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Billy Graham Denies The Gospel On Camera

Straight from the horse’s mouth -

Transcript thanks to Jan (thank you)

Robert Schuller  – What do you think is the future of Christianity.

Billy Graham – I think everybody that loves Christ or knows Christ whether they are conscious of it or not – they are members of the Body of Christ and that’s what God is doing today, he’s calling people out of the world for his name whether they come from the Muslim world, the Buddist world or the Christian world or the non-believing world – they are members of the Body of Christ because they have been called by God – they may not even know the name of Jesus but they know in their heart they need something that they don’t have and they turn to the only light that they have and I think that they are saved and they are going to be with us in heaven.

RS – that is so fantastic – I’m so thrilled to hear you say that – there’s a wideness in God’s mercy.

May 21, 2009 - Posted by endtimespropheticwords | Billy Graham, False Prophets, Interfaith and Ecumenical, One World Religion, Robert Schuller | , , , | 69 Comments

69 Comments »

  1. I couldn’t believe it until I heard it come from his own lips!

    Comment by Stephen Milne | May 21, 2009

  2. Schuller: “There is a wideness in God’s Mercy”

    Graham: “There is.”

    Yes, there is a wideness in God’s mercy, fellas, but a narrowness in who will actually pick up the Cross and follow.

    Comment by AriseMyLove | May 21, 2009

  3. I am saddened, and a bit confused. What gospel was he preaching all these years? Why bother? If he believes as this seems to be saying, then why did God send Jesus to be begotten of Mary and the Holy Spirit, to suffer and die in such a painful horrible way?
    Even C S Lewis said, that Jesus did not leave wishy washy type options open, that making the claims He did, in the context He did, He would have to be either Lunatic, Liar, or Lord as He claimed.If Lord, then He said He was the (only) way, truth, & life and that no one comes to His Father but by and through Him. He is the Door.

    Comment by gitardood | May 21, 2009

  4. This clip is extremely disappointing. But, worse that this was a video posted beside this of T.D. Jakes twisting the scripture on Naomi and Ruth, and calling them possible lesbian’s because they were so close. Shame, shame shame on him.Since his own son is a pervert homo.He wants to find others in the bible that he thinks are also. He’s lost it, if he ever had it that is…

    Comment by karen justinn | May 21, 2009

  5. Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

    Sorry Billy, but unless you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus Christ and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead – you aren’t saved.

    Period.

    Comment by Javanut | May 21, 2009

  6. How ironic.

    Schuler says, “There’s a wideness in GOD’s mercy.”

    While I literally just finished reading Matthew 7 where Jesus Christ says

    :13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.”

    Comment by Lavrai | May 21, 2009

  7. Just so so sad! How many are now standing upon Billy Graham’s confession and will find themselves dammned. If you are saved you know it. Sadly stories about Billy Graham have been surfacing for years. There are many religions including Moslems who believe in “a” Jesus. But not “the” Jesus, who can saved to the uttermost. SAD

    Comment by james | May 21, 2009

  8. Transcript needed for those on slow dial up who cannot watch the video

    Comment by 4bobby | May 21, 2009

  9. That just makes me want to cry! It feels like I’m living on a different planet than the one I grew up on. Here comes the tribulation!

    Comment by Zeddy | May 21, 2009

  10. Transcript

    Q – What do you think is the future of Christianity.

    B.G. I think everybody that loves Christ or knows Christ whether they are conscious of it or not – they are members of the Body of Christ and that’s what God is doing today, he’s calling people out of the world for his name whether they come from the Muslim world, the Buddist world or the Christian world or the non-believing world – they are members of the Body of Christ because they have been called by God – they may not even know the name of Jesus but they know in their heart they need something that they don’t have and they turn to the only light that they have and I think that they are saved and they are going to be with us in heaven.

    Q – that is so fantastic – I’m so thrilled to hear you say that – there’s a wideness in God’s mercy

    (well, he’s still got a nice clear speaking voice, I’ll give him that at least)

    Comment by jan(2) | May 21, 2009

  11. And for those old enough to say to themselves – isn’t that an old hymn – yes, here it is – http://scriptureandmusic.com/Music/Text_files/Theres_A_Wideness_In_Gods_Mercy.html

    Comment by jan(2) | May 21, 2009

  12. re: “I think everybody that loves Christ or knows Christ whether they are conscious of it or not – they are members of the Body of Christ ”

    whether they are conscious of it or not
    whether they are conscious of it or not
    whether they are conscious of it or not

    lmao

    But what did you think a freemason/MLK ultra WOULD say?

    Comment by Lawrence Luprypa | May 21, 2009

  13. I only know this, that jesus said that whomever believed and called upon his NAME shall be saved.
    How can you be saved if you don’t know the name? And when God makes himself known to you, you will know his voice. You will know who it is that is speaking to you. HIs sheep know his voice. I recognized who spoke to me at about age 12. I knew it was God.

    Comment by lizd | May 21, 2009

  14. Certainly there were peoples who did not hear of Jesus until missionaries arrived and surely they will be judged according to the light they had. But Muslims did not rise till the 600’s A.D., long after Christ and the gospel. islam arose actually because the church entered into such darkness, but enough light was there for them to judged.

    BG: “they turn to the only light that they have”

    This is the part of his statement that I find damning. If sinners can be saved in any other way OTHER than the cross than Jesus didn’t have to come and die. Paul says it so well in Galatians 2:21 – “If righteousness could be obtained by keeping the law (or being a good person), Christ died needlessly.”

    Comment by BB | May 21, 2009

  15. re Transcript

    I missed out some words in the last line – it should read
    “going to be with us in heaven”.

    Sorry, that’s actually quite significant as it implies an acknowledgement that there is an “us”. Which makes what he says even worse really.

    Comment by jan(2) | May 21, 2009

  16. Thank you, I corrected this.

    Comment by endtimespropheticwords | May 21, 2009

  17. Who are we to judge who The Father chooses or not.

    The Discerner of hearts knows those among us who would not deny him when the time comes.

    Comment by hopesome | May 21, 2009

  18. Ok, then for all of you who are so hardline on God’s Grace & Mercy being only for those who have heard the true Gospel of Jesus Christ, explain how Romans 2 fits in. That seems to be exactly what Billy Graham is talking about &, as Abraham said, ‘Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?’

    Comment by Ian Hutchinson | May 22, 2009

  19. ‘Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?’

    Ian – You are taking the scripture verse out of context! God came down to earth to walk among men to deal with the injustice of Sodom and Gomorrah and He destroyed it with fire from heaven!

