“We live in extraordinary times. The 21st Century is already shaping up to be a quantum leap from the 20th Century around the globe. We now live in the Second Apostolic Age in which the biblical government of the church has come alive once again. The Holy Spirit has begun speaking to the churches about taking dominion of God’s creation as God originally intended us to do. Our 20th Century goal of saving souls and multiplying churches has been expanded to aim for nothing less than transforming our society.

“Along with all of these mega-changes is the impending fulfillment of God’s promises through His prophets for the great transfer of wealth. My sense is that we are looking at unbelievable quantities of wealth moving from the control of the kingdom of darkness to the control of the kingdom of God.”

- C. Peter Wagner, “Kingdom Philanthropy” (6/12/05)

Just a quick comment to your comment that God is the righteous judge and we should only be praying for “these men of God”…

You discern every spirit and test the spirits NOT by asking a demon “hey, do you believe that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh…”

You discern a spirit and test a spirit by ascertaining whether or not the teaching or the words spoken line up with God’s word. Miriam could correct me here, but I don’t believe in such a simpleton’s viewpoint on how to “discern the spirits” was intended by John when he wrote that.

Rather, I think he meant to do what the Berean Jews did when they first heard Paul preach… they took Paul’s words to the test of Scripture.

As for only God judging… uh… what bible are you reading Jael?

The Bible tells us that the only people we are not to judge are those sinners on the outside of the church.

Those on the inside, WE ARE THE JUDGES.

Quit watering down the word and making it all “nicey nice.” It’s not. Love is not sentimental, it is justice and power and true and kind. But not saccharin. And Love does not hesitate to snatch some from the fire when it can.

None of us deserve repentence. But God’s kindness brings us to repentence.

You don’t get it. I am not condoning Strang and have said previously what I think about him and his associates. I also have said that many of their ways are damnable.

But I still would not say “may he rot in hell”. I will say the path some are on is to hell but for that I will not shout “may he rot” but instead “may he repent!”

It is obvious that you do not appreciate the sins of Stephen Strang and it’s not just his love of money but by his inactions, greed and selfishness he has caused many to be deceived and go into the clutches of the enemy and for that he will pay a terrible price as expressed in the word of God by Eli’s rebuke of his sons:

1 Samuel 2:22 Now Eli was very old; and he heard everything his sons did to all Israel, and how they lay with the women who assembled at the door of the tabernacle of meeting.
2:23 So he said to them, “Why do you do such things? For I hear of your evil dealings from all the people.
2:24 “No, my sons! For it is not a good report that I hear. You make the LORD’S people transgress.
2:25 “If one man sins against another, God will judge him. But if a man sins against the LORD, who will intercede for him?” Nevertheless they did not heed the voice of their father, because the LORD desired to kill them.

And the LORD did kill them? Sons of disobedience who have be warned and rebuked many times don’t deserve repentance but the fires of hell. Read what God Himself said about them:

Proverbs 1:20 Wisdom calls aloud outside;
She raises her voice in the open squares.
1:21 She cries out in the chief concourses,
At the openings of the gates in the city
She speaks her words:
1:22 “How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity?
For scorners delight in their scorning,
And fools hate knowledge.
1:23 Turn at my rebuke;
Surely I will pour out my spirit on you;
I will make my words known to you.
1:24 Because I have called and you refused,
I have stretched out my hand and no one regarded,
1:25 Because you disdained all my counsel,
And would have none of my rebuke,
1:26 I also will laugh at your calamity;
I will mock when your terror comes,
1:27 When your terror comes like a storm,
And your destruction comes like a whirlwind,
When distress and anguish come upon you.
1:28 “Then they will call on me, but I will not answer;
They will seek me diligently, but they will not find me.
1:29 Because they hated knowledge
And did not choose the fear of the LORD,
1:30 They would have none of my counsel
And despised my every rebuke.
1:31 Therefore they shall eat the fruit of their own way,
And be filled to the full with their own fancies.
1:32 For the turning away of the simple will slay them,
And the complacency of fools will destroy them;
1:33 But whoever listens to me will dwell safely,
And will be secure, without fear of evil.”

Jude 1:3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
1:4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.
1:5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.

1:12 These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; 1:13 raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever

We talk about eternity and often do not think that out, because our imagination cannot perceive eternity. Let’s make a little story to help our imaginations.

Let’s say there is a hardened steel ball 3′ in diameter, sitting on a pedestal. Each year, a dove flies by and brushes a wing on it. By the time that steel ball is worn away to nothing, not even the first morning of eternity will have passed.

No, there is no person I want to see that happen to. DasvWms

>>so may he rot in hell

No! No! No! Oh it grieves me to hear this. Never. Jesus died to save Him. Perhaps he will end up in hell, but NEVER will I say “may anyone” – even my worst enemy – rot in hell. May they repent!

Are you a son of thunder?

Very true, its amazing look at there book endorsements. The same people all the time. If you have Jim Goll or a Bill Johnson on your book it will sell and each ministry will inside of NAR will stock it.

But…….
I never hear of the well-know speaking about them. I’m talking about the true pastors, prophets of God. I never read great write-ups or reviews of their meetings or busines from these ministers.

If they get great write-ups or wonderful reviews it’s from God T.V., Stephen Strange, Chrisima magazine, or each others articles or web-sites. (Chuck Pierce, c. peter wagner, Bob Jones, Rickey Joyner, etc….. the ones on their payroll or bandwagon. Those that speak at their outrageously priced conferences. They are also NAR’s false prophets, false teachers. Like ones, blind leading blind. They are the ones promoting each other.

