C Peter Wagner & Doris Wagner on Healing Todd Bentley “A Demonised Mess”

Thanks again to ‘InlovewithJesus’ for this information that was emailed out from the Wagner Organisation around noon today.

“C. PETER WAGNER – President / DORIS M. WAGNER – Executive Vice President

CHUCK D. PIERCE – Harvest Watchman

A Message from Doris

My Take on the Lakeland Happenings

August 15, 2008

This past Tuesday, August 12, started out like any other tough travel day. Peter was out of the house by 4 a.m. heading to the airport for a grueling 24 plus hour trip to San Francisco, Tokyo, and finally to Singapore where he would arrive midnight the next day after crossing the International Date Line. He called me from San Francisco with his usual cheerful: “Hi, did you wake up?” He hadn’t awakened me to say goodbye since I had major surgery on my foot on August 1 and it is sometimes tough to sleep well with the cast on my foot and lower leg.

{Endtimes note: Why did Todd Bentley not pray for healing for her at Lakeland? Or any of the other signs and wonders workers in their movement pray for her healing – because Doris knows they are all false?]

Did I wake up? Man, the computer was filled with correspondence about Todd Bentley’s announcement that he was separating from his wife. This was not quite a complete surprise since late the evening before the rumor of marital strife had been dropped in our ears, but it was just a rumor. Of course we had hoped it wasn’t true. But there it was.

Since Peter doesn’t do his own email, I had to read the Lakeland Ledger newspaper article to him. He then called Chuck Pierce, who immediately wrote the following letter to Peter and e-mailed it to me and wanted to fax it to Peter in the United Airline lounge in San Francisco where he had a little layover. After some detective work (I couldn’t call him directly, his phone was busy and his battery was fading fast from overuse), I located him in the International Lounge and procured that fax number from the kind receptionist. She found him and positioned him at the fax machine where this letter from Chuck arrived:

[August 12, 2008 Chuck Pierce Letter as posted here http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/08/15/chuck-pierce-to-c-peter-wagner-re-todd-bentley-lakeland/]

To that, Peter added the following letter the “Lakeland Outpouring Apostolic Team”, Skyped it to our assistant and grabbed his plane for Tokyo and Singapore.

[The letter here: http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/08/16/c-peter-wagner-todd-bentleys-character-crisis-more-failures-to-come-out/]

Then, during all of Tuesday, until after 1 a.m. Wednesday, all of my time was spent at the computer with e-mails and they all fell into two categories: the PROS and the CONS, roughly pretty equally divided. Wednesday and Thursday, all of my waking hours have been spent answering this type of mail.

The Cons are pretty nasty. One even said: “Let me be the first to say ‘I told you so.’” These individuals asked Peter not to get involved in the “Lakeland Thing” from the onset. Some of them are probably rejoicing over Todd’s problems. Several are demanding a public apology from all who were on the platform on June 23rd, along with God TV. Many are disrespectful, seemingly calling names and slinging mud. They come across to me as jubilant in victory. I question the godliness of this attitude. Along the way we have lost friends who have ceased to trust us, pulled out of our organizations and separated from us. That’s o.k. They say we have been guilty of poor decisions and actions.

{Note that this lot are repeatedly putting words into the mouths of the critics, and attributing things to us we are not saying or doing – I know very few people who are rejoicing at the moment about this – most deeply grieve. Like I said in a previous post, it is little pleasure to be right about something as horrible as this.]

The Pros have seen things differently. They have agreed with our actions.

{But what about the Bible? Note this is not used here at all – even once. Their behaviour conflicted directly with scripture and they are accountable to God for this. Do they care]

Let me reflect a little on these actions as I see it. If I seem defensive, forgive me. Peter is such a kind and gentle person that he would never defend himself. I am a deliverance minister, and can become abrasive when I see Religious Spirits, Pharisaical Spirits, Spirits of jealousy, envy and even hatred become exposed.

{Ah so all the critics are religious, jealous and envious and hating? Not loving watchmen seeking to protect the flock from wolves savaging them? How loving and godly was is for Wagner to promote himself, his false apostles and false doctrines – as well as Bentley - at Lakeland – and publically endorse him?

For all her deliverance knowledge (and indeed her arrogance), Doris fails to discern false doctrine, antichrist spirits, blasphemous spirits, cheating spirits and lying spirits – evidently? Not just in Bentley but in many of the apostles and prophets aligned with her husband’s antichrist movements.]

The fattest of all is the Accuser of the Brethren very much at work in the current situation.

{So whenever critcism comes, it is always the devil doing it? This is not true or biblical!]