    And concerning salvation it doesn’t matter what Billy Graham says or teaches because Jesus already said everybody and I mean everybody was condemned already to hell
    by His words:

    John 3:14 “And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
    3:15 “that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
    3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
    3:17 “For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
    3:18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    Ian you are not saying that Jesus Christ is a liar because the others do not believe in Jesus? And hence are not saved!

    Only those who believe in Jesus and put their total trust in Him are saved no matter what other deceivers say!

    Comment by Brad | May 22, 2009

  20. The gospel of John 6:44(amplified) Jesus says:

    “No one is able to come to Me unless the Father Who sent Me attracts and draws him and gives him the desire to come to Me. and {then] I will raise him up [from the dead] at the last day.”

    This is how I read the above transcript. Twenty seven years ago I attended my first AA meeting and was introduced to a power greater than myself. I figured God just floated around in the sky and was only pleased with people who were well dressed and went to church. My life at that time constituted everthing the Bible says will land you in hell. It was God himself who placed a hunger in me for his Word where I was introduced to His Son. He is all things to me today. By the time I got to church, I found a lot of people who didn’t know Him there. They were more in love with being ‘churchy’ than Jesus. It was the Father who drew me to his Son and if He drew me, a non believing rebellious drunk, He can draw anyone from anywhere to be apart of His Body. All it takes is a brokeness willing to be remade.

    Comment by Canadanorth | May 22, 2009

  21. It isn’t us reaching out for salvation. It’s Him doing a work on the inside of us so that we reach out.

    It’s like your young child riding a bike for the first time. Your hanging on to the seat behind but he thinks he riding on his own. God is the potter, we’re the clay to be fashioned and molded.

    Comment by Canadanorth | May 22, 2009

  22. It isn’t us reaching out for salvation. It’s Him doing a work on the inside of us so that we reach out.

    It’s like your young child riding a bike for the first time. Your hanging on to the seat behind but he thinks he riding on his own. God is the potter, we’re the clay to be fashioned and molded.

    Comment by Canadanorth | May 22, 2009
    ——–
    God has already reached out to His through His Son. It us up to us to put our faith in Him.

    Refer to Jeremiah 18 to see what GOD has to say about the potter and the clay.

    ———————————
    Only those who believe in Jesus and put their total trust in Him are saved no matter what other deceivers say!

    Comment by Brad | May 22, 2009
    —–

    Yes,
    The question is often raised- “what about those who never hear the gospel”.
    Well God has seen those who are open to Him and will make a way for all of them to hear the gospel.

    Refer to Cornelius and the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts. God made a way for both of them to hear the gospel. And I’ve seen similar accounts of people in Moslem countries today recieving the gospel in some very unusual ways.

    Comment by onesimus | May 22, 2009

  23. Billy Graham Freemason

    For decades BG has been the personal chaplain to US Presidents that demonstrates they were never Christians, despite their claims and lip-service to the contrary. The Bushs, Clintons, etc. BG has been shown to be a Freemason and one of the central theosophical pillars of Freemasonry, according to Coil’s and Mackey’s Masonic encyclopedias, along with affirmative statements from 33rd degree freemason Albert Pike is the Kabbalah. When we compare a central doctrine called “Tikkun Olam” or the “repair of the world” to the objectives of a One-World Religion and a New World Order, we see an almost perfect match.

    Graham has finally come out of the closet and admitted the freemason kabbalah/hermetic world-view that a “consciousness of God” regardless of who or what one perceives him/her/it to be is salvific. To orthodox Christians, the Bible is clear about the fact of who Jesus Christ is i.e. God incarnate and what His mission was and remains. The issue here with Graham is that he has been warned countless times for decades about his membership in freemasonry, his acceptance of honorary degrees from Rome, the Billy Graham Association’s refusal to stop sending converts back into the Roman Catholic compounds they came out of, etc. etc.

    What we are now seeing is the final Judgment of Reprobation upon a former well-known Christian Leader who once standing steadfast for the Gospel, has now been given completely over to Universalism and therefore has paved his own road to the Lake of Fire.

    Several years ago, I believe it was Ruth Graham speaking publicly telling “wayward Christians” to return back to their churches and ’submit to church authority’ etc. It is the honor and dignity of Christians to rebel against illegitimate authority, especially against apostate like the 10s of 1000s of leaders today who masquerade as legitimate Christians. Instead, by virtue of selling their Christian birthright by virtue of signing on to the 501(c)3 tax exemption, making God’s Church into a Federal Corporation, and submitting to Freemasons by obeying their contractual obligations and remaining mute about issues historically spoken about from the pulpit regularly, they have become the “dumb dogs that lie down” found in the Bible.

    Isa 56:10:
    His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant [that they sold out the entire nation for their 501(c)3 tax exempt "privileges"], they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark [because they agreed they would not "bark" i.e. preach against homosexuality, freemasonry, Roman Catholocism and many other 'isms like socialism, communism, etc.]; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.

    Hey I know, let’s set up another Benny Hinn crusade, right? Let’s get Dutch Sheets, Kenneth Copeland and C. Peter Wagner to “confess and proclaim” us out of what they themselves got America into, right?

    Just as the Bird and Swine Flu are designer viruses released to cause a pandemic and subsequent control of the world by the New World Order, so Billy Graham has embraced the ancient designer religious world-view of salvation outside of the confines of what Christ came to do. Billy Graham is practicing the SIN OF BALAAM because he is trying to get this CHRISTIAN NATION (and not “Judeo-Christian” either because the real covert meaning to that is Christianized Kabbalah!) to sin by going after another christ, another gospel, and another spirit. When that happens, God steps in and judges America because the real “spiritual covering” (and not the Latter Rain “apostles and prophets”) has been breached.

    Billy Graham and the Billy Graham association are now enemies of the cross!!!

    Rebellion to tyranny is obedience to God and Billy Graham, by virtue of his blatant and international denial of Christ is spiritual tyranny.

