succeeding, more than he should, in producing widespread confusion and even chaos throughout large segments of the body of Christ.

[End times note - the enemy suceeded in blinding multitudes for months to an evil charlatan and his false anointing and prophecies - and though many have been forcibly woken up, many are still blind because they want to be blind. Wagner does not seem to care about the enemy "winning" through false doctrine, false prophecy, false impartations, and being hustled financially by a huckster. Wagner only seems to care now that Bentley has been outed - and that is the truth of it - and to do some damage control to protect himself and his interests as well as to seek to gain a greater foothold in the charismatic church through repairing something he himself created - just as in a political false flag incident. Church, do not allow him to take over as a false Messiah figure that promises peace to the spiritual Israel as he will break his promises as surely as he will either corrupt or destroy the body - and more than that, thoroughly root him, his associates and his false doctrines out NOW. This man and his movement is dangerous and is antichrist.

Also in terms of confusion, false prophets like Todd Bentley spread confusion as they continually contradict not only themselves but also the word of God. The bloggers that warned about him did not contradict either themselves or more importantly, the word of God, which makes the fact there are false prophets and charlatans most clear. There is nothing confusing about what we said - 'stay away from Lakeland, as Bentley is a poisonous serpent!' But people refused to hear the warning as they loved manifesting more than they loved truth. And some - Wagner, notably - had evil agendas and so loved the darkness and confusion created.

Wagner does not care about TRUTH and righteousness - far from it. If he did, he would have spoken out YEARS ago, not just about Todd but all the other false prophets out there linked to him. Wagner collects false prophets and has done so for years. He would have also taught truth and promoted truth instead of promoting the error he has and routed out the lies and corruption from within his ranks. And certainly he would not have taken the recent actions of publically "aligning" and commissioning Todd Bentley!]

Throughout the early weeks of the Outpouring I watched it from time to time on TV, I followed the news items and rejoiced at what God was doing in Lakeland, but the matter was located toward the bottom of my priority scale. I also became aware of a rising number of criticisms and concerns about what was going on there, but I had very little interest in absorbing or analyzing them.

[Rubbish! I do not believe that for a second. Lakeland was orchestrated and planned beforehand by this evil motley crew in order to elevate the false apostles, and C Peter Wagner was well aware of what was going on there, and more than that he sought every opportunity to promote and elevate himself and his apostles from the very early stages of Lakeland.  Todd's fall was even premeditated and orchestrated by the powers that be in order to further promote themselves during the fall out.

BUT even if what Wagner is saying is true, that Lakeland was the "bottom of his priorities" for a time, and he did not really know what the concerns were [what he is really doing, of course, is making excuses to distance himself from these problems], this statement of his just does not ring true for several reasons – and again, even if true, it raises major red flags so Wagner is still not in the clear.

First of all, Wagner claims he watched it “from time to time” on God TV. Nobody with any discernment needs watching Todd Bentley more than a few minutes to discern that something is very, very wrong – spiritually and theologically and ethically. What Convening Apostle Peter Wagner is saying is; “I do not have any discernment” OR “I have discernment but I like evil” OR “I have discernment and I do not care.”  None of these scenarios are good for someone who seeks dominion over the Earth and all who reside on it.

His own apostles and prophets were involved in a “revival” that was raising serious concerns and criticisms internationally – and he is not interested in at least taking a brief look at these issues? What does this say about this man’s leadership ability or pastoral heart – let alone his care for the flock – his own and the church at large?  Basically, when Wagner is saying “I had very little interest in absorbing or analyzing them” he says – “I do not care about heresy and lies within my own ranks”, “I do not care about my apostles and prophets decieving mutlitudes”, “I do not care about the devil gaining a foothold” - until someone calls him and virtually begs for his ‘apostolic’ help?! (And then still the actions in that help proferred, fall far short of reighteousness, let alone reflect true apostolic leadership) ]

This changed when I received a telephone call from Apostle Stephen Strader, Pastor of Ignited Church, and host of the Lakeland Outpouring. Stephen called me as the Presiding Apostle of the International Coalition of Apostles (ICA) of which he was a member.

{WAS? Does that mean Stephen Strader is no longer a member?]

From first hand observation he described both the blessings and harsh opposition that they had begun to experience. Then he said, “Where are the apostles?”

[Why would Stephen Strader call on the apostles when not only is he and another Strader family member apostles, but Robert Ricciardelli, yet another apostle, was there overseeing things? And when an abundance of apostles or their associated prophets were also there each night? Rodney Howard Browne was also giving his advice behind the scenes.]

I believe the Holy Spirit spoke to me at that moment and said words to the effect, “Peter, you will need to answer that question.”

[Basically Wagner is saying, "God says we are the apostles and I am the chief"]

As I have written in my books, one of the roles of an apostle is to set things in order and another is to assure that the body of Christ is operating on the basis of sound, biblical doctrine.

[Did he just say this?! Oh please this is laughable, bearing in mind the history of the NAR and its false apostles and false prophets. Sound?! These guys intentionally move away from Biblical doctrine and/or blatantly twist it - and in fact they prophesy a coming persecution of those who adhere to the Bible and sound doctrine.

Furthermore, Wagner contradicts himself from a few sentences back and also testifies against his apostleship, as in one breath he says "it was not a priority", "I had little interest", "I was unable to discern blatant heresy and blasphemy when I saw it" and then the next breath he says "one of the roles of an apostle is to set things in order and another is to assure that the body of Christ is operating on the basis of sound, biblical doctrine".   So, if he truly thinks he is a God-ordained apostle, why did Wagner not set things in order and establish sound biblical doctrine - not only at Lakeland but within his own ranks?

Also note the contradictions with the bottom statement from the 24th June where Wagner states Lakeland was "groundbreaking" and it was crucially important and "I cannot recall an event of this nature in the recent history of the Church" etc....]

There was no question about the need-disorder reigned, and many of the Lakeland doctrines as well as practices were being called into question on an international scope. I believe that I was given a divine assignment that I hadn’t even desired,

[Yeah, right! More like he saw the opportunity for self promotion....]

namely to attempt to bring some kind of apostolic order to this widespread and potentially damaging confusion.

{So why didn’t he then bring ”apostolic order”?! Nobody from among the apostles sorted anything out, until Bentley very publically fell after the ABC Nightline newscast. Then Robert Ricciardelli came out of the woodwork, followed by more and more “rats”. Now Wagner is joining these rats and trying to save his own ungodly scrawny ratlike neck. Note the coincedental timing of this statement too, not only after Lakeland has shut up shup, and God TV has finished its broadcast, but at the same time as Todd Bentley’s announcement of his marriage breakdown (here)]

While I was talking to Stephen, God kept bringing the word “alignment” to the front of my mind, so I questioned him on Todd Bentley’s apostolic alignment. The upshot was that Todd believed in apostles and prophets, but he had never entered into a formal alignment. I did some more investigation over the next couple of days, and I was assured that this was indeed the case.

As the picture developed, there were two pressing needs. One was to facilitate apostolic alignment for Todd

[Why would anybody align a false prophet and charlatan underneath them unless that prophet and charlatan was as false as they were and had the same agendas and was going in the same direction?  C Peter Wagner only aligned Todd in order to promote HIMSELF and his apostles. Make no mistake, he could not care less about Todd, nor about truth, as already discussed. Todd has always been disposable to them.

Furthermore, Bill Johnson, Che Ahn, Bob Jones etc testify that Todd Bentley was 'aligned' "because of his enemies" - see here for their take on the reason for the commissioning - that is, basically, in order to give a false prophet and his false revival extra credibility they publically commissioned him and endorsed him. But it was ultimately for their own purposes, in order to elevate and promote themselves in the longer run.]

and the other was to deal responsibly with the doctrinal and ministry style issues being discussed. Then the question became, Which should come first?

[What does the Bible say about false prophets and evil men like Bentley? It is abundantly clear - warn them, see if they repent, and then if not, have nothing to do with them! It does not say align and endorse them first and then sort them out. [Which despite the alignment being done June 23rd, the sorting out STILL has not been done!]

