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Christian prophecy for the church and for the nations from a servant of God called to speak God’s word

Pope Benedict XVI places the world in Mary’s hands

Article from here - bold emphasises are mine

“POMPEII, Italy, OCT. 19, 2008 (Zenit.org).- Benedict XVI placed the world in Mary’s hands during his one-day visit to the shrine of Our Lady of the Rosary in Pompeii, near Naples.

The Pope’s leading of the Supplication of the Blessed Virgin of the Rosary, a prayer written by Blessed Bartolo Longo (1841-1926) was one of the high points of this 12th pastoral trip in Italy.

“We implore you to have pity today on the nations that have gone astray, on all Europe, on the whole world, that they might repent and return to your heart,” the text of the prayer reads.

With the words of Bartolo, the Pontiff turned to Mary, saying: “If you will not help us because we are ungrateful and unworthy children of your protection, we will not know to whom to turn.”

In a gesture of filial love, the Pope then offered the Madonna a golden rose.

The Holy Father traveled by helicopter this morning to Pompeii, and was welcomed by 50,000 faithful. This is the third time a Pope has visited the shrine.

Pompeii was destroyed by the lava and ashes from the eruption of Mt. Vesuvius in 79 A.D.

The new Pompeii arose 1,796 years later, when, in 1872, Bartolo Longo, a lawyer and lay Dominican, built a church dedicated to Our Lady of the Rosary.

The shrine contains an image of Mary to which hundreds of miracles and healings are attributed.

In the homily delivered during Holy Mass today, the Pope evoked the figure of Bartolo Longo, who, like St. Paul, had persecuted the Church, “becoming militantly anticlerical and engaging in spiritualist and superstitious practices.”

Longo was a Satanist priest who later repented when he encountered the “true face of God,” the Holy Father said.

“Wherever God comes in this desert, flowers bloom,” said Benedict XVI. “Even Blessed Bartolo Longo, with his personal conversion, bears witness to this spiritual power that transforms man from within and makes him capable of doing great things according to God’s designs.

“This city, which he re-founded is thus a historical demonstration of how God transforms the world: filling man’s heart with charity.”

“Here in Pompeii,” the Pope continued, “it is understood that love for God and love for neighbor are inseparable.

“Here at Mary’s feet, families rediscover or reinforce the joy of love that keeps them united.”

The secret of Pompeii, the Holy Father revealed, is the rosary: “This prayer leads us through Mary to Jesus.”

“The rosary is a contemplative prayer that is accessible to all: great and small, lay people and clerics, cultured and uncultured,” he said. “The rosary is a spiritual weapon in the struggle against evil, against all violence, for peace in hearts, in families, in society and in the world.”

November 1, 2008 - Posted by endtimespropheticwords | Contemplative Prayer, False Prophets and Teachers, Interfaith and Ecumenical, Mary and Maryology, News, Roman Catholicism | , , , , | 21 Comments

21 Comments »

  1. Well meaning i guess, but only Jesus saves. We can pray all day to Mary, but she is dead.

    Comment by Marianne | November 1, 2008

  2. I almost want to laugh… My father and mother were both formerly catholics, so I did not grow up with a good view of catholics. I do have some friend who attend catholic church who have a genuine faith in Christ, but for most in the catholic church, Mary overshadows Jesus and that is nothing but idolatry. I just do not understand how they can jump through that hoop and say it is biblical because it obviously is not. We have one mediator and that is Jesus Christ. God Bless them, I pray for them.

    God Bless ~Amy

    Comment by thewordthatpierces | November 1, 2008

  3. You know, it really really doesn’t matter what the Pope does, my Bible teaches me that I am in My God’s Hands and no will snatch me out of there, not even the Pope.

    Maybe the Lord should chop off one of the Pope’s hands so that it will be more difficult next time he tries to be God?

    Oh! I don’t believe I typed that!!

    God would never do that, would He? Hmmmm:::>

    Psa 50:22 “Mark this, then, you who forget God, lest I tear you apart, and there be none to deliver!
    Psa 50:23 The one who offers thanksgiving as his sacrifice glorifies me; to one who orders his way rightly I will show the salvation of God!”

    Comment by michael | November 1, 2008

  4. I don’t follow this numpty but do appreciate your analyses of the TB circus. Here’s CPW’s latest.
    Thanks. Glenn

    A Lakeland Update
    From C. Peter Wagner
    October 29, 2008

    Dear friends,

    This is an update on the aftermath of the Lakeland Outpouring.

    As most of you know, a day or so after I went to Lakeland and helped align Todd Bentley with Revival Alliance on June 23, the veil of secrecy over a number of serious, hidden sins began to come off. God has now shaken what could be shaken in Todd’s life. On August 12 he announced that he was leaving his wife of nine years, and it had been revealed that he had been directing his attentions toward another woman. This is now history, but many have been asking for an update.

    I have delayed sending you this email until I had an official statement from Todd’s apostolic alignment, John Arnott, Ché Ahn, and Bill Johnson of Revival Alliance.
    Here is their statement, issued October 23, 2008, four months after the alignment:

    PUBLIC STATEMENT ON TODD BENTLEY FROM REVIVAL ALLIANCE

    Dear friends, several years ago, six leadership couples came together formed a relationally based, non-denominational network called Revival Alliance.