    References for further study:
    Pike, Morals and Dogma
    http://www.sacred-texts.com/mas/md/index.htm

    Universalism: The Great Leveling Factor
    http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/2002/carl-teichrib/universalism.htm

    IRS seizes church for failing to pay taxes
    http://www.michigandaily.com/content/irs-seizes-church-failing-pay-taxes

    President Obama Surrenders American Financial Institutions Over to the European Union [I don’t hear America’s pastors talk about this on Sunday morning because of their 501(c)3 gag order!)
    http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Editorial-Page.htm?Info=0053134
    http://www.apfn.org/apfn/CHURCH.HTM

    Revisiting Romans 13
    http://unregisteredbaptistfellowship.com/docs/042201romans.php

    State Churches Through Incorporation and Taxation
    http://unregisteredbaptistfellowship.com/docs/030501state.php

    VICTORY DECLARATION
    http://unregisteredbaptistfellowship.com/victory.php

    100 Pastors Vow to Defy IRS – Faith or Folly?
    http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Editorial-Page.htm?Info=0036118

    “Thirty Ways That the IRS Tries to Control Pastors and Churches: Do you know that the IRS keeps files on every preacher in America who is quoted in the news on political issues?”
    https://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Print-Page.htm?EdNo=001&Info=0025208

    Comment by NOLR History | May 22, 2009

  24. BB.
    This is the part of his statement that I find damning. If sinners can be saved in any other way OTHER than the cross than Jesus didn’t have to come and die. Paul says it so well in Galatians 2:21 – “If righteousness could be obtained by keeping the law (or being a good person), Christ died needlessly.”

    Your several rigid comments here, and elsewhere do not to me seem to reflect the heart of God.
    Whilst an alarm bell rings loud with BG talking about who is in the Body of Christ and loving Christ without knowing it, he said:
    “they may not even know the name of Jesus but they know in their heart they need SOMETHING THEY DON’T HAVE and they turn to the only light that they have and I think that they are saved and they are going to be with us in heaven.

    If someone has the awareness and desire that they need an external saviour and their own actions and efforts ( whatever religion or not they are culturally associated with) are not sufficient to be put right with God then can we trust that God through the mediation of Christ has made provision for them. Similar as many would believe that a baby who has not willfully rebelled is redeemed by the finished work of Christ.
    I am not saying there is another way to be saved apart from trust in what God had provided through the cross but many like those in ancient times (Job, Patriarchs, trusting Israelites and even gentiles who had the same faith) exercised saving faith in trusting that God would provide what they could not do for themselves. None of these called on a specific name or understood clearly about the death, burial and ressurection of Jesus of Nazareth but will rise with us in the Kingdom of God.
    No one is promoting salvation by works.

    “Only those who believe in Jesus and put their total trust in Him”
    Do you have TOTAL (perfect and undefiled) trust in Him? What if they trust in his real name Yashua, or Arabic Issa etc.?
    Whilst we should all be concerned about the direction Billy Graham has been moving over the years there is still room for open views on who will find themselves in the redeeemed as debates in mission circles particularly show a breadth of non dogmatic opinion.

    Comment by Vic | May 22, 2009

  25. 1. “his real name Yashua.”

    says who? you? where is that in the NT? Since the whole NT was written to non-hebes (except James. Hebrews (authored by Apollos) was not adressed to any group, but it is to the Hebrews or those who knew the Greek OT).
    Jesus said His name to John:
    In Reveal-ation
    1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to Him, to show to His servants things which must shortly come to pass; and He sent and signified it by his angel to his servant John:
    1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

    Who? “Jesus the christos.” “Jesus the anointed/messiah.”
    19:10 “The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

    Of who? Of “Jesus” that’s who.

    22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify to you these things in the churches.”

    I who? I, “Jesus.” Jesus knows His own name. In Greek it is almost the same as in English, and the NT was written in Greek, not Aramaic. Jesus spoke Greek to John, and Jesus is the One who created Greek and all languages.

    That “sacred name” stuff is elitist. It’s not “Yeshua” anyways – it’s iYah-sha: iYahu-saves. Or in greek, “iYah-sous” … or in English: Jesus. lol

    1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, says the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
    1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last.
    22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.”

    NB: He said He is the A and W or aka A-Z. In the Greek, not Hebrew.

    —————–

    2. “debates in mission circles particularly show a breadth of non dogmatic opinion.”

    Ya, we can’t have NT dogmatism. Man’s “opinion” means dick-all anyways!
    John 3:16 means what it says.

    So does John 3:36: He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him.”

    ————-

    what is happening is that seminaries produce missiologists.
    The profs are ivory tower higher critics of the Word and teach heresy as being theology.

    Just as Paul prophesied.

    In Timothy
    4:1 Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.

    3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
    3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

    Comment by Lawrence | May 22, 2009

  26. Brad, I’m not out of context when mentioning that God is always doing right; that is the principle behind Abraham’s inspired statement. God is love & he desires that none shall be lost. Paul (who is no more a liar in the Letter to the Romans than Jesus is in His statements) give a very clear account of what God’s dealings are with those who haven’t heard about Jesus in Romans 2. We CANNOT take verses, even those spoken by Jesus, out of the context of the whole of Scripture & use them to support a doctrine. If God is Love, desiring that none shall be lost, it is only to be expected that He will have provision for those who have never heard of Jesus; hence we have an insight into that provision in Romans 2.

    Comment by Ian Hutchinson | May 22, 2009

  27. Laurence,
    “Since the whole NT was written to non-hebes (except James. Hebrews (authored by Apollos) was not adressed to any group, but it is to the Hebrews or those who knew the Greek OT)”
    Really!. Ever read chunks of Romans or Intro to 1 Peter? I thought the foundations of most if not all the churches Jews.
    Increasing evidence that some books were originally penned in Hebrew then translated to Greek.
    Bit dognatic re Apollos don’t you think?
    Torah observant jews in Gallilee did not give greek names to their children (Jesus is not even a greek name but an attempt too transliterate his hebrew name)
    Shimon, Jehudah, Yaakov and Yashua (or Yahoshua, sometimes Yeshua)were Mary’s sons. We have anglicised them.
    My comments were not ‘elitest’ just cautioning against the dogmatism you show here and on virtually every thread you comment on.
    Saying the right words or name does not save, appealing to God from the heart for undeserved mercy in as much light as we currently have is the starting point.
    Jesus, the man has been given, inherited a name above all names, his new name given by the father and very likely the new name we shall inherit if we overcome, the Fathers name written on our foreheads (no I am not into tatoos in case you jump on me for that too). The name above all names is not Jesus, Yashuah or whatever as this was one of the top 3 names for boys at the time. The name is the authority and position and reality of what he represents delegated by Father to this one particular Jesus of Nazareth.
    At the name of…. What is the name of Laurence’s. Is it Laurence?
    Why not lighten up a bit, people will not then switch off from what you have to say and any valid points you nay bring.

    Comment by Vic | May 22, 2009

  28. Ian You are using your logic to read into scriptures what is not there when Jesus words do not change – JN 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

    I have a friend of friend who is Iranian and was a Moslem living in Iran and Jesus appeared to her in a dream and revealed Himself to her. She became a Christian and left Iran where she would be killed by her husband who is a Jihad.

    And since God is no respecter of persons and shows partiality to no one if anybody truly wants to be saved Jesus Christ will appear to him or her like He appeared to my friend, otherwise they are condemned already to hell!

