Bill Johnson on Todd Bentley: Admits Previous Affair & Blames Present Affair on Todd’s Critics!
Thanks to ‘Kiev’ who directed me to this video here and transcribed it for me - the first few minutes of Bill Johnson’s sermon this week about Todd Bentley. Bill Johnson essentially says he won’t blame the opposition, but then immediately proceeds to blame them entirely for the outcome!
Bill Johnson:
“A great tragedy has come to light this past week. Todd Bentley the revivalist, who has been leading the Lakeland Outpouring meetings, has been having a major meltdown and has ended up filing for divorce – as a partial result of this particular meltdown.
{Endtimes thoughts – So it is the “meltdown’s” fault for Todd sinning – blamed from sheer pressure of work and the critic’s pressure – so all God’s fault really, not poor old fraudulent Todd’s. Not Todd’s guilt to own caused by his own sins from pressure of his sinful nature?]
This comes at the worst possible time, both for the revival and for those who have stood with him. Back in June, Che Ahn, John Arnott, and I went to Lakeland, Florida to do a commissioning service for Todd. We felt the need to stand with him as his opposition was great.
{As previously discussed the opposition was there for a very good reason! Because Todd was a liar etc…]
We can be a strength to Todd in this time, especially John and Che could be a great asset, as they’ve endured incredible opposition during the Toronto Outpouring.
{The reason you guys went was long term self promotion as well as coverup. Your “help” and “strength” obviously was not enough if that is what you really went for. But what of the Lord’s strength – ever consider that?]
Peter Wagner, a great great man of God, tremendous man of integrity,
{Integrity? In light of Wagner’s recent lying and backtracking statement!]
helped oversee and lead that part of the meeting. Although he had not personally endorsed the revival (now, I need to make the part of it clear, it wasn’t an opposition but he hadn’t been involved enough to be willing to endorse it)
{Bill needs to make this clear because of C Peter Wagner’s orders. Wagner, of course, is trying to distance himself from the revival and pretending he did not really promote Todd Bentley…when everyone can clearly see he DID.]
he felt it important enough to risk personal criticism from his peers in order to bring Todd into an apostolic alignment for his own safety.
{For his own safety. Don’t you love these obnoxious lying prophets’s spin on things in hindsight?]
I did not go to Lakeland to stand on the platform with Todd Bentley because he was perfect in character, or because we agreed on everything he was doing in Lakeland. I stood with Todd, in Lakeland, because of his enemies.
The relentless criticism and opposition, coupled with a sometime grueling unwise schedule, was bound to take its toll on this young man – emotionally, mentally, physically, and spiritually. It happened two years ago, it could happen again.
{Uh huh. Blame it on God.]
I was involved in a-a-a restoration process to help Todd a couple years ago, in this very area. And it was thought to all of us involved that the healing had taken place,
{Note he talks about healing not SIN – and note also he admits their healing is not complete or effective – nor is their discernment. He has stated elsewhere these problems have been there for years]
when in fact there were areas that just weren’t dealt with. He just drug it into this great outpouring.
[So then it was not the revival's fault, the schedule's fault, or anything else, if YOU did not deal with the real issues which were SIN and repentence and fear of the Lord - generally in all areas of his life because evidently none were there and a child could see this. Because let us not forget he was sinning from Day One by lying.... and indeed even long before Day One at Lakeland. And these guys want us to believe they honestly did not know.]
It was my intention to bring a deflection into the mix so that he wouldn’t have to take all the heat by himself. Little did I realize it was too late. He was out to place a burnout again, abandoning his marriage, pulling out of all public ministry. While I’ll never blame Todd or Todd’s opponents for Todd’s bad choices – I mean, in no matter what condition you find yourself, in no matter what kind of opposition or circumstances are around you, we can never blame anyone else for our bad decisions.
{Decisions = sin]
Because there is always a grace available for the circumstances that we are in, to make righteous decisions and to always choose well and have the Lord defend us. Are you with me on this? I’ll never blame the opponents of this outpouring for Todd’s choices. However, it had a greater effect on the outcome than any of his critics will likely own up to in this lifetime. History proves this.”
{Endtimes note – but where were Todd Bentley’s critics two or three years – practically nowhere? And he did the same thing THEN – commit adultery – so he cannot blame it on either this revival’s work schedule or its critics! Elsewhere Johnson has also acknowledged that these issues were there for years – so he cannot even make up one excuse and stick to it and keep his story straight!]
Bill Johnson then continues to talk about apostolic dominion in the video. The “Shift” as people abandon denominations and become one ”family” – that means unity under Wagner’s NAR spiritual fathers – which funny enough this revival was always about. It is the apostles seeking to use this fall for their own gain – don’t let them!
“We need to work to transition the church from denominationalism to family..and I want to tell you why…..denominationalism is not healthy and the reason denominations were initially formed because groups of people had agreement in common doctrine and that agreement was what brought them together. When your foundation is doctrinal agreement…you have to remove the part that is the oddball; you have to get rid of anything or anyone that doesn’t conform. And even now this kind of a statement dials up religious values in good people that don’t realize that they have been trained by a system that is deficient, its defective.”
Comment from Sheeple on this last paragraph from here:
“Johnson relegates the criticism against Lakeland and Bentley to a “denominational spirit” and he even goes on to say that there are people in denominations who don’t have a denominal spirit and some not in denominations who do have a denominational spirit….. he tries to characterize the position of the critics by making it a denominational issue. The problem is, the majority of the worse critics are all coming from non-denominational – charismatic people. A quick tour of Charisma Magazine’s forums will prove enlightening, which incidentailly forced them to shut down the board with all of the anti-Todd posts.”
