I have repeatedly said that Barack Obama’s real religious faith and/or his lack of it, does not disqualify him from being a good political candidate [unless he were a dominionist or theocrat of any ilk, including a Christian theocrat, which in my view would make him dangerous]. If Obama is a bad president then this is decided on other issues than his religion, such as character, integrity, righteousness, wisdom, and politics. I have discussed this and my reasoning behind it in far more detail here: http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/11/18/kansas-preacher-pushes-obama-muslim-message/
However, that all said, as Obama’s religion is interesting, and as this is a religious blog with an interest in religion, here follows an interesting article by ‘Lavrai’ from here on Obama’s professed Christianity. Thank you Lavrai.
***
“I really don’t like posting about this man so often, but he appears to be everywhere and, like I do with other prominent individuals, including our current president, I am often compelled to point out their lies and our errors when it comes to my faith in Jesus Christ of Nazareth, the Only Begotten Son of the Living GOD, our only means of salvation.
Barack Obama states that he is a Christian. Political experts and various theologians and prominent Christian figures also repeat Mr. Obama’s claim — that he is a Christian. Even in my church, people repeat the same lie — ignorantly, of course.
I am quite sick of it. Unless Mr. Obama has never been properly taught what Salvation through Jesus Christ is and what a saved individual believes, how they live and the choices they make — then he’s lying, purposefully deceiving us. I am not even addressing his stance on abortion. This is about a man who insists the he’s a Christian, that he knows Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
I will be looking at two articles concerning Mr. Obama’s faith — interviews with his own words and explanations. One article was published in 2004, the other in 2008. Draw your own conclusions based on Mr. Obama’s words and the only source we have on Christianity — the Holy Bible.
But before I go forward, he are some basic definitions.
According to The American Heritage® New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition via Dictionary.com:
Definition of A Christian – A follower or disciple of Jesus; someone who believes Jesus is the Christ or Messiah.
Definition of Christianity – The religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. Christians believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah, sent by God. They believe that Jesus, by dying and rising from the dead, made up for the sin of Adam and thus redeemed the world, allowing all who believe in him to enter heaven. Christians rely on the Bible as the inspired word of God.
Definition of Holy Bible – The book sacred to Christians, which they consider to be the inspired word of God. The Bible includes the Old Testament, which contains the sacred books of the Jews, and the New Testament, which begins with the birth of Jesus.
Review: A Christian is one whose faith is Salvation in Jesus Christ of Nazareth, the Messiah and Only Begotten Son of the LIVING GOD. Christians believe the Holy Bible is the undeniable, totally true Word of GOD.
Facts about Christianity based on the only source on Christianity, the Holy Bible:
1. Christianity is based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
2. The life and teachings of Jesus Christ of Nazareth are revealed in the Holy Bible.
3. The Holy Bible was “written” by GOD at the hand of chosen men.
Questions:
What does the Holy Bible say about Jesus Christ of Nazareth? – Hebrews 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Review: Jesus is the Son of GOD; Jesus is above all and everyone; Jesus is the source of Creation; Jesus is the express image of GOD; Jesus makes atonement for all sins; Jesus sits at GOD’s right hand in Heaven.
What does the Holy Bible say about Salvation? – Acts 4:12 … “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
Review: Jesus Christ of Nazaretha the Only Begotten Son of the Living GOD, is the only means of Salvation; we can’t make it to Heaven, have Eternal Life, enter paradise, etc. without believing and confessing that Jesus Christ is LORD.
How does a Christian govern his/her life? – Ephesians 4:17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; 19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. 20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
Review: Once we become a Christian, we put away the old things, thoughts and habits that separate mankind from GOD; Christians seek to live daily in righteousness and holiness, which is possible through GOD, the HEAD of our lives.
So, I believe I have explained the basics of Christianity and a Christian (and I mean basic). Now, we can go forward in examining what Barack Obama says about his so-called Christian faith and see whether it lines up with what we know and understand Christianity to be.
Let’s start with the excerpts from the most recent article, published June 12, 2008, on Newsweek:
Finding His Faith
So much has been made about Barack Obama’s religion. But what does he believe, and how did he arrive at those beliefs?
1. Always drawn to life’s Big Questions, Obama embarked on a spiritual quest in which he tried to reconcile his rational side with his yearning for transcendence. He found Christ-but that hasn’t stopped him from asking questions. “I’m on my own faith journey and I’m searching,” he says. “I leave open the possibility that I’m entirely wrong.” [That doesn't sound like faith in Jesus Christ of Nazareth; if one doubts, he certainly doesn't believe and if he doesn't believe, he certainly doesn't know Jesus Christ of Nazareth].
When Franklin Graham asked Obama recently how, as a Christian, he could reconcile New Testament claims that salvation was attainable only through Christ with a campaign that embraces pluralism and diversity, Obama tells NEWSWEEK he said: “It is a precept of my Christian faith that my redemption comes through Christ, but I am also a big believer in the Golden Rule, which I think is an essential pillar not only of my faith but of my values and my ideals and my experience here on Earth. I’ve said this before, and I know this raises questions in the minds of some evangelicals. I do not believe that my mother, who never formally embraced Christianity as far as I know … I do not believe she went to hell.” Graham, he said, was very gracious in reply. Should Obama beat John McCain, he has history on his side. Presidents such as Lincoln and Jefferson were unorthodox Christians; and, according to a Pew Forum survey, 70 percent of Americans agree with the statement that “many religions can lead to eternal life.” “My particular set of beliefs,” Obama says, “may not be perfectly consistent with the beliefs of other Christians.”
This man has a way with words. — Do you notice that he appears to not believe what Jesus Christ says about Salvation and how one attains Eternal Life? Obama makes Christianity sound like an option, that works great for him, but may not necessarily work well for others — “It is a precept of my Christian faith that my redemption comes through Christ…” If you know Jesus Christ of Nazareth, you know that Salvation through HIM is not an option — it is the only way to be saved from GOD’s judgment — and that’s what the Holy Bible says in various passages. What book is Mr. Obama reading if not the Holy Bible?
In the article, Mr. Obama says he doesn’t believe his mother, who never formally embraced Christianity as far as he knows, went to hell. It would be a hard thing to confess about a loved one, but this is what Mr. Obama says about his mother earlier in the article:
Did Ann believe in God? Obama calls his mother “an agnostic.” “I think she believed in a higher power,” he says. “She believed in the fundamental order and goodness of the universe. She would have been very comfortable with Einstein’s idea that God doesn’t play dice. But I think she was very suspicious of the notion that one particular organized religion offered one truth.”
Based on this 2008 article, we read that Obama is not sure if Jesus Christ is the way and that agnostics, perhaps because they are “good,” have a place in GOD’s Kingdom.