    Comment by Brad | May 22, 2009

  29. That’s interesting – i personally would like more of the interview, he may have gone on to clearly define what he meant when he said there was a wideness in God’s mercy. Such short clips have the potential to mislead.

    I think everybody that loves Christ or knows Christ whether they are conscious of it or not – they are members of the Body of Christ

    [i]The sticking point is ‘conscious of it or not’ – i think he’s maybe referring to the people who have never heard of Jesus but ‘know there is something more’.[i/]

    and that’s what God is doing today, he’s calling people out of the world for his name whether they come from the Muslim world, the Buddist world or the Christian world or the non-believing world

    [i]True, if they have been ‘called out’ of all these worlds. As you and i have.[/i]
    – they are members of the Body of Christ because they have been called by God – they may not even know the name of Jesus but they know in their heart they need something that they don’t have

    [i]Talking about those who have never heard the name of Jesus, but know that they need something that their current religion or belief system does not offer.[/i]

    and they turn to the only light that they have

    [i]I don’t think he means their current religion here based on what he has previously heard. Rather that what little light has been shown to them they cling on to. For example, praying to God, however universal that may sound, if they know that the Muslim God is not true, they will pray sincerely to God – the one who hears.[/i]

    and I think that they are saved and they are going to be with us in heaven.

    [i] I believe that if no-one goes to tell them the gospel then they will be saved, according to the light that they had. I do believe that God will make provision for them and have someone come to tell them about Jesus, but not everyone called goes – therefore the lesson is for us to make the most of every opportunity because we do not know what work the Holy Spirit has been undertaking in that person’s life before we came. It is one of the reasons why i believe God says that the time is ripe for the harvest, but then goes on to say, but the labourers are so few…[/i]

    Personally from this short clip I don’t believe that you could conclude that Billy Graham is ‘preaching’ a false gospel.

    God’s mercy is wide – if we take it in context that people from many different backgrounds can be saved by God without hearing about Jesus. That is what i think BG is saying as Ian has commented on. It’s what Paul taught in Romans 2.

    Comment by DH | May 24, 2009

  30. DH – How do you handle Psalm 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell? OR JN 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me?

    You are not saying that some wicked are going to heaven and are not going through Jesus there by making God’s word to be a lie?

    Comment by Brad | May 24, 2009

  31. Brad, it’s starting to sound as if you only accept the 4 gospels as being inspired in the NT. Twice now I have pointed out that Romans 2 presents a VERY clear account of how our loving God will handle those who have never received either the Law the Gospel. In your terminology, how do YOU handle Romans 2? If you accept it as part of God’s inspired Word, you must explain how Paul is not actually meaning what the words say if you wish to say that a personal commitment to Jesus is the only way back to Father. Your stance must also exclude all who died before the Incarnation. The OT Law brought knowledge of man’s sinfulness, but it was FAITH in the Temple sacrifices that brought salvation, not the sacrifices themselves. The NT sacrifice of the cross finalised & brought to an end the Temple sacrifices, but it is again FAITH in the cross & resurrection that brings NT salvation. Romans 2 tells us how God deals with those who have never had the benefit of either. I really don’t see how Paul could have made it any clearer!
    I really don’t find the aggressive & manipulative wording of your posts helpful e.g. ‘You are not saying that some wicked are going to heaven and are not going through Jesus there by making God’s word to be a lie?’ None of us are saying we are making God’s Word to be a lie, but we ARE saying that the Bible MUST be taken as a whole & proof-texting belongs more to the cults than true believers.
    I rejoice that God’s mercy is far wider than any of us would probably want and that he HAS provided a way for those who have never heard of Jesus. God is love—full stop.

    Comment by Ian Hutchinson | May 24, 2009

  32. Brad, it’s starting to sound as if you only accept the 4 gospels as being inspired in the NT.

    IAN – PAUL IS NOT THE AUTHOR OR FOUNDER OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH BUT JESUS CHRIST IS AND HE IS GOD WHILE PAUL IS NOT?

    You don’t have a scripture verse to back up your statement besides your own opinion that I rejoice that God’s mercy is far wider than any of us would probably want and that he HAS provided a way for those who have never heard of Jesus. God is love—full stop?

    But Jesus words are unchanged JN 14:6 J “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

    For the sake of argument let’s assume all of Paul writing are totally inspired and relevant today as stated by you?

    So how come so called bible believing Christians reject the following verses as applicable today including speaking in tongues and women being silent in churches if the word of God cannot be added or changed and is complete?

    1 Corinthians 14:13 Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.
    14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.
    14:15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.
    14:16 Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say?
    14:17 For you indeed give thanks well, but the other is not edified.
    14:18 I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all;
    14:19 yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.
    14:20 Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature.
    14:21 In the law it is written:

    “With men of other tongues and other lips
    I will speak to this people;
    And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me,”
    says the Lord.
    14:22 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe.
    14:23 Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind?
    14:24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an uninformed person comes in, he is convinced by all, he is convicted by all.
    14:25 And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed; and so, falling down on his face, he will worship God and report that God is truly among you.
    14:26 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.
    14:27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret.
    14:28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.
    14:29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge.
    14:30 But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent.
    14:31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged.
    14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
    14:33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.
    14:34 Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says.
    14:35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.
    14:36 Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached?
    14:37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.
    14:38 But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant.
    14:39 Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues.
    14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

    AND OF COURSE BILLY GRAHAM DOESN’T BELIEVE IN SPEAKING IN TONGUES OR WOMEN BEING SILENT IN THE CHURCH EVEN THOUGH PAUL SAID THESE ARE THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD?

    You cannot have your cake and eat it here?

    Comment by Brad | May 24, 2009

  33. Quote from your post Brad:
    ‘For the sake of argument let’s assume all of Paul writing are totally inspired and relevant today as stated by you?’
    It appears then that you do not accept the Letter to the Romans as inspired as you refuse to explain Romans 2 & how it fits in with God’s plan. This is now becoming an unpleasant & unprofitable discussion, so, sadly, I must wish you God’s blessing & depart from it.

    Comment by Ian Hutchinson | May 25, 2009

  34. AND OF COURSE BILLY GRAHAM DOESN’T BELIEVE IN SPEAKING IN TONGUES OR WOMEN BEING SILENT IN THE CHURCH EVEN THOUGH PAUL SAID THESE ARE THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD?

    IAN That was a very dishonest approach running away from an argument you cannot win? Shame on you!

    I took your logic and threw the ball into your court and you couldn’t handle it and ran away!