Sheeple also made the excellent point then:
“if you were helping Todd ” a couple years ago”, wasn’t Todd “aligned” then? The double speak from you people is unreal….The spin that is being offered in Wagner’s defense is that Bentley had to be brought into alignment before correction could be offered. However, due to the fact that Bill Johnson and others had to restore Todd previously due to similar moral issues, wouldn’t Todd already have been in “alignment” even though there was no official corronation?”
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see also http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/08/16/bill-johnson-on-todd-shonnah-bentley-marriage-separation/
The apostles were under more pressure than he was, and they did not have a burnout, and commit adultery. I hope some negative things are the past now, and we can spend more time preparing for our Lords’ return.
blessings
marianne
http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/
Miriam, I almost couldn’t bear to watch this. This is Bentley on stage with his children early on in Lakeland. it’s only a couple of minutes long.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le8po2SZJ1k&eurl=
Lord, have mercy.
Scott
Dear Bill Johnson:
Excuse me, sir, but you need to figure out that the “opposition” to Todd Bentley before any of us knew about his sexual sin that was apparently ongoing throughout the Lakeland impartation,
HAD TO DO WITH THE DOCTRINES OF DEMONS YOU, BILL JOHNSON and CHE AHN, and BOB JONES and PAUL CAIN and C PETER WAGNER and RICK JOYNER and BILL HAMON and WILLIAM BRANHAM espouse.
Todd’s sin is EXACTLY what Jesus says comes about after the false doctrines and false teachings of Jezebel occurs. Jezebel teaches worship of idols (the whole scam of the Apostolic Prophetic Cult is built upon idolatry) and sexual immorality.
It is because of the familiar spirits of false prophets like Bob Jones and his gang that Todd Bentley, only naturally, according to God, fell into sexual immorality.
You want to pin Todd’s sin on his critics? We were pinning Todd’s sin on you from the start.
I wrote my little church an open letter back in JUNE saying that because of the Baal worshipping antics of Jones and Cain, Todd was being deceived and we needed to pray for him.
You sir, need to burn all your Latter Rain and Manifest Sons of God hereies.
And then maybe you’ll wake up to see that Bob Jones and all of his cronies are FALSE PROPHETS and should never be given ANY platform by you or any other normal charismatic again.
How DARE you try to say it is the true Christians rising up in arms over the insane “praying with angels” or “praying to Angels” or not discerning angels or kicking old ladies in the face and calling it Jesus’ healing touch — how DARE you tell us now that Todd fell because of our concern for the flock?
Where is your concern, Bill Johnson, for the deceived body that received contanimated demonic impartations from Lakeland?
What is your solution, Bill, to this demonic and unclean impartation that YOU AUTHORIZED out of Lakeland?
THAT IS THE QUESTION, SIR.
Where is your concern for the flock who was deceived by Lakeland?
I am appalled at this cowardice and blaming spirit of yours, Mr. Bill Johnson.
Good Questions AriseMyLove. Well Done!
This is the fruit of hypnotism mixing with charismatic. I witnessed the “world’s greatest living hypnotist” (google that one..) involved with a ministry in Toronto.
I even witnessed this “born again” still practicing on stages- hypnotist lay on hands for the baptism of the holy spirit and annointing with oil. This is detestable in the sight of god as you will see in scripture. I believe this false annointing crossed over to todd Bentley’s ministry. Deception is the root here..
I have seen amazing and annointed people of God allow this practicing hypnotist to minister. At the time, I saw that this false and deceptive annointing would destroy and deceive many strong believers.
Well said AriseMyLove.
I am off to ‘google’
How do you all know for sure he committed adultery,because his people have strongly DENIED that he did that..? So where do you all get your info from..?
Elizabeth, can you say anything more?
I had a look and think you’re talking about a hypnotist called Mike Mandel, but there seems to be nothing to suggest he’s ever had any christian involvement.
I did find an endorsement for a “Third Millenium Bible” from a Pastor Mike Mandel, who was described as a Pentecostal Minister & Adult Bible Teacher from Toronto, which I think is also where the hypnotist is based. Are they one and the same person?
(I did think I might find Benny Hinn described as the world’s greatest living hypnotist!!).
Todd is a lying freak and he knows it and people who associate themself with this freak should fall to their knees and ask God to help them. I’m glad that this thing (Todd) is being exposed before he hurts and robs other people of their money and salvation. God wants you to come to him just as you are and he’ll change you. To this date there still isn’t one documented proof of anybody being raised from the dead and yet dumb people will still stand by this sinner and support him. Todd needs to just go away and take GODTV with him. You’re better off watching a dirty rotten movie than watching Todd and his band of clowns on GODTV.
Do you know what is wrong with all their little speeches? NONE of them are pointing Tod to the cross. It is still about covering their own butts!
I am personally writing to all these ministry heads that are sending out letters such as Bill Johnson’s, so they can hear it from me how I feel about their deception.
I do pray for the church to open it’s eyes wide and see the infiltration of new age methods and practices, terminology and lack of teaching on basic doctrines of testing, judging and watching over the sheep.
