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Cal Pierce Recommends Removal of Minds

Comment by ‘Broken’ I wanted to flag up as it is very interesting.

“Here is my experience with Cal Pierce that might be helpful in understanding the nature of his schemes. Back in 2006 Cal purchased an old floral warehouse next door to his Healing Rooms in Spokane, WA and proceeded to renovate it into their new House of Prayer center.

The small non-denominational church I once attended was “chosen” to partner with the Healing Rooms and host Sundays in their new House of Prayer. They, of course, jumped at this because they never had their own building throughout their 20+ year history. I don’t blame them, who wouldn’t pass up the opportunity of such a grand undertaking as being apart of Cal Pierce’s ministry? (*cough*) Though I love them to death, I sorrow at how they have gradually been swept away into the vain grandeur of it all.

During a period of unemployment I volunteered as part of the renovation team that gradually transformed the old warehouse into a big hunk of posh. By the end of the construction they had a bookstore, a café, a huge carpeted and decked out sanctuary, and a huge expensive print of child prodigy Akiane’s ‘The Prince of Peace’ … not to mention a host of other gaudy decorations.

I wasn’t so much bothered by how posh it looked, but more along the lines of how much money they spent to fully renovate the warehouse into a “House of Prayer” (huge air conditioning/heating units alone were insanely expensive). In my mind, all that’s needed for a house of prayer is a group of saints and a roof over their heads. But instead this guise of “House of Prayer” was used to build a money making/American attracting conference center for Cal Pierce’s ambitious visions. All this money could have gone to the poor and needy throughout the world, actual Kingdom work! But people somehow think that this House of Prayer is Kingdom work.

While I don’t know the exact total, and wouldn’t say it if I knew, my former church was expected to dish up a large down payment to be the host church. My former church was rather poor throughout the years, but a few affluent families within the church kept it going. And somehow, they were able to dish out this down payment, and then some.

I thought this was ridiculous that people were paying deep out of their pockets for the overhead costs of Cal’s project – instead of for the needs of the church. It almost seemed like usury to expect a church to pay that much just to gain the status of being the host church in Cal’s House of Prayer. But I know that they weren’t the only ones, because somehow Cal was conjuring up the money for this immense project. And then I realized that the proceeds from Cal’s “Spiritual Hunger Conference” (hosted annually in Spokane) was a good source of revenue for this and other projects. They would rent the Spokane Conference Center, pack upwards of 8000+ people from all around the Pacific Northwest (all who paid a decent fee to get in), and then bring in big-name false prophets like Bill Johnson and the likes. The money they made from this conference was and is insane. The worst part was listening to people say each year, “this conference changed my life!” How? All they heard was heretical prosperity teachings combined with Bill Johnson’s heretical supernatural teachings.

In the last conference everyone had to listen to a guy banter about how God was going to (hadn’t yet) make him a millionaire through his amateur photography business. If spiritual hunger involves being desperate enough to pay to listen to false prophets and prosperity clowns, then something is terribly wrong.

Anyway, as my former church was gradually swept away into this, they changed. Throughout their history, as far as I know of, they never preached the prosperity gospel. But the moment they partnered with Cal, they somehow now needed to start conjuring up the funds and so they became converted to the prosperity gospel. Each time tithe is taken, they recite a thick prosperity gospel prayer. And my former pastor does this silly line by saying that we are only now capable of praying the first part of this prayer, and that we aren’t even ready to ascend into the thicker parts of the prayer. I guess this means we have to be phased into the prosperity mindset?

The thing is, I love my former church to death, and have nothing against them personally, but I really think they’ve been duped by Cal in a number of ways (and it’s impossible to tell them so). I recently went to one of their services, and they had a cameo appearance from Cal who preached a brief sermon on the “removal of our minds” (instead of the “renewal of our minds”). He literally claimed that renewal meant removal. Then he led everyone in a guided prayer of laying our hands on our head for the “removal of our minds”. I just about gagged right then and there. And then my former pastor got up and said there is no way he could top that. Yeah, no kidding! Cal wants us to remove our minds! Who can possible top that?

I don’t know what to think. There is so much more I could say about the gradual changes that have taken place in my former church, but I just can’t stand going there any longer and listening to the vanity and garbage of Cal’s ministry that has hijacked my former church. How many more good churches are falling to these wolves? How many people are removing their minds and just following along? Please Lord, would you please come now?”

January 4, 2009 - Posted by endtimespropheticwords | Bill Johnson, Cal Pierce, False Prophets and Teachers, Healing, Healing rooms, IHOP, John G Lake, New Apostolic Reformation (NAR), Prophecy, Prosperity Gospel/Seed Faith | , , , | 44 Comments

44 Comments »

  1. In reading this article, it makes one think “Do people leave their brains at the door?” Removal of our minds sounds like getting into contemplative prayer.

    I am sure if they are not doing practicing that, it will only be a matter of time.

    God help us all.