By apostle Robert Ricciardelli’s testimony, Todd Bentley refused to repent – even when requested to – for lying about God’s authoring a prophecy about money that Todd that made up in order to manipulate the crowd to give to HIM, and he lied to millions in the process here. This, though bad enough in itself and enough to strike him from ministry, is in addition to the other numerous lies about the angel Emma and so on, and so on, and so on. The list of lies coming from Lakeland alone – not just from Bentley but also from Strader and others – is extensive.]

Meanwhile I had been discussing these things with several friends, all of whom were also members of ICA and whose opinion I highly respected.

I immediately discovered to my surprise that many of my friends had formed highly-charged and emotionally intense opinions. Some were advising me not to go to Lakeland to promote a formal alignment until the doctrinal issues first had been resolved. Others took the opposite position. I carefully considered what they said and weighed the pros and cons as best I could.

My thinking was that I did not want to deal with doctrinal issues with any one but fellow apostles.

[How elitist! How unbiblical!  How trying to dodge the bullet and blameshift!]

I had recently attempted a similar process that had to do with a certain prophet,

[Being whom?  Bearing in mind so many false prophets are within Wagner's ranks]

and I had failed in accomplishing my goal of bringing about a reconciliation of opposing parties. I felt that one of my mistakes had been attempting to deal directly with a prophet who was not aligned with me instead of dealing with an apostle with whom this person was in fact aligned.

[what elitist and unbiblical claptrap!]

I certainly knew that I did not want to attempt to work directly with an evangelist such as Todd Bentley, especially one whom I had never met. If Todd was not apostolically aligned, this alignment needed to be formalized before I was prepared to go any further. I am well aware that some friends thought I should have stopped right there and pulled out. Perhaps I should have, but I felt that I would be disobeying the word from the Holy Spirit if I did. Some of my friends have not yet forgiven me for not taking their advice, and, who knows? Someday they might be telling me, “I told you so!”

[Was it the voice of the Holy Spirit or not? Not only does Wagner contradict by saying what HE thought, what HE processed, not what GOD told him - (but then according to him and Latter Rain heresy, apostles are so in tune with God they speaks and think as Gods themselves) - he also admits he is a foolish false prophet who cannot hear from God, who cannot discern truth from error, and crooks from saints, and does not know the scriptures well, OR he has evil motives at heart - because this decision is proven to have been the wrong one historically and  biblically (not by him, though, as it elevated him and his movement and achieves what he desires).

For the voice of God only leads into all truth and does not contradict scripture.  Wagner says "perhaps he should..." and "who knows? He may be proven to be wrong": but if this it was really the voice of God, how could he be possibly wrong? And how could he even possibly think perhaps he should have done something else in retrospect when he says he "obeyed the voice of the Holy Spirit"?  This contradiction indicates either Wagner is lying, that God did not tell him what he claims, OR that he is an ungodly man who does not care about obeying God. It also indicates he has ungodly friends who are not quick to forgive. It is not good any possible way of looking at it.]

Regardless, I knew that alignment needed to come first. Chuck Pierce, with whom I am closely aligned prophetically, wholeheartedly agreed.

[So despite it contradicting the scriptures, and proving wrong in the long run, who cares? Wagner 'knew' it was "God" and his heir-apparent in waiting, a false new age prophet who prophesies the Kabbalah, and merchandises galore, agreed. Like anybody with an uncorrupt heart after God and desire for truth would trust Chuck- 'I prophesy the Kabbalah' - Pierce's prophetic advice? And in retrospect. this also continues to prove Chuck Pierce's lack of discernment and true prophetic ability too.]

I did my due diligence and discovered that Ché Ahn was the ICA member who had the closest contact with Todd, and that Todd was willing to accept this alignment. Ché felt that he should bring in Bill Johnson and John Arnott since all three of them were close to Todd and they lead the newly-formed Revival Alliance. Unbelievably, all four of us had one date in common open all summer, Monday, June 23,

[Yes unbelievably - bearing in mind Bob Jones had long prophesied that June 22-July 22 would be the start of something incredible in Lakeland with the glory...(didn't happen, there's a surprise) and June 23 just so happened to be the feast day for the Knights of Malta and the summer solstice and feasts to Baal etc.]

so we decided that we would propose it to Todd. He enthusiastically agreed and invited us to come.

By now the word was getting out and I was receiving a quantity of email correspondence from other apostles who were interested. I opened the door for those who desired to accompany us on the platform. I did not allow prophets, evangelists pastors, or teachers to join the group-apostles only. A total of 17 apostles participated representing three apostolic streams: ICA, Revival Alliance, and Morning Star (Rick Joyner).

[But some of these apostles were also prophets - eg Sharon Stone, Stacy-head shaking-Campbell, Clarice Fluitt, Georgian-I mentored John Crowder-Barnov, Che Ahn, Rick Joyner....]

The Alignment Ceremony

My role in the ceremony was to facilitate Todd’s alignment with the three from Revival Alliance, who would then commission Todd as the evangelist to the Lakeland Outpouring. The others were invited to join in with short prayers or prophecies as led.

{Note the blameshifting becoming more overt. Aparently, as Wagner only “facilitated”, he is not really responsible.. .the other three really are - what a dishonest and cowardly man Wagner is – did not the Holy Spirit whisper to Wagner “alignment”? And his self-confessed God-ordained role was to bring Bentley into apostolic alignment?! First of all he says its his role and responsibility, and then he says it is not? He cannot have it both ways – take the glory and shun the blame!]

I need to explain a couple of things at this point, because it turns out that some have misunderstood what I have just said. Some have thought that Todd is aligned with me, which is not the case. He is not a member of ICA. We are barely aquainted.

{Ah more excuses. Todd is not a member of the ICA – nobody said he was. But he was officially commissioned and prophesied over by a rapturious bunch of arrogant ICA apostles on June 23rd. He was aligned to the NAR via The Revival Alliance. Now whether Todd is aligned to Che Ahn or Bill Johnson FIRST in the pyramid scheme is really neither here nor there – he was apostolically aligned and commissioned. This is what Wagner said on the night:

“This is a cermony celebrating the formal apostolic alignment of Todd Bentley…”

Todd was even given a ring by the group. This was after Todd lied and blasphemed by the way – so even if Wagner really did not know Todd before [and what man lays his hands on anyone else he does not know and commissions and aligns them?], he should not have gone through this serice based on that evidence alone – if he had any integrity that is, but we have already established Wagner has NONE.

However note the contradiction with the bottom statement written by Wagner on 24th June, which states Todd is a wonderful individual, that he likes him, and he even alikened Todd Bentley  to John Wimber [which is ridiculous, I saw Wimber on several occasions and though Wimber had faults, the two men are not alike - they are incomparable], full of the Holy Spirit with great words of knowledge. And that God came on Todd powerfully. These are Wagner’s own words. And Wagner even mentioning testing Todd for humility etc before the meeting.

Wagner is lying here! Wagner publically endorsed Bentley not just at Lakeland but on the Elijah List and on his website following the commissioning service!

But anyway, even if Todd Bentley was not aligned by any of the apostles on that night to whoever, wherever, Bentley was publically endorsed by all these apostles and prophets at Lakeland before millions - when God says have nothing to do with such men as Bentley. So who cares about the names of Wagner’s false apostles or pompous sounding false  groups and associations, it was biblically wrong any way one looks at it. And Wagner is accountable for his actions on that night and cannot worm out of it – though he will try.]

Please note that purposely I have never come out and defended Todd against any of the accusations. I have attempted to maintain neutrality in order to deal with the issues as objectively as possible.

{Wagner publically endorsed Todd – because of all the heat that Todd was getting. That is tantamount to defending him in the face of criticism! 

Furthermore read again the Elijah List article at the bottom by Wagner which was published along with Chuck Pierce’s article, Wagner’s second in command, in defence of Bentley and Lakeland in the face of the criticism! Of course Wagner defended Todd and Lakeland, and of course he knew what he was doing at the time as well as did Chuck Pierce. These articles were both effectively apologetics!

Wagner claims to have attempted to maintain neutrality but this is far from the truth – a neutral person does not go and run and endorse and commission Todd! Nor does he allow his apostles to promote themselves at Lakeland, nor does he write what he did on the Elijah list etc etc

Furthermore, this revival was about elevating the false apostles from the start, so again Wagner is far from neurtal with far from neutral interest in the outcome.