    When the Lakeland revival broke out Todd Bentley and the revival meetings were coming under much criticism. At the suggestion of Peter Wagner, three of the members of the Revival Alliance team went to Lakeland because the Alliance as a whole wanted to express support for the Lakeland Outpouring and to commission Todd as a revivalistic evangelist. Having been powerfully touched in the Toronto outpouring, and seeing the opposition that came from leaders in the church because of that movement, we wanted to stand with Todd and deflect some of the personal assaults that were coming against him. Many of the attacks were coming from well-respected Christian leaders, people that we still hold in high esteem. Yet the mandate from the Lord was clear. And we stood with Todd and the Fresh Fire Ministries team to both endorse and support this move of God.

    Rory and Wendy Alec of God TV also took tremendous risk in airing the revival prime time and broadcasting it to over 200 nations around the world. Their heart is to capture and release the move of God, no matter where it happens, or who God uses as His instrument. This unparalleled media attention gave unusual advertisement for the outpouring. But it also put their whole team in an unusual, high-level position of receiving both praise and criticism.

    The impact of the Lakeland Outpouring has been amazing, and it still continues. The record of conversions and miracles of healing is extraordinarily great in number. And the spreading of the revival to nation after nation has also been very significant. The God TV broadcast stirred up the hunger in people from around the world to go to Lakeland and receive from God, but then bring it home to their local churches. Impartation seems to be one of the unusual markers of a genuine move of God. Revival fires began to spread around the world as a result of the impartation received at Lakeland. But as great as the fruit has been, so have the devastation and fallout from Todd’s personal failure.

    While there must be no toleration or whitewashing of sin, there must also be no allowances for ungodly judgments in the name of Jesus. Hatred often masquerades as a passion for holiness. And while the church has had its share of tragic failures of leaders in recent days and equally tragic reactions, we must get this one right. It is possible to promote holiness and accountability in the spirit of grace.

    The quickness to condemn and abandon a fallen comrade has caused us as much concern as has the actual sin of our friend. Some want to humiliate and expose Todd before the world. And then there are others who want to point to the obvious anointing on Todd’s life as the sign of God’s approval of Todd’s behavior. Neither is acceptable to us. There must be deep repentance and thorough restoration.

    The restoration process must be firm but loving, while holding to the Kingdom standards of both holiness and grace. The initial goal is not to get Todd preaching again. It is to get him healed from the issues of the heart that have brought devastation to his family, and such shame and failure to him. His gift will always function when given an opportunity. We just want it to come from a place of personal victory and triumph this next time.

    Since the announcement of Todd’s leaving his wife, Revival Alliance has been working to help restore our fallen brother. Sin is disastrous on any level, but it is well known that “to whom much is given, much is required.” Gross sin from someone on Todd’s level of influence is devastating. Even so, God is ready to heal and restore.

    Todd recently spent three days in Redding, California, with Bill Johnson dealing with the issues of his personal life. Following that, he went to Morningstar Ministries in Charlotte, North Carolina, to be with Rick Joyner for the same reason. Rick, along with the Morningstar leadership team, has offered to help in his restoration. With great confidence, Revival Alliance recommends this as the appropriate process for Todd’s healing and restoration. Todd will be moving to Morningstar Ministries to live for a season. Rick Joyner’s wisdom, along with the strength of the Morningstar community of believers, will be a great support to Todd as he deals with the heart issues that brought about his failures. A council of three has also been formed to give oversight to the restoration process. Rick Joyner, Jack Deere, and Bill Johnson will give oversight as needed.

    We appreciate the prayers and support of countless numbers of believers who have continued to support Fresh Fire Ministries. We also appreciate the prayer support of so many for the Revival Alliance. We are also very thankful for Rick Joyner and his whole team that will be working to bring about a complete healing to our friend, Todd Bentley.

    It should also be noted that effort is being made to ensure that Shonnah (Todd’s wife) and children are also cared for and given opportunity to receive ministry and help. As you may imagine, they have suffered great hurt from this failure.

    There are many in Fresh Fire Ministries who also need help. Efforts are being made to serve them as best as possible. John Arnott recently invited the Fresh Fire Ministries associates to Toronto for their Signs and Wonders Conference to receive personal ministry and encouragement. These kinds of efforts will continue.

    Bill Johnson, John Arnott, and Rick Joyner have each spent time with the Fresh Fire Ministries board, and will continue to assist them as needed through this tragic season.

    Fresh Fire Ministries will continue their crusades and conference schedule around the world. They are a group of ministers with much integrity and a great heart for the lost. Pray for them as they maneuver through the challenging season ahead, while serving the church at large.

    We are thankful for the honor of being involved in this crisis.

    On behalf of Revival Alliance: John Arnott, Ché Ahn, and Bill Johnson
    Thursday, October 23, 2008

    Apostolic Protocol

    The Todd Bentley situation affords us a good contemporary case study in the proper application of agreed-upon apostolic protocol. Before an international TV audience, Todd affirmed that he desired to be apostolically aligned with Revival Alliance, and then received their apostolic commissioning as a revivalistic evangelist. Almost immediately, the shifting that this alignment produced in the invisible world caused Todd’s hidden personal life to begin to unravel until he left the Lakeland Outpouring in early August. Host apostle, Stephen Strader, continued services in Ignited Church until he finally closed it in October.

    The Revival Alliance took the first steps toward dealing with Todd’s discipline and possible restoration. However, Rick Joyner of Morningstar Ministries in Ft. Mill, South Carolina, a friend of Todd’s, offered his services to help in the process. Revival Alliance, then, decided to outsource the long-term hands-on restoration to Rick. Rick brought his friend, Jack Deere onto his team, and Bill Johnson was added to maintain a link with Revival Alliance.