Whenever Peter is falsely accused in print, he usually just smiles and says “Did they spell my name right?” If things get really bad with false accusations, by a John Doe, he will serenely say “John Doe is not the enemy-we know who the enemy really is.” This ability to handle the negative really bugs some folks and they dislike him even more. Believe me, my pillow has been next to his for 58 years and I have seen this played out. There doesn’t seem to be a wide neutral zone, either he is liked or disliked. That’s just the way it is.

{Yeah but err..how has Wagner been falsely accused? He endorsed Bentley at Lakeland and is now lying about it and passing the buck. That is disgraceful. On top of this there is false prophecy and false teaching in Wagner’s false movement that has gone on for years – this is not just about Todd Bentley. And these guys – the same guys that created Lakeland and the beast Bentley have the cheek to offer to fix this for the church?!]

Peter is a man of the highest integrity. He’s a man of his word, as honest as the day is long. He has kept his wedding vows-no need to renew them, the old ones are still perfectly good! He has been total fun to live with and to raise our children together. He has treated me as a colleague with great respect. He is brilliant and godly. As we have been working on his memoirs, I have been amazed at what we have accomplished together, and we have worked side by side all of our married lives. Of all women, I consider myself to be highly blessed. Enough of that.

{Oh Peter is so wonderful. Yeah right. As honest as the day is long? With all the lies and charltanism abounding in this movement?!  And his latest lies, backtracking and passing the buck? Shame he is a lying deciever and false prophet and false apostle, eh?]

Peter did not jump into the “Lakeland Thing” lightly.

{So he did jump on it then, by your own admittance?]

He thought about it, prayed about it and we talked it over. Did “the outpouring” or Todd have some imperfections? Absolutely. Peter was asked to help out to set things in order and to investigate what some folks thought might be doctrinally “iffy.” He was asked to do this by Lakeland’s host, Stephen Strader, a colleague in the International Coalition of Apostles, which Peter leads. It was a “Macedonian Call” for help. That is Peter’s job. Many of the Con people mentioned above thought Peter should have said no to this plea. After serious thought, prayer and consultation, particularly with our most closely related prophet, Chuck Pierce, we decided to move forward.

{Most closely related prophet, Chuck Pierce? Wow that says a lot. Apart from this directly contradicting previous testimony that Todd was commissioned because of his enemies and this was a public endorsement – when has Wagner come forward with any report about the iffy goings on there, or even stated there were iffy goings on and that was his purpose there. He only previously gave the impression of endorsing Todd and Lakeland and alikened Todd to John Wimber! We are STILL waiting for this iffy report – yet within just hours this lot produced multiple reports about Todd’s failing marriage – this says much about their current priorities AND also their integrity or lack thereof.]

We felt as though there was a legitimate anointing on Todd’s life.

{because he falsely prophesied your agendas and promoted you?]

We knew he was an imperfect person but our honest desire was to sort out and save the good. The other charge against us is that we stupidly could not recognize that these miracles were being done under the power of a satanic spirit and that we were totally lacking in discernment. My answer to that is, there probably was some of the flesh at work on some occasions, and people operating with a higher level of discernment may have picked up on some things we could not. I seriously question whether a satanic spirit got away with all of the good. My conclusion is that it was mixed and we wanted to help sort out the good. The Apostolic Team of 11 apostles which Peter put together is still in the process of sorting all of that out, and time is needed to do that.

{Why is time needed when something is blatantly obvious?  Time is only needed to cover up…

It is also amazing that these guys can rapidly issue multiple statements about Bentley’s divorce within just hours, but not issue any statements in four months re all the false prophecy, lies and cheating etc etc]

The most serious charge against us is that the alignment meeting of June 23 was absolutely wrong (implying that at best we were misled, at worst committed a grave sin in so doing). Our thought was to bring alignment to Todd, thereby gaining the right to speak into his life and ministry as he accepted the apostolic oversight of Che Ahn, Bill Johnson and John Arnott. This was accomplished. Please reread Peter’s paper sent out to our entire mailing list a few days ago. Peter did not “ordain” Todd, as some journalists keep saying over and over wanting it to become truth. He blessed him, yes! Isn’t it strange that all the negative things surfaced so soon after alignment took place and Todd agreed to oversight?

{All the negative things? They were there from the beginning and “out” already!  Some were even committed that night before their eyes and they still commissioned Todd. And Peter Wagner did decree all these amazing things that never came to pass – so what does this say about Wagner’s apostleship? Or of the prophets that prophesied all that wonderful stuff over Todd that night? What does this say about their prophetic ability and also their discernment? THAT THEY ARE FALSE, THAT IS WHAT!