Most importanly, despite all the waffle here about apostolic alignment and not knowing the full facts, Wagner has still NOT dealt with the issues – even NOW!]

Some have said that my very appearance in the ceremony constituted a de facto endorsement of the Lakeland Outpouring. I anticipated that this would be the case, and I felt I had to take the risk because I knew of no other way to proceed.

[Err speaking up? Obeying the Bible, shock horror?! Not being so gushing on the night...]

So while it was an endorsement, I in no way meant it to imply that I was endorsing Lakelands’s side of the controversial issues.

[What double speak! You cannot endorse one without endorsing the other as far as the public are concerned - unless you speak out or distance yourself from the issues. What a total hypocrit Wagner is, what a deciever!

Furthermore, how can Wagner possibly endorse Bentley or Lakeland to any degree - bearing in mind it is a false prophet and a false revival, rotten at its core. There was nothing Godly to endorse there - at all. Take away the lies and the showmanship and false prophecy and hype, and there is nothing good or godly remaining. Yet again Wagner the deciever testifies against himself as being undiscerning, uncaring, or dark at heart.]

For one thing I couldn’t do that because I had not yet investigated them as I am doing now.

[I have already gone into this - meaning a lack of discernment, a lack of care, a lack of integrity or all three! This is excuses, excuses, excuses.  And furthermore Wagner contradicts himself yet again by saying he was aware of some of the issues (if not all) before anyway.

Furthermore many of his apostles and disciples were aware of the criticism and issues as they even wrote apologetics or took direct steps to cover things up - eg Chuck Pierce, Gary Grieg, Stephen Strader and so on....is Wagner claiming he knew nothing of this?! Yeah, pull the other one.]

I felt that the proper protocol was alignment first. However, I did feel, and still do, that what was wrong with the Outpouring should be corrected if at all possible rather than rejected out of hand.

{Yawn – so why did he not correct it then? Derr…obvious question. And how do you correct something without rejecting the false and the lies as being out of hand? And of course, public correction and repentence not just private “counsel” aka covering up.

The issue here is being caught. As long as it remains hidden, all good. If out of the bag, say whatever you need to say to continue to look good. The lying rats!]

Others wondered if this was an ICA event. It was not. However, I cannot separate myself from my role as the ICA leader, and I so identified myself in my paper. Thirteen of the 17 apostles on the platform were ICA members, and they agreed that Todd would be better with formal apostolic alignment than without it.

I have been scolded by some for making an apostolic decree at the end of my presentation. They may be right. However, I believe in apostolic alignment so much, that my thought was that Todd would be blessed more after the alignment than before.

{Excuses again….]

Take note also that I mentioned a heightened level of discernment between truth and error which obviously has been called for.

{What discernment? For so far Wagner testifies not only is he false and lacks discernment (or does not care) but his apostles lack discernment (or do not care) and are lying pandering false prophets. Do you remember their gushing false prophecies on the night over Todd here? Not ONE of them spoke the truth.]

The vows of alignment with Ché, Bill, and John led to Todd’s commissioning. Ché Ahn was in charge of this. Notice that the only ones who laid on hands and commissioned were the three of them. Several prayed and prophesied. I want to make it clear that I did not commission Todd as some wrongly think. I didn’t lay on hands, I didn’t anoint with oil, in fact I moved to the back and neither my wife, Doris, nor I prayed or prophesied. I did this intentionally because I knew I would be wrongly positioned for the second part of my assignment if I did.

[Oh the rat! Blame it all on Che Ahn!]

With the alignment completed, I was ready to go on with the second part of the assignment, namely attempting to bring order out of the confusion concerning doctrines and ministry practices

Bringing Order to the Issues

I felt that I needed a team of apostles who were willing to work with me in order to identify the concerns that had been brought up, define them as carefully as possible, and come to an opinion that could be issued to the public. Ten other apostles have agreed to work with me in this project: Ché Ahn, Bill Johnson, John Arnott, Chuck Pierce, Stephen Strader, Lee Grady, David Cannistraci, Steve Strang, Jeff Beacham, and Joe Askins.

[As quickly as possible? What long after the horse has bolted - or should I say been outed? Wow! That is impressive speed and so timely!

And Che Ahn, whom Wagner has blamed for aligning Todd, and Bill Johnson and John Arnott who was involved, is Ok to work with after all in this scheme?! Despite his lack of discernment and his public endorsement which Wagner claims that should not have been done after all....hmm, something smells real bad.

And John Arnott after the Toronto fiasco is hardly one to counsel about false revivals.

Stephen Strader has been implicit in the Lakeland deception from the start and is one that should be dealt with and reprimanded, not one to deal with Bentley!]

One of our first tasks was to develop a “Lakeland Spectrum” in order to help individuals concerned to know where they stood as over against others. We have a five point spectrum (1) Strong approval, (2) Concerned approval, (3) Neutral, (4) Conditional disapproval, (5) Strong disapproval. The members of our apostolic team range from 1 to 4.5, so we have a range of perspectives.

{wow – what bad discernment, they should have all rated 5. How can “men of God” have such differeing opinions about false prophets and liars? How can one strongly approve a blatant thief and liar? Regardless, should they also all not be united in mind and spirit?  I tend to think this is spin on Wagner’s part to make it appear as if they represent broad views and will be impartial – when in fact they are not – they only represent themselves!]

We have been working on sorting out what we now have, and the list is down to 24 issues. We are taking this very seriously, and we understand that the process will take time.

[You mean the cover-up will take time. And the distancing yourself from Bentley and the resulting spin will take time. 

If these guys cared about truth they would have publically addressed these issues long before now]

When we arrive at our conclusions we will release them to the public. John Arnott will be the point person to review our findings with Todd Bentley and the Fresh Fire Board of which he is a member.

We will add to this report of the findings as soon as possible . . . .”  {end of statement]

 ***

This is a transcript what C. Peter Wagner said on June 23, 2008 at the commissioning service. He testifies that he too is a false prophet and his decrees are the kiss of death as they certainly did not work on Todd Bentley! Quite the opposite in fact.

“A warm welcome to those of you who are present in this tent and to you who are watching through GOD TV. You are about to witness an event which could well have historic implications not only for the Lakeland Outpouring, but also for our nation and for many other nations of the world. Prophets have been telling us for years that God is about to launch an extraordinary spiritual awakening with signs and wonders, and for over two months, Todd Bentley has been leading one of the more obvious fulfillments of those prophecies. This is an exciting place to be right now!

My name is Peter Wagner and I am President of Global Harvest Ministries based in Colorado Springs, Colorado. I have served the Body of Christ in apostolic ministry for many years, and currently I preside over the International Coalition of Apostles, which brings together over 500 recognized apostles. I have the honor of being assigned to preside over this momentous occasion, and I am humbled as I approach the task with an enormous sense of awe. Holy Spirit, I invite Your presence, Your power, and Your direction.

What is Apostolic Alignment?

This is a ceremony celebrating the formal apostolic alignment of Todd Bentley. My first desire is to lay a Biblical foundation for what we are about to do.

I will begin with a scripture that has been a central text for those of us who are in the stream of the contemporary apostolic/prophetic movement – Ephesians 4:11-12:

“And He Himself (Jesus at His ascension) gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry…”

The word “equipping” is a translation of the Greek katartizo which literally means “aligning,” as in setting a broken bone or a chiropractic adjustment. It means putting things in order so that the body functions as it was designed to function. This is one of the responsibilities of apostles such as those whom you see on the platform, and that is the reason we are present tonight. For example, Paul wrote to Titus, “For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking…” (Titus 1:5).

Biblical, Apostolic Alignment Relationships

Speaking of Paul and Titus, their relationship is a Biblical prototype of apostolic alignment. The same would apply to Paul and Timothy. The apostolic alignment of Timothy and Titus with Paul was a principal factor in allowing God to develop and fulfill His complete destiny in both of their lives.

