C Peter Wagner & Chuck Pierce Ministry in Financial Trouble, While Wagner & Pierce Caught Out In Their Lies

Thanks to Anna for letting us know about this, the latest from the C Peter Wagner/Doris Wagner/Chuck Pierce NAR camp:

“Dear Friends of Global Harvest Ministries:

At this Thanksgiving time of the year, it is common to pause and reflect over the past year. It is a time to count blessings and thank God for them and all He has brought us through. We at GHM are especially thankful for each of you. May God bless you, each and every one!

We know that for many of you this has been a year of transition and difficulty. For others it has brought uncertainty. Some have had breakthrough and great blessing, but those that have come to our attention have been few. Many have struggled with serious health issues, including Peter, Chuck and myself.

{End times note – Yet this guys went to Lakeland to a healer/miracle worker, Todd Bentley, that they promoted. And Todd Bentley is not the only alleged healer in their ranks – many promise, even guarantee, healing and some even promise immortality, or at the very least amazing youth and vigour and fitness even for the elderly as Peter and Doris Wagner certainly are both now, and their ’son’ and spiritual heir Chuck Pierce is also knocking on a bit… [see interview between Danny Steyne and Sid Roth for more on the idea of 'eternal' youth. Sid Roth thinks he is going to start looking younger and younger as a sign, bless his delusional heart. And then there is Joshua Mills' golden leaves from the tree of life that an angel gave him which he allegedly took back to the USA with him  {see here - the accompanying video also contains his Ribena trick of turning water into wine, which is just great tv] – wouldn’t Joshua Mills’ elitist ’spiritual fathers’ get first pick of these miraculous leaves?

Whatever, C Peter Wagner, Doris Wagner and Chuck Pierce also claim to be the chief apostles in a time of alleged extraordinary outpouring of signs and wonders and healing anointing – not just in Lakeland but at ‘revival hubs’ worldwide  – Toronto, Heritage, Golden Gate, Albany, Kansas City, Colorado Springs, Dudley, Belfast, Chorleywood .. etc – which is all ‘prophetically’ {in their book] leading to the manifestion of the invincible and immortal perfected Latter Rain godmen/manchild. But for all this, the leaders of this movement are obviously not healed – not even just one single one – and they struggle with ill health like everyone else, so are they lying to us – yet again?!

I do not wish ill health on anybody, and certainly am not crowing about these guys’ health problems, however much I find them repugnant spiritually, BUT my point is these guys do not practice what they preach, nor do they manifest it. I have discussed before that even though Todd Bentley claimed to live in the ’heavy weightly honey’ glory practically 24/7 and have angels all around him, he did not have a full head of hair, nor was he slim – even though he claimed the ‘anointing’ or ‘glory’ gave instant weight loss without dieting and ‘cured’ bald heads. [See this article - Walking adverts or Not for Lakeland? ]   {And it never gave him instant holiness, or cure his sexual depravity and excessive drunkeness either.]  Go figure. Shonnah Bentley, Todd’s wife and ONCE his nearest and dearest, has no left knee and had part of her lung removed  {see here for the details] - and who can forget Doris Wagner caught on camera going past Todd in her disabled cart on stage at Lakeland while Shonnah Bentley hobbled, which was laughably contradictory if it were not so weepably serious.  And then there is Michal Ann Goll, the wife of apostle James Goll,  who died of cancer weeks after returning from Lakeland with a false prophecy….

Just like the prosperity preachers cannot live out what they falsely promise [Thomas Weeks and Oral and Richard Roberts 'biting the dust' recently financially, {see ORU lays off 100 people and Thomas Weeks Church evicted ]- not the last of this lot to fall by any means – let us not forget the Elijah List which sent out an urgent begging letter in September asking for ’seeds’ so they can carry on ‘ministering’. They have supposedly laid off over 25 staff already this year and had to close their ‘Christian’ bookstore etc. and this is before the credit crunch really hit… ]   Then there are the false promises of effective strategic prayer giving victory for almost anything you want  - see http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/11/10/chuck-pierce-joins-with-juanita-bynum-for-strategic-prayer-and-spiritual-warfare/ - which Chuck Pierce or any of the NAR patently cannot manifest, so the NAR healers and peddlers cannot manifest what they promise/sell as basically they are LIARS and pretenders.]

“At this writing we are all better, but Chuck and I still have a few issues with digestion and joint problems.

{So you are not all better, then!]

“However, we have been able to carry on in ministry for which we are extremely grateful. Some of you have lost employment and assets, even homes, while others (like us!) have seen retirement funds shrink.