    Comment by Inlovewithjesus | January 5, 2009

  2. Satan wants to remove our brains because if we stop using our minds (which is the seat of our rational Spirit, where the Holy Spirit resides — look it up in the concordance) — if Satan can get us to stop thinking and understanding our Salvation and the Cross etc., then we have lost our Free Will in Christ.

    This is horrifyingly Satanic. And Satan through Cal Pierce is giving away his hand of how he will brainwash people in Delusion.

    Comment by AriseMyLove | January 5, 2009

  3. I have a blog post about one of my 2 visits to the Healing Rooms in Spokane. My first visit was actually their first Sat. night ’service’ in the new floral center. The renovation was still in progress. My second visit was when Patricia King was visiting (she’s taller than I realized!). I didn’t have quite as much discernment then, but a lot of it seemed ‘off’ — so I haven’t been back. Interesting info.

    Comment by Cia Watson | January 5, 2009

  4. Looks like Cal already had his removed….

    Comment by UnprofitableServant | January 5, 2009

  5. Jesus said to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. If you remove your mind – you can’t love Him fully.

    Comment by Javanut | January 5, 2009

  6. Cia

    >>I have a blog post about one of my 2 visits to the Healing Rooms in Spokane

    Can you link to it, or better still copy and paste here?

    Comment by endtimespropheticwords | January 5, 2009

  7. Well, thanks for flagging this up. I hope people will take note of what’s going on. To be fair, when Cal called for the removal of our minds he did say that we should then fill Christ’s mind in its place. The problem with that is that there is nothing biblical about it. We are all redeemed individuals in Christ’s kingdom, not assimilated Christ robots. The Holy Spirit is supposed to renew our minds to transform and purge us from sin and death, not remove it as if our minds are just worthless ashes. And yet what Cal calls Christ’s mind is nothing more than accepting and going along with all of Cal’s heresies and more. He never mentioned the process of sanctification, he was just preaching one of those hoorah “we’re God’s army” sermons and we need to remove our minds so that God can work through us. It almost seems like the psychology of military boot camp and cults that breaks people down and builds them into controlled groupthink (all in the name of unity). I think that is what opens many good Christians up to deceiving spirits. Anyway, let’s all be praying for our fellow Christians who are being deceived in this manner.

    Comment by Broken | January 5, 2009

  8. Here’s some interesting info on ‘groupthink’ from its wikipedia article:

    In order to make groupthink testable, Irving Janis devised eight symptoms that are indicative of groupthink (1977).

    1. Illusions of invulnerability creating excessive optimism and encouraging risk taking.
    2. Rationalising warnings that might challenge the group’s assumptions.
    3. Unquestioned belief in the morality of the group, causing members to ignore the consequences of their actions.
    4. Stereotyping those who are opposed to the group as weak, evil, disfigured, impotent, or stupid.
    5. Direct pressure to conform placed on any member who questions the group, couched in terms of “disloyalty”.
    6. Self censorship of ideas that deviate from the apparent group consensus.
    7. Illusions of unanimity among group members, silence is viewed as agreement.
    8. Mindguards — self-appointed members who shield the group from dissenting information.

    Groupthink, resulting from the symptoms listed above, results in defective decision making. That is, consensus driven decisions are the result of the following practices of groupthinking:

    1. Incomplete survey of alternatives
    2. Incomplete survey of objectives
    3. Failure to examine risks of preferred choice
    4. Failure to reevaluate previously rejected alternatives
    5. Poor information search
    6. Selection bias in collecting information
    7. Failure to work out contingency plans.

    Comment by Broken | January 5, 2009

  9. Broken: Our world runs on groupthink. That’s why holidays were invented. Jesus was the great tester of groupthink and you can read all about it. The groupthink of Jesus’s day sees this plain, low class guy from the back of beyond with a fishy family story luring and turning the people against them. They are going to be out of a job! why? not because of what he’s saying but because of the signs and wonders. The healings and miracles. How are you gonna argue with that? Can you even imagine challenging the Jewish elite of that day. Jesus challenged the groupthink and I think we should do likewise.

    Comment by Canadanorth | January 6, 2009

  10. Hi Miriam — here’s a link to my blog post mentioned above:

    http://eft-sw.blogspot.com/2007/11/spiritual-pyromaniacs.html

    Since I linked to a couple of things within the article, I’m not sure how it’d translate if I cut & pasted it here. I’ll give it a shot (below)– feel free to delete it if it doesn’t come through right.

    Thursday, November 15, 2007
    Spiritual Pyromaniacs
    I’d mentioned in an earlier post that I had been watching the ‘Let Us Reason’ website for updates on the Healing Rooms, here in Spokane, Washington (and elsewhere). I then said that’d wait for another blog posting, and here it is. Part of the reason I was looking for those updates was because I had found the Healing Rooms website, and saw that they had Sat. evening ’services’ for their ACTS ministries.