    Comment by Brad | May 25, 2009

  35. Brad – are you Walter Kumbelow?

    Comment by endtimespropheticwords | May 25, 2009

  36. Miriam, I think it’s Walter Kambulow that you may mean. May be right there.

    Blessings,

    Ian

    Comment by Ian Hutchinson | May 25, 2009

  37. The gospel of John 6:44(amplified) Jesus says:

    “No one is able to come to Me unless the Father Who sent Me attracts and draws him and gives him the desire to come to Me. and {then] I will raise him up [from the dead] at the last day.”

    Comment by Canadanorth | May 26, 2009

  38. Bless you for caring enough about Christ Yeshua, Christ Jesus, to spot the lie in Billy Graham’s promise that even those who don’t enter through the true Gate or Way (Christ) will somehow find themselves in heaven.

    I also prefer the form of the name Yeshua or Yashua, but I love the form of the name Jesus equally well. It’s just that when Pilate wrote that sign, he made the Jewish leaders so mad because it spelled out “Yahweh”. It was GOD they hung on that cross!

    Billy had me fooled; for some time I thought he was really genuine.

    I don’t mean to throw a wrench into the works (discussion), but I am one of those Prophets of HaShem (G0D) that all of you have been speaking about.

    My name if Michael, and if any of you can accept it, I am spoken about in Daniel. I have come at the time of the End to stand up and speak for the people of Israel.

    I’m really not joking (Although there have been times when I really wanted to be ANYONE else!).

    I have just begun my web site: http://www.WalksInTheLight.com; there is a link to my new blog Walks. The Holy Spirit will testify about me in your hearts. I am the joyful servant of Christ Yeshua (Jesus). And I have come to serve all of you who trust in the Lord!

    By faith in Christ Yeshua.

    Peace in Yeshua,

    Michael

    Comment by Michael Frderick | May 26, 2009

  39. I’m just curious because it seems like there is something negative said about every major Christian evangelical, revivalist, or whatever you want to call them. Bentley messed up. Bickle was associated with Latter Rain (whatever that is/was). Benny Hinn is apparently a fraud and farts on stage. Joyce Meyer and Creflo Dollar are under investigation. I’m going to be done with a degree in philosophy in two semesters and I’ve got to try and decide what Bible school I want to attend. Is there anybody… anybody that can be trusted? Should I just give up and go to Joe’s Alabama Bible-Belt-Thumpin’ Butt-Stompin’ College? I mean, I believe that Satan is probably a lot more interested in attacking these people that are known world-wide and destroying their reputations than mine, but what is it with these people? Why do they all mess up like this? brock_wyant@yahoo.com is the e-mail. Feel free to e-mail a response or post one. Sorry for going slightly off topic.

    Comment by Brock Wyant | May 26, 2009

  40. Brock has a good point about most high profile evangelists; can any of them be trusted? Why do they all mess up?

    G_d didn’t send them.

    We only KNOW this when we eat His body (the Word) and drink His blood (the Life giving Bread, Living Water of the Holy Spirit flowing beneath and within the literal body of Scripture). Do it; eat His body (the Word) and drink His blood (of the Holy Spirit) every day.

    Sit in receptive stillness before the greatest being in the universe (the Lord) each day. Then you will gain the ability to see through the false messages of the false prophets.

    If Christ’s Word lives in us and we live in the Word, then HaShem (G_d) promises we will know the Truth (Christ Jesus) and the Truth will set us free.

    HaShem (G_d) equips His true prophets with at least one aspect of their teaching that reflects and magnifies the Truth found completely only in Christ. I’m not claiming any of the OT prophets were perfectly Christ like.

    But the Holy Spirit equips each genuine prophet with Truth and a message for their time that has a depth and a quality of truth the others don’t. It is up to each one of us to eat His body and drink His blood to rightly discern.

    Peace in Christ,

    Michael

    Comment by Michael Frderick | May 31, 2009

  41. I think Michael may have slightly misunderstood my concern. To be honest, it’s really kind of a selfish one. I asked the question because I have a deep interest in revival and I intend to go on to a Bible college or seminary after I finish my degree. Obviously though, I don’t want to go somewhere that false teachings are being spouted out or the leader is deep in sin. I’ve got enough issues with sin in my own life. I don’t need someone else who is supposed to be leading me to greater understanding and wisdom messing me up any farther.

    That being said, I went to Lakeland for the revival and I was amazed with what God accomplished in that city. I’m just concerned that so many of our more well-known pastors and evangelists end up in the same perdicament. Like I said, there’s obviously the explanation that Satan would be very interested in attacking these people. But, I also feel like that is letting these people off the hook way too easily. On the other hand, I’m a big proponent of interceding for these people rather than criticizing. I’m not the guy that’s standing on the stage with 10,000 eyes looking at me to lead a revival. I can’t even imagine that pressure. We’ve all said things that we regret. I think we ought to show a little more love and understanding of mistakes rather than the all-out bashing that Christians usually dispense on those who have fallen……. Anyway, I could ramble and beat around the bush for paragraphs on end, but I’ll leave it at that for now.

    Comment by Brock Wyant | June 3, 2009

  42. I think we ought to show a little more love and understanding of mistakes rather than the all-out bashing that Christians usually dispense on those who have fallen…

    Todd Bentley, the criminally convicted homosexual pedophile turned drunken heretic and adulterer who kicked old ladies in the face and stomach on YouTube at the failed Lakeland, Florida counterfeit revival has entered into a biblically adulterous re- marriage while under a “process of restoration” led by biblically proven false prophet Rick Joyner.

    Bentley was ring master at a debacle of lunacy and false healing debunked on national TV orchestrated by the infamous Strader family, whom the District Attorney implicated in financial scandals defrauding elderly Christians of millions of dollars. While the Florida District Attorney publicly names Pastor Steve Strader as complicit in the swindling, his brother was sent to prison for over 30 years as a professional gangster under American anti racketeering RICO statutes. Bob Jones was debunked as a sexual predator with vulnerable women while Paul Cain was publicly disclosed to be a drunken pervert with a life long history of alcoholism and homosexuality. (Jacob Prasch)

    John Arnott wrote to Todd Bentley, April 2008: (source The Elijah list) “Todd, you need to keep going in these meetings as long as the Lord is moving. I feel that this is a prophetic sign that another wave of revival is coming to North America. If you remember, the laughing revival was released in Lakeland via Rodney Howard Browne. Randy Clark went to one of Rodney’s meetings in November 2003 in Tulsa, and came to Toronto in January of 2004, and it all broke out here. So, the meetings starting again in Lakeland could mean that revival gets another fresh start all over the world! “ John Arnott, Founding Pastor, Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship

    Brock – Todd Bentley the liar, the adulterer, the wizard, the hypocrite, the heretic and the thief who had a mistress before the revival and was drunk during the revival didn’t fall but was a false apostle, deceitful worker, who transformed himself into apostle of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. The proof was that Jessa is woman number 4 that Todd has cheated on Shonnah with http://theconnexion.net/wp/?p=5122

    During the highet of revival there was excessive drinking, slasher flicks, and other things I wont get into now with Todd and his inner circle (yes men). There was infighting with the leaders on stage, and the interns where just slaves with ministry badges. Or the fact that all the money collected for the orphans and for sudan never made it to them, it was instead used to pay for the buildings/land for the revival.