I also pray for these leaders to get a “revelation” of just how awesome, holy and just God is. Not a “paddy daddy” of “give me more and more and more, Lord”. Mainly, meaning, more power, more money.
[...] to End Times for posting this little gem (no pun intended..I suppose), from Bill Johnson’s latest message [...]
Pingback by Sheeple Blog–News, Commentary, Christian Perspective » Blog Archive » Bentley’s Fall: It’s the Critic’s Fault… | August 19, 2008
As Sheeple says:
“Also, if you were helping Todd ”a couple years ago”, wasn’t Todd “aligned” then? The double speak from you people is unreal.
The spin that is being offered in Wagner’s defense is that Bentley had to be brought into alignment before correction could be offered. However, due to the fact that Bill Johnson and others had to restore Todd previously due to similar moral issues, wouldn’t Todd already have been in “alignment” even though there was no official coronation?”
In that video Bill Johnson said that it would be inappropriate for him to discuss anything regarding Todd’s restoration, or lack thereof, with the rest of the body of Christ. We don’t want personal juicy details, we simply want genuine repentance for lying to the body and portraying Christianity as a circus to the rest of the world. But Bill Johnson and the other “apostles” don’t really believe in simple public repentance. Instead, he compared Todd’s critics to those in David’s army who shoved Uriah to the front line and then backed off leaving him alone to die. Yet how did we shove Todd out there? Todd himself was greatly sinning from the beginning. With or without his critics he was still sinning and brought his own fall upon himself. So it’s not Todd’s sin that caused this fall, but his critics!?! So, basically, Bill Johnson believes that even if Todd repented (which he wont) we would still demand him satisfaction (as if we would burn him at the stake). Who does he think we are – unforgiving heathens? Is this the inquisition? If Todd were to simply repent and all the leaders who lied with him, wouldn’t that enable the Body of Christ to heal far faster than the arrogant stance these “apostles” are taking? They won’t abandon a pathological lying false prophet, but they instead say “to hell with his critics, we could care less about what they have to say”.
And he and his followers believe Todd’s critics are operating in the flesh for the applause of men. Yet Bill Johnson himself scoffs and ridicules at Todd’s opposition to the hollers, laughs, applause, and hoots of his congregation. So he doesn’t seem to be living up to a Godly standard of rebuke that he would like to believe he represents. Do as I say, not as I do… Who is in the flesh here? Christianity all around, that is rightfully outraged at this blatant defilement and profaning of God’s name, or these lying apostles?
And then he goes on in his sermon to attack the agency of the church and call for a “family” movement (new-age rhetoric) away from “Church”. I am so absolutely vexed with Christian leaders and the lay bashing Church as if it is evil. The church which was founded upon the rock, the church that the gates of hell have never prevailed against, the church that will stand unblemished at the return of Christ. What would a bridegroom do to one who reviles his bride?
I remember my childhood pastor making a comment as he listened to a sermon by Bill Johnson at a major conference in our city. He said, “Man, this guy is really rewiring the way I think.” And I see now that he has successfully rewired large portions of western Christianity into this new-age nonsense and can convince his followers that he is absolutely in the right. Man, just watching him… I almost felt a bit hypnotic and agreeing with him. It’s as if we are supposed to check our brains at the door before listening to him.
Revelation 2:19-22: “I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first. Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds.”
I really am saddened to see christian people attacking the body of Christ like this. We are all sinners each and every one of us and we do serve a merciful and loving God. I think instead of Judging others we should pray for them. It is not our place to judge only Gods. God bless Todd for all the wonderful things he has done, and my prayers go out to him and his family.
Michelle, todd was flying in the face of God. He was not preaching the true Gospel it has ALL been proven to be lies and it is because we have all stood up and called it what it really is that he was brought to light. And we were only doing what God instructs us to do in His word. I for one would not want to answer to God on judgement day and have Him ask, Why did you not say anything when you knew full well it was not of Me? What am I supposed to say, ummm Father, I didn’t want people to critize me so I said nothing and let many be led astray??? NO! False is false is false! And we are not judging, we are calling out as God said to do!
Michelle,
Who is attacking the body of Christ? The bible is full of examples where believers correct other believers, and warnings of those, like Bentley, who spread false doctrines and heresies. Yes, we serve a merciful and loving God … one who loves us enough to correct and rebuke us, and warn us from following those that would lead our souls to hell. We are admonished to judge the actions and teachings of others, lest we fall into their same errors.
Mushy sentimental love is not what Jesus taught. He taught love that was founded on truth and obedience to God. Love that has no backbone is not love at all, but rather good feelings. There is a huge difference.
Bethel And Pastor Bill Johnson and all the leadership of that house are great people.
Bill will not humiliate someone, He is only praying for Todd ,unlike others , leaders , online webpages such as these who love to tear the man apart.
I have great respect for Bethel, I am a student there.
I love that house and this note is really hurtful.
I agree with Kathie at #12. There is no focus on repentance and holiness, and people are exposed to the demonic when they “go into the spirit” without dealing with spiritual issues in their life that keep them away from the Lord.
Evil spirits can be very sweet and deceiving. I come from a country where many amazing things were done by these spirits through people. The difference between those people and the deception among the spiritism in the church, is that they never claimed to be ministers of the gospel, so it was much easier to distance yourself from them. I must also add that those people were often more hospitable and friendly than the “ministers of the gospel!”