{What, these prophets did not see it coming? Or invest wisely as a ‘wise steward’?!  After all their talk and prophecies about wealth transfer and storing up the wealth and all that?

This is what these guys were promising, at the ‘Opening the Gate of Supply’ conference they held just days ago {literally] between the 13 and 15 November at Skyway Church, in Goodyear, Arizona, a church run by ‘apostle’ Greg Brown. {The Lord rebuke you Greg for hooking up with these guys and poisoning the Phoenix metro area further.] To attend this conference was all about wealth transfer to them with US$50 a head entrance fee which is bad enough. However, they said in their advertising blurb, ‘this conference will also be available over the internet for those who cannot attend in person’. ‘Great’ some may think not being able to afford to attend, but not so great when one discovers it is the same, or almost the same fee to watch it on webcasts, and worse still if is a married couple or family watching together even on the same computer they have to pay even more! {I am not aware of any other webcasts that charge per head!] These guys are obviously not as interested in spreading their teachings to all as much as they are in making money. Their pre publicity blurb for the Wealth Conference said -

“THIS MEETING HAS BEEN TIMED BY THE LORD!  With the economic system reeling, this is a key gathering to hear what the Spirit of God is saying concerning the “Wealth War.” On  November 13-15,  we will be gathering in Phoenix  to Open the Gate of Supply and Understand the War over Wealth Transfer!

The war over the transfer of wealth is one of the most crucial of the coming days. To have unprecedented Kingdom influence throughout the world, we must have the necessary supply lines opened that favor God’s Kingdom people. To have access to those supply lines, we must first take possession and then become a wise steward that will multiply resources.

We must recognize the war over wealth includes the harvest of people and souls! With that (eternal) goal in mind, we are calling the Body of Christ together to declare an opening of the gates of supply! Our speakers include Peter Wagner (convener), Chuck Pierce, Dutch Sheets, Pat Francis, and Lance Wallnau.  Knowing that in addition to being quickened, you may need new strength to contend and go through the gates, we will have personal ministry.   {endtimes note – they are selling this personal ministry, as well as working off peoples fear/greed]   So come with a mind and heart to:

• Understand wealth strategies as we connect Earth with Heaven!   {endtimes note – I thought JESUS did that, not apostles – this is an arrogant and antichrist claim]
• Release strategies of increase!
• Learn how to contend with Mammon [contend? These guys love it not fight it!] over supply and distribution!
• Understand the war over the transfer of wealth from the tight grip of the enemy on the world’s economy into the hands of God’s Kingdom army!   {aka Joel’s Army]
• Understand how a Kingdom economy differs from a world economy!
• Discern how acquiring wealth and God’s covenant timing are related!
• Better understand the curses associated with poor stewardship!
• Receive a new strength to keep praying and prophesying for wealth transfer!
• Understand the wealth and power wars that are occurring in the earth as NATIONS realign!   [to these apostles, supposedly!]

Understanding boundaries is key! There is and will continue to be a great war over boundaries. Individuals, people groups and entire nations are vying for authority through expansion of their boundaries. What we must realize is that the greatest impetus behind this is not a need for more land—it is the want of greater supply. This is how dominion wars began ages ago, and how they will continue to rage in the coming days.”

Ok, ok, So apart from the greedy and heretical domionist thread running through this, has anyone spotted the glaring problem?  Yep, the Wagners and Chuck Pierce claim to have lost money in their investments recently, and later in this email it mentions more finanical problems. Yet they are promising to the poor punters at Goodyear something they themselves cannot manifest. This makes them liars. ‘They do not have any ’strategies of increase’  that work presently for themselves so how can these pseudo apostles ’release’ it and pass it onto others?! They offer to sell ministry so we can ‘pass through the gates’ yet they are no more through these invented gates than anyone else. Peter Wagner can keep his personal ministry. I would not even take it from him for free.]

  ”Stretching paychecks with rising prices has been a challenge.

{Oh Doris, dear, did you not go to this conference? Maybe Peter or Chuck need to personally minister to you for US$50?}

“Fear of the future has arisen in the hearts of many. This is reality across the board as we enter this holiday season.

Drastic changes in the economy as well as drastic changes in government and even society are things we all will be living with for the foreseeable future.

{‘Forseeable’? Aren’t these guys supposed to be prophets?!]

“When we take a good look at Scripture, history and the mission field,

{But not Jesus?]

“… we can take heart. God makes a way through it all and the church survives, often is purified and frequently grows.