    SO BROCK WAKE UP AND SMELL THE ROSES THIS SO CALLED REVIVAL WAS NEVER OF GOD BECAUSE TODD WAS NEVER A MAN OF GOD AND NEITHER WERE ANY OF THE FALSE APOSTLES ON STAGE WHO SUPPORTED HIM INCLUDING JOHN ARNOTT

    In 2009 after the revival failed and Todd Bentley divorced his wife, Rick Joyner led the restoration team which included leaders who had vouched for Bentley’s good character in the past even as he was deceiving us all, and has posted a letter on his web page. We are informed that ‘Even so, they are married now and are resolved to make the most of their marriage, their lives, and to continue to serve the Lord in the best way that they can. ‘

    Their being married far from making it right has in my view made matters even worse and totally disqualified Todd Bentley from any reinstatement in ministry in the foreseeable future. It means there is no repentance. He has simply gone into outright rebellion by marrying his mistress. Even if his wife had chosen to divorce him, which does not seem to be the case, a more judicious, moral and righteous course of action would have been to break off this adulterous relationship and stay celibate before God Instead, he remarries quickly. And we are put before the fait accompli. Is there a recent translation of the New Testament that decrees that the solution to adultery is to quickly divorce the offended party and marry the mistress? ( Pastor Bola Olivia Ogedengbe, ABBA HOUSE church, Paris) http://bolaoged.com/?p=743

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/15902535/THIRD-WAVE-EXPOSED

    Comment by BRAD | June 3, 2009

  43. That was a horrible video. Especially in terms of quality. Seems like a pathetic patch-job. And according to the following link, it appears that there are parts missing….

    http://vintagechristianity.org/2007/07/24/billy-graham-denies-the-gospel/

    Interview with Robert Schuller from May 31, 1997:

    Dr. Schuller: “Tell me, what is the future of Christianity?”

    Dr. Graham: “Well, Christianity and being a true believer, you know, I think there’s the body of Christ which comes from all the Christian groups around the world, or outside the Christian groups. I think that everybody that loves Christ or knows Christ, whether they’re conscious of it or not, they’re members of the body of Christ. And I don’t think that we’re going to see a great sweeping revival that will turn the whole world to Christ at any time.”

    “What God is doing today is calling people out of the world for His name. Whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world, or the non-believing world, they are members of the body of Christ because they’ve been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus, but they know in their hearts they need something that they don’t have and they turn to the only light they have and I think they’re saved and they’re going to be with us in heaven.”

    Did you hear that? According to Billy Graham, God is calling people out of the world for himself and not necessarily bringing them to Christ. Jews, Muslims, Buddists, as well as other non-believers are “going to be with us in heaven” even though they do not “know the name of Jesus.” Should we still respect Dr. Graham?

    Dr. Schuller: “What I hear you saying is that it’s possible for Jesus Christ to come into a human heart and soul and life even if they’ve been born in darkness and have never had exposure to the Bible. Is that a correct interpretation of what you’re saying?”

    Dr. Graham: “Yes it is because I believe that. I’ve met people in various parts of the world in tribal situations that they have never seen a Bible or heard about a Bible, have never heard of Jesus but they’ve believed in their hearts that there is a God and they tried to live a life that was quite apart from the surrounding community in which they lived.”

    Dr. Schuller: “This is fantastic. I’m so thrilled to hear you say that. There’s a wideness in God’s mercy.

    Dr. Graham: There is. There definitely is.”

    Below is a talk by Billy Graham in 1998. It didn’t sound like a deceiving Gospel to me. What do you think?

    http://www.ted.com/talks/billy_graham_on_technology_faith_and_suffering.html

    Comment by Daniel | June 3, 2009

  44. I’m not making excuses for these false shepherds (just the opposite), and they don’t have my sympathy. They are leading people away from G_d.

    If there were a true messenger from G_d living in this day, don’t you think he (or she) might want, like Jonah, to run for all the fakery) the other way rather than stand up and speak?

    Would any of YOU want to stand up and speak to this generation?

    Comment by Michael Frderick | June 4, 2009

  45. hi i feel deeply in my heart billy graham
    is actually stateing a truth,is lords hand to short it
    cant save muslims buddists mormons church members,
    jesus is able to save anyone anytime anywhere.
    billy graham has preached the gospel for many years
    hes a awsome man,devoted loveing man of God,hope this site doesnt become lets crucify anyone who doesnt think like we all do.lets love rather than be judges.

    Comment by wendy taumata | June 5, 2009

  46. hi everyone,jesus said let wheat and tares grow together
    and he will decide who is truelly his,
    folks stop guessing who belongs to jesus.
    and really we should worship jesus and stop worshiping people dont u think?

    Comment by wendy taumata | June 5, 2009

  47. I wonder if there is more to this interview than is on that youtube. What he said does not match up to what he has preached or what his son has taken up the torch and preached. I have to wander if he goes on to say but they must all hear the gospel and must all turn and believe in Jesus. At least I pray that is what follows. I know not everything gets on youtube. I pray I am right on this. I will be praying for Billy Graham and for the Crystal Cathedral man, sorry never can remember his name and too upset to go and view again.

    It just doesn’t feel right. I will believe the best until God proves otherwise.

    Comment by gloryofthehope | June 6, 2009

  48. A Christian I once knew said to me that she wished she had not preached the Gospel to a friend of hers as the friend rejected the message. Her reasoning was based on her undstanding that when her friend dies, the judgement for rejecting the Gospel would be greater than the judgment for living by the light her friend had prior to hearing and rejecting the Gospel. No prizes for guessing who is behind that kind of thinking.

    Read an interesting quote elsewhere on the net, perhaps relevant to this post: “People are not lost because they have not heard. They are lost because they are sinners. We die because of disease, not because of ignorance of the proper cure”.

    I suggested to the Christian who was deceived to carry on telling people the Good News and to trust that God was more than able to confirm the message by His Spirit in His timing.