    I attended a couple of those services, and had the opportunity to say hello to Michelle, Cal Pierce’s wife, before one of those services. The service isn’t exactly like a traditional church service, they were more of an update on the travels of Cal and crew, or their plans for the ACTS ministry. There’s some live music before the service, and some of that music left me a little uneasy. It was the unscriptural lyrics to at least 1 song that convinced me that ministry wasn’t the place for me, so I haven’t been back there since a few months ago. And the long, drawn-out songs during ‘worship’ reminded me of a live Grateful Dead concert I listened to on the radio back in the late 1970’s or early 1980’s. Repeating the same notes or words over and over for several minutes. Not my ‘bag’, as they used to say.

    However, I’m now reading an article by Jackie Alnor, titled the same as this blog posting. In the article she writes about something called ‘fire tunnels’ as below:

    And now in Toronto John Arnott’s young people are involved in some of the scariest spreading of this fire onto other young folks who come looking for a spiritual jolt. They call this ceremony “fire tunnels” in which two rows of young people line up while a group of blessing-seekers go single file down the middle. As they proceed into the tunnel, shouts of “Fire” and “Fire on you” come out of the mouths of the imparters as they touch the seekers’ heads and foreheads in order to spread the fire. As they do, the recipients of these fire spirits jolt and jump around with some pretty scary looks on their faces. (To see this in action – go to these links at TACF:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-4pyiYAlzg
    ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_ErxBdAm8M )

    When I was at the first of the 3 meetings I attended at ACTS ministries, rather than doing their usual (?) prayer for people at the end of the service, they did one of these same ‘fire tunnels’ !! I had no idea what they were, but given that I’d been researching this spiritual warfare issue for a while AND remembering the following passage of scripture –
    (1Ti 5:22 KJVA) Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men’s sins: keep thyself pure.

    I said a silent prayer before I went through this line, since I’d never done this before and didn’t know any of those people. I prayed asking God to keep me safe from any unclean spirit that those touching me may attempt to send my way, asking for this protection in Jesus name. So as I went through this line most people used the word ‘blessing’ when touching my forehead or shoulder, and one woman said something and then while she was touching me she started shaking uncontrollably. Her teeth were chattering, she was shaking so hard, she had to let go of me to make it stop. There were people laid out on the floor at the end of the line, another first for me. I was fine, I walked over to the chair where I’d left my Bible, picked it up and went home.

    So while I do believe in the ‘gifts of the spirit’ and attend a local Calvary Chapel church, I also know that it is written that one of the ‘fruits of the spirit’ is self-control. Uncontrollable shaking and/or being laid out on the floor, and similar things are not of God’s Spirit.

    The reason I went there in the first place was primarily as a possible avenue for networking for EFT. The article by Jackie is additional confirmation for me that I made the right decision in steering clear of that ministry. Discernment is so important, since there are places where they can use some of the right words and it sounds like it’s all full of the ‘light of truth’ when it’s really just the opposite.

    Comment by Cia Watson | January 6, 2009

  11. I have been to Toronto and know that many of these things you are speaking about are indeed of God. No, not scamming, gold dust, and such but the Spirit of God is not in a box.
    Lay hands suddenly on no man, doesn’t that mean commissioning for service or ministry? Like what they did in Lakeland to Todd B, that was laying hands suddenly on him and partaking of his sins. But fire tunnels are just people having fun in the glory. There is a real glory that people have experienced at Toronto, that is why now there is a counterfeit. So don’t say everything that happens there is not of God or the devil, because that is not true.

    I have experienced a whole lot of good from the Holy Spirit at Toronto and other places. Yeah, now it is way off in most places but at first things were really good. It was just God moving.

    Be careful in what you condemn. Condemn righteously I guess, meaning that you should not condemn everything that goes on there to be of the devil.

    I have been blasted by fire at some meetings and it was nothing other than the baptism of fire of the Holy Ghost.
    At other times I have been blasted by the flesh.

    But I love the Holy Ghost and thank Him for what He did for me at Toronto. I will never deny Him and what He did for me there: healed me, delivered me, and strenghtened me. I do not go to a NAR church now but recently went to one. There was no anointing there at all. The pastor prophesied that some people in the 100-person crowd would become famous preachers. I cringed at that because most people in the crowd will now think that is them. And I don’t think it was a prophecy from the Lord. But the first time I went to this same church a few years back God moved. True prophecies were given and the service was pure. I left edified. So people and churches change and become corrupt in one way or another. But they didn’t start out that way.

    You can lambast me all you want for loving what God did at Toronto back in 1994 and 1995, but I do not care. I love the moving of the Spirit and will always defend it as God. Some things I cannot defend now, that is true. But not all is evil in the river. Not all. But it is growing corrupt yes. But I thank the Holy Ghost for moving at the beginning of it years ago.

    I do thank God for the good that was there but hate the goofiness going on there now alot.

    Comment by IloveHispeace | January 7, 2009

  12. >> people having fun in the glory.