Also they – anybody - had a right to speak up about the things going on – nobody needs apostolically aligned to anybody else in order for someone to say what someone doing is morally or spiritually wrong]

I see all of this as God’s great mercy and love.

{Huh?}

Lots of critics just plain don’t like Todd’s looks. He’s tattooed and pierced and dresses down on the platform. I wouldn’t want my son to look like that, but to throw it all out at the cost of throwing out the anointing needs to be carefully considered.

{Yawn, people don’t. Why deliberately misquote the critics, Mrs Wagner? ]

But then the world didn’t think much of John the Baptist who probably wore smelly camel pelts and ate bugs.

{uh huh, but he did not cover himself with demonic tattoos, or lie about when he got them. Or falsely prophesy or blaspheme or preach a distorted gospel or rob and abuse the saints…]

Jesus had other thoughts about John, however. As I work in the field of deliverance we start with what wants help and go from there.

{John did not need deliverance.  And also, crucially, when and where did you start? You only speak up now, long after the horse has already bolted. This is just plain hypocritical.]

To see some major transformation in a person’s life is a miracle often witnessed. We work with some raunchy raw material at times and our only prerequisite is that they want to be helped. It’s enough. Man, indeed, looks at the outward appearance, but God looks at the heart. Let’s look at hearts and the hand of God, and bless what He is blessing.

{And the critics did not go by appearances and looked at the heart and did not like Todd’s heart one bit. I have not yet heard confession or repentence from that heart or from those that promoted him.]

Todd is in a perfect spot for help.

{Why aren’t any of you mentioning SIN and CONFESSION and REPENTENCE?]

The night of June 23 when we were there, Todd gave a long testimony. He has been wounded, and has wounded others along the way. He is still a young man, rescued from the streets and a biker society. He is not highly schooled or terribly polished. He does not fit the scholarly, seminary finishing school mold. He has not had the advantage of a solid steady home environment. But then again God has this habit of not choosing the things that we would choose. I could easily see that Todd needs deep inner healing and professional-level deliverance he has not yet had the opportunity to receive. One of our critics said that we got it backwards and should have taken him into a back room and ministered to him before the ceremony. We had the luxury of a few minutes with Todd before the evening meeting. We had never met the man before. Was I to say “Hey, Todd, you’re a mess and need help in the next five minutes”?

{Note the glowing report that they gave of Todd on June 24th on the Elijah List which contradicts all this. IF they honestly thought Todd was a demonised mess, that needed “professional” deliverance and inner healing – coming from them of course, (how proud and elitist) – then they confess not only did they not administer much needed ministry to him, but they falsely testified and allowed a demonised man to continue to minister to the masses with satanic impartations… and if Todd is the demonised mess they testify to, then what does this say about his angels, his visions, his impartations and anointings and transference? And what does it say about his glory and healing anointing he basks in? And his claims that he has been healed and his marriage restored – he even claimed this on June 23rd! It means he falsely testified yet again.

And crucially, why is NOW the time to minister to him, not then? Because it is now public and you can slap yourselves on the back and endorse yourselves once again, you hypocrits?]

The prescribed protocol is to put things in proper alignment first, then be in a position to speak into his life.

{according to?]

That opportunity is presenting itself now. Todd now has the opportunity to address some character flaws and get them healed and corrected in order to carry the anointing God has given him. We in deliverance and inner healing minister to these things daily-they are nothing to be ashamed of.

{Ok so Todd is to be healed and delivered of his charater flaws – all without confession and repentence – wow! Not his fault really. Pass the buck, zero true acountability.

And what anointing is it exactly that God has given him? Really? There are no medically verified healings so it is not healing, their is only false prophecy so it is not prophecy, it is not preaching or teaching as he teaches and preaches a false gospel, it is not love, as he mocks and abuses the saints, it is not social care or compassion as he only graps money for himself - and so what does that leave? He has no integrity or holiness so according to I John this man is not even in Christ or of God, or in the ONE true anointing.]

Not to deal with them out of pride or denial is where the shame can take hold. I worked with dairy cows as a kid and picked up some of their lice once. My mom told me as she treated my head with some smelly remedy “The shame is not in getting lice, the shame is in keeping them.” I never had lice again!

{What does the Bible say about sin? Not this! Doris is effectively saying there is no shame in sin? Wow!]

Be assured that Todd’s overseers, Che, John and Bill along with Peter are hard at work.

[I am sure they are, but not with godly motives and agendas.]