Here are excerpts from a reposted 2004 interview by a writer for the Chicago Sun Times on Obama and his faith:
[CATHLEEN] FALSANI:
What do you believe?
OBAMA:
I am a Christian.
So, I have a deep faith. So I draw from the Christian faith.
… So, I’m rooted in the Christian tradition. I believe that there are many paths to the same place, and that is a belief that there is a higher power, a belief that we are connected as a people. That there are values that transcend race or culture, that move us forward, and there’s an obligation for all of us individually as well as collectively to take responsibility to make those values lived.
FALSANI:
Have you always been a Christian?
OBAMA:
I was raised more by my mother and my mother was Christian. [This is interesting... 4 years later he says his mother was agnostic and didn't formerly embrace Christianity as far as he knows].
…
FALSANI:
So you got yourself born again?
OBAMA:
Yeah, although I don’t, I retain from my childhood and my experiences growing up a suspicion of dogma. And I’m not somebody who is always comfortable with language that implies I’ve got a monopoly on the truth, or that my faith is automatically transferable to others.
I’m a big believer in tolerance. I think that religion at it’s best comes with a big dose of doubt. I’m suspicious of too much certainty in the pursuit of understanding just because I think people are limited in their understanding.
I think that, particularly as somebody who’s now in the public realm and is a student of what brings people together and what drives them apart, there’s an enormous amount of damage done around the world in the name of religion and certainty.
…
FALSANI:
Do you pray often?
OBAMA:
Uh, yeah, I guess I do.
Its’ not formal, me getting on my knees. I think I have an ongoing conversation with God. I think throughout the day, I’m constantly asking myself questions about what I’m doing, why am I doing it.
…
FALSANI:
Who’s Jesus to you?
(He laughs nervously)
OBAMA:
Right.
Jesus is an historical figure for me, and he’s also a bridge between God and man, in the Christian faith, and one that I think is powerful precisely because he serves as that means of us reaching something higher.
And he’s also a wonderful teacher. I think it’s important for all of us, of whatever faith, to have teachers in the flesh and also teachers in history. [Wow... so Jesus is a "wonderful teacher," a "historical figure" ... yet Christianity says Jesus Christ is very much more than that -- HE IS GOD.]
FALSANI:
Is Jesus someone who you feel you have a regular connection with now, a personal connection with in your life?
OBAMA:
Yeah. Yes. I think some of the things I talked about earlier are addressed through, are channeled through my Christian faith and a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
…
FALSANI:
Do you think it’s wrong for people to want to know about a civic leader’s spirituality?
OBAMA:
I don’t’ think it’s wrong. I think that political leaders are subject to all sorts of vetting by the public, and this can be a component of that.
I think that I am disturbed by, let me put it this way: I think there is an enormous danger on the part of public figures to rationalize or justify their actions by claiming God’s mandate.
I think there is this tendency that I don’t think is healthy for public figures to wear religion on their sleeve as a means to insulate themselves from criticism, or dialogue with people who disagree with them.
FALSANI:
The conversation stopper, when you say you’re a Christian and leave it at that.
OBAMA:
Where do you move forward with that?
This is something that I’m sure I’d have serious debates with my fellow Christians about. I think that the difficult thing about any religion, including Christianity, is that at some level there is a call to evangelize and prostelytize. There’s the belief, certainly in some quarters, that people haven’t embraced Jesus Christ as their personal savior that they’re going to hell. [Um... that's what the Word of GOD says, that's what Jesus explained to his disciples, that's what the apostles wrote under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.]
FALSANI:
You don’t believe that?
OBAMA:
I find it hard to believe that my God would consign four-fifths of the world to hell.
I can’t imagine that my God would allow some little Hindu kid in India who never interacts with the Christian faith to somehow burn for all eternity.
That’s just not part of my religious makeup.
Part of the reason I think it’s always difficult for public figures to talk about this is that the nature of politics is that you want to have everybody like you and project the best possible traits onto you. Oftentimes that’s by being as vague as possible, or appealing to the lowest common denominators. The more specific and detailed you are on issues as personal and fundamental as your faith, the more potentially dangerous it is. [So, he's saying he purposefully waters everything down so as not to offend anyone; but he also expresses again, that he does not know GOD, who indeed does have a place of eternal damnation for those who reject HIS Son Jesus Christ of Nazareth.]
…
FALSANI:
Do you believe in heaven?
OBAMA:
Do I believe in the harps and clouds and wings?
FALSANI:
A place spiritually you go to after you die?
OBAMA:
What I believe in is that if I live my life as well as I can, that I will be rewarded. I don’t presume to have knowledge of what happens after I die. But I feel very strongly that whether the reward is in the here and now or in the hereafter, the aligning myself to my faith and my values is a good thing.
When I tuck in my daughters at night and I feel like I’ve been a good father to them, and I see in them that I am transferring values that I got from my mother and that they’re kind people and that they’re honest people, and they’re curious people, that’s a little piece of heaven. [Mr. Obama expresses that he knows nothing about heaven... although Jesus Christ of Nazareth explains the after life for those who believe in HIM and those who reject HIM in the Holy Bible].
FALSANI:
Do you believe in sin?
OBAMA:
Yes.
FALSANI:
What is sin?
OBAMA:
Being out of alignment with my values.
FALSANI:
What happens if you have sin in your life?
OBAMA:
I think it’s the same thing as the question about heaven. In the same way that if I’m true to myself and my faith that that is its own reward, when I’m not true to it, it’s its own punishment.
Review: Based on these two interviews, one from 2004 and one from just this year, Mr. Barack Obama is NOT a Christian. He denies that Jesus Christ is LORD; according to Obama, Jesus Christ was a “wonderful teacher” and a “historical figure.” He doesn’t believe that Jesus Christ is the only means of Salvation. Obama doesn’t believe that those who reject Jesus Christ go to hell. Mr. Obama expresses salvation through works and being “good” — the Holy Bible says we cannot earn Salvation, although we are rewarded for our works. But we cannot be considered a nominee, a candidate, if you will, for any kind of reward if we don’t attain the prerequisite — belief in Jesus Christ as LORD.
Mr. Obama may be a good person, a nice person — but he is most certainly not a follower, believer in or friend of the LORD Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
Matthew 10:32 “Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.
Jude 1:16 These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage. 17 But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: 18 how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts. 19 These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit. 20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. 22 And on some have compassion, making a distinction; 23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire,[e] hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.”