    What is wrong with this expression? Discuss.

    Comment by endtimespropheticwords | January 7, 2009

  13. 5:22 Lay hands suddenly on no man. The meaning is that no man must be ordained to office until his fitness is surely known.

    All the old commentators, and the great majority of modern ones, applies this to ordination.”

    Neither be partaker of other men’s sins. He who appoints an unfit man to office becomes in a certain sense responsible for that man’s sins.

    Keep thyself pure. Free from the sins of other men.

    Wesley’s Notes

    5:22 Lay hands suddenly on no man – That is, appoint no man to church offices without full trial and examination; else thou wilt be accessary to, and accountable for, his misbehaviour in his office. Keep thy self pure – From the blood of all men.

    Comment by IloveHispeace | January 7, 2009

  14. IloveHispeace, you really need to think about what you’re saying… does bad fruit grow on good trees? We make the true moving of the Holy Spirit (which historically has always convicted people of hidden sin and led them to a life of holiness) nill when we claim that charismatic revivals are moves of the Holy Spirit. I see no true fruit of repentance and transformation coming out of these movements… they simply make people goosebump junkies. I’ve experienced a good chunk of the charismatic world, including the Toronto outpouring, and I know that there is something definitely spiritual going on at Toronto and in fire-tunnels etc, but people have for a long time errantly associated goosebumps and tingly spiritual feelings automatically with God. Emotions are the most prone part of mankind to deception, and the enemy plays them like harp-strings. I really believe that when the Holy Spirit moves, the logical mind leads while emotions follow. Most charismatic revivals put the cart before the horse in this matter. I won’t bash you at all for what you’ve experienced, because what you’ve experienced were legitimate experiences, but I will challenge you to look deeply for true righteous fruit and think seriously on whether God Almighty would be as capricious as He supposedly acts in these meetings. We really need to accurately define what glory is … as Todd and others have raped and destroyed this word. Whatever happened to the unapproachable light of God’s glory that no sinner can stand in the presence of? Why is glory muddled into a tingly capricious drunken feeling?

    Comment by InChrist4Ever | January 7, 2009

  15. The videos of the “fire tunnels” and the entire room for that matter were grievous and creepy for me to watch. There was an ungodly, disrespectful, carnival atmosphere in the room. And if people weren’t “cavorting about” they had the look of bored zombies or stoners. I used to go to services like this only the name was different. We didn’t call it fire tunnels but partook of the same demonic spirit. I now know better. I can no longer say I was “having fun in the glory” like it is some alien substance we all wallow around in and laugh and revel drunkenly, with total disregard for the true presence and character of God Himself. If I am ever “in the glory” I think I would be on my face in worship and awe of HIM.

    Comment by DoubleGrace | January 7, 2009

  16. having fun in the glory means just what it says. when the Spirit moves and you feel led to dance, dance. if you feel led to shout, shout. if you feel led to run, run. if you feel led to laugh, laugh. if you feel led to cry, cry,

    mainly it means being open to the Spirit, the true Spirit of God.

    i’ve cried in meetings and laughed, but still walked in caution. i’ve been ministered to in the flesh as well and it stinks just as much as hindering the Spirit does.

    you are right on with many of your comments and blogs but some of it is not. there is a true glory of God that falls and is lovely, pure, and awesome.

    Comment by IloveHispeace | January 7, 2009

  17. Interesting what I was reading here about groupthinking. Interesting because there are many christian organisations who use that. I heard of something new from Youth with a Mission, NIKO. I think it is groupdynamics to change people, ‘christian characetr training’. Is a kind of breakthrough training , in Holland we have it to, from ACCD/Momentus (http://www.accdeurope.org/index.php?lang=en, or http://www.accd.org/) It comes from the US, Momentus, http://www.momentus-breakthrough.org/
    It looks like NLP.

    This is very wrong. ACCD has breakthrough-weekends and they do no tell you what to expect, it’s secret. Once I spoke someone who had done the training. She said she could not tell what they were doing there, but when I told her I would never go there, she told me some of the exercises. One is ‘lifeboat’. Do some research and you will find out that it is satanic, and not biblical.

    Groupsdynamic is very strong and I saw it used also in charismatic settings…

    Comment by Ruitje | January 7, 2009

  18. Interesting what is mentioned abou groupthinking. That is something that is used a lot in the charismatic and christian world. I know of ACCD (in Holland), that comes from the US (Momentus ACCD). It is about christian charactre building but it is dangerous, because it uses groupdynamics and NLP.

    Youth with a Mission also used is (breakthrough) and is giving something new called NIKO. When I read about it, it makes me think about ACCD/Momentus. (http://www.momentus-breakthrough.org/)

    It is dangerous because it is not focused on the transforming work of the Holy Spirit (though they mention ‘God’) but on groupdynamics and manipulation in the group.

    A lot of technisc from groupdynamics is used in the christian world. And that is dangerous because it is satanic.