    After reading the Revival Alliance statement above, some have asked not only who is now in charge of the restoration (Rick Joyner authorized by Revival Alliance), but also who would make the official announcement to the body of Christ if and when the restoration is complete and give Todd clearance to resume public ministry? The answer to this question revolves around responsible apostolic protocol, and the proper answer is that only Revival Alliance would be authorized to make such an announcement.

    How would I reach that conclusion? Later on, I will explain the Lakeland Outpouring Apostolic Team, but first let me introduce an official statement on apostolic protocol dealing with situations such as Todd Bentley’s issued by the group in October:

    Statement from the Lakeland Outpouring Apostolic Team

    Current issue: Paul Cain and his appearance on the platform of the Lakeland Outpouring I.

    The background. At one point rather early in Lakeland Outpouring I, prophet Paul Cain was invited to appear on the platform. A few months before the Outpouring began he had prophesied publicly that such an outpouring would break out in Lakeland, and Todd Bentley felt it would be appropriate to recognize Cain on the platform and let the audience know about his accurate prophecy. While Cain was there, he took the opportunity to announce, among other things, that he had been living a chaste life and that rumors about him were not true.

    This event drew criticism from many observers who knew something of Paul Cain’s recent experiences. It turned out that he had been living a secret life which involved problems with drunkenness and homosexuality. Three Christian leaders who had been long-time friends and colleagues of Cain, namely Rick Joyner, Mike Bickle, and Jack Deere, attempted to bring correction and restoration privately, but to little avail. Consequently, they decided that, following the precepts of Matthew 18, they had come to the place where they needed to announce Cain’s moral turpitude to the church at large with the hope that this public reprimand would speed the process of his restoration. Cain’s response was to place himself under the accountability of other, self-chosen, Christian leaders who after a period of time announced that his restoration had been completed and that he was free to return to public ministry. This was an obvious violation of apostolic protocol. The correct apostolic protocol would have been for the three who first blew the whistle publicly to have been involved directly in any announcement to the body of Christ that Cain’s restoration had been complete. Not only were the three not involved, but they felt that the timing for such an announcement had been premature.

    Bentley knew something of this situation because he reportedly later commented that he had thought (wrongly!) that he had first cleared his intentions of inviting Cain to the platform with Rick Joyner. The problem had become more complicated with Cain’s public confession of having lived a chaste life, apparently denying that he ever had been involved in homosexuality. His later explanation that he really meant that he had been chaste only since his “restoration” was not sufficient to change the impression left with the huge international television audience who heard his first words. Our conclusion is that inviting Cain on the platform and allowing him to have the microphone was an unfortunate mistake on the part of Bentley since it was an intended or unintended violation of apostolic protocol.

    The principle. What can we learn from this? The principle is that the prescribed restoration of a fallen leader should be undertaken only by or under the direct supervision of the apostle or apostolic group (whether or not the term “apostle” is used) with which the fallen leader has previously aligned. The practice of the leader, himself or herself, slipping out from under a recognized accountability structure in order to select what would inevitably be a more lenient person or group of persons should be regarded by the body of Christ as unacceptable behavior. The proper apostolic protocol should be for those involved in the initial apostolic alignment, and those people only, to make any public announcement on the progress of the restoration or that the restoration has been completed and that the restored leader be allowed once again to resume public ministry.

    As a footnote, it should be recorded that in recent years Paul Cain has not been the only high-profile leader to attempt this evasion of accountability. Others have taken similar erroneous pathways, and our opinion is that there should be a general consensus in the church that such behavior will not be repeated or tolerated in the future.

    Lakeland Outpouring Apostolic Team
    October 10, 2008

    In light of the above statement it seems clear that public reports of the progress or successful termination of Todd Bentley’s restoration be made only with the explicit approval of Revival Alliance. Any attempt to circumvent this apostolic protocol (as was done in the case of Paul Cain) should not be regarded as acceptable to the body of Christ. Especially those of us in the charismatically-inclined evangelical stream feel deep embarrassment over a number of recent cases that have taken this deviant route.

    The Lakeland Outpouring Apostolic Team

    As I have told you in other emails, after I moderated the meeting at which Todd Bentley was aligned and commissioned, I received over three thousand emails. Many of them expressed dismay and concern over issues that had surfaced during the Outpouring itself and during the commissioning. I carefully cataloged these and simultaneously pulled together a group of apostles which I called the Lakeland Outpouring Apostolic Team. The team included Stephen Strader, Steve Strang, David Cannistraci, Ché Ahn, Lee Grady, Joe Askins, Jeff Beacham, Chuck Pierce, and John Arnott besides myself. One of the first things we did was to analyze the issues raised and end up with a list of 24 important concerns, each of which we would discuss and attempt to issue a public statement to the body of Christ.

    We began our work and issued the statement above on apostolic protocol for the Paul Cain case, reducing the list to 23.

    Meanwhile, God began speaking to Dutch Sheets, whom many of you know is my pastor at Freedom Church here in Colorado Springs, and who has been recognized as an apostle to our nation. Dutch felt that God was giving him an assignment to deal with many of the issues that I had on my list, and others as well, from a proactive, rather than a reactive posture as I had been doing.