I watched Angie Carpenter in worship…nothing of holiness but all about visualization etc. The Blood of Jesus saved us but we are now responsible for what we do with our lives; follow the Lord or covenant with demons. It is almost certain you will be deceived to do the latter, if you do not love Jesus with all you have, so that you do not tolerate anything that is not of Him. He has to be Lord over all of your life and only then will His peace guide you.
Check your spirit always. Ask the Lord to expose anything that is not of Him. Deal with it and be right with Him. Times are critical and deception is rampant in the church, but we can be totally at peace and full of joy because He will protect a sincere heart before Him.
Hi Michelle:
We are told in Scripture to judge within the church; God judges those outside. It’s not their heart that’s being judged, it’s their actions/fruit. It’s God’s mercy that He allows us to fall apart, so, that if we submit and repent, He can reconstruct from the foundation (assuming that the foundation that only Christ can build is there).
I pray that the Lord uses your gift of mercy to serve those in need. A gift like that, applied to His heartbeat (widows and orphans) is soooo powerful.
I think Bill Johnson did a great job explaining an important side that we should consider. However it would have been good if he dealt more with telling people how they should focus on the Lord and not the man/woman behind the pulpit. Who cares for our reputations anyway? It is the Lord’s heart for His people and His reputation that is most important.
Todd’s emphasis on angels etc. borders on new age and a dangerous deception in many ways…Did he have the character of Christ that comes from intimacy with the Lord? Not as far as I know. So Todd is an instrument who was bold enough to go out to Lakeland. Some experienced God there; some say the impartations brought the demonic and they had to be deivered. I think it depends on each person and their heart before the Lord. If you sought Jesus at the Lakeland meetings, you found Him. If you were in awe of Todd Bentley and his angel sightings etc. you got what he had. This does not mean he cannot repent and come right with God.
Michelle,
Did I hear you right? Are you asking God to BLESS Todd for lying, telling people to ‘believe in the angel’ instead of Jesus, bragging about speaking with the dead, his separation and infidelity, his drunkennes, his preaching a false gospel, and his false healings?
You think that God should bless him for that? I ask God to bless those here who (unlike all the so-called prophets and apostles that CLAIM to be so close to God) used God’s word to warn the body about this false prophet months ago.
As for attacking the body of Christ, I, as well as you, hat to see people attack the body of Christ. But, by his teachings and his actions, both before and now, BIBLICALLY SPEAKING Todd Bentley proves that he is not part of the body of Christ.
Pray? Yes, pray for Todd’s salvation.
SK – you should love the word of God and truth more than any man.
It may well be hurtful to you to hear BIblical criticism, but the truth is these guys are lying to you and robbing you and leading astray and do not return the same love – that must surely sting. If you don’t believe me, seek God’s face on it.
#12. Kathy, you said,”I am personally writing to all these ministry heads that are sending out letters such as Bill Johnson’s, so they can hear it from me how I feel about their deception.”
I couldn’t agree more! I have written an open letter to them all! It needs to be addressed!
It seems that the title of this blog directly contradicts what Bill Johnson says. I find 2 places where he explicitly says he will NOT blame Todd’s opponents for what happened. He says essentially that the opponents criticism taken together with everything else took a toll on Todd which caused Todd to make bad choices. Interesting how you have concluded otherwise immediately to the point of making your own conclusion in the title. This is why this blog cannot be taken seriously at times…. because you interpret other people’s reality and what they say with your own assumptions and judgments.
I like the content on this blog that has to do with discussing theology; like when the rapture is going to take place.
It will never fail to have Christians quickly blame other Christians for being judgmental when they themselves quickly equate genuine frustration (”having a feeling of being upset or annoyed, esp. because of inability to change or achieve something”) to arrogance (”having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one’s own importance or abilities”) and judge us for being ungodly with our Biblical warnings. We are told to hate the sin but love the sinner. Jesus didn’t tell us to hate the Nicolaitan, he told us to hate the DEEDS of the Nicolaitans. I do not believe anyone here hates Bill Johnson or hates Todd Bentley. We definitely hate the demonic spirits that are influencing these men, but we do not hate the men. They can repent and be restored. We must take off our filters of wishy-washy love and become far more real and genuine with each other instead of accepting everything and saying nothing because we are too afraid to speak truth in love.
Dave, there is no contradiction. He said: “I’ll never blame the opponents of this outpouring for Todd’s choices. However, it had a greater effect on the outcome than any of his critics will likely own up to in this lifetime.” So he is blaming the pressure of the critics for Todd’s sins? So it’s not Todd’s free moral agency, but peer pressure for repentance that caused him to sin? Todd was sinning long before his critics even spoke out. And even if there was pressure from critics, this should never cause someone to choose sin. It’s completely ridiculous to assert such. No, Bill Johnson said he wouldn’t blame but then did exactly that.
I have not heard anyone mention the fact that Bob Johnson (Bill Johnson’s brother) of City Ministries International in San Francisco also divorced recently. He sent a letter to his supporters announcing his divorce and the need to keep the details private to protect his children. It seems that divorce seems to be the fruit of this “prophetic” movement.
You may want to read this in context before leaping. Also I suggest going to the site below and watch the most recent video. I still stand by Todd as a sister in Christ. Do I agree with everything no but I will pray for him.. I suggest you all do the same. Blessings.
A Letter from Bill Johnson
A great tragedy has come to light this past week. Todd Bentley, the revivalist who has been leading the Lakeland Outpouring meetings, has had a major meltdown and has filed for divorce. This comes at the worst possible time both for the revival and for those who have stood with him.