But, Paul himself was also apostolically aligned. Soon after he was called to join Barnabas and his colleagues in Antioch for the then controversial ministry of planting churches among Gentiles, he traveled to Jerusalem to bring a gift for famine relief and also to align with some of the apostles. I want to use the experience that Paul had on that occasion as the text for the protocol for tonight’s alignment and commissioning of Todd Bentley. It is found in Galatians 2:9, which tells the story of one of Paul’s visits to Jerusalem:

“…and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.”

Todd is following Paul’s example by inviting to the platform three apostolic pillars of today’s Church: Ché Ahn of Pasadena, California; Bill Johnson of Redding, California; and John Arnott of Toronto, Canada – Todd’s native land. They represent an apostolic network called Revival Alliance.

Notice that the apostles in Jerusalem “perceived the grace that God had given to Paul.” The word “grace” is charis, the root of charisma, meaning “spiritual gift or gifts.” In Paul’s case, it was the gift mix necessary to carry the Gospel to the Gentiles. In Todd’s case, it is the gift mix necessary to lead the Lakeland Outpouring.

I have a question for the three apostles: Do you perceive the grace of God given to Todd Bentley as an evangelist to lead the Lakeland Outpouring? (Answer: “I do.”)

I have a question for Todd Bentley: Do you recognize the apostolic authority of these three men in your life and ministry, and do you desire to establish an apostolic alignment with them and with Revival Alliance? (Answer: “I do.”)

This commissioning represents a powerful spiritual transaction taking place in the invisible world. With this in mind, I take the apostolic authority that God has given me and I decree to Todd Bentley:

Fellowship and Increase, Increase, Increase

With this affirmation, we will move to a formal commissioning, equivalent to “offering the right hand of fellowship” as the three apostles did to Paul in Jerusalem.

  • Your power will increase.
  • Your revelation will increase.
  • Your authority will increase.
  • Your favor will increase.
  • Your influence will increase.

I also decree that:

  • A new supernatural strength will flow through this ministry.
  • A new life force will penetrate this move of God.
  • A government will be established to set things in their proper order.
  • God will pour out a higher level of discernment to distinguish truth from error.
  • New relationships will surface to open gates for the future.”

***

Peter Wagner’s Report of the Lakeland Outpouring” June 24th 2008, from http://www.elijahlist.com/words/display_word/6611

“I am writing from Lakeland where I have just sent a report of Doris’ and my experiences here to a group of apostles I have been working with, some in favor of Lakeland and some opposed. I wanted you to have this information as well.

Blessings,

C. Peter Wagner
Global Harvest Ministries

June 24, 2008

As all of you know, what I believe to be God-orchestrated circumstances over the past three weeks or so have brought me mainstream into the Lakeland Outpouring and the controversies surrounding it.

I am writing this from Lakeland, Florida. The night of June 22, Doris and I attended the meeting in the tent along with 10,000 others – the largest crowd yet since meeting in the tent. It was the 82nd day of the Outpouring. Todd Bentley used his speaking time in giving the most detailed testimony so far of the “dark night of the soul” that he experienced for 18 months during 2005-2007. It was a very remarkable and transparent confession of his pride during the ten years previously and details of the wilderness that God took him through to break the pride. He was very clear about his lack of discipline, his emotions out of control, his rejection of God, his dislike of reading Scripture, public meltdown on the platform, memories of childhood rejection, loneliness, sexual abuse, his marriage on the brink of divorce, etc. He was so burnt out that he cried four hours per day for 21 days straight.

When it was over, God restored everything related to his staff, his marriage, his ministry, and his newly-refined personal character. This was a very remarkable and touching presentation. There was no hint of victimization or wanting a pity party. It was a confession of his own sin and the consequences he paid for disobedience. Doris and I were very touched by this, and we were thankful to God for a window on Todd’s character that we didn’t expect to be so wide open to us.

Opening Gates For New Seasons of the Movement of God

Let me remind you that Doris and I have been very close to other similar outpourings, especially the John Wimber signs and wonders phenomenon of the late ’70s and ’80s, as well as the Argentine Revival of the ’80s and ’90s. We believe we have paid our dues in terms of the ability to discern truth from error {!!!!!!!!!!!!!! how arrogant]  and also in receiving severe and often painful criticism for some of the judgments we made in supporting those two movements.

As we observed and participated in the meeting in the tent, we became very nostalgic about Wimber and Argentina, even noting some physical resemblance between Todd and Wimber. His accuracy in words of knowledge reminded us of both John Wimber in the past and Robert Henderson in the present. The worship time was similar to the worship we experience in Freedom Church in Colorado Springs, except on a larger and more exuberant scale. We saw or felt nothing that would cross the lines we have previously experienced in high-profile revival. We have learned that God-driven revival is often messy, tending to pull some out of their religious comfort zones, but at the same time opening gates for new seasons of the movement of God.

All this was in preparation for last night, June 23, when we held a ceremony of apostolic alignment for Todd Bentley. As you will see from the document I will attach, the gist was that Todd would be aligned with Ché Ahn, Bill Johnson and John Arnott, representing Revival Alliance, who would then commission him as the evangelist to lead the Lakeland Outpouring.

A few of us met with Todd personally before the service, and we found him to be a wonderful individual. Doris and I had never met him before. I explained to him what the ceremony would be like, and he agreed. I thought that it was interesting when he wanted to change one thing I had written in this document, because I could then run a quiet test of his humility and his respect for authority. Keep in mind that this was Todd’s ministry and Todd’s meeting. However, he had delegated the leadership of the ceremony to me. I suggested that his change was not wise, and he immediately accepted my decision. We were on the same page! In fact, we like each other!

Commissioning Todd Bentley in the Lakeland Outpouring

The scenario was that I took the podium and called around me Todd Bentley, Ché Ahn, Bill Johnson and John Arnott. I then called to the platform a number of apostles whom I had chosen to stand behind us: Stephen Strader of Lakeland, Florida; Karl Strader of Lakeland, Florida; Jeff Beacham of Sydney, Australia; Rick Joyner of Fort Mill, South Carolina; Doris Wagner of Colorado Springs, Colorado; Sharon Stone of Burton, England; Paco Garcia of Chiclana, Spain; Clarice Fluitt of Monroe, Louisiana; Richard Maiden of Scottsdale, Arizona; Michael Maiden of Phoenix, Arizona; Joshua Fowler of Orlando, Florida; Barry Boucher of Ottawa, Canada; and Wesley Campbell of Kelowna, British Columbia, Canada. Unfortunately, Bishop Bill Hamon had to cancel because of a travel problem. I then read the paper I am attaching and, despite several requests, I even desisted from telling a joke! When I finished, I handed the microphone to Ché Ahn, and he was in charge.

Ché Ahn, Bill Johnson and John Arnott laid on hands and anointed Todd Bentley with a special new “Be Revived” oil that Chuck Pierce (who was in Africa) sent for the event. Todd went down under the power of the Spirit and the three prophesied over him, commissioning him as the evangelist to lead the Lakeland Outpouring. Then most of the backup apostles prayed and prophesied as well. The power of the Holy Spirit was so heavy on that event that you could almost have cut it with a knife!

It was quite evident to those present that this was a groundbreaking event. A serious public problem had been growing in the Body of Christ revolving around concerns about Lakeland from respected leaders. Even “schism” had been mentioned frequently. Because of the extensive media coverage through GOD TV, it was much more than a private or a trivial matter. Something was called for to set things in order, and this is the stated role of apostles.

We are now in a place in what I see as the Second Apostolic Age that apostles can agree publicly to bring alignment. The seventeen apostles involved in this event represented three distinct apostolic streams: ICA (10 were ICA members), Revival Alliance, and Morningstar. Even though we are not networked formally, we believe in and support each other and we stand together when a crisis such as this one comes along. I may be wrong, but I cannot recall an event of this nature in the recent history of the Church.

The Prophetic Dimension Accompanying the Commissioning Event

There was a notable prophetic dimension accompanying the event. Around a month ago, Bob Jones prophesied that on June 22 the outpouring would increase so much that it would appear that the revival would really begin at that time. Of course no one knew that June 23, the day after June 22, would be the date of Todd’s apostolic alignment which could well be the event to release increased spiritual power. Parenthetically, both June 22 and June 23 broke previous attendance records in the 10,000-seat tent.