    After consulting with John Kilpatrick, Dutch approached me with the possibility of making some changes. I gladly received his suggestions and, frankly, I was greatly relieved. While I chaired Todd’s alignment ceremony in obedience to a direct word from God, I did not have the same clear assignment from God to deal with the issues. I had organized the Lakeland Outpouring Apostolic Team only because I felt it was my duty. Dutch now has a passion for the task, while I only had a sense of responsibility. The upshot is that I have now disbanded the Lakeland Outpouring Apostolic Team and passed the torch to Dutch Sheets, who will form a similar group. One condition for Dutch’s action was that I would agree to be a member of the new group, which I did. I also think that a proactive stance will be much more profitable for the body of Christ long term than my reactive approach, dealing specifically with problems arising from the Lakeland Outpouring which no longer exists.

    Conclusion

    That is my update for now, and probably the last one I will issue on the subject of Lakeland. Criticisms of what I have done have been severe, but affirmations have outnumbered them maybe one hundred to one. Only a few have been so upset that they have severed relations with me, and I deeply regret this. But I have no regrets over what I have done in the last four months, although there are undoubtedly a few things that I could have done better.

    Let’s move on to new horizons for the kingdom of God!

    Blessings,
    Peter

    Comment by Glenn Pennington | November 1, 2008

  5. I place my life in the hands of Jesus Christ..

    Comment by Lela | November 1, 2008

  6. Modern Day MONEY CHANGERS

    By David Ravenhill Nov.20, 2005

    I’m convinced that the carnal, cunning, conniving, crooked crooks that Jesus drove out of the Temple are still among us today. These modern day moneychangers are forever devising new and deceptive doctrines to defraud God’s people out of His/their money. These masters of deceit have now set up their changing tables throughout the Christian television industry.

    I’m absolutely certain that if Jesus returned today He would walk into the vast majority of these television studios and overthrow the cameras, lights, monitors, and soundboards. He would unplug the microphones and scatter the makeup colors around as He went about destroying the stages and backdrops.

    Several years ago now, a nationally known prophetic voice was told by the Lord, “I’m sick and tired of the prosperity message”. If that was true then, how much more today. As far back as 1986, the top seven media evangelists took in over 750 million dollars. Now with the increased manipulation of ’seed faith teaching’ that amount has no doubt been dwarfed by comparison.

    Only a few days ago I was appalled as I watched and listened as Pastor “So & So” zealously twisted and distorted the Scriptures to his own advantage. This ‘brother’ dared to distort the most sacred truth of all Scripture. He used The Day Of Atonement, that day when Jesus Christ the Lamb of God shed His blood for the sins of the world, to teach that how we give financially determines how God will respond to us throughout the coming year. My blood boiled as I listened. This ‘brother’ had finally crossed the line and was now on the verge of blaspheming the atoning work of our blessed Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, not to mention lining his own pockets with the proceeds. He might as well have been selling indulgences by inferring that God’s favor toward us was based on our giving rather than God’s unmerited grace and forgiveness through the gift of His Son. What made matters worse was that this same ‘charlatan’ was the guest of one of the nation’s best known charismatic personalities. Within a day or so he was teaching the same message on a local Christian telethon. Neither the evangelist nor the network sought to correct his aberrant teaching – after all, the show must go on and that takes money, so how you raise it doesn’t seem to matter anymore.

    Why does almost every single Christian program have to end with some type of ’seed faith teaching’? If these men and women of faith really believed what they taught, they would practice what they preach and teach; after all what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Imagine how shocked you would be if your favorite televangelist and covenant partner were to send you a check in their next mailing for the amount of $1,000.00 with a personal note telling you he/she just wanted to sow into your life. Perhaps then I could believe that these men/women really believe and practice what they teach. Not only that, but they would never have to appeal for money again as God’s return to them would result in a hundredfold increase. At least that’s what they would have us to believe.

    On a recent ministry trip to the Northwest, I was told by a pastor friend that his church had received a call from a well known and anointed teacher in the Body of Christ. The caller was asking them for a contribution towards the purchase of a jet for their ministry. What a far cry from what the Apostle Paul taught when he prefaced his teaching on ’sowing and reaping’ with these words; ” For this is not for the ease of others and for your affliction, but by way of equality.” (II Cor. 8:13-14)

    Many pastors measure their success in terms of numbers -the larger the church the more successful their ministry. Itinerant ministries, not being able to brag about size, seem to fall for the notion that having one’s own jet is how success is determined. (Once it was the Rolex watch). By the way, if you love and appreciate this fine teacher, pray that he won’t get the desires of his heart – it will only lead to the leanness of his soul.

    This is one man’s attempt to appeal to the Body of Christ. Stop pandering to these moneychangers. These men and women live like kings while spending your money to buy mansions and jets for themselves. They dine in the finest restaurants, wear the latest designer fashions and then have the audacity to tell you that you can live the same way as long as you give to their ministry.

    I opened my Bible the other day to Zechariah’s wonderful prophecy concerning the first coming of Jesus, our great and glorious King. Listen to his words; ‘Behold your King is coming to you; He is just and endowed with salvation, humble, and mounted on a donkey, even on a colt the foal of a donkey.’( Zechariah 9:9 ) What a far cry from the televangelist who comes high and mighty and traveling on his own jet!