________________________________________________________
See also http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/09/11/barack-obama-many-paths-lead-to-god-embracing-divine-within/
http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/07/21/barack-obama-john-mccain-and-their-lucky-charms/
http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/09/09/barack-obama-my-muslim-faith-err-i-mean-my-christian-faith/
http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/11/08/barack-obama-and-left-behinds-antichrist-president-nicolae-carpathia/
http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/08/26/barack-obama-is-likely-not-the-antichrist-say-left-behind-authors-tim-lahaye-and-jerry-jenkins/
Thank you for this Post.
In the words of Petra…
“Blinded eyes can’t see the truth when it’s written on the wall in plain view.”
It is indeed suspicious how his mother changes from agnostic to Christian when suitable.
“That doesn’t sound like faith in Jesus Christ of Nazareth; if one doubts, he certainly doesn’t believe and if he doesn’t believe, he certainly doesn’t know Jesus Christ of Nazareth”
Why exactly is doubt, and a questioning attitude towards what one is taught a bad thing?
We don’t all have a revelation on the way to Damascus.
We risk forcing Christians to hide their internal conflicts for fear of “not looking like true Christians” instead of candidly discussing them, without shame.
Admitting doubt humbly is surely better than the reverse problem of false certainty.
If you can say that introspection and doubt is healthy for a Muslim or Hindu, it should also be valid for Christianity.
A correct belief will withstand scrutiny and difficult questions.
Obama: “I can’t imagine that my God would allow some little Hindu kid in India who never interacts with the Christian faith to somehow burn for all eternity.”
Speaking of difficult questions.
He’s got a point there. Eternal torture to a child for a finite crime (even murder, much less simply dying young or growing up in the wrong place) would be immoral.
If people accept that, I don’t think they can claim God is omni-benevolent anymore.
You what is scary… is that we told a women that we go to church with that voted for him about this article, and we asked her did she know this information…. “No, I didnt know that” completely shocked look on her face. Barack knows Jesus on his terms, and he is very confusing to say the least, but I’m not that confused to say he is not a christian, he is very new age, trying to unite the church and sin together, and I feel, you know I cant really describe how I feel, I can sum it up as this….
When the people of Israel demanded a king, and Samuel warned the people of what this king will do. They wanted a earthly (human) political figure, and instead of God to be their King! Oh how true it is “There is nothing new under the sun” Once Samuel anoited Saul as King,Samuel warned them again that if they rebelled against the commandments of the Lord, His hand would be against them, and their political systems would not work. As my Bible puts it in the commentary “God’s people must pray, intercede, and obey God if they want to see God’s blessing on their government and land. Salavation and the answers for society will never come from an earthly or political messiah, but only through the Messiah, Jesus Christ.
So when you hear there are many paths to God, we all pray to the same god weather your Muslim, Christian, etc… this is an antichrist spirit, and denies, and cuts the deity of Christ Jesus. Anytime you can have a “Embrace the Change” gospel concert, and diabolical plot to have gospel group come, such as Donnie McClurkin
(I dont follow Donnie McClurkin so I dont really know his views, but I have heard his testimony) who has testimony of being delivered from homosexuality and tell the crowd that and from reading the article that homosexuality is a choice to refute the lie of satan to say that your born that way, and tells the judgement of those that are unrepentant, only to share the ticket and stage with a openly gay pastor, which opened up this shabang with prayer and then left, what was the intention of Barack Obama???
See for yourself, his wife addressing the gay and lesbian council… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6Kxi8eeo3U
This is a job and we cannot discriminate based on a persons beliefs that’s why we started this country the way we did. So that we all have freedom to believe what we want and stay free from persecution for that belief. That being said, most politicians throughout history have been vague when answering the same kind of questions. There are millions of people here in america all believing something a little different, but we all still have to get along together. For a politician you can’t be too far on any side. That’s a good thing in this country because there are so many different kinds of people. The president has alot of diverse people to please, and that’s his job. He should work for the people regardless of his own beliefs. If we were electing a religious leader he wouldn’t be the best canidate, but thankfully that’s not what he was running for. Is he sincere in his own relationship with God, yeah, I think so, I didn’t read anything in this post that makes me think he is unsincere, just vague. But that doesn’t matter. It’s his relationship with Christ, which is between him and God. Is he the best christian, no probably not, but he is a normal christian in america. His answers reflect the majority senses of christianity today in america. I don’t think that’s necisarily right for God, but our own relationships with God are our own business. By no means does it sound like he is against Christ, he has outwardly, in the public view any way, a luke warm faith. Like many Christians in the world. Let us not riticule eachother as christians (and I do still include Obama in that group, though he may not have a burnig faith within him or great understanding) but rather embrace eachother. Embrace eachother in Christ and not speculate the measure of faith in one another. That is not our duty. Ours is to love and in loving we can profess Christ and spread the message of His Love and Glory and Mercy and Wisdome and Truth and Compasion. Where is the compasion. Why are we as Christians not embracing this man in Christ. Satan pits us against eachother always. He was doing the same thing at the time of christ with the Jews. leading them away from what God is truely about by helping them to argue with eachother as to what is right and what makes you good with God. That’s always between God and each individual, because only God knows what is in our hearts, that’s why he is the judge. It doesn’t matter how he chooses to worship, because this is a job and not a religious calling. Preachers preach, and politicians politicate. Let’s all pray for him because he is the leader of this country, and not worry about the details and streangth of his personal relationship with God. All we can do as followers of Christ is then be Christ like. And trust me Christ was not involved in politics. He was out in the streets teaching people the Word, giving them the love of God and showing them the way. Christ is the way I know this to be true. What I can do now that I know this is thruth I can live it. I can love God and keep his commandments in my life, I can love my neighbor and I can pray always to be closer to Him, pray for others to find His love and acceptance. And not because I’m right and their wrong but because the Love God has shown me and the good He has done in my life I want for others to have. Because I have the coolest friend and I want the world to also have Him, Jesus Christ. Glory to God!!!
Yes I remember reading he had said there’s more than one path, etc. I thought, this man does not know the Living God. And this is precisely why we should absolutely be on our knees for this man. I HATE to think of him dying right now!
Jude 1:16 These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage. 17 But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: 18 how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts. 19 These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit. 20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. 22 And on some have compassion, making a distinction; 23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire,[e] hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.”
I see these words applying to many Christian leaders who have set themselves up and are nowhere near the narrow path.
They consider themselves to have arrived, and in fact not only do they NOT enter into the kindgom of God, but also stop others from entering in also.
I see that is has been missed purposefully or not that Barack did say Jesus Christ was tehe bridge between God and man, which is exactly what we teach, that it6 ios ONLY Christ that is THE bridge between God and man unto salvation.
I have had the same said to me, as above regarding MY mother who was a Catholic, she knew wxactly who Christ was, and tht he had died for her sins, and she served others
and loved others believing her God would have her to do as He had done unto even the least.