    Comment by David Green | July 2, 2009

  49. This didn’t suprise me at all. Billy Graham is a 33rd degree Mason. He was placed. Evangelists are typically not invited to enter into the Masonic Temple by the White house. Billy Graham spent time there with the Presidents. Look on line in searches on Billy Graham and you will see some things that will shock you more than this video. Also, get to a site that shows who are members of the Masons, and what levels they are. Billy Graham is on that list. The 33rd degree is the highest.

    Comment by nlouise | July 4, 2009

  50. pEOPLE,

    YOU interpret like the pharisees, Jesus “I shall destroy this temple in rebuild it in three days”, what would you blog that,,,open your eyes,,and your waxed cold hearts, he;s talking (billy graham) about those God calls out of their religion for conversion,,,,,,” I stand at the door and knock,,,” “many are called few are chosen,,,,” how is he denying the gospel…. u all will be accountable for slandering a brother..

    Comment by CHRIS | July 6, 2009

  51. When I tell people of God’s plan of salvation for mankind I am occasionally met with anger when talking specifically of His mercy – “I want nothing to do with a God who forgives child molesters, rapists, murderers etc but consigns me to hell for the crime of being an unbeliever”. This is precisely the mindset I possessed prior to responding to God’s call.

    I also used to make a point of questioning Christians over what would become of the blind, deaf and mute child in some undiscovered tribe not reachable by preachers. Not one of them brought me back to my need for a Saviour – I would be met with half-baked answers that gave me further opportunity to ask even more difficult to answer questions (with the intention of taking the heat off myself).

    My point is this – those on the run from God will deflect from their own need for Jesus using whatever means possible; and that includes asking questions that pertain to other people and scenarios not relevant to themselves. The temptation I have given into in the past (pride based) is the giving of answers to difficult questions when not being 100% sure of those answers myself so as to make my witness more credible. God could never bless such a witness as that.

    Someone I was witnessing to last week tried to sidestep the issue of falling short of the glory of God, thinking that his being a good Muslim would be good enough for him to one day enter heaven even if he was to find out too late (ie after death) he had been following the wrong god. The Holy Spirit was dogmatic in having me speak the truth that could save him – there was no concession or compromise whatsoever concerning what God wanted this man to hear.

    Having watched the Billy Graham clip, I would say at best he has attempted to answer a theological question he is not 100% sure about. If he did have complete conviction I would be surprised, especially given the clumsy ‘body of Christ’ comment.

    Comment by David Green | July 8, 2009

  52. Hi, this video really bothers me as the video and the audio are not in sync. do you know where and when this is broadcast as i would like to see the proper thing? It makes it look like it’s dubbed here…

    Comment by esther | July 8, 2009

  53. Here’s a bit more on Graham:
    http://enjoyingthejourney.blogspot.com/2007/11/billy-graham-is-33-degree-freemason-and.html

    May the Truth be revealed, may the lies be exposed, may the deceived wakeup, may the sinner repent, may the lost get saved and may the Lord Jesus Christ be glorified I pray!

    Comment by Cathy | July 21, 2009

  54. The doctrine of Devils.

    Comment by Beverly Cotton | October 1, 2009

  55. This is really scary. I respect Billy Graham and I just bought some of his sermon tapes. This is unbelievable. There is no way to the father except through our Lord Jesus Christ.

    He took the wrath of God in our place.

    I think what brother Billy Graham to mention is that there needs to be repentance before faith.

    1) Regeneration – This must come first. This is God’s doing not man. Men are dead and they need life and only God can turn a dead bone to life.
    2) Faith – (This is also God’s doing not by man. Faith through Christ alone – Sola Fide)
    3) Justification – Justify by the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ. We have righteousness of Christ. Not our own Righteousness. Our own righteousness is as filthy rags without Christ (The Book of Isaiah talks about this)
    4) Sanctification – Growing in holiness. If we are truly in Christ, there will be an evidence of repentance. We continue to love what Christ loves and hates what Christ hates and love to be obedient to His words.
    5)Glorification – This is the final stage which will happens when we are with Christ.

    Brothers and sisters in Christ, please pray for Billy Graham.

    Please Google brother “Paul washer shocking sermon”.

    Also visit http://www.SermonTube.Org.

    I am saddened to read this, I also believe we need to continue to pray for one another and build each other up. We are in this world, we are not of this world. We should also not be like the world. We should be holy because our Lord Jesus commanded us to be. Holiness means in its original form to be “Separate”. We need to be different from the world. We should also not run away from the world. We are commanded to share the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ with the world.

    May the Lord bless the true seekers of Him. In closing I leave you with these passages. The Lord has blessed me with them:
    Jeremiah 32:40 – 40″I will make an (everlasting covenant with them that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; and I will put the fear of Me in their hearts so that they will not turn away from Me.

    Jeremiah 9:23-25 – Thus says the Lord: “Let not the wise man boast in his wisdom, let not the mighty man boast in his might, let not the rich man boast in his riches, 24 but let him who boasts boast in this, that he understands and knows me, that I am the Lord who practices steadfast love, justice, and righteousness in the earth. For in these things I delight, declares the Lord.”

    Isa 66:1-2 – 1Thus says the LORD,
    “Heaven is My throne and the earth is My footstool
    Where then is a house you could build for Me?
    And where is a place that I may rest?
    2″For My hand made all these things,
    Thus all these things came into being,” declares the LORD “But to this one I will look,
    To him who is humble and contrite of spirit, and who trembles at My word.

    Comment by Sola Mustapha | November 6, 2009

  56. Wow. I didn’t realize Christians could be so bigoted. Truly, if you do not comprehend what he is saying here, you are spiritually immature. The Holy Spirit knows no

    geographical boundaries
    ethnic struggles
    bigotry
    inequalities
    physical limitations
    or religious constraints

    God’s mercy is ever present and only the True Just God can discern a man’s heart. “Seek and ye shall find.” said Jesus.

    Are we so arrogant to think this statement is only for those who have a Bible in front of them?

    If this is true then my conversion from Islam to Christianity is false and I should quickly deny Christ (which I will NOT do). What do you think lead me to Christ, the devil? The Holy Spirit lead me!!!!!

    Shame on you for denying the works of the Holy Spirit and our Loving Father who leads all whom he chooses to Christ! All they need do is call upon the God of Abraham and they can and will be lead to Christ! Maybe some of you people need to stop ‘believing’ long enough to GET OUT OF HIS WAY so he can do the work!

    Comment by bonbon | November 19, 2009

  57. Billy Gray-Ham dances with wolves

    Comment by laws | November 19, 2009

  58. bonbon should read what Jesus said.

    In Matthew 7
    13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.”