    If you are as sick and tired as I am about this waste of God’s money, then for heaven’s sake STOP SUPPORTING THESE PEOPLE. Give your money to your local church or other servant ministries. There are tens of thousands of needy missionaries who barely have enough support to keep themselves alive. They are laboring long and hard under some of the most difficult and trying conditions. They would rejoice at the thought of an extra $10-30 dollars a month support. These are the real heroes of whom the world is not worthy. Help put these MONEY LOVING TELEVANGELISTS OUT OF BUSINESS and save another MISSIONARY FROM EXTINCTION. Together we can make it happen.

    Comment by brad | November 1, 2008

  7. I’m all for eliminating the middle man and ‘Come bodly to the throne of grace’

    Comment by Canadanorth | November 1, 2008

  8. ..what he did,
    was in fact honouring the deity Shiva.
    Shiva ( the Destroyer; or, the maker of a new world from the ashes of the old ) is also the main-deity of the LHC CERN
    - the stargate.
    Please notice that ‘pompei ‘( ashes ) and ‘Mary ‘ ( Satan ) are the catholic equivient of Shiva.
    And since whatever the pope does, has gigantic symbolic meaning, he placed his ‘church ‘ ( and so, 1,5 BILLION believers ) to honour Appolyon.

    It s just a matter of time, before the Abyss opens up.

    Comment by loneman | November 1, 2008

  9. someone please tell the pope that mary is dead,in heaven i believe but she died like everyone other person that it is appointed to.

    Comment by John C. | November 3, 2008

  10. TRAGEDY HAS STALKED ORAL ROBERTS LIFE EVEN THOUGH HE SAYS GOD IS A GOOD GOD AND IS BIGGER THAN THE DEVIL?

    MAYBE BECAUSE ORAL ROBERTS WAS AND IS A CLASSICAL MONEY CHANGER?

    TULSA, Okla. (AP) – Evelyn Roberts, the wife of evangelist Oral Roberts, died Wednesday in a California hospital after suffering a head injury during a fall. She was 88. Evelyn Roberts died a day after she fell in the parking lot of a dentist’s office, striking her head on the pavement and causing massive internal bleeding, said Jeremy Burton, a spokesman for Tulsa-based Oral Roberts University. She fell into a coma a short time later. May 4, 2005
    PS 78:49 He cast on them the fierceness of His anger, Wrath, indignation, and trouble, By sending angels of destruction among them.
    PS 91:11 For He shall give His angels charge over you, To keep you in all your ways.

    Psalm 91 is a favorite of Word of Faith people as well as Oral Roberts – So I was surprised at how Evelyn Roberts died.

    Oral Roberts elder son, Ronald D. Roberts, 37, also died a violent death but at a young age

    Oral Roberts’ son found dead in car

    By Mike Kimbrell
    6/10/1982
    Ronald D. Roberts, elder son of Oral and Evelyn Roberts, was found dead Wednesday, the victim of an apparently self-inflicted gunshot wound.

    Roberts, 37, died from a single .25-caliber gunshot wound to the heart, Osage County Sheriff George Wayman said.

    A passer-by found the Tulsa evangelist’s son slumped in his car, parked on an Osage County road about 15 miles northwest of Tulsa.

    Wayman said the bullet wound that killed Roberts appeared to be self-inflicted. He said no note or letter was discovered with the body, but “tow or three” notes were found in Roberts’ apartment at 4309 S. Owasso Ave.

    Ronald Roberts was arrested in September after police accused him of obtaining a controlled drug with forged prescriptions. Three felony charges filed against him accused him of obtaining 500 tablets of Tussionex, a cough suppressant, over a three-week period with forged prescriptions.

    He later pleaded guilty to one charge and received a one-year deferred sentence on the condition he undergo counseling at a Tulsa drug treatment center, and submit to medical tests to prove he no longer was taking Tussionex.

    Roberts, who largely divorced himself from his father’s evangelical work, was best-known in Tulsa as an antique dealer. He specialized in Chinese porcelain.

    Roberts was married to Carol Lou Croskery in 1966 but the couple reportedly was separated. He had taken her name and was listed in the telephone directory as Ron Croskery-Roberts. The couple had two children, Rachel, 11 and Damon, 7.

    He had a bachelor’s degree in French and a master’s degree in linguistics. He completed work for his doctorate in linguistics at the University of Southern California and spoke five languages.

    http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleid=20080326_222_63032

    What were the details of Richard and Patti Roberts divorce?
    In: Celebrity Relationships

    Basically Patti saw that the ministry was consuming Richard and he was being a clone of Oral. She say the error of seed faith and questioned many of their fund raising practices. while Richard wanted the divorce as much as Patti, the ministry forced her into the position of filing. Just a sad end to a marriage

    Patti Roberts, Richard’s First Wife Exposes Heresy of Richard and Oral.
    http://hottubreligion.wordpress.com/2007/10/20/patti-robertsrichards-first-wife-exposes-heresy-of-richard-and-oral/

    Before Richard married Lindsey,he was married to Patti. He and Patti had two daughters.After Richard divorced Patti, with Oral’s approval, Patti wrote a book,”Ashes to Gold.”In this book,Patti Roberts compares the “seed faith”tactic of former father-in-law Oral Roberts to Johann Tetzel’s practice of selling indulgences. She points out that she had a “very difficult time distinguishing between the selling of indulgences and the concept of seed-faith inflated to the degree to which we had inflated it.
    One distinction Patti did observe was that Oral was more subtle than Tetzel.Rather than offering salvation in exchange for money, Oral appealed to such basic instincts as fear and greed.