But similiar Christians as above, said to me,
‘Oh your mothers isn’t save, she is NOT a christian
otherwise she would not go to mass.
She did what she knew. she knew Christ suffered and died for her sins, and unfortunately she also followed wht she had been indoctrinated in from childhood, attending mass.
Now I can’t say, the same as Barack if my mother has gone to heaven or not.
Many Christians here, would say…..of course she is in hell, she was a Catholic,and seeing she didn’t stop going to Mass, that proves she was not saved.
I will let God be her Judge.
She accepted Christ and wht He had done, and she also
like Barack and his mother served others liek Christ did,
and what Christ taught in his parables.
________________________________________________________
Not so very different from what the majority of American “christians” believe.
80% of americans say they believe they are going to heaven when asked. However when asked the same question about their neighbour the response is 20% would go to heaven.
People think they are Christians even though they don’t really know what being born-again means.
A lot of it is to do with those tv channels that carry Benny Hinn, Rod Parsley, Don Stewart, Peter Popoff …
you know the ones … TBN, HellTV … uh sorry … ‘God’TV … and so on.
Rick Warren is a prime example of how to water down the gospel so that you don’t put off punters … uh, I mean … seekers … uh, actually, I do mean people who will give money for the weekly entertainment.
Obama is the type of religious person that represents the average clueless Joe that pitches up at church every Sunday looking for a wise word or a promise that God wants to shower you with cash …
Typical churches of this type include Hill$ong … with lead Pastor (or CEO) Brian Houston and his book “You need more Money” and his wife’s audio tape series “Kingdom Women Love Sex” both around the $20 dollar mark.
When confronted with that kind of rubbish, in contrast, Barack Obama looks like a saint.
That’s my tuppence w’rth anyway.
Shalom.
Give the man some credit for what appears to be honest contemplation and thought. His own words reflect the very nature of the intellectual mind when searching for the road of faith. The manner in which many American Christians push for their leaders to proclaim a faith in Christ is a terrible political pressure and entirely wrong in my opinion. mrfun’s statement about humbly admitting doubt is important. Do we want to hear someone’s honest reflections in a search of faith or do we just want to hear what we want to hear?
What Obama appears to have done with these statements is simply admit that he is searching….and in all honesty he is saying much of what the founding fathers of the U.S. said. While many of them made statements that indicated they were Christians, many others such as Washington or Jefferson were ambivalent regarding faith yet were considered great presidents.
Personally, I would much rather see an American president with intellectual stamina, moral fibre and the ability to listen such as Obama has demonstrated rather than one who claims to be born again and yet fosters falsehood, war and fear.
In all the dire handwringing that Obama is going to lead America into judgment (is he really going to be held responsible for policies of the past administrations?) I have to wonder if it isn’t just possible that Obama is God’s mercy in a time of great trouble, now and pending. He is well known for his intellectual acumen and ability to listen and dialogue as well as a calm, steady approach during a time of crisis….aspects of wisdom are they not?
Just pray for the man.
Chronicler
As I have previously said, I would much rather someone be honest about what they believe than pretend to be a born again Christian etc – and Christianity alone does not make a great president make. I agree with you about the need for ability, wisdom and intregrity.
And, if these statements are true, fair enough for that, and may he find the One who his soul knows it searches for. But ’searching’, though commendable, does not make one a Christian. Which is what this article examines, so your point is?
And one can pray for someone if better equipped with the right knowledge about what to pray for – for this is a key starting point. For assuming/being hoodwinked into thinking he is a Christian and praying along those lines, and starting from the basis he is not one while praying for him could alter how the church prays for him, as well as the effectiveness of the prayers.
Mrfun
It is not.
But his purported views do not make a Christian make and show he is not born again, not a disciple of Christ, and does not know the truth of the gospel or the uniqueness of Jesus.
These beliefs do not make him a bad president, but they do make Obama someone who is not a Christian.
God will not Judge those to hell who havent heard his word, but all will hear his word
“God will not Judge those to hell who havent heard his word, but all will hear his word”
That is not quite true. All “nations” will hear the gospel of Jesus Christ, not all “people”. Many people have died without hearing the Word of God.
“”Give the man some credit for what appears to be honest contemplation and thought. His own words reflect the very nature of the intellectual mind when searching for the road of faith. The manner in which many American Christians push for their leaders to proclaim a faith in Christ is a terrible political pressure and entirely wrong in my opinion.”"
I have to disagree. Christians have every right to push for Christian leaders (we are, at least we WERE a Christian nation), and most especially (as in Obama’s case) those who “claim” to be Christian, to act and speak accordingly. If he’s still, as you say, “searching for the road of faith”, then clearly he is NOT born again, and should therefore NOT lable himself as a Christian. For example, I think cancer doctors are great, gifted people. I honor what they do and applaud them for their dedication and service to the sick. So much so that I could exclaim all day long “I’m a surgeon” simply because I admire what they do, but that doesen’t make me a surgeon. Joyce Meyer (I know WOF teacher), although I don’t agree with her theology, said something once that had so much truth in it. “You can sit in a garage all day long, but that won’t make you a car”. Obama can call himself Christain until his eyeballs pop out, but his beliefs (going by the words that come out of his own mouth), and his values scream otherwise. I’m sick and tired of so many people calling themselves “christian” and yet what they believe and teach (cherry picking the bible, and distorting scripture to do it) is the antithesis of what Christ taught.
One last thought: Obama, like so many other politicians, calls himself a “christian” because it is expediant and gets him brownie points with other Christians.
Eli:
I agree with this. I think it very wrong that an American political leader has to pretend to be a Christian in order to get far in US politics. And many of the church know they are being hoodwinked by the politicians, yet still they tolerate and demand yet more of this hypocrisy. That is not right at all. The church would rather be lied to and played than have an honest agnostic/atheist/whatever!
But this is not the same thing as the first statement quoted. As many Christians know at heart and in truth that many of these ‘Christian’ political leaders are only paying lip service/playing them/pandering to them.
Christians do have every right to push for ‘Christian leaders’ – of course they do – but if that becomes the ONLY criteria and they are blinded to the “Christian’s” faults/hypocrisy/bad politics, and when everything else/every other candidate that is not a Christian becomes a sinful choice and is demonised as are his voters – especially where the ‘Christian’ candidate is obviously not the best person for the job – then this is neither right or righteous.