Back in June, Che Ahn , John Arnott, and I went to Lakeland, Florida, to do a commissioning service for Todd. We felt the need to stand with him. Opposition against him was great, and we could be a great strength to Todd in that time. John and Che especially could be a great asset as they had endured incredible opposition during the Toronto outpouring. Peter Wagner helped to oversee and lead that part of the meeting. Although he had not personally endorsed the revival, he felt it important enough to risk personal criticism from his peers to bring Todd into an apostolic alignment for his own safety.
I did not go to Lakeland and stand on the platform with Todd Bentley because he was perfect in character or because we agreed on everything he was doing in Lakeland. I went to Lakeland because of his enemies. The relentless criticism and opposition, coupled with the grueling and sometimes unwise schedule, were bound to take their toll on this young man—emotionally, mentally, physically, and spiritually. It happened two years ago, and it could happen again. It was my intention to bring a deflection into the mix so that he wouldn’t take all the heat by himself. Little did I realize it was too late. He was at the place of burnout again, abandoning his marriage and pulling out of all public ministry. While I will never blame Todd’s opponents for Todd’s bad choices (Todd alone is responsible for them) their opposition had a greater effect than any of his critics will likely own up to in this lifetime.
Now what? Pray for Todd and Shonnah for complete healing in their marriage and personal lives. Pray for those giving counsel to them that they would use great wisdom.
Please know that while we may not give details of our efforts, we are doing everything possible to help bring healing and order to this tragedy.
Blessings!
Bill Johnson
For those wanting to hear a more complete statement, the August 17, 2008, Sunday morning service was given for this cause. You can watch it for free on the iBethel.org website .
I am having a hard time with the supposed “watchmen” on the wall who call themselves prophets, yet cannot discern show business when they see it. Many people over the past 4 months have asked me what I thought about what was going on in Florida, and Todd Bentley, citing the “prophets and apostles” who supported him. All I could tell them was that they needed to get into the Word themselves, and not look for signs and wonders, and not go to and fro because of a famine of the hearing, (understanding, obeying) the Word themselves. Why should anyone be surprised at what has happened. The Word is clear about novices, clear about not seeking signs, clear about not sharing God’s glory, clear about false prophets. It doesn’t take rocket science, it takes disciplining yourself and getting into the Word.
A Letter to Bill Johnson From A Child
Bill, we would like to be one big happy family and play nice (like no scary electricity or vibrations!) but first we gotta know if we have the same Father. Our Daddy says there are bad people out there who just LOOK like his kids, but aren’t, and that they actually want to HURT us so he says we have to careful about playing with strangers.
You and your friends do some things that our Daddy doesn’t let US do, like lie, and make people give you their money for no good reason at all, and bully others (one of your friends did VERY bad things like kicking an old lady in the face, and nobody told him to STOP IT!) and I know our Daddy would want us to stop people from doing these bad things. So this is very confusing to me.
And Daddy always likes us to be very well-behaved in public, so we don’t give the wrong impression to other kids, and they won’t want to be adopted into our family, and thats sad ’cause Daddy loves those stray kids. I’m sorry to say this to you Bill, but I’ve seen you on TV with some very WEIRD people like that lady who shook her head and hissed those strange words, and I sure wouldn’t want to be in HER family! You should tell her to mind her manners better! Daddy helps US to be orderly in public, so I don’t think his training is bad at all, if that is what “defective” means. He asks us to read his letters a lot when he’s gone so we remember what pleases him. We love him so much we read his letters over and over again, because he uses such wise words. I reeallly think you should read his letters more Bill, your talking might be better. You know, plain and easy to understand. Daddy always says when you love the true things it is easy to understand his words. So just use short sentences and no hard words like “denominationalism”–isn’t that about how there have to be differences among us, so people outside the family really KNOW who’s Daddys’ kids? I think thats a GOOD thing, Bill!
So I have this question for you, Bill, and I sure hope it doesn’t hurt your feelings like last time someone asked you a question like this and it seemed like you were ready to cry! Well, you swallowed hard a lot. Anyway, Bill, here it is: Who in God’s name IS your Father?
Good post Shannon.
There is a bit in the Bill Johnson video message where he tells his church that no matter what pressure, opposition or circumstance (family pressure, stress at work, illness, financial difficulty)they find themselves in there will always be enough grace to make righteous choices, he is teaching them that as long as they look to and focus on God there will be strength in every situation – do we all agree with this? The bible says resist the devil and he will free from you and I am an overcomer through him who lives in me but every week I fail, that doesn’t mean that God lied or isn’t powerful. If I read Miriams prophecy about the body of Christ linking together to my church adn a week later we all fell out and the church split that wouldn’t make that prophecy any less true or encouraging for our lives today. Critics didn’t make Todd sin, the sin doesn’t mean Bill Johnson’s words or gifts were powerless. At the end of the day only 2 people are responsible for your walk with God – you and God, not Miriam, not Bill Johnson, not anyone, sure people can encourage and pray and teach and guide but it boils down to you and God and we all know who the only one in that relationship who can let the other down is.