Please give us some time. Peter is in Singapore and goes on to Indonesia for a few days and will not be back until next week. Che is ministering in Korea. Bill and John have killer schedules all summer long. We are working as best and as fast as we can, but there are constraints that slow us a little. Things like thousands of miles and schedules that cannot be changed, and when it is day here it is night in Asia.

I am very optimistic. I see a door of opportunity swung wide open. I see a wonderful, merciful God reaching out. What many are calling a rotten mess I see as a splendid chance for one of the church’s finest hours. The mess was there festering for a while anyway, now let’s fix it. Is Todd’s situation a strange thing? The breakup of the family is one of the most common societal problems we face today. How many other couples contemplating family breakup could be encouraged to get help if this is a successful rehabilitation?

{Todd’s marriage breakup is the least of the problems! What of the others, Mrs Wagner?]

Todd now has some fathers by his side to help in time of need and to avoid shipwreck if he chooses to accept that help. He now has some authority in his life, and parameters are comforting to kids. He is deeply loved by many who are in a position to help spiritually, emotionally and mentally. He is a place of protection he did not have the luxury of before June 23.

{Wow. Talk about taking the place of God and elevating this ungodly crew!  Being in the “luxury” of being “In a place of protection” from spiritual fathers.  Spiritual fathers? This is an ungodly phrase for a start and these men are not spiritual and not fathers.  And how is Todd in a place of protection he was not in June 23rd. Can these apostles take away his sin?]

Let me close by asking and a few questions:

Might it be that there is a hunger for revival as never before in our country? I think so.

Might it be that God wants to send us that revival and is anxious to do so but needs the right persons and proper government in His church to look after it? I think so.

{Of course you would think so. Seeing as you think false prophets and false apostles are that proper government, and you just so happen to be married to the “pope”. There you have it folks, if you want revival you must come under the false apostles.  And does that mean Mrs Wagner is testifying that Lakeland was false?]

Could it be that there was true anointing in an imperfect vessel and a merciful God wanted to set up circumstances to bring healing to Todd? I think so.

{True anointing?! Yeah right. How can this be? Doris tetsifies for a God of false prophets and liars when she says this]

Could it be that when one apostle asked another for help in separating truth from error in a situation of mixture, that error began to surface so quickly? Isn’t the church better off when error is exposed and corrected? I think so.

{But I thought it was demonic individuals, satanists and warlocks that were exposing error? I guess this means the apostles are saying they are the only ones able to deal with error when it suits them. Which isn’t yet apparently.

Error was surfaced and exposed from the beginning. And it has still not been corrected by the false apostles despite all the talk.

Doris Wagner is claiming it is apostolic oversight that brought this error out into the open? And there it was me thinking it was ABC Nightline!]

Could it be that God brought alignment, authority and order into the Lakeland situation and once that order was established Todd was in a safe place to be ministered to? If a wounded soul gets help and is rehabilitated, isn’t that good? Isn’t it wonderful to have a restoration process in place to help a brother back to useful service and full use of his gifts and anointing? If he decides not to be helped, we have done our job in making that help available, and his overseers have charge of his care.

{Wonderful to use false gifts and false anointing? Who would want that, or think that is good, but the evil one?]

Isn’t this what the church is supposed to look like? I think so. If we fail, at least we will have tried. Not to have tried would have been failure to do what God required of us at this point in time.

{Not God, dear. You do not work for God.]

Now here is where you come in. PLEASE PRAY. Ask God to so minister to Todd to soften his heart and to reach out for help, and to be fully healed. Ask God to help him to be willing to submit to the apostolic oversight that has been put in place. Ask God to heal his marriage and protect and bless his wife and three children.

{Where is the specific PUBLIC confession and repentence, and the specific public rebuke? Not just by Todd but all the others complicit in this dirty business?

“Apostolic Oversight put into place” – put into place NOT By God though by men. Why would I ask God to put Todd, an unrepentent brazen liar, cheat and evil, dirty man, under more unrepentent spiritually dark liars and evil men? To what end would I want this? For this is the devil’s doing, the promotion and elevaton of the antichrist NAR as has always been the plan, and I will have no part of it!]

This episode has the potential of being one of the finest hours the church has seen in recent years.

{!!!!  Finest Hour because it elevates them!}

I implore you to pray. Because this has all been so public it is all of our business

{Because it is public we have issued public statements, otherwise we would have kept it covered it up.]

and we must act on our knees. We have a real enemy capable of infiltrating the church

{Cue – that’s the Wagner’s NAR]

 to truncate this process. Let’s fight for victory!

Sincerely, in Christ,

Doris”