    Comment by Ruitje | January 7, 2009

  19. And it is satanic because it makes people ‘robots’. They are not free to think and choose what they want…

    Comment by Ruitje | January 7, 2009

  20. IloveHispeace

    I did not ask what you meant by “having fun in the glory” – I am well aware of what it means as well as also the associated practices of fire tunnels and so on. I asked people what was wrong with that statement. You evidently do not see why that expression is so at odds with what the Bible teaches and why it is so griving to God and the Holy Spirit.

    You talk about the true glory, but how do you know what you experienced was truely from God? Because it felt good and was apparently in Jesus name? That is NOT the test for something’s trueness. Testing the Toronto spirits show they are far from true. And thery go back hundreds of years, not just to 1994. Furthermore the theology of the ‘glory’ is heretical Latter Rain and actually antichrist.

    Comment by endtimespropheticwords | January 7, 2009

  21. What is lifeboat Ruitje?

    Comment by endtimespropheticwords | January 7, 2009

  22. (first this, I see my two comments were places, the first one I thought was not placed in my browser, so I made a new one, now it seems double information, other text, but same info)

    About lifeboat, I heard that they have to play that the ship is sinking and there is a ‘lifeboat’ and only room for a few people of the group. Than they have to speak out who they want with them in that boat, and who not and why. That can be very confrontating and hard. You see a lot of emotion.

    The other thing is that you come in that group, the room is darkened (no daylight), no clock, so you don’t know what time it is. People get a buddy and they can not leave the breakthrough training because than they betray their buddy or the group (intimidation). And when someone wants to quit, or things go wrong in the group I heard one leader left, ’till the group solved the problem. All that time they could not eat or drink or go to sleep.

    That are just a few examples. It forces people to an emotional breakdown (they call it ‘breakthrough’). But it sounds almost like brainwashing and group pressure.
    Ever heard of Landmark training (not christian) or NLP (neuro linguisitc programming).

    In Holland there was seen documentary about Landmark, it’s Dutch, but it shows how dangerous these things are. Some tools are used in christian and charismatic courses or meetings.

    http://omroep.vara.nl/Uitzending_gemist.1877.0.html?&tx_alternetnebo_pi1programma=4037658&cHash=7bd13c514f

    Click on ‘afspelen van uitzending’.

    Comment by Ruitje | January 7, 2009

  23. I remember as a kid going to a YWAM base for some NIKO type group training for our drama evangelism team, and they would put us in these game situations where you had to think as a part of a group and accomplish the task as a group. But it was rigged in such a way as to make it impossible to win, so we’d be forced to group think till kingdom come. The leaders would get really angry and scathing when we didn’t think like they wanted. It really seemed like an ungodly military type spirit coming from them.

    Comment by David | January 7, 2009

  24. @David, thanks for telling this. Someone I know was very enthousiastic about NIKO, but when I was reading what they did and what she experienced, alarmbells started ringing…

    Comment by Ruitje | January 7, 2009

  25. That person who did NIKO was also not allowed to tell what they exactly did there… made me think of the breakthrought-training from ACCD (also used by YWAM in Holland…).

    Comment by Ruitje | January 7, 2009

  26. Hmmm, I see some postings about this groups-thinking process that is so evident in the charismatic/NAR-movement. When I read Cal Pierce’s recommendation of ‘removal of minds’, I get very, very cautious. When someone is giving me that recommendation I immediately think of not being able to give any well-founded criticism or opposition, but just unconditional obedience to the leader. So, removal of minds would be, don’t think for yourself, don’t read the Bible for yourself, don’t question anything, don’t pray for yourself, but be just obedient to every dogma of the NAR, without any opposition. That is a very scary development. If people would blindly follow this recommendation, I fear that it will end to mindless souls, serving a community without any individual beings who has a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. So, they will teach what the best way is to serve God, how to do it and that every other way is a not a serving-God way. It reminds me to a Star Trek race called the Borg. Individual people from different races are assimilated and turned into a half robotic being (zombie) in which they lose their very individuality, their identity, and their being as a specific unique race. They become drones serving a mind-hive. The hive thinks for all of the drones, what they must do and what they are. Everytime a race is threatened by the Borg, they get a specific warning that says: “We are the Borg, you will be assimilated, resistance is futile”. Fortunately we have the Word of God and His Holy Spirit and consciousness living inside of us. So if the NAR (Borg) are trying to assimilate the reasoners into their mindset, we CAN and even MUST resist.

    Comment by WatEenZooitje | January 7, 2009

  27. Here’s a link to an article in English. Our former church had a Momentus training, we didn’t participate because of the $150 price tag, and everything about it stunk of psychobabble and manipulation. I think I dodged a bullet, Its’ fruit included one woman who had to be committed to a mental hospital, and huge divisions and hurt in the church. It is evil at its’ core–the founder Daniel Tocchinni, was a former trainer for an offshoot of est, the Forum. It is a christianized copy of the same.