Those that are being paid to promote them as they make money and promote themselves are just lying gready people. I see their angle. But in the case of Chrisima Magazine (I can’t figure) the man stated he has serious problems with Todd Bentley, yet he still promotes a person he knows is a phoney? Go figure? I can’t figure out what Stephen Strange is reaping from this? Is he afraid all his NAR’ie buddies will get mad at him? That would be a good thing Stevie from where I sit and look at the situation. A good way out of this mega problem of false mess they have created I’d say!

For what it’s worth, Church stay away from them! The Bible tells us not to fear them, but to have NO Fellowship with them at all!

It’s time we in the church dis-fellowshipped them. Turn them over to be sifted, in hopes that there will be restoration. Let them fall. They have decieved far to many as it is. I pray those that have been decieved will come to the knowledge of the Truth In Jesus Christ!

Blessings,
Sherry

Dr. Pat Francis who believes in the transfer of wealth theology and has spoken with Peter Wagner! She is in bed with John Arnott and is going to be a speaker at their Pastors and Leaders Conference – Changing Cities and Nations Pastors and Leaders Conference – Changing Cities and Nations January 20-23, 2009 Toronto,

But TACF lied when they stated about Dr. Pat Francis
Through her local and international ministries has reached millions of people with the message and mission of hope. Dr. Pat is a graduate of the University of the West Indies in the medical field of Radiography. She is also a Certified Psychotherapist and holds two Masters degrees and a Doctorate from Christian Life School of Theology, Columbus, GA. She was awarded an Honorary Doctorate in Pastoral Counseling.
http://www.tacf.org/tacforghome/Events/Futureconferences/PastorsandLeaders09/tabid/795/Default.aspx

Evanglist Gordon Williams (http://gordwilliams.com/) comments about Pat Francis and John Arnott are to be noted as they refute TACF’s lie:

I have known Pat Francis ever since she started her ministry in a mid-week house meeting. Her educational qualifications are not what she claims. First of all, she became a member of the Evangelical Church Alliance Ministerial Fellowship and completed the Correspondence Course so she could be ordained. If she took a course in radiology that simply means that she is a technician. She is not a credited Psychotherapist licensed to practice in Canada. The Christian Life School of Theology is not an accredited school. It looks like it is one of 3 schools on the same location. She certainly is not a Certified Psychotherapist because that takes a long and supervised education for many years through a recognized Medical School. I checked out the Christian Life School of Theology which is not a certified school and it’s courses are not that good. Her degrees from the Christian School of Theology were probably done on-line and had no real university or seminary level education value. It amounts to a fraudulent education. Honorary degrees mean nothing except to puff up a pastor’s ego and make him or her’s self-importance get exaggerated into full fledged pride.

Proof of this seen in her involvement with John Arnott . I am never impressed with people who want to tell us about the “millions” of people whom they have reached through their so-called ministries when there are so many more casualties caused by their leadership.

The transfer of wealth theology is just another of those of whom Jesus warned have allowed “the cares of the world and the delight in riches“ (Matt. 13: 22) choke the word. Prosperity teaching/gospel ends up in hell (Jas. 5: 1 – 6). The vultures (sometimes translated eagles) always gather together to prey upon the body (Matt. 24: 28)They are not greedy for souls to be saved, people to receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, Healing and deliverance and needs to be met.

Besides making a lot of noise and smoke if you analyze the churches or people that are involved with Rick, Wagner, Todd or Arnott, they are not a huge number and mostly deceived impressionable youth!

Unlike Benny Hinn and TBN, the Third Wave cannot even support Television programs but rely on paid conferences, mass mailing and Internet! They have a bigger image of themselves and their importance then they really are. As a matter of fact they are nothing and very few of the news media every writes nice things about them but most bad things which are true about them!

Mat 24:35-36 NASB “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away. (36) But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.”

The first sin from satan was: pride! He wanted to be like God. And he is poisoning the world and the church (at least that of Joyner) with it. We have to be servants of the most High God! People like Joyner want to reign as kings now.

Satan used the same strategy when he met Jesus in the desert…’if you bow for me, all these kingdoms (and authority) are yours NOW’.
Jesus didn’t fall in the trap. He knew that He first had to be a servant, laying down His life and had to die. Then the Father would give Him the authority, He would not take it himself.

Satan is using the same message today: ‘you (church) can have the kingdoms now, you are gods, you have authority’.

We have to be humble and not acting like those superapostles. Paul warned the church in Corinthe for those superapostles (2 Cor. 10 and 11). They are full of pride and boasting about their works and teachings.

David, the anointed one, who had quite a long battle with the anointed one and rebellious one, King Saul, prayed quite a few destructive prayers about his enemies? And the nice part is the God answered them.

Jude 1:5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.

Well I am not a friend but a enemy of deceivers, false prophets and unbelievers, such as Peter Wagner and Rick Joyner who use the dumb sheep for their own advantage. My prayer for them and their friends in Jesus name is “Let them be like chaff before the wind, And let the angel of the LORD chase them. Let their way be dark and slippery, And let the angel of the LORD pursue them. Let destruction come upon him unexpectedly. Let destruction come upon them unexpectedly. Let them all be destroyed and speedily!”

You may want to do some research on what Rick Warren and the Emergent Church have in common.