There is a great deal more to say, but I will leave it as it is for the moment. My paper, “Lakeland Outpouring Apostolic Alignment,” which is below, will fill in many details. Although I am writing this primarily to you who are mentioned above, I will also send it to some others to whom I feel responsible for a report of Todd’s alignment and commissioning.

Blessings,

C. Peter Wagner
Global Harvest Ministries

P.S. June 25 was Todd’s day off, so Ché Ahn took the service. Among other things, he used Chuck Pierce’s “Be Revived” anointing oil

[end times note - note the selling of the branded oil!]

to personally anoint the 1,000 or so pastors as “carriers of fire” to their churches. Forty-seven nations were represented in the meeting. He admonished them to receive it here in Lakeland, Florida, and then give it away!”

August 12, 2008 - Posted by endtimespropheticwords | Bill Johnson, Bob Jones, C Peter Wagner, Che Ahn, Chuck Pierce, David Cannistraci, False Prophets and Teachers, Fresh Fire ministries, Jeff Beacham, John Arnott, Kansas City Prophets, Lee Grady, New Apostolic Reformation (NAR), Peter Wagner, Prophecy, Robert Ricciardelli, Rodney Howard-Browne, Stephen Strader, Steve Strang, Todd Bentley, signs and wonders | , , | 49 Comments

49 Comments »

  1. “…..I immediately discovered to my surprise that many of my friends had formed highly-charged and emotionally intense opinions. Some were advising me not to go to Lakeland……..”

    Mr. Wagner…..you should have listened to that “some” your friends. Now you will be identified and judged for more than you would have been. This is called: ‘Going from bad to worse.’

    Comment by Marilynn | August 13, 2008

  2. Comment: ….”We believe we have paid our dues in terms of the ability to discern truth from error….”

    Answer: Paid dues to be able to discern???.

    Comment: ….”I may be wrong, but I cannot recall an event of this nature in the recent history of the Church….”

    Answer: Thought you were never wrong….this would be easier than ‘descernments’.

    Comment: “…..My name is Peter Wagner and I am President of Global Harvest Ministries based in Colorado Springs, Colorado. I have served the Body of Christ in apostolic ministry for many years, and currently I preside over the International Coalition of Apostles, which brings together over 500 recognized apostles……”

    Answer: Is that 450 (false prophets)+ 50 = 500 now?

    I couldn’t help myself Miriam: I had to ‘read’ one of his books in an A/G Bible college.

    Comment by Marilynn | August 13, 2008

  3. Thank God for the internet! (NOT to take the place of the Word of God) Can you imagine what it would be like if all this was happening 100 years ago or even 50 years ago?! 100 years ago we would have to depend upon someone passing through town on a horse and to tell us what was going on in another city with their “miraculous” stories of the false ones at that time. Making up their stories and we would have no way to see for ourselves what was going on. But today, all we have to do is search and test. Oh how the liars and heretics must hate it that information can be gotten so easily today!

    [End times note - What C Peter Wagner is doing is effectively putting down the bloggers on the internet who were the main voices against Lakeland and Toddd Bentley and helped to bring him down via the "public domain".

    By "the body of Christ being polarised", Wagner means that a distinct band of people spoke up publically and warned and said Lakeland, Todd Bentley and the false apostles and false prophets and false manifestations linked with it are not of God, and people should have nothing to do with it, let alone come under the apostles headed by Wagner that are being promoted through it.

    They are such elitests and so full of THEMSELVES! Bring them down God. Bring them down and let all see their wickedness and trickery! And may the true church rise and shine, prepared for battle!

    Jesus said, “I do not come to bring peace, but DIVISION.” Oh how the apostates hate the truth.

    I THANK EVERYBODY who has been speaking the truth! But let us not relax for one second. Another greater and mightier delusion is coming! This time they may actually be able to form in their ranks and create further destruction. So Remnant of God, we must prepare ourselves! prepare for more battle! Know the Word of God, hide it in your hearts! Be bold, be strong for our Commander in Chief goes before us!

    Comment by redeemedhippie | August 13, 2008

  4. What irks me most about this is that he starts off by saying:
    “As would be expected, true to the history of revivals, a powerful move of God like this inevitably draws serious attacks from the enemy and his forces of darkness.”

    So, as one of the bloggers who wrote against this so-called ‘move of God’, I’m one of the ‘enemy and his forces of darkness’ ? Am I reading that right? (Woe to those who call white black, and black white…]

    And then at the end of the message, he says that some of those in his ‘network’ also have some serious concerns — so are they also one of the enemy? I’d say that starting out with insults to those who raised issues with this alleged ‘revival’ only leads to more of the polarization he credits as a victory for the enemy. Whenever possible, I try to give the benefit of the doubt to those who appear to be deceived. It sadly just opens my eyes more and more, and helps remove those doubts.

    Comment by Cia Watson | August 13, 2008

  5. I have been following this ordeal from the beginning. With the analysis of the Peter Wagner letter, I couldn’t have said it better myself.

    Thank you saying things as they are.

    Comment by Inlovewithjesus | August 13, 2008

  6. I would have much preferred to have read Peter Wagner’s latest statement sans any additional comments from the blogger. I do believe that Mr. Wagner is a man of God and has tried to do what he could in helping to sort out this mess. To me, the most fitting analogy would be that of a person who lifts 100 necklaces out of their jewelry box only to find them entangled in one another…slowly and methodically they can be detangled, but the person doing the work certainly doesn’t need for bystanders to yell at them that they are doing it wrong…they are doing their best with a very messed up situation and trying not to break anything (or anyone) in the process! For goodness sake, give the man a break and show some compassion, not just judgementalism and criticism.

    Comment by Lisa | August 13, 2008

  7. This whole ceremony lifted up Todd not Jesus. It was all about Todd being the new super minister we all must idolize. I am so sick of all that.

    Comment by nelda | August 13, 2008

  8. Great work Miriam in putting together Wagner’s most recent hypocritical, backtracking, lying statements and coupling them with his actual words at Bentley’s intiation ordination!

    Comment by Lee | August 13, 2008

  9. Well said endtimes – apostle, apostle, apostles – 21 times its mentioned one way or another. The ICA definition of apostle is
    An apostle is a Christian leader, gifted, taught, and commissioned by God and with the authority to establish the foundational government of the church within an assigned sphere of ministry by hearing what the spirit is saying to the churches and by setting things in order accordingly for the extention of the Kingdom of God.
    so Mr Wagner does not pass his own criteria for apostle – he has failed miserably, he has not heard what the spirit is saying and has not set things in order, he cannot continue to call himself such. He is a foolish man who has built his house upon sand – he may have heard the word of God once but has not put it into practice. How can he say “I have the honour of being assigned to preside over this momentous occasion” and then backtrack and say that he just stood in the background.

    Comment by Jan | August 13, 2008

  10. What can I say? I’ve been to three of Peter Wagner’s conferences and he is fond of telling jokes and promoting books at every break and introduction of speakers. I remember being in the Men’s room during a break and Peter came in asking where the Men’s room was for the Pastors. ‘What an elitist’ I thought at the time. A toilet is a toilet for crying outloud.

    What is clear from this report of his ‘findings’ is that Peter Wagner lacks discernment, wisdom and common sense. My take is that he is writing this to heal the divide within his own ranks. But I’m thinking it’s a lost cause. Anyone who believes this report is nothing more than an attempt to heal the divide has lost all sense of discernment.

    Does he really think that he was able to go there to align without endorsing? If that was what he was doing, he should have stated that clearly at the ceremony rather than “risk” being misunderstood. How can someone called the ‘apostle of apostles’ allow themselves to not be clear about what they are doing? And this in light of the conflict and disagreements among his apostles and prophets that he says existed before he went to Lakeland?

    I’m sorry, but while he is intelligent and a gifted writer, he has screwed up the alignment in his own organization. He is now trying to put humpty dumpty back together again. What man has put together let God put asunder and what God has put together let no man put asunder.

    Peter Wagner has lost his credibility in the eyes of his apostles and prophets imho. That is why they won’t forgive him. Time for a change of leadership? That is what I think is going on behind the scenes. Prepare to hear Peter Wagner announce his retirement and that Chuck Pierce and Dutch Sheets will be installed as the new leadership in the near future.