    Comment by Karen Butler | January 7, 2009

  28. whoops forgot the link. I was interrupted. Here we go again: http://www.equip.org/site/c.muI1LaMNJrE/b.2670831/k.BC8E/DP807.htm

    Comment by Karen Butler | January 7, 2009

  29. >>woman who had to be committed to a mental hospital

    How so? Did it trigger psychosis or something?

    Comment by endtimespropheticwords | January 7, 2009

  30. well, i know what i experienced was of God because it was God. it drew me closer to Him and did bring holiness and repentance to my life. it also produced the fear of God in me as well as the knowledge of Father as good. so what i received at the Toronto church was all good and no bad. well, there was bad but it was some pride there in some long-timers. but i experienced healing and deliverance and edification so it was God. i came home loving God more. i think the devil has fought against the movement there and been successful in deceiving people. but if you stay grounded in the Word and do not succomb to deception what can be wrong with loving the glory/presence of God. this morning i spent time in God’s presence. i just listened to two worship songs and laid on the bed thinking of God. it was a devotion time, however small, and God ministered to me. some call this soaking, i call it devotion time. i stay in the Word and don’t agree with much now in the prophetic movement but when the Holy Ghost moves and it is truly Him it is so good and great. i experienced that at Toronto. i experience the love of God and the peace of God. so the Holy Ghost did move there and Satan has now been messing with it and deceiving people with weird things. they there need to repent but God still loves them. i was deceived about things like sowing seed stuff for years but God still loved me and in time led me out of it. you think you know everything about Toronto but you don’t. it was the moving of the Spirit and the fruit i received from that moving was good and holy and pure and healthy. can’t say the same now because i have not been there in some time. but i did notice the nar church i went to last month had no annointing. but some guy/pastor did prophesy over me and it was God totally. he addresed something in my heart that is now healed. so there is deception rampant in the Toronto circles now but God is still God. he will deliver them if they listen. i think it is great to rebuke the “crap” going on now but the Holy Ghost does move and when he does it is not always the way we think. he is beyond our understanding and our ways. he is God and you are not. he can make people shake, doesn’t the word say he will shake the heavens and the earth? why can’t he fill people with joy? why is smiling ok but not holy laughter? sure some of these people like Todd Bentley were liars but most now are just deceived. some are scammers i guess.

    so i have been to Toronto and experienced God. you can tell me i didn’t but you are not God and are limited in your understanding. i was blessed so much there. and learned alot too.

    so i love the Spirit but cling to Jesus and keep in the Bible. i would go back to Toronto tomorrow if they would repent of some of the stuff they are into now. and no i do not agree with Patricia King and alot of her videos. i dont know anything about Cal either. i just know the water at Niagra used to be holy.

    Comment by IloveHispeace | January 8, 2009

  31. IloveHispeace

    You don’t know it was holy. You assume.

    I understand. I once did the same.

    But you do not understand the nature of deception. You need to test the spirits however passionate they might make you feel, however seemingly adoring of Jesus they seem to be. Deception can be far more cunning that you give it credit for.

    Please read “A Hungry Man Running After God” and please in God’s name learn the lessons – http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/05/03/a-hungry-man-running-after-god-on-amazing-spiritual-experiences/ – it demonstrates a typical case.

    Comment by endtimespropheticwords | January 8, 2009

  32. having fun in God’s presence, His glory? what is grievous about that? if God is moving in a service and the fear of Him falls and people are called to repent, amen. if God is moving in a service and people are called to pray, amen. if God is moving in a service and the Holy Ghost leads many to dance, amen. if God is moving in a service and people are called to skip around and shout “glory”, amen.

    you say the toronto people wont listen but you don’t either. you think you have it all figured out but you don’t. God moves and when He does it is wonderful.

    i will never understand why you would think being happy or joyful is grievous to God. if he moves that way in a service who are we to say, stop it now, God. we must repent every service and be serious every service. no God moves in different ways. at times it is time to laugh. at times it is time to cry. at times it is time to repent. the Holy Ghost is here to lead and guide us. let him but test all things AMEN.

    Comment by IloveHispeace | January 8, 2009

  33. I did not say being happy and joyful is grievous to God. Nor did I say having fun in God’s presence is wrong either.

    What I was saying is wrong is the lack of reverence and understanding for God’s Holy Spirit shown by some people messing about at Toronto type meetings in the fire tunnels and the other games they play in the ‘glory’ like playing catch. I know, I was in literally hundreds of such meetings, no exageration. And most of it is NOT the Holy Spirit at play.

    The true Pentecostal Outpouring is not given so you can have fun and jerk about in this ridiculous fashion, it also has very different aims and agendas …. not to mention source.