Yep agreed, and this ain’t right at all – right or left wing. But it’s ‘funny’ how the right wing are happy to quickly say Obama is not a Christian {and rightly so] but not George W Bush who has said similar interfaith/universalist claptrap to Obama. Why is Bush acceptable and not Obama? Because he is right wing? White? Pro Life?
every person will be judged on what they did with what they knew and their deeds…Christ sent the Holy Spirit to convict the world of sin,sadly there’s much confusion in the world but God is not the author of it,God is the Master communicator,he can get through to anybody and He can do it in ways we do not understand….BUT the only way to the Father is through Christ ..this is unchangeable.
I agree that to decide a man or woman are a christian because they are pro life is ridiculous. GW and his “all of us worship the same GOD” proves that he has no understanding of biblical christianity. That being said, I would however have voted for him again had he been in the fray. These are some of the reasons why, 1.The tax cuts that he helped to get passed put $2500.00 more dollars in my families pocket a year, regardless of the lies that were told that it was only for the rich, I do my own taxes and witnessed it myself, and that is from $30,000.00 a year to a $70,000.00 a year range. 2.He has supported family values, and the right of parents to send thier children to private schools or homeschool as me and my wife do with our 14 year old son, he even supported giving vouchers so parents could afford private schools.( Had this been done it would have spurred competition and raised the bar) 3.He has stood behind the 2nd ammendment, wanting the people to have the right our founders gave us to self defense, and the part no one wants to discuss, that we would have the means to defend ourselves against a corrupt government, and even overthrow such a government to restore the constitution.(THIS IS TRULY WHAT THE 2nd AMMENDMENT IS FOR)4.He believes in the right of the unborn, while this is not the sole test to see if one is a christian it MUST BE PART OF A TRUE CHRISTIANS LIFE. 5.He believes in a strong defense so as to counter or discourage any attacks by our enemies. (HISTORY HAS PROVEN THAT WEAKNESS INVITES ATTACK) Im sure most everyone here saw the UTUBE by the american soldier adressing Mr. Obama on Iraq, while many want to get thier righteous indignation up about Iraq and even compare this to abortion, I see that as utter blindness and paying no attention to the facts. Is war good, NO! However it has been here for as long as man has and at times is nessesary. Remember that those who are murdering innocent civilians in Iraq are thier own people, NOT AMERICAN SOLDIERS! There is also very little collatoral damage and most of the time this is caused by terrorists planting themselves among innocent civilians. (TO GET TO THE POINT ITS NOT GEORGE BUSHS FAULT NO MORE THAN HITLER WAS CHURCHHILLS FAULT)6.He has allways been for a free market and for people to have personal choice as to how they live and conduct business, he has allways wanted the federal gov. to stay off the small business back and tax them little so they can get off the ground.(HE IS ALSO SMART ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT LOWERING TAXES SPURS GROWTH)7.He has appointed judges that will uphold the constitution NOT CHANGE IT! Now has he been perfect, absolutely not, Im aggrivated that he didnt veto about 50% of the spending bills he got! I wish he would have cut the size of our gov. in half instead of growing it! I wish he would have introduced a bill that would make it illegal to vote unless you file a tax form, that would cut out the uninformed 18 year olds who have no business voting. Or heres one, you cant vote if you dont know who is next in line to be president after the vice president. (NO OFFENCE BUT THAT WOULD HAVE PUT MCCAIN OVER THE TOP) Now Im sure I will have started a firestorm with this but Im really sick of hearing how bad its been under GW! We have had peace here in America even after we were attacked on 911 which in itself set the economy back. I dare say that GW did a tremendous job and because of his tax cuts spurred growth in this economy. He is a leader, who let us not forget was also chosen by GOD to lead this nation. Mr. Obama was elected because the American people are spoiled ROTTEN and can never get enough, we want someone to promise us MORE,MORE,MORE,! I have not had a vision, or a booming voice from above, but I will say by reading GODS word that it is plain to see why GOD has given us the President we have gotten and its NOT FOR OUR GOOD. We are UNTHANKFUL, UNGRATEFUL, AND UNHOLY, and in my humble opinion at the threshhold of judgement! Unless Mr. Obama and this nation repents we will see this judgement, and will be begging for a leader such as George Bush, not because he is to be praised just because we will realize we should have been thankful for what we have and the peace we have enjoyed! I know this is off topic a little but I felt strongly to write this. GOD BLESS!!!
we will know them by their fruits.good or bad…take notice.
FALSANI:
Do you pray often?
OBAMA:
Uh, yeah, I guess I do.
Its’ not formal, me getting on my knees. I think I have an ongoing conversation with God. I think throughout the day, I’m constantly asking myself questions about what I’m doing, why am I doing it.
Some are further along on the journey than others. I have faith that God will guide Mr. Obama.
He is a gift to the world from God. Work with him, he is as capable of learning from you as we are from him.
The world is a better place already.
Quit being afraid.
Believe in God.
Heaven…
It is very apparent by some of the posts written here – that some that think they are a Christian are really a ‘christian’ – meaning a Christian according to their own definition/interpretation of the scriptures, not Holy Spirit’s revealed truth/work to/in the heart and understanding.
But, this is most of what attends churches acrossed our land now adays. Woe, Woe, Woe to them.
No understanding of sin – no understanding of redemption – mercy – grace – judgement.
http://www.thelordsremnant.com
Yes Melaine
Isn;’t it wonderful Barack is THAT committed to continuing to follow truth AFTER he has STATED that Christ IS the bridge bwtween God and man.
And he thnks he as a CONTINUOUS conversation with Him, as well as Paul did, when Paul said he also, like Obama believes he continually prays.
I remember being asked by my pastor, some 30 yrs ago how often I prayed, to which I prayed, oh orobably about 1 hr a day verbally, but I think I pray continuously, as my mind is constantly on Him as I ponder His words, and ways.
As we are to continually work out our salvation with fear and trembling.
Its a shame most minsters would not take a leaft out of
Baracks book.
dear Jeff whatever your real name is…the gift from God is eternal life through Christ Jesus the only begotten of the Father…the President elect is a man not a gift from God…ALL have fallen short of the Glory of God…every man has been born into sin including the man you are lifting so high…where is the fruit of his salvation?where is the bearing of witness by the Holy Spirit? Mr.Obama my turn out to be a great leader…but let’s allow God to determine what a “great leader” is.
Oh my! I am greatfull to live in a country where we are all free to vote. Regardless of anything, race, sex, age, social status. Thank you God for letting me be in a place where I am free, and I can be a part of what is governing me. I am greatfull that when I ask God for discernment on an issue he givces it to me, when I ask him for truth he gives it to me! Glory to God! He is Awesome, and good to His Word, and full of all Love and Mercy. That I might have the gift of eternal life through His sacrifice in faith. I do fear however that our war mongering with Iraq will turn into a full on war with Islam. All of Islam, for what we call righteousness to back up Isreal. I fear that we are loosing grips on Christs message of love.