    Hank Hanegraaff in his book,”Christianity in Crisis”exposes the manipulative techniques of Richard Roberts.When Oral told the world that unless he raised millions of dollars God was going to call him home,Richard took pen in hand to warn of his father’s impending doom. Without “the additional $4,500,000,”explains Richard, ”God will not extend Dad’s life.” He then pleads,”Partner, we cannot let this man of God die. There is no reason for him to die.”And this is no idle threat, Richard claims. As he puts it, ”When he (Oral) says God speaks to him,he’s not bluffing.”And just in case someone should doubt or suspect his motives,Richard offers this stirring assurance:”I feel totally called by God to do this….I’m writing to you as an anointed servant of God-doing what God has called me to do.”
    After several pages Richard finally gets to the seed-faith solution. Take the enclosed birthday card,slip in a seed-faith gift “check,”and then RUSH IT TO ME TODAY.”

    By the end of the letter, Richard Roberts had done virtually everything to assure his partners that this was a deal they couldn’t afford to pass up. Send your seed-faith gift and Richard will be proud of you. Oral will pray for you, and God will prosper you.

    “Without the additional four and one half million dollars, explains Richard,God will not extend Dad’s life.”He then pleads,” Partner,we cannot let this man of God die. There is no reason for him to die.” ROBERTS’ PERSONAL FINANCES

    Harrell writes:
    “Roberts’ two California homes, partly for security reasons, were not much discussed by the ministry. Oral also remained sensitive about press criticism of his lifestyle. His house in Palm Springs, purchased for $285,000 and financed by a Tulsa bank, was his only privately owned home. In 1982 ORU endowment funds were used to purchase a $2,400,000 house in a high-security development in Beverly Hills. Considered a potentially profitable investment, the house served as Oral’s West Coast office and residence.” (p. 355)

    “Oral’s homes in California inevitably kept alive the old questions about his personal wealth and lifestyle. While probably not as probing as the press had been fifteen years earlier, reporters still took a keen interest in Oral’s financial affairs. In 1981, the Associated Press published Roberts’ personal income figures for the preceding five years–ranging from $70,000 in 1976 to $178,000 in 1978.

    “In addition to his healthy income, derived mostly from book royalties, Oral continued to enjoy generous expense accounts: `The Robertses wear expensive clothes and jewelry and travel in a company-owned eight-passenger fanjet.’

    Patti Roberts’ book [following her divorce from Oral's son, Robert] and an earlier expose written by Jerry Sholes, renewed curiosity about the family’s financial affairs, although Patti confessed that her own `extravagance’ while she was Richard’s wife had `blunted’ her protest.

    Tax records indicate that Oral’s partners donated in excess of $38,000,000 in the fiscal year 1977-78, “surpassing every other religious association in the nation.” (p. 389)

    In 1979 a book was published by Jerry Sholes, a former employee of Oral Robert ministries, which detailed deep deception and hypocrisy:

    “Here is a portrait of the real Oral Roberts, the man not too many of his admirers know. He dresses in Brioni suits that cost $500 to $1000; walks in $100 shoes; lives in a $250,000 house in Tulsa and has a million dollar home in Palm Springs; wears diamond rings and solid gold bracelets employees `airbrush’ out of his publicity photos; drives $25,000 automobiles which are replaced every 6 months; flies around the country in a $2 million fanjet falcon; has membership, as does his son Richard, in `the most prestigious and elite country club in Tulsa,’ the Southern Hills (the membership fee alone was $18,000 for each, with $130 monthly dues) and in `the ultra-posh Thunderbird Country Club in Rancho Mirage, California’ (both father and son joined when memberships were $20,000 each–they are now $25,000); and plays games of financial hanky-panky that have made him and his family members independently wealthy (millionaires) for life. (When his daughter and son-in-law were killed, they left a $10 million estate!)” (Evangelist R.L. Sumner’s review of Give Me that Prime- time Religion by Jerry Sholes)

    “By the mid-1980s, Oral Roberts had come to be the chief executive officer of an organization that employed about 2,300 people and did an annual business of about 110 million dollars, about 60 percent of which was raised through contributions.” (p. 485)

    ROBERTS AND THE FULL GOSPEL BUSINESS MEN INTERNATIONAL

    Harrell says that: “The Full Gospel Business Men’s Fellowship International proved to be an extraordinarily effective tool for spreading the Pentecostal message to the American middle class. By 1975 it had 1,650 chapters, in every state and in fifty-two foreign countries … But the relationship between Oral Roberts and the FGBMFI remained constant–he was the organization’s high priest and most coveted friend. The members of the fellowship were probably the most important reservoir of funds in the building of Oral Roberts University; Shakarian and Roberts never faltered in their belief that each was specially raised up to spread the baptism and the Holy Spirit to the wider world.” (pp. 288,289)

    The Full Gospel Business Men’s Fellowship also helped to finance the ultramodern Oral Roberts University in Tulsa in 1965 and sowed the seeds for the ‘prosperity gospel’ that emerged in 1970’s featuring some of the early ‘faith preachers’ such as Kenneth Hagain Sr. and Kenneth Copeland at its conventions.