    Comment by endtimespropheticwords | January 8, 2009

  34. Hmmm, IloveHispeace I think you’re assuming endtimes is saying more than she is. No one denies genuine joy in the lord, but even most non-Christians can discern when something is really off base. Revival has ever been for the sinner, and true revival means that sinners respond positively towards God (of course, not all). But when non-believers and Christians alike call a so-called “revival” ridiculous, especially when a cop can’t discern between spiritual drunkenness and real drunkenness (long sad story), something is very wrong. I don’t doubt that God can show up in such meetings, but I think it tends to be more like Jesus wandering through a crowd of people who don’t even recognize Him except for a few faithful who truly know His voice. I’m really convinced of that, because when I’ve wandered through such crowds of spiritual drunks, I’ve felt God’s grief.

    Comment by David | January 8, 2009

  35. welll the meetings i went to were awesome back then. i felt the fear of God and the awe of God and the joy of God. i have also seen people faking it and succombing to deceiving spirits lately, especially the stacey cambell video and most of todd bentley’s antics on stage. i guess i have never been in a fire tunnel but can believe it is God. as far as reverence is concerned i felt it there but in the recent NAR church i went to i did not feel it. but i felt it there 3 years ago. so churches and people change. but the fundamental move of the Spirit in 1994 was good.

    Comment by IloveHispeace | January 9, 2009

  36. and i would also like to say that todd bentley going to marry his mistress makes me grieve so much i just want to die inside. rick joyner will be judged for such sinfulness. i do not follow these men because they have gone asstray.

    Comment by IloveHispeace | January 9, 2009

  37. Where in the bible do you see firetunnels? Did the apostles do that? Paul in Athene or Peter in Jerusalem? Did Jesus have firetunnels where his disciples had to walk throught before they were send out?

    Maybe the fire is not the fire of Glory, but the fire of judgement. Like that which Paul mentioned when he was speaking about what you use to build on the foundation of Christ…

    Comment by Ruitje | January 9, 2009

  38. It’s interesting, because many people really think that novelty in the church doesn’t have to be in the bible to be legitimate. But this flies in the face of the fact that the gospel was once and for all delivered (complete, and whole) to the saints. All that Christians need for doctrine and living is found in scripture, no more, no less. But humans can’t stand the fact that the gospel was and is whole, and think they have to continue to find out new and secret things about it: “the secret to…”, “the keys to…”, “the anointing is here, or there…” etc. It’s gnosticism rearing its endless tentacles in just another form.

    Firetunnels seem like just another form of the “dunk tank” that they had in the Toronto movement. A little room off in the corner supposedly had more anointing than the sanctuary … so go walk into the dunk tank and turn into a nutcase. I remember my childhood pastor saying that he thinks people who were partiers in their youth were more likely to blindly participate in these spiritual drunken revelries.

    Comment by David | January 9, 2009

  39. CAL PIERCE, JIM WHITE,
    MARK and PAM WALKER
    HEALING ROOMS MINISTRIES PRESENTS
    “KINGDOM STRATEGIES MARKETPLACE CONFERENCE”
    MARCH 11-14, 2009;
    SPOKANE, WA

    Purpose

    Now, more than any time in history, God is calling His army to advance into the marketplace. God is anointing His people to take His presence with them into their work places to be ambassadors of Heaven in every area of society. Our desire is that you will be transformed into His image and begin to walk in your true identity as a King and a Priest, becoming a powerful influence for HIM everywhere you go. It’s time we take back all that the enemy has stolen! It’s time we enter into the fullness of our inheritance and possess the gates of our enemies in every sphere of influence. There will be specific times of prophetic ministry and impartation from the leadership of the Healing Rooms. We believe you will leave changed, never to be the same.

    Ministry

    A major paradigm shift is occurring. Walls have been put up that have prevented us from walking into God’s plans and purposes for our life. Old mindsets and hindrances that have been holding us back from fulfilling our destiny will be broken off. God cannot pour new wine into old wineskins. God is doing a new thing, and we all need to step into His strategies of increase to advance His Kingdom. God is going to show Himself strong on behalf of those who are committed and passionate about advancing His Kingdom into every sphere of life.

    In His Presence: It’s not about us; it’s all about Him. We must walk in His anointing to move mountains in the marketplace. There will be special opportunities to enter into His secret place in worship during the week, starting with spending time in the morning with our Healing Rooms team from 9:00 to 9:45 am in the War Room. The afternoons will primarily be set up for personal ministry, visiting the Healing Rooms, and networking with each other.

    Activation: Our number one goal is that you are activated into your destiny and that your life will be impacted and transformed. There will be specific times of ministry for words of knowledge, prophecy and impartation. You will receive prayer from the leadership of the Healing Rooms. We believe your life will never be the same.

    Speakers

    Cal Pierce was a Real Estate Developer in Redding, California for 15 years when he felt God draw him and his wife, Michelle, to Washington State in November 1997. Having studied the revivals, Cal had read about John G. Lake’s ministry in Spokane. Through much prayer and a 40 day fast, Cal heard God say in February of 1999, “There’s a time to pray and a time to move.” There was no doubt that God wanted to re-dig the generational wells of healing in Spokane. On July 22, 1999 Healing Rooms Ministries of Spokane, Washington were opened. As the Director of Healing Rooms Ministries and the International Association of Healing Rooms, Cal now travels worldwide to teach about the Kingdom of God.