    In John 3
    16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
    18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
    19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.”

    read the Bible and stop throwing stones just bc YOU are ignorant. Maybe still have some islam demons hangin’ around?
    Rebuke them in Jesus’ name!

    James 4:7 “Resist the devil and he will flee from you.”

    Don’t forget that an ANGEL gave Islam to the Arabs, who then murdered Christians by the millions. It was a satan angel. That is why Muslims go to hell, bc they are fooled by the devil.
    Mormonism was also given by a satan angel – and millions of Mormons think they are saved from hell too.

    Comment by laws | November 19, 2009

  59. Hi bonbon,
    God certainly saves from all religions,regions and backgrounds. But faith comes by the word. No preaching of the true gospel ,no salvation. Unfortunately Billy has been relating to the wrong people and wrong groups for a long time. Gods word tells us to avoid unholy alliances and too many Christians are ignoring these divine commands;including many “christian ” leaders.

    Comment by Glenn Christopherson | November 20, 2009

  60. Bonbon, thanks for your gracious contribution to this thread in which you show a far greater understanding of the grace, mercy &, above all, love of the Lord Jesus Christ than many who claim the Name of Jesus. If you look further back in this thread to my entries 18, 26 & 31 and the responses I got to my pointing out that Romans 2 shows us how God deals with those who don’t have the benefit of the Bible or its preaching, you will see some very hard-line attitudes. Jesus is The Way but graciously God deals with those who have never heard of Jesus as described in Romans 2. God is not willing that ANY should perish, but that truth seems to offend many who claim the Name of Jesus.

    Bonbon, rejoice in your new life in Jesus!

    Blessings,

    Ian

    Comment by Ian Hutchinson | November 20, 2009

  61. Amen Bonbon and Ian! The danger is becoming “super-spiritual” – God transcends all our earthly efforts – He is GOD ALMIGHTY, after all.

    Comment by sarah | November 20, 2009

  62. How it breaks my heart to read the comments of my brother and sister and their ignorance of what the gospel is and what it accomplishes for wretched sinners who are lost and heading to a Christless eternity. (That includes all of us unles we have been forgiven by Jesus through His gospel) Please note only those in the Ark in Noah’s time were saved ;only Lot and his family were saved from yhe destuction of Sodom and only those who have heard and believed the call of Jesus Christ will be saved. Jesus said it ;that makes it gospel.

    Comment by Glenn Christopherson | November 20, 2009

  63. I think I’m now giving up hope of the hard-liners on this topic even attempting to explain how Romans 2 fits in with God’s plan of salvation. All that comes across is a sad, harsh attitude that would seek to commit billions of people, including aborted or stillborn babies, to an endless, conscious tormenting punishment. When the love & mercy of God shown in Romans 2 to the Gentile & those without the law or knowledge of Jesus is contrasted to this hard attitude I know which I find more in Jesus. Heb 1 v 1

    Comment by Ian Hutchinson | November 22, 2009

  64. Ian H
    When you have finished reading Romans 2 move on to Ch 3-Ch 16.By your definition God Himself is the “hard liner”.Careful where you go with your line of reasoning.

    Comment by Glenn Christopherson | November 22, 2009

  65. You still haven’t explained how Romans 2 fits with the false teaching that God has no mercy for those who have never heard the Gospel. The hideous distortion of the Bible’s message of love & mercy by Augustine, Calvin etc has no place in the just, merciful &, above all, loving God I see in the Lord Jesus Christ. I was a Calvinist for many years until I realised the monstrous distortion it portrayed of God & His love. God IS love and, sadly, the love I see in Jesus is so rarely displayed by those following that line. Karen who posts here at times is a glowing exception I must add.
    There are many verses of the Bible, chapters even, that can be thrown around to prove our own theologies, but the only valid test of our doctrine must be to put it against the person, teaching & life of the Lord Jesus Christ. If my theology, however well established in church history, is not reflected in the God I see in Jesus, I have got it wrong!
    Be blessed!
    Ian

    Comment by Ian Hutchinson | November 22, 2009

  66. Ian
    You have stated your belief that universalism is well attested in church history and it is….It’s been called heresy from the days of the apostles (and before)Sadly you have chozen to create an idol out of your view of love. Bless ya

    Comment by Glenn Christopherson | November 23, 2009

  67. Glenn, I don’t recall ever mentioning or proposing a universalist theology, so I’m not sure where you got that idea from. If, however, God chose to save all ultimately, I would have no problem with that as He is God Almighty Who has saved me through the death & resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ, & if it were His choice to save all, surely that should be cause for rejoicing. Satan would be totally defeated and cast into the Lake of Fire & the universe would be free forever from his lies & accusations.
    To go into the evidence of the Early Church’s beliefs on such things as hell, everlasting punishment, universalism etc is way beyond the scope of this blog, but there is a plethora of evidence that many of the doctrines accepted as absolute truth by modern denominations are, in fact, completely unknown in the early Church writings. Many surfaced with Augustine of Hippo who added a host of pagan ideas to the simple faith taught by the Apostles & early Church Fathers. It would come as a surprise to many, for example, that the doctrine of conscious, everlasting torment is basically unknown in the OT & hell as a place of punishment at all is a post-exilic concept.

    Comment by Ian Hutchinson | November 23, 2009

  68. Hi Ian
    You’re a slippery one.No one rejoices in the biblical doctrine of Hell; although we may rejoice in the fact that Christ has delivered us from it.
    The evidence of the early churches view on Hell and eternal punishment is easily verified with an open Bible, an open heart and a concordance. I ,for one, am not too interested in different denominational views. I’ll just take God’s word over mans.May I humbly suggest you do the same.There is more at stake than you obviously realize

    Comment by Glenn Christopherson | November 23, 2009

  69. @ laws I understand your line of thinking. If I were still living under direct law rather than the Grace of His Blessed Holy Spirit I would still be a Muslim, wouldn’t I?

    As for all rest I do know some. However, genuine humility would imply that it is my job to leave the ‘judgment’ to God and abide in him by having grace, forgiveness and humility. Any time I twist Divine Truths or what the Spirit of Discernment gives me and lash out at another of God’s children I am practicing sorcery. I abhor this behavior for I was so very good at it!!

    In fleshly terms this is called ’spiritual abuse’.

    Think on this: Just what kind of spiritual discernment is it within adherent to Islam that directs them to murder non-believers? Do you really want to dabble in this type of judgement? (I’ve never killed anyone) I know full well the implications of the self-righteous indignation against the sins of others.

    I find it hard to trust in God when I am busy playing God.

    Blessings

    Comment by bonbon | November 24, 2009


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