While i agree sin in the church needs to be called out, it also talks about who is to reprimand and deal with the person. Their authority. I don’t know everything that has gone on with Todd Bentley and The Lakeland Revival and i don’t need to, all I know is that Todd’s authorities are handling it. We may not like it or understand the way they are handling it, but we don’t need to. The comments and critisims i see here do not seem to be offering hope, they sound more like they are hoping “God gets them”. We are called to pray for Todd and the people involved in the situation. It sounds like so many assumptions are being made, but our ONLY agenda for this situation is to be prayer. Why do we so badly need to figure out who is to blame? Love covers a multitude of sins, why are we exposing them all over the intenet and acting worse then unbelievers? Scirpture says we will be known for our love one for another. God help us! And worse case scenario, say absolutley everything negative i have read on this page is true? Does that change what we as fellow christians are called to do? (And I’m not saying i think it is, I think very few people actually have a clue about what has really gone on) I have read comments about people saying Todd and fellow Ministers are not repentant. Do we so easily give up? Does God have a time frame for them? David did not repent for a year. Lets give the people involved some time. A family is being ripped apart and people have been hurt. Yet us in our selfishness are demanding answers and casting blame right away. This is not a good atmospere for healing. Todd’s family and people invovled need to time and prayer to deal with what has happened first. The problem comes when we get our eyes on a man. Jesus spoke through a donkey, said he would say to men to depart from Him even though they did signs and wonders in His name. When people come hungry for God, he shows up! He can use anyone or anything! God used unrighteous leaders all the time in the bible. Hannah was accused of being drunk by the priest when she was praying and she still treated the priest with honor and respect. There is a way to honor and respect your authority even if they are in the wrong. David could have called out all the dirty deeds that Saul did to him personally and probably taken the kingdom. A lot of comments i have read are about things not even done to us personally and we are nowhere close to David’s heart about it. God give us your heart for these men and thier families. Can we trust and pray for the authiries invovled with this even if we don’t understand or even agree? God is sovreign and He sees all. Lord I ask that you will bring healing to anyone that is hurt by everything that has happened, help us to keep our eyes on you. I ask that you will bring peace to Shonna exspecially and her children. Show us how to love and give us your heart for this situation. Father i thank you for your forgiveness, grace and mercy to me when i did not deserve it.
I would like to challenge everyone instead of exposing dirty laundry here or blasting people to just leave a prayer for everyone involved here.
Blessings,
Jenny
Jenny – the point is that the ‘authorities’ handling it are as corrupt as Todd, if not worse, and are whitewashing it. They are not authorities either, they are abusive cultish church leaders and false brethren.
YOU have as much right as anyone else to call Todd to account. And with respect, you DO need to ask questions. And you also need to know the real definition of love and what “love covers” means – it is not whitewashing and lying!
“It was my intention to bring a deflection into the mix so that he wouldn’t take all the heat by himself.”
So Bill admits that he wanted to shield Todd … from “taking the heat” … for his evil, new-age, ungodly deeds, words, and doctrine. Hmmmm. Who your friends are says a LOT about you. I betcha my last dollar that if Bentley was REALLY moving in a healing gift, and people were getting REALLY saved, there wouldn’t have been nearly so much “heat”.
Dave, that’s a ridiculous statement….every move of God has always had opposition. To say that there wouldn’t have been so much heat because of a real gift is foolish. There’s always going to be heat for it whether or not the gift is real. It doesn’t prove anything either way.
I am not saying whether his gift is real or not…. Just that the logic you use, is not logic at all. It cannot be an indicator of the genuineness of the gift.
Neither is Todd sinning an indication of whether or not Lakeland is a genuine move of God…you don’t judge the move on the guy up front but by the fruit produced. Many of those who say there were no healings are wrong…I know of many personally. Yes personally.
Jenny, I appreciate your comments. They are the attitude we should take.
Endtimesprophetic…..Your opinion is that those authorities are “abusive, cultish church leaders and false brethren”
It means no more or less than any of the rest of us…but be careful of judgment. I would just say be careful. Better to not speak at all than be incorrect. Maybe you are partially correct, but to say they are “false brethren” is a strong statement as there is a broad range of belief in the body of Christ concerning “non-essentials.” I am not aware of Bill Johnson, Che Ahn, or John Arnott heretically teaching any essential doctrine. If you are let us know…not what you believe is essential but what is defined by the majority of orthodox Christianity.
While one obviously can’t make an emphatic assessment without personally interviewing and studying Mr. Bentley, a more dispassionate “clinical” view of the situation–discarding moral indictments, rhetoric, indignation and reactionarianism–leads me to believe with near-complete certainty that Mr. Bentley is either pathologically psychopathic, or at the very least, malignantly narcissistic (both pathologies are considered by many psychologists to fall along the spectrum of pathological narcissism). To my view, Bentley is almost a textbook case of psychopathy, given both childhood and present evidence. Criticizing things like Bentley’s “theology” or “moral failings” is missing the forest for the trees, in my analysis.
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/psychology/robert_hare/5.html
http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/psychopath.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/bbing/stories/s1158704.htm
JA – but the point is, we are not reaching Todd Bentley but his audience that listen to his theology. That’s the key issue.
Dear Jon:
Miriam as the owner of this site, has “studied to show herself approved” about the FACT that the people behind Todd Bentley are not moving in the Holy Spirit, but in some other demonic spirit.