    Jim White along with his wife Dianne, are Regional Directors for the International Association of Healing Rooms in Region 2. Jim believes that God is merging both corporate and ministry leaders together to finance the gathering of the greatest harvest of souls ever. The Holy Spirit anoints Jim to both see and prophetically declare the hidden gifts and talents that so many have laid down and are being resurrected for the expansion of the Kingdom of God on earth. With his heart and his humor Jim opens up a realm that allows you to see, hear and participate in two worlds at the same time, releasing an increased anointing for the Kings and Priests of this time.

    Mark and Pam Walker are Associate Directors of the International Association of Healing Rooms, which now has over 950 Healing Rooms around the world in over 46 countries.

    Twenty-seven years ago Mark and Pam started with $35,000 and opened a small furniture store of 2,000 sq. ft. and a dream to support the Gospel to go throughout the world. Today Walker’s Furniture is a chain of furniture stores in Eastern Washington with 135 employees and sales of $32,000,000 annually.

    God has anointed them with revelation and impartation to equip and release His army into the marketplace bringing transformation and the release of finances into the Kingdom of God for His glory.

    Schedule

    Wed., 3/11/09
    6:00-7:00 pm Registration
    7:00-9:00 pm Cal Pierce

    Thu., 3/12/09
    9:00-9:45 am Prayer (Optional)
    10:00-11:00 am Kings and Priests
    11:15 am-12:30 pm Sozo for Business
    12:30-2:00 pm Lunch
    2:00-4:00 pm Tours of Healing Rooms
    7:00-9:00 pm Kingdom Strategies for Increase

    Fri., 3/13/09
    9:00-9:45 am Prayer (Optional)
    10:00-11:00 am Kairos Time
    11:15 am-12:30 pm Intercession for Business
    12:30-2:00 pm Lunch
    2:00-4:00 pm Personal Ministry Time
    7:00-9:00 pm Jim White

    Sat., 3/14/09
    9:00-9:45 am Prayer (Optional)
    10:00-11:00 am Quantum Faith
    11:15 am-12:30 pm Kingdom Strategies for Increase
    12:30-2:00 pm Lunch
    2:00-3:30 pm Life of Passion & Purpose
    7:00-9:00 pm Jim White
    Impartation

    REGISTRATION FEE:
    $50 PER PERSON
    $75 PER COUPLE

    Comment by endtimespropheticwords | January 26, 2009

  40. Comment by anon moved by admin

    Watch the video on Extreme Prophetic, Patricia King, Word for 2009, part 11.

    She states from 1.43 the following… ”… in 2009 God is going to highlight the word and the concept of Kingdom. Jesus said ‘the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand’ and that’s why the people were called to repent, repent from worldly mindsets, repent from religious mindsets so we can start to live a Kingdom life.”

    Repent from wordly mindsets, from religious mindsets??? Jesus was speaking about repenting from SIN!!!!

    Looks like what Cal Pierce is saying: removal of the mind…

    Comment by endtimespropheticwords | January 29, 2009

  41. In love we should give people the benefit of the doubt and look at the context and intent of their words and actions.

    Regarding “removal of our minds”, drawing from Broken’s second post (comment #7), it sounds as if Cal Pierce’s words were meant to have the congregation put on “the mind of Christ” as in 1 Cor 2:16 (NIV). I was also reminded of the verse in Isaish 55:9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.”

    When put into the context of a sermon and viewed alongside related scripture instead of taken in a purely literal sense and viewed with preconceived judgments of heresy, what fault can you find in asking God to replace our thoughts with His?

    Comment by JustMe | July 24, 2009

  42. Again, not having watched the video or even having heard of Patricia King, her statement of repentance from a “religious mindset” seems right in line with Jesus’ opposition to the religious leaders of that day as well as in the Old Testament days.

    From Isaiah 29:13 “The Lord says: ‘These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is made up only of rules taught by men.’ ”

    “I desire mercy, not sacrifice”. Hosea 6:6; Matt. 9:13, 12:7 This statement was first made in Hosea and then repeated by Jesus twice in Matthew. It is the attitude of our hearts not man’s religious efforts that He commends.

    Comment by JustMe | July 24, 2009

  43. JustMe, I might just agree with you… but the way he presented it, he very clearly claimed that the word “renewal” means “removal”. That’s just way off the exegetical mark. However, looking back at what I wrote here, I think I was rather judgmental of Cal based on one sermon, and I repent of it. Though I won’t go there anymore, I can no longer live in a critical spirit. So I would request endtimes to take this post down … but realizing that might not happen I just want to publicly repent of my critical gossiping spirit in this post. I’m truly sorry. God bless you all.

    Comment by Broken | August 15, 2009


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