For example, Peter and I were new Christians in the late 40s and 50s when the Bamboo Curtain slammed down in China, all the missionaries were forced out or perished with their leadership and we feared the church was decimated. As I recall there were approximately 40,000 pastors, and probably many more, imprisoned and/or slaughtered. But when the Bamboo Curtain lifted we learned that the church didn’t skip a beat. The pastors’ wives and other qualified women took the church in small groups underground and into homes and it grew dramatically. Men joined the women again in due time and the church is there in a different form, but it’s there, vibrant and thriving. God gives his people a strategy.

Peter and I have seen a lot simply because we have lived and been in ministry since the mid 1950s. Chuck Pierce is the age of our kids. We were on the mission field when the downturn began in the 60s with rebellion and social revolution. We watched as the freedom that our generation fought for was handed over to youngsters who didn’t understand or treasure what was given to them. Little by little rebellion against authority, the church and scripture, coupled with the sexual revolution, got us to where we are today, and the church now faces an uphill battle in our daily lives. What some are calling good, others see as bad.

Scripture tells us that there are at least four things that bring a curse on the land itself. We as a nation have opened ourselves up to all four of these in the last half century or so. They are idolatry (forsaking Jehovah God for the worship of other religions or things), covenant breaking (not keeping promises as a government to Native Americans, for example, but there are others also), the shedding of innocent blood (through the slaughter of 50 million aborted babies and the count is of course rising daily) and sexual perversion (fornication, adultery, gay issues, redefining of marriage, filth and pornography, sexual child abuse and exploitation, etc.).

{There is dominionist distortion here, as it is not the actual plot of land that is cursed so much but the people living on it. The land may suffer because of the people that dwell on it’s sin, as all creation suffers to a degree, but that is another thing to what the Wagners mean here.

Doris and Peter Wagner should also look within their own ranks for adultery, ‘gay issues’, idolatry, filth and exploitation – and its cover up or whitewashing which is also a sin. Add to that the breaking of God’s commands, and damnable heresy and false prophecy and a false antichrist gospel, with blasphemy and all the associated merchandising sprinkled in. And then look for the lies and yet more lies which are not hard to find. Wagners’ NAR and many of its leaders and prophets are more corrupt, spiritually and morally, than many of the ‘pagans’ with their alleged demons that the NAR do mock-warfare against!

And then we have the damnable merchandising of the saints, while the false prophets with a damnable false gospel – scripture calls them slaves of corruption - make sport in their feasting. I make no apology for including this scripture again, quoted recently re: Chuck Pierce’s ‘magic’ oils: {see here: http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/11/19/chuck-pierce-the-antichrist-snake-oil-salesman/]

2 Peter 2 from verse one onwards -

“But false prophets [Greek 'pseudoprophetes':  a spurious prophet, i.e. pretended foreteller or religious impostor - false prophet] also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly [to lead aside, introduce surreptitiously] introduce damnable [Greek 'apoleia' meaning ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal) - damnable, destruction, die, perdition, perish, pernicious ways] heresies [Greek 'hairesis': a choice, i.e. (specially) a party or (abstractly) disunion - heresy, sect] even denying [contradict, disavow, reject] the Master who bought [redeemed, purchased] them, bringing swift damnation upon themselves. Many will follow their damnable ways, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned [spoken badly of, blasphemed]; And through covetousness [greed, fraud, extortion] shall they [the false prophets and teachers] with feigned [false, artificial, fictitious, made up] words make merchandise of you [peddle their stuff to you for their own profit]: their judgment [condemnation, avenge against] from long ago is not idle, and their damnation is not asleep…

And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time…. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves [having fun, even mocking the flock] with their own deceivings while they feast [covort] with you…. promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved.”

And talking about sexual perversion and child abuse, how’s Todd Bentley doing? Or Bob Jones? Or Ted Haggard? Or Paul Cain?  Has apostle Jackson Senyonga been found innocent of the alleged child abuse?

Then we come onto the ’shedding of innocent blood’. Their own prophets have declared and advocate a large amount of killing between the prophesied civil war between the blues and greys {that is their supporters that make up Joel’s Army, and those that will not join them] with great bloodshed predicted …. of course they would say those that oppose them are not ‘innocent’ to try and justify themselves and they are only executing God’s will on earth as it is heaven as God on earth, in the manner of all the ‘great’ cult leaders. And the NAR is undoubtedly a cult though it has so infiltrated the modern western church the church don’t realise. Wake up, sleepyhead!]