The Word tells us not to judge hypocritically about sin But it also tells us that “Of those on the outside, God is the Judge; of those on the inside YOU are the judges.” Meaning after decades of spiritual abuse and false prophecy, the Kansas City Boys and the Toronto Blessing and Lakeland have now shown themselves for what they are… FALSE TEACHERS and FALSE PROPHETS…
And since “Ye shall know them by their fruit” — Todd Bentley’s fall is the proof that these are false workers of apostasy. Yes, I mean all of those people who laid hands on Todd at his Coronation ceremony and who now apparently could give one hoot about the scattered and slaughtered sheep of Lakeland…
So typical of wolves, now isn’t it?
Jon,
You completely missed my point. It was : Johnson was trying to save Bentley from “the heat” that TB was taking because of his heresy, lies, and lunacy. That makes a huge statement about Johnson. Let me illustrate :
Let’s say that I go rob a bank, people witness it, and then my pastor comes along and recognizes me as a “man of great character and integrity” in a public ceremony witnessed by millions. He commissions me as an anointed “courier” and says all kinds of great things about me.
By (hypothetically) robbing the bank, I have done something clearly, indefensibly wrong. Nobody can argue with that. But my pastor has done something that has much more far-reaching consequences, by publicly acknowledging me and my behavior. People see that and are misled, especially the young and naive.
THAT is what I was referring to re: Bentley and Johnson. Johnson’s defense of Bentley tells the world that he cares not for righteousness, but only defending his “friends”.
And yes, I will stand by my statement that I think a real man of God would have had far less opposition than Bentley. Past revivals have changed cities, countries, nations even, and many that opposed God’s moving were themselves converted. Opposition? Yes, likely. But the torrent of opposition Bentley experienced was simply an indicator of the number of people and the conviction they experienced that “something is REALLY wrong here”.
If he were doctrinally sound, and adhering to scripture, that opposition would have been absent. The only gift I ever saw was a “gift” of deception. And it was genuine.
Jon, where are the documented healings that were touted? I have not seen ONE. Show me please, but the majority of the fruit of this “move” has been division, disillusionment, and error. People pronounced healed that died, or went home worse. Many that came for healing and were denied prayer. You really should take a clear look at the fruit yourself. It stinks.
Endtimesprophetic (Miriam?),
My post in no way was meant as a criticism of your blog, which I think is very valuable. I apologize that it appeared that way–the “forest for the trees” comment was really just an afterthought, and not the point of my post. You’re right that those who follow Bentley’s “theology” do indeed need to understand why and how it’s false.
I was really thinking of people who already agree that Bentley’s theology is false, who criticize amongst themselves Bentley’s teachings. I guess it’s here where I kind of think, “there’s no real need to dissect a teaching if you know it’s the fabrication of a pathological liar”.
All this being said though: while I do think it’s important to explain the falsehood of these teachings to those tempted to accept them, I think it’s also important to discuss the more “earthly” reality as well. The reality is that psychologists conservatively estimate that one percent of the population is psychopathic (with more liberal estimates going as high as four percent), so it’s important to be fully informed about how to identify them. Tellingly, Dr. Robert Hare (arguably the foremost expert on psychopathy) says that religious leadership is one of the professions that is highly represented by psychopaths.
Again, as I’ve never done an in-depth case study of Bentley, I can only call this a theory. But if I were a gambling man, I’d put down some good money on it.
Bill’s comments have also been upload to YouTube in three sections:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG4g2QMrKMo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPFFTzAaQFU
Re: Hypnotist
No, you will not find anything on the internet that will indicate that he is a christian. Mike Mandel and his affiliates had various organizations including ancient martial arts taught in canada christian college??
Several members of this hypnotic-christian undercover crew became SECURITY detail to TODD BENTLEY. Who/Where they are now? I don’t know…
The dates would be approx. 2003/2004. I saw the hypnotists-christians providing their secret service type security detail to Todd Bentley in TORONTO at a conference he held over a weekend. This is how I believe deception has moved into various ministries. Hynotists pretending people that are born again and are actually hypnotists on a task form the enemy to destroy the church and the body.
I have watched in UTTER DISBELIEF a hypnotist at a revival meeting in toronto annoint the voice of a prophetic singer? I have seen pastors lead a service with the hypnotist allowed to speak/preach and annoint?
Ladies & Gentlemen: I HAVE witnessed annointed/holy ghost/called and powerful people of GOD move under the influence of the World’s Greatest Living Hypnotist here in Canada. YES! It is really hard to believe, I know I still can’t believe it myself. However, please take this to prayer because this is a real thing that has happened and when people are under the influence of hypnosis in a charismatic service it really hard to tell the difference. This FALSE spirit mocks and mimicks the annointing of the Lord. AND BELIEVE IT, it did cross over to TODD BENTLEY MINISTRY.
Interesting that no one has ever heard that this HYPNOTIST is a born again christian??? People who knew him in the church, did not know he was a hypnotist in his job? He is advertised all throughout the world and still practicing today as I write.
world’s greatest living hypnotist becomes a born again christian and involved with ministries that shut down in time to follow?
Let me know your thoughts…
another point I wanted to make…
I do believe that Todd Bentley was operating under the influence of hypnotism and that alot of the hand gestures/body movements are similar to a hypnotist on stage. My previous posts are to give you some of the backgroun information that is hidden/unknown and how I base my understanding of all this.
False teachers have entered as the wolf in sheeps clothing.
The word does say that in the end times EVEN the wisest will be deceived.
I think ministries/leaders and all of us believers don’t want to face the fact that we have been deceived. REVIVAL does not produce the fruit we are seeing … REVIVAL produces a harvest of souls…..not what I am reading and hearing.