Romans 14:17-20 For the Kingdon of God is not meat ad drink but RIGHTEOUSNESS, and PEACE, and JOY in the HOLY GHOST. For he that serveth Christ in these things is acceptable to God, and approved of men. LET US THEREFOR FOLLOW AFTER THE THINGS WHICH MAKE FOR PEACE, AND THINGS WHERE WITH ONE MAY EDIFY ANOTHER. For meat destroy not the work of God. All theings indeed are pure, but it s evil with that man who eateth with offense.
We should all read Romans 14. We need not think what is right and wrong for one another, or judge eachother. We should only be serving Christ in righteousness, peace, and joy. Following after the things that make for peace, to uplift eachother. If this is what we were doing, every person claiming to be a Christian we wouldn’t be having the problems we’re having, but that’s ok it’s all God’s will.
Again the message is LOVE, spread it!!! It’s the only way to bring sheep into the fold!!
Romans 14:5-7
One person esteems one day above another, another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully persuaded in his own mind, He who observes the day observes it to the Lord, and he who does not observe he day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord for he gives God thanks. and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and he gives the Lord Thanks.
Romans 14:9-16
For to this end Christ Died and rose and Loved again, that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living. But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgement seat of Christ. For it is written: “As I live, says the LOrd, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.” So each of us shall give account of himself to God. Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brothers way. I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself, But to him that conciders anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you aer no longer walking in love. Do not destroy the one for whom Chrostdied with your food. Therefore let not your good be spoken of as evil…
Romans 14:22-23
DO YOU HAVE FAITH? Hve it to yourself before God. HAPPY IS HE WHO DOES NOT CONDEMN HIMSELF IN WHAT HE APROVES.But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith, for what ever is not of faith is of sin.
Rev 17:17 “For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.”
folks, the people chose their king not God. they choice a leader that agrees with abortion and sodomy. God says we are to desire godly leadership. its clear this election, we did not get that blessing. this nation has chosen a man that reflects the lack of morals this nation was founded upon. sad but true. we will pray to God for His will to be done, but we will not pray to promote the demonic agenda of obama for this nation
jeffObama,
President Elecet Obama is not a gift from God any more than you or I. He is simply the MAN that was elected by the MASSES due to the frustrations and problems that are happening to the United States. The sad thing is that nobody will question this future president honestly. If you actually read his answers you can see how he distorts everything he says. He is vague and leaves so much to be questioned. As this article is about, it is about the fact that Mr. Obama is not a Christian.
Since Mr. Obama is not clear about his own beliefs we can conclude that he will not be clear with the direction of our country. If a man does not know what he believes as truth for himself how can he govern over 300 million people. The problem with the current president is that he has not been 100% forth-coming but he has done exactly what he said he would. If we go to James chapter 1 we see an analogy of one who doubts, “he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind.” Now this passage is in reference to asking God for wisdom but can apply to all things regarding faith and belief. “That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in ALL he does.” Mr. Obama doubts God, it is doubting God that is wrong, we can have doubt in ourselves but never God.
I just came across this website-pretty much saying the same thing-that the USA will be attacked. http://www.thebiblehasavoice.org
George Bush has done his utmost to dismantle our Constitution. The rule of law is in the gravest danger,and millions here are lulled to complacency if gas prices fall.
If I didn’t believe in God I would be terribly afraid. We are in such trouble that no politician or president can help us now.
I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that He is able to give us strength for whatever lies ahead.
I was looking up some stuff to find in my bible because concordance was limited. then it went to the revival in Florida which I saw on TV and I live in NH them I saw something on Obama. I voted for Obama and I’m a Christian – I prayed about it – no one is perfect – he wants to try to change and help all of us who are losing and don’t have insurance and end the war. Heck yes, he was NH first and his
people came to visit me in my home and I was impressed and continued to follow. I do think him a Godly man. I don’t associate him with the extreme pastor my friends are talking about. May God guide his journey.
Gail I feel we are getting closer to the latter days
It’s true that professing to be a Christian should not be the prime criteria for leading a country, emphasis on “professing”. As someone pointed out, the real prob is that Christians purposely blind themselves to what they don’t want to see/hear/read, when it comes to politics. So many of them, almost vote in spite, as a slap at the outgoing leader. I agree with the person who said GW has not been a perfect leader but he did do a lot of things rightly. He also is not the ruler by fiat, so possibly he didn’t accomplish all that person would have liked because of barriers by others. When it comes to what a person believes, as it was pointed out “by their fruit…” and that means they could be in a denomination you may not like nor agree with much, but they themselves could be seeking to live under the Lordship of Jesus in their everyday lives.I think of the situation in Canada here, where the people in the vanguard, for the most part, of taking a stand against the homosexual lobbies / agenda, and the proliferation of abortion, are Catholics – one lady has already served 6 yr in jail for peacefully, silently standing with a sign / placard, not far (enough apparently) from Dr. Morgentaler (I prefer Morgue-entaler)’s clinic. He got an injunction to prevent pro lifers from protesting abortion in any shape or method, within 500 meters of his abortuary.This lady felt she should obey God’s leading, to “speak” (via sign) even if it meant she would pay a penalty for it. I have not heard one sermon in all the evangelical churches I have attended about the subject or about a Christian’s duty to speak God’s perspective to a disobedient and rebellious generation. I will give credit thusly, where it is due.
Dear Paula,
Read the quote from the Falsani/Obama interview again (# 19). Who does he have a continuous conversation with?
Now read your post again (# 22). Who is your mind constantly on?
Peace to you,
Melanie
Melanie,
Do you mean where Barack says “I believe I have a continual converstion with God, I am always thinking ‘why am I doing this’, and where am I going?
That is exactly what I was saying.
I also constantly check myself and my motives, as it is I who will have to give an account one day.
Why am I doing this….I might not say exactly ‘where am I going’ it probably is morelike, am I going to right way,
have I in any way turned to the left or the right….etc etc
You see, I believe God DOES want to us to look in the mirror, and check these things.
I ask children the same….why are you doing this, what are you hoping to achieve with this decision…have you considered what effect your actions will have.
Paula,
I agree. Romans 14 I think it is. “But why dost thou judge thy brother? Or set at naught thy brother? For we shall all stand before the judgement seat of Christ…So then everyone of us shall give account of himself to God…Let us therefor follow after the things which make for peace, and the things wherewith one may edify another.”
In no way am I saying he is a great Christian, but I’m not saying he is a bad one either. That’s just not a judgement I’m willing to place upon someone that I don’t know inside and out every day. “For with what judgement ye judge, ye will be judged”. That is why I’m carefull where I place my judgement on how a man lives his life. I would hate that judgement to come back to myself. Mr. Obama just like the rest of us will have to give account of himself before the judgement seat of Christ.