    Comment by BB | August 13, 2008

  11. “As I have written in my books, one of the roles of an apostle is to set things in order and another is to assure that the body of Christ is operating on the basis of sound, biblical doctrine.”

    I nearly lost it when read that, coming from him. On the up side, I really needed a good laugh this morning.

    In all seriousness though, this is really sad. And what is perhaps even sadder is the number of people that will accept this contradictory double speak as if it came straight from the throne of God. Truly these are the last days…

    Comment by Cindy | August 13, 2008

  12. What a mess!

    It seems that revisionism is in vogue in the apostolic movement, but God’s word is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

    Comment by HSM4HIM | August 13, 2008

  13. How do you get this info? Is this something he publicly released?

    Comment by John_F | August 13, 2008

  14. Children of God, take heart; all is in the hands of our loving Father. Do not glory in the power He has given you, but glorify and praise Him Who has given you a heart to love the Truth. The Lord knows those who have eyes and heart only for dishonest gain. They have rejected the Gospel which leads to life, so their way is the slippery path in the darkness into which they shall be driven, for the LORD has declared, “Behold, I will attend to you for your evil deeds.” And He says of these spiritually adulterous false prophets who walk in lies, speaking visions of their own minds and filling their followers with vain hopes, who prophesy lying dreams and lead His people astray by their lies and recklessness, who do not proclaim His words to His people to turn them from their evil way–He says, “I did not send them or charge them. So they do not profit this people at all.” (Jer 23)
    And to them that choose to follow deception, by not seeking the Truth in God’s Word, He has proclaimed, “they shall bear their punishment–the punishment of the prophet and the punishment of the inquirer shall be alike.” (Ezek 14)
    Does the Lord not know the idolators who have no intention of giving up their idolatry, yet they come to seek a “prophetic word”, a “healing”, an “experience” of the flesh? Yes! and by His arrangement, they come to a prophet as false as they are, and both will come under God’s judgement. So, is the predeterminate will of God an excuse for moral evil? NO! He is Sovereign, yet we are morally responsible for our choices.
    A spirit of whoredom has led many astray (Hosea 4:12). “A wind has wrapped them in its wings…” See also Isaiah 19:14 and 29:10.
    All will be revealed.
    Look continually upon Christ Jesus our Lord.

    Comment by Darren | August 13, 2008

  15. Lee Grady put out an excellent article today in his “Fire in my Bones Newsletter” titled “Life after Lakeland, sorting out the confusion”. I got it via email but I will try to get the link to the article so it can be posted here.

    Comment by gigi | August 13, 2008

  16. BB – The men’s room for pastors? Boy, that speaks volumes…

    Comment by endtimespropheticwords | August 13, 2008

  17. Do you like the spin here from Ministry Today? http://www.ministrytodaymag.com/blog/2008/08/it-didnt-take-long-after-lakeland.html
    HEALTHY, ORDERLY AND BIBLICAL! OH THAT JUST IS TAKING THE BISCUIT!

    “Council in Lakeland

    It didn’t take long after the Lakeland Outpouring began in April for certain issues to rise to the surface and eventually cause such a division among Spirit-filled believers that many referred to it as a potential “charismatic civil war.” At the core were such issues as extra-biblical doctrine, overemphasis on angelic encounters and necromancy. And as so easily happens in this age of armchair quarterbacks, the blogosphere lit up in fervent debate. Heresy hunters feasted on any proof-less claims and foundation-less doctrines. Defenders railed against a lack of spiritual discernment among the “revival police.” And everyday inquisitors were stuck with a truck-load of questions mingled with a sincere desire to stay in step with what God was doing.

    As the debates climaxed, few realized that behind the scenes a group of leaders representing various parts of the Spirit-filled community were dialoguing about these same issues—albeit usually in a more civilized tone. Though the names of those involved changed, the goal remained the same: to create an apostolic council that, despite personal differences and preferences, was willing to address these core issues and bring biblical order to the situation. Those tuned in to GOD TV’s daily broadcast of the Lakeland meetings got a taste of this in late June when Peter Wagner organized a night to apostolically commission evangelist Todd Bentley.

    Now, more than a month later, Wagner is releasing a report documenting the council’s findings so far. There isn’t much “new news” contained in what he’s written—even for those hearing about this for the first time—and I have to be honest, I severely question both the breadth of representation within the council and the criterion for “apostleship” among the group. However, the document does reveal at least two positive things: 1) Though the Lakeland Outpouring may dwindle, leaders are fully aware that these issues will linger long after the crowds subside and therefore need to be adequately addressed, if not resolved; and 2) Leaders are determined to address the issues of Lakeland—and those ongoing ones affecting the entire charismatic movement, for that matter—in a healthy, orderly and biblical manner.”

    Comment by endtimespropheticwords | August 13, 2008

  18. Why do they always have to refer to people who are weighing issues Biblically as “heresy hunters”? It’s sort of like a cultic “mind stop” technique, and paints anyone who would question as divisive and having wrong motives. *rhetorically said*

    Although, one thing I will say, is that a week ago, I had this speck (a literal something or other) in my left eye, and consider it a Holy Spirit warning to really weigh my heart motives before even commenting on here.

    Comment by Kathy | August 13, 2008

  19. “heresy hunters” “revival police” are what people who question the goings on are referred to as being; those who are pro-Lakeland are called “defenders”. So, who is it more attractive to be aligned with?

    Comment by Kathy | August 13, 2008

  20. “Leaders are determined to address the issues of Lakeland—and those ongoing ones affecting the entire charismatic movement, for that matter—in a healthy, orderly and biblical manner.”

    Does this mean the hyper-charismatics will be purchasing Bibles? I mean Holy Bibles–as in “The Word of God”, not their “bibles”–Hagin and Joyner gnostic revivalist heresy trash. Wouldn’t recommending Scripture to their followers only lead to confusion? 1 Timothy 3 alone would shatter their weakened minds as they sit at the feet of their idols.

    Seriously, where does one go to witness a healthy, orderly, biblical manner exhibited amongst hyper-charismatics?

    Comment by Darren | August 13, 2008

  21. The Healthy, Orderly, and Biblical manner of course, in the way that the NAR nefariously does things, is for Che,John, and Bill to take the fall for this, and for the Pope of the charismatic wing to be installed to “adequately address” the issues. Do not underestimate a man who looks for his own toilet to be set aside for him–do you think he’s overlooked the big things? We will all be required to kiss his ring. When I first read this blog Miriam, I thought you were way too hard on that nice professorial old guy who hailed from Fuller. But you were right again.

    Comment by Karen Butler | August 13, 2008

  22. I rejoice that this is crumbling to the ground! I rejoice that they all are being exposed for the fakes they are!

    Lisa, you said, “they are doing their best with a very messed up situation and trying not to break anything (or anyone) in the process! For goodness sake, give the man a break and show some compassion, not just judgementalism and criticism.”

    People need to be BROKEN for Petes’ sake. Our allegiance should be with God and the truth, not with man and certainly not with these deceitful apostates. I hope God breaks it all down. I pray He deals with hearts and I don’t care what the cost is. What is more important? That man be soothed and pampered for their wrongdoings and perhaps lose their soul? Or God exposing them for the fakes they are and they have to suffer for a season? May Almighty God continue to expose the heretics who have lied and decieved so many people! May they turn to Him with their whole heart, come to the light and be a TRUE witness to the TRUE gospel!

    Godtube emailed me asking me to pray for Tod Bentley and all that mess. Call me hard or whatever, I don’t care, I am sick of these people getting by with so many things. I sent godtube the following: “I’ll be praying all right. I’ll not only keep praying that God continue to bring down TB and his heretical teachings, but you all too, who have endorsed his mockery and blaspheme. I’ll be praying for his wife that she would come out and tell who TB really is behind closed doors!”

    “The pastors’ toilet.” They want so much to be our little “kings!” I am so disgusted with the whole lot of them!

    Comment by redeemedhippie | August 13, 2008

  23. Karen – I understand – he and Chucky looks so sweet, like Father Christmas, grandpa type characters. Anyone notice how much they glow by the way?