    BUT FOR ALL PURPOSES FULL GOSPEL BUSINESS MEN INTERNATIONAL IS A SHELL OF WHAT IT USED TO BE ESPECIALLY AFTER DEMOS SHAKARIAN WAS OUSTED AS PRESIDENT BUT BROUGHT IN BY THE OLD GUARD IN 1980’S

    TRAGEDY STALKS ROBERTS LIFE

    The last two decades have been marked by tragedy in the Roberts family. His daughter Rebecca and her husband Marshall Nash were killed in an airplane crash in 1977. His son Richard and daughter-in-law Patti, who were being groomed to take over the ministry, were divorced in 1979. Three years later, his rebellious older son Ronnie committed suicide. And last year [1984], his 10th grandchild–the son of Richard and his second wife Lindsay and the only heir to be named after him–died two days after birth.

    Harrell describes the death of the grandchild:
    “Within a few hours after his birth, doctors discovered the child was having difficulty breathing. The news, Evelyn recalled, `just tore Oral to pieces.’ For over thirty hours, while doctors fought to save the baby, Oral, Richard, and others prayed. Lindsay was wheeled up to the baby’s side to pray; Kenneth Hagin and his wife, and other ministers, came to pray for healing. When Richard Oral finally died, on January 19, it `devastated Oral.’ He called it the worst tragedy of his scarred life. `I think’ Evelyn reflected, `because he felt there was so much healing power in that room that they could have healed a thousand people … But he said there was something in that baby and he got it as far as the head and it would not leave … Some obstacle would not leave. It was stubborn.’

    “The family once again faced misfortune bravely, searching for meaning in the death. They immediately announced the addition of an obstetrics suite in the City of Faith Medical Center in memory of Richard Oral Roberts.” (p. 347, 348)

    Comment by brad | November 4, 2008

  11. Anybody with brains and the real Holy Spirit knows that Peter Wagner, John Arnott, Che Ahe, Bill Johnson, Rick Joyner, and Dutch Sheets are not only deceived but are deceivers. Yes they are demonized by believing lies from Satan himself and as a result they have not truth in themselves but are liars!

    The Word of God has answers to every problem that man faces including evil men do not understand justice, but those who seek the LORD understand all. True wisdom, discernment and knowledge comes from God and the other lies comes from Satan who “does not stand in the truth” and that “there is no truth in him” (John 8:44). The Bible says:

    James 3:13-17 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom. But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy.

    False prophecies, self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing that we see in these Third Wave fools comes with the wisdom that is earthly, sensual, demonic. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy.

    Unfortunately for these fools and hypocrites, Satan is the master of deception. From the time of his fall from heaven until now, has deceived many. He convinced one third of the heavenly hosts that he could rise up and be like God. Like most liars, he began to believe his own lie. He told himself that he had the power to overthrow God and His Kingdom and make it his own. His lie was so convincing that one third of all the created heavenly beings united with him and attempted to overthrow God and his Kingdom. They attempted to place Satan on a throne in heaven. However, when the battle was over, Satan and one third of the angels were cast out of heaven. Even though they believed they could defeat God as Satan had told them, they still lost the battle.

    Just believing a lie is true and acting on the lie as if it were the truth, does not make it true. The angels acted on what they thought was truth, but they were still cast out of heaven. Yes, acting on a lie is deadly.

    Those who act on lies from Satan disguised in beauty and the appearance of truth and believe that the lie is truth are destroyed by it. And many Christians have been destroyed by not knowing the word of God and let it be an active part of them through daily study and mediation, and hearing God’s word’s word. As a result everything they did from the time they believed the lie until the time they discovered the truth was in vain. Yes, the only things that count are the things they do that are based on truth. God’s word is true:

    John 10:10 “The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.

    1 John 2:26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. 2:27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

    Comment by brad | November 4, 2008

  12. Oh it’s so sad that you all think the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon from the book of Revelation, without realising that in fact the Catholic Church is the only truly and fully bible-based church. Jesus only established one church and this is it.
    Pope Benedict isn’t just declaring that we are in Our Lady’s hands because of a whim, it is because of over 20 centuries of teaching that we Catholics have access to. Centuries of teaching that is systematically rejected by Protestants, thus your churches are full of errors.
    The entire world has been consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for over 50 years and in a few years you will see the fruit of that consecration with the Reign of Jesus Christ through His Blessed Mother, who is not dead but alive and well in Heaven.
    Honestly, where did you lot get your dodgy teachings from. Surely you believe in the commandment to ‘honour your Father AND your Mother’. And surely you agree with Christ’s words from the cross ‘Son, behold your Mother’. And surely you don’t think those words were just aimed at St John? Now that would be daft, imagine John writing those words just because they applied to him. Anybody who understands the Orthodox Jewish roots of Christianity would understand the significance of those words.
    But then, those reading this probably don’t understand those words, would reject those words if they did understand them, and thus will never come to a full knowledge of the truth in this life.
    How sad.

    Comment by Derek Williams | November 5, 2008

  13. Thank you Brad: We are the product of the marketing/advertising machine since the travelling medicine shows. We are all Rubes because deep down we want to believe that what is being peddled to us is genuine. I can state as fact that the anti wrinkle cream I spent my hard earned money on didn’t work but so what!! I was tired of the old wrinkle cream and who knows this one might change my whole life (It said so on the jar). The new improved Christian walk will make you rich and beautiful, radiating health and vitality. You will be the focus of all when you enter the room, people will instantly know you are a successful somebody with great power at your finger tips. Your wish is Heaven’s command. All this and much more can be yours for a years wages (a ridiculous sum) in light of the return. So all you Christians who are tired of your old, boring walk with God step up to the supernatual display counter. We take cash and major credit cards.