The bigger question is say the devil tells you you can do anything you want, you can rape, and murder and steal, so you do those things. Who is accountable? The devil allowed it to happen, he even put the idea in your head. But in the end the answer is you. Your accountable for your own actions. Therefore someone who legalizes things that are sins, is not the person at fault for those sins, the person commiting them is. If being prochoice and pro homosexual civil union will help a diverse group of people peacefully get along, then I don’t see where the person backing that legislation is at fault for any sin committed because of that. The women who get an abbortion or the homosexuals will be the ones with that sin on their record. Not the people who said they can do it. Technically I can do alot of things that are “allowed” in this country, many of them being sins, but it is my choice. And at the end I will be the one accountable, not the country that said I was free to do those things.
Let us all serve Christ by seeking after the thigns which make for peace, by loving eachother, and uplifting eachother. That is where the real war is won.
Glory to God Almighty, for He is full of peace and righteousness and joy. Becuase He is mercifull to those who fear Him. Because He is the judge in all righteousness, and truth. Glory to God on High, for He is the one that sanstifies each of us. I am no more holy than the rapist in prison or the woman on her fourth abortion, I am no more holy than the corperation robbing from the poor, or the gay man down the streat. I am just as lowly as anyone, and in that we are all equal. Glory to God for His sacrifice, for His giving me a way despite my lowlyness. Glory to God for His abounding Love, that I might not perish and be lost to sin. Without Him we are all gone, and by Him we all have a chance. The only way to let others (who are, by the way, in the exact same lowly state we all are) is to show them the forgiving love of Christ. Uplift eachother in Christ. So that they might also want a piece of the salvation pie that I got, so that they might want to know YHWH.
When all you see of someones religion is harsh judgements and uptight people why would you ever want what they have. I have Christ in my life and I want others to see the friend I have in Him, and want to know Him too. The only way God can use me to bring more sheep into the fold is by me loving them and loving life and loving God. I want the love of Chist to flow through me like there is no dam big enough to hold it back, so much so that people have to ask what do you have? What are you doing in life that you are so happy? That way I can say it is all my friend JESUS CHRIST. He is the coolest dude, He is what makes my life worth living and He is the only one who loves me so completely unconditionally. All I had to do was accept Him into my life. I just said Jesus I don’t know what the hell I’m doing down here, and I need your help. I want to know you and be with you. And faithfully He is there, always making me want to be a better person. Not for myself but for Him, who made me. Made me and the whole world, and everything beyond. I mean look at everything on this Earth and outside of it, of course I want to know the guy who did all this.
Sorry I got off subject, I just really love God, and tend to wander off in my own conversations with Him. It makes me a terrible person to have a conversation with, but it’s all good, I know He doesn’t mind. The point I was trying to make is that if Obama is a christian than good for him, if he isn’t than that’s ok too. It’s his walk with Christ ad not mine. I will try to love him and everything else and keep him in my prayers. But in the end he will account for himself to God. Just like the rest of us. We are all equal in sin, there is no difference with the exception of blasphomy. And no amount of legislation will change that, no amount of legislation will ever make the world a better place, because it doesn’t change the heart. And that’s where sin takes place first and last.
Krystal
“Your accountable for your own actions. Therefore someone who legalizes things that are sins, is not the person at fault for those sins, the person commiting them is. If being prochoice and pro homosexual civil union will help a diverse group of people peacefully get along, then I don’t see where the person backing that legislation is at fault for any sin committed because of that. The women who get an abbortion or the homosexuals will be the ones with that sin on their record. Not the people who said they can do it.”
There is a god ordained role of government to restrain evil, and promote what is good. I refer you now to
Romans 13, which says, “For rulers hold no terror for those who do right but for those who do wrong…For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing, He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrong-doer.”
Governing authorities are rightly judged by God when they restrain good and promote evil, as Barak Obama and his government have clearly promised they will do. ( Radical extreme , pro-aborton views, pro-homosexual agenda, even the promise of change–booting out the robber barons– he has reneged on, appointing Laurence Summers et al, the guys who refused to regulate the derivatives market,and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the guys that got us into this economic mess in the first place, appointing these incompetents to his Financial Advisors) He is an unrighteous governor.
I am quoting a previous post here I made, with some additions.
The government is God’s servant. Who is our God? He says “It is I who have created the destroyer to work havoc.” ( Is. 54:16.) Yes, Obama will be judged for his unrighteous wielding, (if he gets to legislate at all, don’t forget Miriam’s prohetic vision. We need to pray for this man’s eternal soul, that contrary to your annihilationist views, posted elsewhere, he will, according to the word of God, be in torment forever.)
We forget that God is sovereign over all nations, He judges one and then judges the nation he used to judge the other in a continuous chain He works toward his eternal purpose. I live in one of the eight cities Miriam notes in her prophecies of terror attacks, will be afflicted. I am going to suffer for the sin of others, I am righteous in Christ, but I and mine, and many unsaved I love here, will be part of this judgement of God. We will be held to account for the unrighteous actions of others. I will not accuse Him of wrongdoing. He is God. His thoughts are not my thoughts.
Krystal,
In addition, I didn’t have a chance to respond to a previous post you made, apparently trying to console us regarding the election results, saying something like “Don’t worry about the babies, they’re in heaven. Of course I believe that, with all my heart. When I lost my stillborn son eight years ago this very week, God comforted me with that truth. I do not hate abortion for some sentimental feeling for dead babies. I mourn for the soul-corrupting influence this extremely profitable industry has on all those involved. I saw that firsthand with the death of my son. I quote from a post I made in http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/08/26/barack-obama-and-the-comfort-room/:
I had a stillbirth at 18 weeks, my son had trisomy-18. I had to fight the hospital here to not have him conveniently-for-them dismembered and discarded. I wanted to hold him and mourn for him and grieve his death with dignity and invite the comfort of family and friends and have a memorial. His life, though short, was not insignificant. When he was born, he accidentally fell from my womb all forlorn and broken on the floor and I will never forget the feeling of horror as I stared at him there. I had so desired dignity to be a part of his death. I felt, this is how God feels, the same tearing grief at his creation being treated like trash. He wants every child, whether destined to live for seven minutes or 70 years to be treated with dignity.
I had a D@C later to correct hemorraghing, and I will never forget the scornful look of a doctor who came in later, as I was mourning the death of my son. “So you had a D@C after all, she said triumphantly. I just stared at her. I said nothing. She slunk out of the room.