    Comment by endtimespropheticwords | August 13, 2008

  24. They crucified Christ for the Truth in Him that exposed them. Should we not expect to be called a few names by spiritual adulterers, heretics, gnostics, new-agers–oh, whatever one may choose to call the children of the father of liars–with the Truth He has given us in His Word?
    Have no fear of them; they are of the world, so they speak to the world and it hears them. What more could they do to a child of God? Kill the body?
    Do not fear them, their words, their curses, their threats–rather fear Him Who can kill, and cast the soul into hell.

    Comment by Darren | August 13, 2008

  25. I am going to get a t-shirt printed up that says “Heresy Hunter” (or can one of you wits do better for the cause and come up with something a little snappier than that please?) and I’ll wear it proudly. I’m not afraid of them anymore. I am thankful for the suffering that has taught me to fear Him more.
    Miriam, they glow because they’ve doused themselves thoroughly with Chucky’s special annointing oil. You can shine too, if you shell out, what, $15 for a bottle.

    Comment by Karen Butler | August 13, 2008

  26. Ooops. Missed a few words in that last one–”when we expose them” with the Truth…

    Comment by Darren | August 13, 2008

  27. Karen, let me know if you find one of those shirts. I will wear one too. Shoot, i might even make my own! :)

    Comment by redeemedhippie | August 14, 2008

  28. Thanks for posting Wagner’s letters AVEC(with) comments here. I loved the way you took them on point by point and said exactly what I was thinking. If “heresy hunters” are what stopped this so called “move”, then I think we should all bear the title proudly!
    However, I do have this lurking fear that they may change to keep up appearances, without really changing at heart. Does anyone know what I mean?
    God Bless, y’all,
    the “other” Lisa

    Comment by Lisa | August 14, 2008

  29. Proud to be a heresy hunter!!!

    Comment by tim | August 14, 2008

  30. It is all very sad. God in his mercy has taught a very good lesson to his body. In that sense, Lakeland is from God. Hope people have learnt their lessons, so that they are not deceived in the future by TB types even if it is supported strongly by big parties like God TV and Peter Wagner.

    Comment by Golda | August 14, 2008

  31. “Where is the Pastors’ Men’s Room”?
    Sounds like someone’s looking for his own personal Throne….

    Comment by bn | August 14, 2008

  32. “heresy hunters” “revival police” are what people who question the goings on are referred to as being; those who are pro-Lakeland are called “defenders”. So, who is it more attractive to be aligned with”?

    Kathy…that is ‘new-speak’ for what we used to call in the old days…..Bereans ha ha ha

    Comment by Paula | August 14, 2008

  33. http://www.cafepress.com/HeresyHunter

    No profit made. Prices set at Cafe Press minimum.
    If you’d like to see something different, let me know.
    Or if someone knows of a better place to sell shirts, let me know that too.

    Comment by HSM4HIM | August 14, 2008

  34. I’ve been inspired: The front of the shirt says “being a heresy hunter for the NAR is like shooting fish in a barrel.On the back, A short list of easy caricatures: a disconsolate Angel Emma, very pregnant looking, biker-booted out, saying “but I birthed Toronto, and Brownsville and Lakeland”, a group of prophets surrounding a “pillar of fire” saying “beam me up, Peter.” MSOG types walking on water and through walls. Ekstasis worshippers around an Ashtoreth pole, waving banners and looking drunken. That should do it. On the back,underneath it all, Galatians 1:8 “If we, or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!” T-shirt designers, feel free to copy onto your silk screens.

    Comment by Karen Butler | August 14, 2008

  35. Sheeple is good at doing graphics by the look of his site.

    Comment by endtimespropheticwords | August 14, 2008

  36. The derogatory terms are two a penny:
    “Bible Basher” (I never bashed a Bible in my life, but I did once have the Tee Shirt)
    “Heresy Hunter” Trouble is heresy comes into sharp contrast with Scripture whether we hunt it or not.
    “Christian” Some say this was a derogatory term originally. That one certainly stuck. Proud to bear the name. Let’s boast in Him rather than our perceived position in the Kingdom like these “apostles”.

    Surely we should follow Jesus’ example. Leaders in the church are servants of servants, the lowest of the low.

    Comment by Eve | August 14, 2008

  37. classical Icke’s problem – reaction – solution

    Comment by Loneman | August 14, 2008

  38. Quote from the Greycoats:

    “This is a statement from C.Peter Wagner about his non support or is it partial support of Todd’s ministry. This is important since Mr. Wagner was one of the folks making Todd an apostle. Sadly it is beginning to fall apart for Todd. Will he be the sacrificial lamb of these false prophets? or will we all remember that they were goading this young man on and encouraging his behavior and doctrine? I for one am sick to my stomach over these forked tongued “apostles” . One minute God is birthing a new thing through you and the next they are backin off and making excuses for their presumptive behavior. It is this authors opinion that things are gonna start getting pretty dicey for ol Todd. I don’t know about you guys but he is on my prayer list no matter how demonic I feel his doctrine is. With elders like this who needs enemies.”

    Comment by endtimespropheticwords | August 15, 2008

  39. ETPW>>>”I don’t know about you guys but he is on my prayer list no matter how demonic I feel his doctrine is.”

    Miriam, you surely are a much greater woman and christian than I am.

    I am finding it so hard to pray for any of them. As they all would stab us in the back at any given opportunity for the truth is not in the.

    This whole movement has cost me relationships among the body. Those I once had sweet and beautiful fellowship with,got caught up in the biggest bunch of you know what that I have ever seen in my lifetime. I made that choice to not fellowhip anymore with those who will never test anything. And now, I sit here alone. (Not said in self-pity. But then again, perhaps so, as my heart has been tested terribly the past few months and I see nothing good in me at all. God knows.)I wait for the next onslaught that will come from these apostates unless they repent and come forward with the truth.

    I know I am not the only one. As I have met many wonderful sisters and brothers on your site the past few months. And for that much I feel blessed. God has not forgotten me.

    I ask that you and the others would lift up your voice on my behalf and pray for me. I weep even now. For the lonliness is more than I can bear at times. And the thought of now having to forgive those who have created such a vile perversion of the gospel, is beyond me. i can not do it! I sit here and pour my heart out to a bunch of strangers… i don’t know any of you… but I ask that you pray for me. For there is nowhere else to go but here.

    I know what i need to do is fall on my kness befoer God almighty. i know that. but i am so angry! and I hate those who have defiled His truth in such a way they have done! and yet, I bring reproach to Him also by not being what we are called to do, by forgiving! And therefore I despise myself! Please pray for me!

    Create in me a clean heart oh God and please do not take your Holy Spirit away from me!

    I surely will embarrass myself after posting this but I am desperate to be “normal” again. Whatever that is!

    Comment by redeemedhippie | August 15, 2008

  40. Letter to Dr. C. Peter Wagner:
    Praying for Todd Bentley
    Peter Wagner has established a revival council that is reviewing public issues in the Body of Christ related to the move of the Spirit. When the issue of Todd Bentley’s divorce came up, he asked me how I felt about it. The following is what I wrote.
    Blessings, Chuck D. Pierce