“This is where Global Harvest Ministries feels God is calling us. Yes, morality has slid to a new low,

{You said it]

“some even being legalized in America,

{Yes it is disgraceful these prophets and preacher charlatans {that means you Doris and Peter and Chuck and your A-team] and their promoters {that means you Doris and Peter and Chuck] aren’t tried for fraud]

“… but neither God nor His standards have changed,

{But hey you guys are always saying God is doing a new thing with new wineskins and all that. New apostles for a new reformation with a new Revelation and New Bible as you contradict continually the ‘old’ one.  And you charge those that say that God and His word does not change have religious/divisive/critical/fearful/unbelieving spirits. Huh, I guess you changed your mind. Good, less work for me to do if so.]

“as much as the world around us tries to squeeze us into its mold.

{hah! The world has better ethics that the NAR!]

“Things are no different today than they were in Ephesus or Corinth in the days of Paul. But he did something about it. We can show the church how to break these curses over personal lives, marriages, families, churches and territories and to reclaim things bit by bit.

{The church to break the curses and to reclaim? Hang on!  {Note the domionist mindset here.] The true gospel is that individuals are redeemed from the curse when they repent and come to Christ. People are changed because they REPENT and the newly indwelling Spirit of God enables them to live holy lives, not because the church do curse breaking on their behalf and ‘reclaim’ the territories in faux spiritual warfare.]

“After all, isn’t that how you eat an elephant – one bite at a time?

{But after all these years the elephant is still there – and bigger. More than that there are a stampede of elephants as society gets even worse. So what good has third wave spiritual warfare done? It has not even cut off the proverbial elephant’s toenail! {See http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/07/08/why-third-wave-spiritual-warfare-does-not-deliver-and-is-a-con/ ] 

“God has called Global Harvest Ministries to teach principles of invading the Seven Mountains (religion, family, education, media, arts and entertainment, government and business)

{God has not called Global Harvest Ministries to teach or to do such things. He rather calls them to faith and repentence. Domionism is NOT biblical and the NAR agenda is not godly and is even overtly antichrist.]

“in such a way as to take back ground given away to Satan and grasp back the dominion God wanted His people to have in the first place (Genesis 1:26). We understand the principles of spiritual warfare, deliverance (casting out demons from individuals, societies and territories)

{You understand the ‘principles’ of casting out demons from societies and territories? Apart from where is this principle in scripture, why on earth has it not done any good then in all these years then?! What territory is clean? What territory has been gained?  In truth?

Would you cite Lakeland, Florida, under its open heaven after all that warfare done – as was proclaimed by your prophets earlier this year?  Yet this is the very same place where the man you described as a ’demonised mess’ and ‘liar and deciever’ Todd Bentley  {see here for citation: http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/08/16/c-peter-wagner-doris-wagner-on-healing-todd-bentley-a-demonised-mess/ ] later cavorted with wine, women and song and a few million bank notes and God knows what or who else…. and committed fraud in the face of millions while passing on a counterfeit Christianity and arrogantly blaspheming.   Is this your idea of a success story?!!!

Todd Bentley is the same false prophet whom C Peter Wagner and all his cronies rushed to parade just weeks before they called him this, then alikening Todd Bentley  [before the news broke of his antics] to a young John Wimber or Robert Henderson.  {See here for citation: http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/08/12/lakeland-apostolic-findings-by-c-peter-wagner-convening-apostle/]  It was also stated at that time that Peter and Doris Wagner found Todd to be a ‘wonderful individual’ and Peter even said he ran a quiet test of Todd’s humility {!] and for his respect for authority and discovered to his delight after the test – “We were on the same page! In fact, we like each other!”

So by his own testimony, C Peter Wagner says that ‘demonised messes, liars and decievers’ are on the same page as him and he likes them, and they pass his tests. Yep, I’d agree with that judging by who is ‘aligned’ to Wagner.]

“{We understand the principles of….] prophecy (how to work with God in what he is doing at a given time in history),

{A strange definition of prophecy here, distorted for their own purposes for they claim to be the prophets and we obey them and work for their agendas which is allegedly working for God, right?

And as for their prophecy, it is abysmally inaccurate so they understand nothing.]

{We understand the principles of….] power ministries (prayer for healing the sick and other miracles),

[And yet where is this manifestation of power, of healing, or miracles? There were no verified healings at Lakeland either, the NAR showcase. Hmm.

And in the very same email that we hear this claim, we 'hear' the coughing and spluttering, the creaking and cracking of joints, and the wind and gas being passed in the background among the gruesome threesome.]

“… intercession (prayer and warfare to help change things)

{Which has in practice changed absolutely nothing]

“and the apostolic government of the church (how to set things in order and to bring righteousness and holiness back into God’s house).