This is the mind, exposed in all its’ lewd lust for death,of those who love their right to execute babies in the womb. They think they champion choice for women, but in their hatred of God they are thrilled when the choice is death, and incensed when the choice is life, so caught in their delusion they will stop at nothing, not even to intrude upon the private suffering of a grieving mother. This is the agenda Obama champions. I think that his conscience is beyond calloused, it is seared.
And this is what I mourn for, those with melted conciences; I think I share the heart of God in this. Every one of those involved in the birth of my son, from the nurses who refused to attend me (they had to hire an extremely inexperienced visiting nurse, and I suffered grave blood loss, because she did not recognize I had not passed the placenta) to the doctor who matter-of-factly performed the emergency D&C, and did not offer one word of condolence, all had hard hearts. Oh, there was a kind anesthesiologist, who touched my arm in sympathy and looked at my dead son in his crib. God bless that good man! No one else acknowledged my baby’s presence.
I mourn also for those mothers who take the seeming-easy way out, they are missing some of the great blessings of God. I hate no onne involved in this holocaust, I am just deeply, deeply grieved.
It is a fearful, terrible thing to ignore the spirit of God convicting of sin. It is this, as well as the slaughter of innocents, that God hates. We ignore our conscience at our peril.
I won’t post anymore about this. I am troubled, but I have said all I can.
Karen Butler,
Thank you for Romans 13. I stand corrected for saying those who allow it aren’t at fault. However, in no way am I deffending Obama as a righteous ruler. I don’t know that he will be and honestly he probably wont be. I’m simply saying that if we as Christians are upset about abortion, homosexuality, and verious other sins, the only way to change that is to love the people doing them, accept them as Christ has accepted us with our sins, forgiving us wholy for them. To turn away from sin takes a change in the heart, not in legislation. I’m only saying that the legislation is the least of our concerns. Praying for their souls and loving and forgivingeach one of them is where our concern should be. I know that God is the judge and will judge all people justly. It’s because I know this that I am not concerned with others sin, only my own. The well being of all of our souls is in my prayers. I completely accept Gods will and accept my minute role in it. I just want to concern myself with loving those around me loving God and praising Him. Hopefully He’ll be able to use me to get to others. In no way do I see how “We will be held to account for the unrighteous actions of others.” If you have scripture to back this up I am always willing to learn more and in no way will I ever say that I know it all.
Thank you again though for Romans 13, Those in positions of power to have a heavier burden to bear, and alot more to account for. That’s why it’s important to pray for him and his walk with Christ. However, I’m just not real worried about the sins, or unrighteousness of others. I’m worried about my own, and loving people enough that if they still turn away, well I couldn’t have done any more.
I wonder where we would all be if the battles fought in the Bible had, instead, allowed each one do his own thing (including for unrighteousness) for the sake of peace. I dare say God would have stepped in and destroyed the wicked – as He did in the flood. We HAVE to stand for righteousness! I would not want to stand before a Holy God if I didn’t.
Krystal,
When I said “We will be held to account for the unrighteous actions of others it is in this sense, in Joshua 22:20 where the scriptures say “Did not Achan the son of Zerah commit a trespass in the accursed thing and wrath fell on all the congregation of Israel? And that man did not perish alone in his iniquity.” So in that sense of corporate solidarity for guilt and punishment, especially when the sin involves those in authority, as Achan was the leader of his clan. But of course he stands alone before the throne of God, at the end of time. To be eternally condemned or live with Him forever in glory.
I appreciate the cheerful spirit you bring to all your posts, Krystal. I would wish that your optimism wasn’t at the expense of biblical truth, as in your abandonment of the doctrine of eternal punishment for sin. It is a distressing, agonizing truth, but it is a truth Scriptures clearly teach. Jesus said those condemned “will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life” (Matt.25:46) It might explain why I take sin so seriously, as I see and shudder at the eternal consequences for it, and you seem to take it more in stride.
But honestly, I cannot engage in long term debate about Scripture any more. My children need me to teach them, and I have seen very little fruit here from my efforts to be a doctrine policeman. Blessings to you, sister.
The audio may not sync up with the video..
This is a a message from Kim Daniels, called “Who’s Side Are You On”
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3414619336778851012
Here is a better link, if the other doesnt work…
http://video.yahoo.com/watch/3797501/10403928
I dont follow Kim Daniels so I really dont know what she is about, however I thought the message about Who’s side are you on, the tenor of her message was very good.
prepare ye the way
Kim/Kimberley Daniels is a NAR apostle who spoke this message at a NAR convention.
This message was linked to by Steve Strang owner of Charisma Magazine, http://strangreport.com/index.php/2008/12/apostles-and-prophets-grapple-with.html , another NAR apostle.
Sadly Daniel’s message contains falsity and distortions and Strang’s continued spin on it and the subject is also troubling.
A Christian he most certainly is not! I’m highly suspicious that he’s actually a New Ager… And if he is… THAT would not be good, considering what the NAM is all about.
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/08/lkl.osteens/index.html
Osteens on Larry King: Obama doing great job, loves the Lord
Larry King: Recent polls show 12 percent of Americans still believe Obama is a Muslim, and 35 percent say they don’t know his religion, but to most of them it don’t matter. Should it matter?
Joel Osteen: Well, it matters to me. It matters to me that I know he loves the Lord, and I think it’s important that he has convictions from his faith. So to me, it matters when I’m making my personal decisions.
King: Does it matter to you, Victoria?
Victoria Osteen: It does. It matters to me. … I believe he is a Christian.
Krystal.
Love you heart.
I think what you are saying, is that you would prefer that we were Christians LIKE JSEUS WAS. !!!!!!!!!!!
And you would prefer we weren’t more like the Pharisees who found fault with him, every step of the way.
Oh no…. is using Paul….Stephens murderer, and no.. not the woman at the well, the Samaritan, He should have just thrown her a few crumbs..really. and the TRUE dogs unclean a bone maybe. Why would you want to actually speak to them?
Say.what that tax collector doing eating with Jesus.
now which one is the scoundrel???
You sure he is the Son of God….???
QUOTE Krystal…
13. I stand corrected for saying those who allow it aren’t at fault. However, in no way am I deffending Obama as a righteous ruler. I don’t know that he will be and honestly he probably wont be. I’m simply saying that if we as Christians are upset about abortion, homosexuality, and verious other sins, the only way to change that is to love the people doing them, accept them as Christ has accepted us with our sins, forgiving us wholy for them. To turn away from sin takes a change in the heart, not in legislation. I’m only saying that the legislation is the least of our concerns. Praying for their souls and loving and forgivingeach one of them is where our concern should be. I know that God is the judge and will judge all people justly. It’s because I know this that I am not concerned with others sin, only my own.