    August 12, 2008
    Dear Peter:
    When I got up this morning and prayed about the move of God in Lakeland and Todd Bentley, this is what God showed me: First of all, I felt a compassion to pray for Todd. The anointing of this move has stirred up a hunger in the Body, and the scrutiny of Todd’s life has probably taken its toll on him. So when I began to pray for Todd this morning (since I usually set aside Tuesdays to pray), I saw several things. The Spirit of God is beginning to move greatly. Also, I feel that your call to set some sort of apostolic authority in place was warranted because of potential problems moving into this move of God. The order you set in place in Lakeland establishes a structure and boundary for Todd’s problems to be addressed. Before that, there were no boundaries, and Lakeland had been going on for almost three months.
    The thing we must remember is that God chose to use Todd to stir up the hunger in the Body of Christ. Therefore, as I prayed, the Lord took me to the life of Samson. He is a mystery. He had a Nazarite vow on his life, yet he had many character flaws. His character flaws did not stop God from using him. I think this is the biggest misunderstanding that the Body has when it comes to the anointing. That is why you see anointed men and women being used so mightily by the Lord, and then falling into sexual sin or monetary impropriety.
    Because you have set an order for his life now, for the first time he has a shot at being fully accountable and breaking spiritual forces that could destroy his future. What he needs to do now is submit to apostolic authority over the next nine months. Ministry should not to be his goal. Instead, the restoration of covenant alignments must occur in his life. He and his wife might not be able to withstand the pressure of ministry together in the future, but during these nine months Todd’s choice would be to submit to the authority structure that God has established in his life publicly. If he does that, he might have a ministry in the future. If this had not been set in place, this would have been much more serious. I’m sure others would say you should not have been involved at all.
    Since Stephen Strader requested your help and he is in ICA, you did respond to his Macedonian call. Yes, you would have looked like a hero if you had waited and gotten involved now. But just as you wrote recently, you chose to establish the order first and then any spiritual discipline could be brought. That makes you look like a father.
    I wish all ministries and calls were like Dutch Sheets Ministries. Dutch has been called to establish the Presence of God during these 90 days through 24-7 worship. Dutch will walk in his call with utmost integrity because he has spent years disciplining his life, his family is in order, and he is cautious in the way he does ministry. He is an apostolic intercessory leader that will lead the Body into the next move of God with great authority. His is an establishing ministry. He will most likely be used to establish the next move of miracles and healing. I am glad the hunger for this has been stirred up in the Body of Christ.
    Again, Todd’s ministry allowed us all to see the hunger in the Body of Christ for miracles, healing and just a touch from God. Todd had flaws going into the time in which God chose to initiate his call and had not dealt with some of his problems. But God still chose to use him. Not only did his ministry reveal this hunger, but many have gotten saved. Now, hopefully, Todd will enter in the phase of being disciplined and establish his life in a new way so he can be qualified for use in the future.
    Have a good flight to Asia.
    Blessings, Chuck”

    HERE ARE MY THOUGHTS ABOUT THIS LETTER:

    I think that it is interesting that the commissioning service orchestrated by Wagner and empowered by the Apostolic “fathers” have used Todd to help promote their already planned next move of God, the Third Wave. They have already prophetically nominated their next successor to Todd. According to Chuck Pierce’s letter: “Dutch (Sheets)will walk in his call with utmost integrity because he has spent years disciplining his life, his family is in order, and he is cautious in the way he does ministry. He is an apostolic intercessory leader that will lead the Body into the next move of God with great authority. His is an establishing ministry. He will most likely be used to establish the next move of miracles and healing.”
    What ever happened to the Pastoral oversight from Todd’s own church, apart from this self appointed Apostolic Alliance that will set the “structure..and boundaries” for Todd’s life? What ever happened to the Sovereign work of God through the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Grace, Who now works in us? What is the danger of mere men electing themselves to govern over the Body of Christ, in the Name of the Lord? the last time I checked… the Bible says that JESUS CHRIST is the head of the church, not man!

    Comment by Sue | August 15, 2008

  41. >>I don’t know about you guys but he is on my prayer list no matter how demonic I feel his doctrine is

    I did not say this?

    Comment by endtimespropheticwords | August 15, 2008

  42. I’ve just re-read this and burst out laughing at the “be revived” oil sent from Chuck Pierce. It will literally be snake oil next!

    Comment by Anonymous | August 21, 2008

  43. It appears as if we are seeing 2 Timothy 3 walked out before our very eyes: People who are “lovers of self and (utterly)self-centered, lovers of money…arrogant and contemptuous boasters…they hold a form of peity…but(their conduct belies the genuinenss of their professions). (Amplified Bible)

    I hate to admit that I actually believed that these men: Bill Johnson, Rick Joyner, Peter Wagner, Todd Bentley, etc…possessed godly character.

    (Although, even before my awakening to the “insanity” of these leaders, I became increasingly alarmed as I saw the hype and manipulation being perpetrated at Lakeland by Todd, his team, and Ignited Church.)

    Now, I have also read Peter Wagner’s statement that some deacons from Ignited knew of Todd’s moral failures all the while he was “ministering.”

    It breaks my heart that these men are claiming to take higher ground (in their personal statements) while they are continuing to lie and cover their own sins. “Ordination” isn’t endorsement? No, now it’s “alignment” and “protection from critics.” And Peter Wagner still has the audacity to call Christians to “Lakeland II.” PLEASE! Are Christians really that blind, gullible, and valueless in these leaders’ eyes? To me, his “call” is a red flag signifying P.W.’s departure from reality!

    In the past, I have attended meetings where these men have spoken and(sad to say)purchased some of their books. Now, however, my eyes have been opened, and I see by their back pedaling statements(after Todd’s ordination)that they are as much to blame for the fraud perpetrated against their brothers and sisters in Christ as Todd is.

    FRAUD: intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another to part with something of value…one who is not what he pretends to be. (Websters)

    “But they will not get very far, for their rash folly will become obvious to everybody, as was that of those (magicians mentioned).” (2 Tim. 3:9 Amplified)

    I have been a Christian for 10 years, and in those 10 years, I have been to two churches: an evangelical church full of manipulation, egotism, materialism, and heirarchy. And, a Vineyard church full of manipulation, verbal and spiritual abuse, and sin swept under the carpet in the name of “saving the church”–the little people lost their heads, but the rulers still hold their positions. And sadly,the unsuspecting are still being fleeced.

    Now comes Lakeland, and I just wonder why when we have the Holy Spirit dwelling within us, we are no more righteous than the world is. And, why does the church “spiritualize” evil as acceptable in the name of good?

    Why do leaders rally around the perpetrators and ignore the victims? (I’m not saying that perpetrators don’t need healing and prayer). But it is a double evil to toss the victims aside, and I have seen this over and over.

    Comment by Kathy | August 28, 2008

  44. I was just reading ‘A Lakeland Update’ (link below) from Peter wagner and a couple of things struck me. One is that those who follow the dominist doctrine are finding out the hard way that man cannot bring about rightousness and peace on earth (not even redeemed man). Only Jesus suffered and died on the cross, only Jesus is without sin, and he alone is the king, the judge, and the head of the church.

    What hit me when I read it is that they are replacing one man-made government with another. They believe they are different than other governments because they belive they are the governors of the spiritual realm. They have no conception of what they have got themselves into. I believe God loves them too and that the way is open for them to repent and turn from this and that’s what I’m praying for. Judgment will come because what they are trying to establish is false but I believe God’s desire is that they turn and I hope that they do.

    Peter wagner’s newsletter talks about mandates, assignments, process, protocol, oversight, alignment, shifting, outsourcing, authorization, violation of apostolic protocol, principles, prescriptions, a recognized accountability structure, reactive and proactive postures—but where is Jesus and where is the Holy Spirit mentioned anywhere. They are trying to take the place of the Holy Spirit on the earth and they will completely fail. The longer they continue the more it is shown up as false.

    http://pjmiller.wordpress.com/2008/10/29/c-peter-wagner-speaks-on-lakeland-and-bentley/

    Comment by Laurie | October 30, 2008

  45. turn your minds to JESUS CHRIST THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD. HE said it is expediant that I go away so that the FATHER can send the HOLY SPIRIT to us. why do we look to others as our source of guidance when we have the WORD of GOD, our BIBLES and HIS HOLY SPIRIT to comfort us and guide us. HE said narrow is the way. Let us look to JESUS CHIST as our example and walk in the way HE showed us all thru Matthew ,Mark, Luke and John. if any one gets out of the pattern that HE set in HIS WORD we will start walking as the world does. let us tend to our own salvation with fear and trembling and trust in the LORD with all our hearts and lean not on our own understanding but acknowledge HIM in all our ways. the false prophets will come and go but the
    LORD JESUS CHRIST will forever and ever be our eternal LORD AND SAVOUR. TO GOD BE THE GLORY FOREVER AND EVER AMEN.

    Comment by Nhel O. | December 4, 2008

  46. quisiera que me escreibieran empieso mi ministerio apostolico en chihuahua,chih,mex. y me gustaria tener contacto con un apostol por consejos

    Comment by lourdes covarruvias de terazas | June 16, 2009


Leave a comment