Let’s get to work! feed the poor, look after the orphans and widows and set the captive free!!!
I saw the words “adultery” and “affair” several times here, including the blog’s title. If Bentley really did do these things, this blog site needs to produce genuine documentation. Anyone with even a Kindgergaten-level of biblical literacy knows that it’s a big no-no to make accusastions about anybody (all types of people in the O.T. and elders in the N.T.) without the presence of “two or three witnesses.”
All we know is that Bentley filed for seperation, which in Canadian law is the first step to divorce. If he does go through with it, and later re-marries, then by Jesus’ standards he will be in adultery. But the divorce hasn’t taken place yet, it may be averted, and even if it does happen, nobody knows whether or not Bentley will re-marry.
So unless this blogger can produce real documentation for the alleged “adultery” and “affair”, he himself has some serious sin and deception problems of his own.
JWR read the first few pages of this blog. The adultery is admitted by numerous leaders and associates as well as Fresh Fire ministries!
RE the “it’s a big no-no to make accusastions about anybody without the presence of “two or three witnesses” – why don’t you practice what you preach – like here, for example?
I actually know todd a bit, i am from his home city, (lived there)
i’ve babysat his kids, Known his wife, Know his staff.
He did have a struggle, but who doesn’t?
you guys are exsposing him like noah’s younger son. instead of covering him ( i don’t mean denying, protecting his sin)
How would you feel if someone dug up your old past, broke into your brain and accused you of having sexual thoughts about a young girl (just an example)
As much as i have stopped endoring Todd, I will not Curse him.
Dear SK
Thanks for the sentiment, but Todd is not my “friend”. He is someone who proclaimed to be leading a new revival for the End Times in the Holy Spirit.
I could care less about what Todd is thinking about on a sinful level.
What I do care about is what he was teaching. He was listening to false prophets, was not discerning demonic angelic presences and teaching and prophesying lies in the name of Jesus. He was in league with false teachers and false prophets and he was one himself.
His moral failings and sin — during this Lakeland impartation, btw — are just what Jesus told us to look for: “YE SHALL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUIT.”
Teachers and prophets who claim to speak for Jesus have a much bigger burden on them of proof than someone who is our “friend” in church.
Todd claimed to be a Holy God’s mouthpiece and God unveiled the truth about Todd.
So, what is your issue with this?
ACCOUNTABILITY is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY IN LEADERSHIP, MINISTRY and IN REVIVAL TIMES!!
“endtimespropheticwords” responded to my 24 Aug post by saying:
“JWR read the first few pages of this blog. The adultery is admitted by numerous leaders and associates as well as Fresh Fire ministries!
“RE the “it’s a big no-no to make accusastions about anybody without the presence of “two or three witnesses” – why don’t you practice what you preach – like here, for example?”
—————-
My counter-reply to this is that it’s important to think critically and note that Bill Johnson’s statements in this blog never mention the words adultery, affair, or any such thing. Rather, Johnson only uses terms like “major metltdown” and “filing for divorce.” The only instances of “affair” and “adultery” in this blog are in the blogger’s own headline and in his own comments in italics, which are interspersed between the text of Johnson’s comments. This looks like a severe case of “question begging” or “circular reasoning” to me.
A “major metltdown” can mean anything; like a nervouse breakdown. And people get divorced for many other reasons besides infidelity: personality disorders, financial pressures, etc., or just an unwillingness to hang in through the rough times.
For this blogger to assume that it’s all about sex is symptomatic of how morbidly obsessed many evangelicals and fundamentalists are with sex. For him to then take that morbid assumption and transform it into “fact” is liablous.
Hey, maybe there really were affairs; I don’t know. But if so, where’s the documentation?
To endtimespropheticwords webmaster: please disregard my last comment (posted earlier on 27 Aug). I don’t have a lot of time for web browsing, and had only been going on the original info on this particular web page (in which Johnson only mentions “meltdown”, etc.
Later today I found the Bentley updates, and yes it is all documented. Therefore, what I wrote in that post is irrevelent.
well, i’ve thought about what more there is to say. and i’ve determined that regardless of what i write here, people who are reading this already have an opinion on this situation. my words are not likely to change any opinions.
and regardless of whose side you are on, i realize that my job is not to cast judgement on any name mentioned here. my responsibility is to pray. jesus hung out with alot of sinners and was criticized for it. he wanted to bring redemption to all. right now, todd needs restoration. who cares if you like him. jesus wants to bring peace and restoration to all of us when we make big messes. so in that respect, Jesus, I ask you to bring restoration to Todd. Restore his family, restore his heart, and bring him renewed revelation of your love for him.
The greatest commandments are about love, not judgement or any other rules. God is love and so when he shows up, love has to be there. Love is so much a part of his nature. Love does not go away when we mess up, it’s still there. Our job is to become more like God so I want to learn to love people instead of arguing over their mistakes. I’m sure we all have mistakes that could be debated. I’d rather have someone love me in spite of my mistakes.
Bill Johnson says in August 2008: “I was involved in a restoration process to help Todd a couple years ago, in this very area [adultery]. And it was thought to all of us involved that the healing had taken place…”
Contrast this with what he said in 2005/2006 about Bentley -
http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/12/27/another-todd-bentley-affair-its-cover-up-surrounding-lies-what-did-bill-johnson-bobby-conner-paul-keith-davis-denny-cline-do-see-here/