    Comment by Canadanorth | November 5, 2008

  14. Well, all I can say … is I hope she doesn’t get nervous and drop it !

    Comment by Dave | November 6, 2008

  15. Happy to know that He follows John Paul 2….thanks…nice post

    Comment by Georgy | November 6, 2008

  16. This message is to Derek Williams. Where does it say in GOD’S WORD that Mary is omniscient? ONLY God is! Therefore, Mary cannot hear the prayers of whomever is “praying” to her because she is not EVERYWHERE AT ONCE!. Furthermore, JESUS IS OUR INTERCESSOR AND DOESN’T NEED ANY HELP! YOU DO NOT NEED TO GO THROUGH MARY OR ANYONE TO GET TO JESUS. WE ARE TOLD TO COME BOLDY TO THE THRONE OF GRACE, NOT TO MARY. JESUS IS THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE, NO ONE GETS TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH HIM! Mary is dead like everyone else and cannot hear you. (btw, Mary did not die a virgin, she had other children)

    Comment by Sila | November 11, 2008

  17. Well said Sila,

    If Mary WAS alive today, (which of course she isn’t)and reading all this stuff, she would shout with a loud voice, “STOP WORSHIPPING ME YOU FOOLISH EARTHLINGS AND FALL ON YOUR KNEES BEFORE MY SON JESUS, FOR HE ALONE IS WORTHY.”

    Comment by Sylvia | November 12, 2008

  18. Well said Sila,
    The bible says the dead know nothing, it’s silly to place anything in there hands, they are dead. Christ says that death is sleep and that the dead will awaken at the resurection, the people that can here your prayers is God the Father, Jesus Christ and The Holy Spirit. The Catholic church throughout history has changed what the church should be, and made it into an idolatary, blasphamous institution. Christ is the only church. Why not place the world in Christs hands, I’m sure he is more capble than Mary. I honnor Mary for her role, but she is not worthy of worship, praise or prayers, only God. Popes throughout hystory have been falsly teaching that they have the power to forgive sin, through confession. The Bible is pretty clear only God forgives sin. And only through faith in Christ are we forgiven, not through hail marys or anything else. I wouldn’t worry about the pope exercising power he thinks he has in a useless way giving mory praise to the Virgin Mary than Christ, they’ve been doing it for a while, and not many people seem to notice that so much of it is blasphomy or idolatry. God knows what to do and he will come in all His glory and wipe out all the blasphomers and idolators. Glory to God. Don’t forget to read and understand your end times prophecy. Daniel, Ezekiel, THes, Rev, lot’s to keep our eyes open for.

    Comment by Krystal | November 15, 2008

  19. I grew up protestant and had a really hard time with the whole Mary idea… I said and believed in all the things you have all posted. Then I married a Catholic and after my children were baptized I decided to really study religion before choosing to send them to Catholic faith formation or to ELCA classes once they were school aged. I really set out to prove my husband wrong about the Catholic faith!! However the surprise was on me as I really read Scripture, expecially the Gospel of John as I came to realize that the Catholic Church is the only TRUE Church that truly worships Christ. Even the devil BELIEVES in Christ but the devil screwed up when he chose not to OBEY Christ. Remember in the wedding at Cana story – Mary told the disciples to DO WHATEVER MY SON TELLS YOU TO. So I will honor – NOT WORSHIP, but honor and respect Mary and do whatever Jesus tells me to. Jesus also says in John that we must have His body and blood and so the Eucharist is the saving sacrament that leads us closer to HIM. If you die and go to heaven and Jesus says, Hello, so glad you could make it, let me introduce you to my Mother… are you going to say no, I can’t she’s dead?? No, I will never worship Mary, but I will honor what she istructed us to do and hopefully make her proud of me. I could go on and on, but you get my point. May God bless all who read this and may you find peace.

    Comment by DeVuono | November 18, 2008

  20. When, after the resurection and I am taken to heaven, I meet Jesus and he says hello Krystal I’m so glad you could make it meet my mother, I will embrace them both and thank her for being the woman she was worthy to have Him. I can’t pray to her though and I can’t make statues of her to pray to because that goes against the second comandment which is that we should not worship graven images. In the ten commandments I’ve seen in Catholic churches, homes and Catichism books are always missing that commandment. I don’t think Catholics are bad people, just that the Church as an institution and government has been used like all the others by satan to lead Gods people astray. If it were the only true church truely worshiping Christ than why did it change the sabbath to sunday, the day of the sun, and why have they taught in the past at least that Hell is eternal, it is not it’s one destruction and it’s over. Why does the pope have the power to forgive sin? Christ is the only medeator. Still not trying to offend, just don’t understand how it is the only true church, that’s all. If there are falsehoods found in anything than it is not the TRUTH. Even if it’s mixed in with alot of truth. However, I do know that God uses all things for his own good and purpose, and if that’s what leads you to Christ than that’s fine. I just urge all to never stop seaking Christ. Always be on the look out and never put a mans institution before the WORD of GOD. The bible is what we have to bring everything back to and check. Thank God for that and his mercy! Glory to God!!!

    Comment by Krystal | November 18, 2008

  21. I found an interesting Catholic perspective on Mary here

    http://stephenhand2.blogspot.com/2008/08/grace-original-sin-and-our-blessed.html

    Comment by Paxus | December 17, 2008


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