{How can the proposed self-appointed apostolic government, under the power-hungry would-be tyrant C Peter Wagner, be a) the apostolic government of the church seeing as they are false apostles and b) bring righteousness and holiness back into God’s house when they are not righteous or holy – or even hold normal worldly standards of honesty and decency?]

“We will be spending this year going back to the basics in all of these areas in our seminars (with enhanced webcasting opportunities)

{Enhanced money making opportunities, more like, don’t kid us this is about helping the chuch! At US$75 a pop! {see here for example http://gloryofzion.org/mp3store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idProduct=201]

“… conferences (including more deliverance teaching)

{“Teacher, deliver yourself” is appropiate here…]

“… and Wagner Leadership Institute practical training sessions.

{Money, money, money. After all, their investments are suffering, right?]

“We are more determined than ever to work as hard as we can so long as we have life and breath, to help remedy the situation in which we find ourselves. The worst thing the church can do in these uncertain,

{I thought you were prophets? You claim on the Elijah List et al to know what’s going to happen, and sell prophecies and conferences along these lines far ahead. And what of Chuck Pierce and Robert Heidler’s Issachar School, http://gloryofzion.org/mp3store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idProduct=201 named after the men who knew the times.   They are clearly claiming THEY know the times and seasons, Chuck Pierce even says it is key – so someone is lying – yet again.

If you are so uncertain about the times, Doris Wagner, perhaps you should purchase Chuck Pierce’s ‘anointed’ teaching – after all he will not give it away for free so might not have let on he knew really the times when you were writing this email – {see http://gloryofzion.org/mp3store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=160 and http://gloryofzion.org/mp3store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=158 ] and then you might be certain of what is to come?! Or maybe not given his track record. He only seems to get it right when he prophesies after the event. 

Or maybe you could ask Patricia King’s pet prophet Jason Westerfield to do some more spying during his ‘astral travels’ [he claims to have remote-viewed secret White House meetings], or ask John Crowder to bilocate to the future, so you could be ‘certain’?  Or do you not believe either of them either?

But anyway, in truth no times are ‘certain’ as far as man’s perspective is concerned. The Bible knows that. But what is certain is our faith in God, and our hope if we continue steadfastly to the end in the biblical faith.]

“… and even discouraging times is to give up, or to roll over and play dead

{What just because you have lost some money? Are you really such people of straw?]

“…. and go down in defeat. We must rise up, armed and equipped to defeat that which is attempting to dominate us. We are the ones who must set out to obey God and take dominion.

{Obey God? Since when does the NAR care about obeying God? For they break many of His commands, and contradict many of His words, and rebel against many of His ways and hate His truth and declare war on His true servants.  God does not command the church to take the kind of dominion the Wagners desire! All this agenda only belongs to the antichrist.]

“It will take all of us: men and women, boys and girls, young and old, rich and poor, and red, yellow, black and white.

We are in a very tenuous financial situation these days, and need your help for this job. Frankly, we pray from payroll to payroll and from mortgage payment to mortgage payment. We do not have reserves.

{Except the retirement fund you mentioned earlier that had dwindled, so which is it, for that is a ‘reserve’? And even if you did not have reserves, do you not recall Jesus words about ‘do not worry…’?]  

“Other Christian ministries in our area have had massive layoffs. We are down to the smallest crew we can have and still carry on. We are constantly on an austerity program, and are very careful with our spending.

{I guess you are being affected like everybody else by the credit crunch. But you need to Understand how a Kingdom economy differs from a world economy!   I guess that was all hooey, eh? I knew it, but you admit you don’t believe or manifest what you teach.

Wealth Stategies not working, huh? Commands not being listened to, huh? Contending with Mammon not working? I guess you need to ‘Receive a new strength to keep praying and prophesying for wealth transfer while you use the strategies of increase!’]          

 ”We are asking you to invest in this proposed program for 2009. 

{Note now it is PROPOSED only. That means these prophets and apostles do not know in advance what 2009 will bring anymore than anyone else, despite their claims…]

“Please give your most generous gift possible to help.

{Ah here it comes, the appeal for MONEY, Tsk Tshk, Doris really should have gone to that conference or taken notes and should use these strategies…..]

“Please pray for us as we move forward.

{I pray you and your awful associates come to repentence and faith.]

“We love you …

{Not me, as is evident between my past interchanges with the NAR!]

“… and are so very grateful to have you for our friends. Together let us thank God for who He is and for giving us His Son and Holy Spirit! May you be blessed with a multitude of things for which to be thankful this Thanksgiving season.

Sincerely,

(Peter, Chuck) and Doris”

{When have these guys ever been ’sincere’? Perhaps once they were. But no more. How Satan has corrupted their heart – repent, I say repent!]